THIS IS CLASS WAR! Why da fuck are Democrats on the defensive?

[omega minimo]

Kerry's lame joke about Bush pointed to privilege and power, the value of education and the impacts of squandering it (bogus war, squandered lives, ruined international reputation, yadda yadda yadda)

The joke that Repukes are pretending Kerry made points to privilege and power, the value of education and the impacts of limited opportunities.

THIS IS CLASS WAR. When Repukes accuse Democrats, let Democrats turn around and say "DAMN STRAIGHT IT IS CLASS WAR! It's the war of the Investor Class on the Working/Middle Class!!"

Unfortunately for the American people, more people working for us in the Capitol are of the Investor Class than the Working/Middle Class, so it is impolite and impolitic to bring that up.

SO THE DAMN TALKING POINTS ARE STARING DEMOCRATS IN THE FACE AND THEY CAN'T USE THEM.

The Repuglicans are practiced manipulators and bullies. Some Democrats have convinced themselves that we need to use Repuke tactics to win.

"Framing" is not the problem here. Having representatives who cannot or will not speak the truth clearly and simply is the problem here.

POOR WHITE/BLACK/NATIVEAMERICAN/ASIAN/ETC. PEOPLE FIGHT AMERICA'S WARS FOR THE RICH PEOPLE.

RICH PEOPLE SEND OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN TO FIGHT THEIR WARS.

RICH PEOPLE