LEAVE HAROLD FORD ALONE

[Yavin4]

Look in a perfect world, every Dem would be like Russ Feingold, but we don't live in a perfect world. To get power, we have to have some conservative Dems in order to gain majority status in the Congress. Congressional majorities mean blocking right wing judges, investigations, and media access to promote our message.

If bashing Kerry helps Ford in Tenn., then so be it. Let him bash. We need a majority.

[wakeme2008]

1. F__K ford

he could have just kept his mouth shut....

[SammyWinstonJack]

5. !!

:thumbsup:

[Norquist Nemesis]

7. Ding Ding Ding! n/t

[Yavin4]

13. And Let His Opponent Use Kerry's Words Against Him?

That's not smart. The race is too close to call to take that pitch. Ford is no Carlos Beltran.

[wakeme2008]

27. Ford issued a PRESS RELEASE attacking Kerry

FUCK HIM

[Snivi Yllom]

24. F__K Kerry

he could have just kept his mouth shut....

[ljm2002]

66. Kerry could have just kept his mouth shut?

So, you don't want to see Democratic politicians out stumping during the last weeks of an election cycle?

Get a grip. The opposition has this big bullhorn called the "mainstream media", and they have armies of creeps looking for wedge issues and phrases they can take out of context, so they can manufacture outrage at the smallest thing. Meanwhile, Republican politicians and their fellow travelers like Rush Limbaugh continue to make the most outrageous comments, accusing half the population of being in bed with the terrorists -- and never a peep is heard from the media.

Ford should have kept his mouth shut on the topic.

Democrats need to learn one thing: When the campaign is this hot, stick together or fall apart.

[Clark2008]

30. Why?

He was ASKED about it since he was Kerry's campaign chairman in Tennessee.

Is he just supposed to not answer and look stupid?

Or do you not know what you're talking about.

I'm so glad you can't vote here.

[OzarkDem]

2. Support the Dem 2006 candidates

Agree, let's work to defend them and help them win. Worry about John Kerry later.

[Clark2008]

34. I don't think we should worry about him at all...

Not in Tennessee where he had no chance in hell to begin with.

[Beelzebud]

3. The media is covering it nationally, and it makes it appear like Kerry needs to apologize.

Listen to what you're saying: "If bashing Kerry helps Ford in Tenn, then so be it. Let him bash. We need a majority."

So you honestly believe that the path to majority is for some Democratic Cannibalism so you can appease the right wing southern base?

This is how we snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...

[Yavin4]

10. Tenn. Is Not Mass.

That state has a huuuuuge conservative block of voters. Ford has to do what he has to do in order to win.

[Beelzebud]

15. His comments aren't confined to Tennessee.

And he's making it bad for Dems in other states now, by muddying the water.

does Kerry need to apologize or doesn't he? You can't say he doesn't in some states, and does in others. That makes no sense.

[Horse with no Name]

25. So when his handlers that tell him to smear Kerry

tell him to go against choice or go against opposing the war...my guess is that this little lapdog will do their bidding?

[MADem]

4. He did it with Kerry's blessing, FWIW NT

[Stand and Fight]

9. That's my thought as well...

I believe he called Kerry first and they talked -- gasp for the faint of heart here! -- politics. As Tip O'Neil said, "All politics is local." Harold Ford knows that they're going to ask him about this, so why shouldn't he just air the opinion that will allow him to not be painted as a liberal in Tennessee. I truly believe he is the lesser of the two evils, and he will not win in a market that is dominated by Fox News which hasn't even covered Kerry's followup speech.

[mmonk]

11. It doesn't make for a good national strategy.

[Yavin4]

17. Yes, It Does Actually

The national strategy is to let the Dems do what they have to do to get elected in their own individual state.

In order to get majority status in the Congress, you have to make local concessions. Republicans do this all of the time. Specter won Penn. because he's pro-choice.

Getting majority status is the key here. Without it, Bush cannot be stopped on anything.

[mmonk]

20. He can simply say he doesn't agree with Kerry.

[Yavin4]

29. No, He Cannot.

By not coming out strongly, it would give his opponent an opening. The Tenn. race is too close to take any chances this late.

Forget Kerry. He can take it. Keep the focus.

[mmonk]

60. I AM keeping focus. That's my point.

Harold Ford demanding an apology to the troops from John Kerry can now be interjected by the republicans in all our races effectively leaving out bush and the republicans as an issue.

[Stand and Fight]

22. Ford is NOT running NATIONALLY.

He is running to be the next Senator from Tennessee. Do you really think the media down there was not going to ask him his opinion on this matter? He might as well get ahead of the issue now. However, I adamently disagree with his approach. He ought to have gotten in front of the issue by saying something to the affect of, "Look John Kerry misspoke as one who has actually been to war. This election is not about Kerry however - it is about a referendum on the war in Iraq. What matters he is that US troops are bogged down in a war in Iraq, with no end in sight, and they were sent there by George W. Bush. If anyone owes the troops an apology it is George W. Bush." In this way he'd not have been agreeing/disagreeing with Kerry, and he would have been bringing the issue back to the Iraq War, which is precisely what Bush and company do not want.

[mmonk]

31. So you're saying this scenario isn't playing out nationally?

Only local Tennessee press is covering Harold's request?

[Stand and Fight]

63. Ford is running in Tennessee. Period.

That is what matters.

[mmonk]

70. Truth and integrity should matter too. This will be used nationally.

It doesn't matter if he is running in Tennessee or New York or for dog catcher in a small town. It's bearing false witness.

[Stand and Fight]

77. Bearing false witness....

Truth and integrity certainly matter, and in 2006 so do winning elections. On that note, idealism is certainly a nice concept, but you do NOT win on idealism in politics.

[Clark2008]

37. Considering that they're very good friends and Harold was

Kerry's campaign chairman in Tennessee, I would guess you're precisely correct.

Some people on this board wouldn't know how to flip a purple state if their lives depended on it.

Tennessee is ripe - Dem governor and majority Dem state General Assembly. Ford is within striking distance of Corker - the first time a Dem has been in a Senate race since Gore left for the White House - and these people want purity.

Geesch.

[mmonk]

62. It's not about purity. It's about being used by the republicans

to create an issue that doesn't include them or their job performance.

[Clark2008]

69. Have you looked at Heath Shuler's policies lately?

I'd concern myself with YOUR state before coming next door to meddle in MY state's affairs.

Thanks.

[mmonk]

78. I was commenting on the request, not about your state, my state,

or Shuler's policies. I'll speak my mind.

[EFerrari]

75. Of course he did. Wtf is the matter with these people.

[mmonk]

6. When he respects Kerry enough to leave him alone

and not give creedence to republican attacks on him.

[oasis]

8. Ford "proactively"??? issued a press release. He's a two faced weasel.

He aligns himself with the like of backstabbing John McCain.

BTW, Kerry does not need to apologize.

[Clark2008]

38. Nope. He was asked on the radio this morning.

The press release came later.

Sorry for your believing the crap on this board.

[oasis]

56. One thing is certain, Ford comes out of this looking like a jellyfish.(n/t)

[bluestateguy]

12. I understand that

but it won't do Ford any good, and it may even hurt him a little.

Rabid, knuckle dragging foam at the mouth Ford-haters will not be suddenly impressed by his "independence" and decide to vote for him. They'll just shrug it off and vote for Corker like they plan to.

Democratic base voters in Tennessee will just be alienated, and a few may even pass on him as a result.

[Clark2008]

41. That isn't going to happen.

If a Dem passes on their only chance to have a Dem in the Senate in Tennessee in 12 years, then they're stupid. I don't think many Tennessee Dems are stupid.

This is statement is playing to the "voted for Republicans for the past three cycles and are fed up with them" crowd. There are tons of those Reagan Democrats in Tennessee. TONS.

[bluestateguy]

45. All right, if Ford goes up in the polls and wins, I'll say I was wrong

You're the one in Tennessee, so I'll defer to your judgement, but then I expect you to be right.

[Clark2008]

71. I didn't say he was going to win.

He's TRYING to win.

There might be far too many racists crawling out of the woodwork to pull off a Ford win.

It saddens me that my state is going to be a laughing stock after this election when even Virginia goes blue and Tennessee is still stuck in the dark ages - being represented by two mush-mouthed politicians with absoultely no backbone and no abilities to stand up for the rights of the vast majority of us who work for less-than-national wage-averages.

Tennessee is actually better than that - but we have a lousy media and, apparently, very little GOTV apparatus set in place to get black voters, women voters, working-class voters and all the others who would ensure a Ford win out to vote.

[Connie_Corleone]

14. No one forced him to say ANYTHING about Kerry.

Ford decided to capitalize on this and issued a statement that no one asked him to issue.

Since I don't live in Tennessee and don't have to vote for him, I can say Ford can go fuck himself.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yavin4]

21. Do You Live in Tenn.?

Do you understand the state electorate of Tenn.? Have you worked on a statewide campaign in Tenn.? Are you an African American trying to win a state wide office in Tenn.?

[Clark2008]

49. Nope - the poster's in California.

A state that needs to worry less about Tennesse politics and more about getting rid of their own senator who votes her husband's war-mongering wallet.

Just saying...

[Guaranteed]

81. Does Ford live in Massachusetts?

Does he need to worry about what a Massachusetts Senator is doing? Is Ford purporting to speak for the Massachusetts electorate?

Gee, these are all great points that you and I are making, except that it has nothing to do with the fact that what Ford said compromises our party and its leadership.

[Ian David]

18. The good thing about electing "conservatives," be they Dem or Repuke...

is they seem to eventually commit some kind of sexual offense and don't end up lasting too long, anyway.

I would vote for Harold Ford, but start collecting money for someone to challenge him in the next primary.

[William Bloode]

19. I am leaving him alone.

Thats exactly why i burned his last check! The torture vote got him with me, this is just a little cherry on top.

I could give a fuck less if he wins or not. I have a bit too much pride and self respect to hold my nose and support someone who does not support my views, and helps the other side.

Eat shit and die Harold Ford!

[Touchdown]

23. He's a traitor.

You don't publically call out your own brother for burning your lawn with his new grilling scheme. You talk to him alone, one on one, because that's what respect TRULY is!

Ford went to the MEDIA with his thoughts. Wrong move, and he needs to pay for that.

Not that I want the GOP to retain control, but I'm not going to shed a tear if he loses, and it will probably be over this.

[trumad]

26. Fuck the Whore

[Clark2008]

28. And it will.

Thank you.

[Stand and Fight]

32. What Ford Should Have Said...

Look -- the media down in Tennessee was going to ask Ford about his opinion on this issue no matter what, and he was wise to get a jump on it ahead of time before Republicans started painting HIM as anti-troops. However, I adamently disagree with his approach. He ought to have gotten in front of the issue by saying something to the affect of, "Look John Kerry misspoke as one who has actually been to war. This election is not about Kerry however - it is about a referendum on the war in Iraq. What matters he is that US troops are bogged down in a war in Iraq, with no end in sight, and they were sent there by George W. Bush. If anyone owes the troops an apology it is George W. Bush." In this way he'd not have been agreeing/disagreeing with Kerry, and he would have been bringing the issue back to the Iraq War, which is precisely what Bush and company do not want.

[Yavin4]

33. I Cannot Believe Some of You

Do you want the majority or not? That's what at stake here. Not every state is Calif.

[MADem]

40. Some just don't get how the game is played.

And it IS a game. Some think that politicians should always mean what they say, not get tactical or strategic, and not run right and rule left.

Of course, if Ford did that, he'd be at 30 percent if he were LUCKY, not neck and neck.

Ideology is fine in concept, but adherence to it in campaign season ensures that your team never gets to play in the big show.

You gotta forgive those that get all huffy and dramatic, because they simply don't understand it--they are naive, they believed the history lessons of their youth, and never took a course in political strategy.

[bling bling]

79. You can never leave DU.

I couldn't enjoy it here without the posters that provide a refreshing balance to the discussions.

Plus I also happen to agree with your posts at least 95% of the time and it's always nice to see like-minded posts when I'm feeling like my POV is in the minority.

[MADem]

80. The ideologues mean well, they're true believers...but that said,

they're also a bit inflexible and intolerant (and they get rather 'intolerant' when you tell them so!). So, ya just try to pull them along to reality a little bit at a time. Some get dramatic--"I'll take my ball and go HOME" and use words like NEVER VOTE FOR (fill in offender) again.

They treat it like it's not our future, and the future of generations to come, but instead, a contact sport. You see this on both sides of the aisle; the main difference is that those on our side are generally better spellers and appear to be a bit more intelligent than the ones on the GOP team.

Politics isn't just "local" it's also the art of compromise. Some think that principles can't coexist with compromise, but some of our best leaders have, in fact, been able to achieve both.

[LittleClarkie]

89. I like Kerry. People criticize Kerry. I don't tell them to leave him alone.

DU isn't much on shutting the fuck up. We tend to be loud and proud.

[KharmaTrain]

35. Well Stated

This place has the worst poker players.

For weeks, people were fretting a Rove "October Surprise". Guess what kids? Here it is. This was a gotcha trap that was set broad and wide...find a national Democrat to demonize...if it wasn't something Kerry said, it would have been something Hillary did or Howard Dean or Michael Moore...someone/anyone to rally their demoralized base. Many here are ready to fold without even knowing that Rove is only has a pair of deuces. He's got ya so psyched out, when he yells boo, you hit the panic button.

Ford now gets the chance to innoculate himself again as being an Independent in a Red state...and now gets the focus turned onto his opponent. Part of this gotcha game is for a Corker or Felix Allen to now hop in front of a camera and demand their opponent to denounce the remark and this card is gone from the game. Ford, if you didn't see, turned the game around...he put the focus on the same issue as Kerry did...on this regime's incompetence and Corker would be a rubber stamp for continued corruption.

Ford took the club out of Rove's hand again. John Kerry isn't going to win him votes, but george boooosh is gonna lose more vote for Corker...and that's where the game has to be played.

[Yavin4]

36. Thank You!

A voice of reason.

[KharmaTrain]

43. You're Very Welcome...If This Were Chuck Hagel...

This place would call him brave and intrepid.

Reason is lost during the silly season.

Cheers...

:toast:

[LostinVA]

50. No, I wouldn't -- and I bet many other DUers wouldn't either

Ford is a turncoat as much as Lieberman... there's a reason when there's not an "R" after his name.

[KharmaTrain]

54. Liebermann Chairs Committee And Takes Repugnican Money

Again, then don't vote or send your money to Ford. Do you think Corker and a Repugnican controlled Senate is going to serve your agenda better?

This election is now a bar room brawl...the only thing Repugnicans know how to fight and if Ford was such an "R", they wouldn't be throwing all the slime at him...they're sure not doing it to LIEberman.

Most Du'ers will take a Democratic Majority in the Senate...or I would hope so.

[Clark2008]

44. I love you..

:applause:

[Stand and Fight]

39. What Ford Should Have Said...

Look -- the media down in Tennessee was going to ask Ford about his opinion on this issue no matter what, and he was wise to get a jump on it ahead of time before Republicans started painting HIM as anti-troops. However, I adamently disagree with his approach. He ought to have gotten in front of the issue by saying something to the affect of, "Look John Kerry misspoke as one who has actually been to war. This election is not about Kerry however - it is about a referendum on the war in Iraq. What matters he is that US troops are bogged down in a war in Iraq, with no end in sight, and they were sent there by George W. Bush. If anyone owes the troops an apology it is George W. Bush." In this way he'd not have been agreeing/disagreeing with Kerry, and he would have been bringing the issue back to the Iraq War, which is precisely what Bush and company do not want.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clark2008]

47. I hope that TN in your name doesn't stand for Tennessee

because if you - and Democrats like you - don't vote for Ford and help saddle us with Corker, then I'm blaming YOUR sorry ass.

Get of the purity soap box and get on with winning the Senate majority. A vote for Ford is a vote for Patrick Leahy as chairman of the Judicial Committee.

Duh.

And, if you're not a Tennessean, boy, am I glad you can't vote here.

[TNOE]

59. No, I don't live in Tennessee

But I'm sticking with my point - FUCK HAROLD FORD AND ALL THE FUCKING DEMOCRATIC COWARDS WHO ARE NOW DISTINCING THEMSELVES FROM HIM

WHAT DO YOU THINK ALL THE REPUKE BOARDS ARE TALKING ABOUT TODAY? THE DEMS RUNNING AWAY FROM KERRY. REAL FUCKING SMART.

HAROLD FORD SHOULD HAVE SHUT HIS FUCKING MOUTH.

Cowardly Dems make me as sick as cowarding repukes. Quit playing Karl Rove's game and get back on messiage - IRAQ IS A FUCKING MESS AND OUR TROOPS ARE PAYING THE PRICE.

WHERE IS THE RESPECT FOR KERRY'S SERVICE.

HE DOES NOT NEED TO APOLOGIVE - EVER.

[Clark2008]

72. Whatever.

GENERAL Wesley Clark is campaigning with Harold Ford Jr. today.

His service trumps Kerry's in a heartbeat - if you want to take that route.

Fuck you, too, for sticking your nose in MY state's affairs.

[Neecy]

46. Agreed, with one exception

Yeah, I'd like to have the majority in the Senate for the purpose of investigating this crowd of thugs, and that's the only reason I'd be willing to give Ford a pass on this.

However, do you really think that Harold Ford is going to help block right-wing judges? Really? Or is Ford going to calculate how his judicial votes will play back home and dutifully cast his vote for the next Roberts? I think you're giving him far too much credit.

[LostinVA]

51. What you said -- good post

[Neecy]

53. We need to be realistic about what we'd be getting

The majority if fine, but there's no doubt that Ford would be to the right of Landrieu in his votes - and you know how much fury has been directed at Landrieu here. I just think we need to accept and understand what we're getting and not putting our faith in him to block wingnut judges.

[LostinVA]

61. Yup, the "D" doesn't make him a Dem at all

He just knows there's ZERO chance of him getting elected in TN with an "R" after his name.

[Yavin4]

67. He Won't Have To

That's what the chairman of the judiciary committee does.

[LostinVA]

48. No, I won't, and if you think he's a conservative DEM,

when he's more conservative on social views than many Senate Republicans.....

He attacked Dem leadership for attacking Bush.

Screw that.

I want Congress, but Ford sucks.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. Jim Webb 's No Liberal But We Support Him...

He basically said women joined the Naval Academy to get laid by buff men but we give him a pass because we want the seat...


Why doesn't Harold Ford get a pass?

[Clark2008]

55. Because he's a DU favorite whipping boy.

"Boy" being the operative word, I think.

I think people need to check their racism at the door - and realize that not ALL black Americans think alike. Presuming all black men is as liberal as Conyers is just as racists as Corker's jungle drums ad.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

57. Harold Ford Is Trying To Represent An Entire Southern State...

John Conyers represents Detroit which is 82% African American and overwhelmingly liberal. Harold Ford is trying to represnt a state that I believe is 11% African American and overwhemlingly right of center.

He's between a rock and a hard place.


I don't have any good answers...

[Benhurst]

58. I don't have a dog in this fight; but how long ago was it

that Webb made his stupid remark about women in the Naval Academy?

And how long ago was it that Ford made his statement about Kerry.

As far as answering direct questions, when was the last time any Republican answered a direct question?

A Republican candidate asked about a similar remark made by one of his or her own, would have ignored the question and given the press nothing but a rant against the Democratic party.

The Republicans and the corporate media were set to jump on and twist something said by a major Democrat this week. John Kerry just gave them the opportunity, sort of. If they had needed to, they would have pulled a trick like they did against Howard Dean -- which fooled even cynical me. They all knew they were using a filtered version of his "scream" but they lied, and lied and lied to make him look crazy.

"The land of the free." Yeah. Sure.

[Cha]

73. I think possibly Jim Webb has

evolved since then..I hope I'm around when harold ford reaches any progression.

I know Gore, Dean and Kerry have all been through a major transition over the years that has been to their credit.

[AZBlue]

64. I agree. We criticize the Reps for group-think, but then turn around &

lambast one of our own for daring to think differently than we do.

We can't have it both ways, people.

[robbedvoter]

65. We all defended him against racists attacks, he now turns around

and shows why Democrats are not to be trusted....Disgusting! How am I even going to expect some improvement from his win, if there's no limit to their compromising?

[Yavin4]

68. Bottom Line Is This: DO YOU WANT THE SENATE MAJORITY OR NOT?

That's the question you have to ask yourself. Whatever Ford's views are, he can be contained in the Senate. With a majority, the party liberals and moderates will control things.

Let Ford say and do whatever it takes to get elected, and we sort things out from there.

[southerncrone]

82. As a Tennessean who grew up in Chattanooga at

the same time as Bob Corker, I can unquestionably state that "our nation does NOT want Corker in the Senate"! He is taking credit for revitalizing Chattanooga, which is a lie. That process was started long b/4 he was Mayor, he just rode the coat tails of his predecessors. Sure the the process was on a continuum while he was in office, but it was inertia. There is an attorney there who is looking into some land in the city of Chattanooga that Corker states he sold to a "mysterious stranger that sailed into town" and supposedly bought this property. But the attorney can find no record of the transactions at the courthouse. Corker is a puppet for the neocons & nothing more.
I personally don't think he wanted to run for this seat. The Repubs didn't have any other credible candidates to run, that's why GW made so many trips to TN earlier. Now he's in, he has to make the most of it, so he forks over the $. The Reds need this seat badly.
I'm glad Ford is trying to take a "nip it in the bud" approach to the now "Kerry said what?" fiasco created by the Repuke turn-everything-around-to-mean-something-else-to-divert-attention-away-from-the-important-issues manipulators. The media is lapping this Kerry thing up. I can't blame Ford for trying to put it to rest so he can forge ahead in trying to get out the vote. I think it makes him look stronger. As Clark2008, my fellow TN neighbor, stated: the objective is to win the Senate seat. I'm not completely happy with alot of Ford's votes, but I would hate ALL of Corker's.
We use to be a Blue state, I think that we still are at heart, but the soul of TN has been high jacked by the silver-tongued, fear-promoting Repukes. We have had too may Red Senators here for too long. I need to see some Blue! Go Ford.:grouphug:

[LittleClarkie]

90. Like we can stop him. He can do what he likes. Just not without rebuttal

or criticism from some quarters. That's just the way the cookie bounces.

How can a bunch of people on a messageboard affect him in the slightest?

[incapsulated]

74. I fucking hate Ford.... and I support this message

I don't care what he has to do to win, just win. We are talking about the possibility of a MAJORITY IN THE SENATE, do you realize the implications of this? This is more important than one senator or what you think of Harold Ford. I certainly don't give a shit what he says about John Foot in Mouth Kerry, if dissing him will help him win and give us the majority, bash his fucking brains in, I don't care.

[EFerrari]

76. LOL!

:rofl:

Agree.

[AtomicKitten]

85. you have a way with words

... and I agree with your sentiment about the election, but I don't hate Ford. He's running a race in a part of the country the way he needs to win. We should try to understand that.

[McCamy Taylor]

83. Why are we fighting among ourselves when we could be getting out the vote?

[LSK]

84. im glad i missed most of the NONSENSE

I have been too busy VOLUNTEERING.

[LittleClarkie]

86. If he can't take care of himself and also show some integrity

I'll damned well NOT leave him alone. And if my Russ fucks up, I don't expect people to leave him alone either.

What are you, his mommie?

[nomaco-10]

87. Well, tell me, what would you have us tn dems do.....

don't vote, stay home?
Look, he's not my ideal candidate, but once again as a great many here will tell you, you have to hold your nose and vote for the lesser of two evils sometimes. We live in a country under siege, the USA is not UTOPIA.
The stakes are too high not to vote. People are dying, laws are being broken by the very people who were sworn to uphold them, lower middle class families that once got by, are now living out of their cars, there are children in this, one of the richest and powerful countries in the world that went to bed hungry tonight, families all over this country are suffering and dying because they cannot afford health care.
Harold Ford is doing whatever it takes to get elected, sure the pandering to the right on some issues bothers me greatly, but I have a feeling that he will be a better representative of my state once he gets to the senate, and is out from under the pressure of trying to be all things to all people. Tn is a tough state for dems, hell, it didn't even carry Gore.
Let's give Harold a break, he's certainly head and shoulders over Corker.

[LittleClarkie]

88. So vote for him already.

I didn't think the OP was about voting for the man or not voting for the man. It was about people here at DU being critical of him. If the dude can't take criticism, he ain't gonna last long. And God knows people here aren't into being told what to do and such.

[T Town Jake]

91. I agree entirely.

:thumbsup:

[Moderator]

92. Locking.....

This is flamebait.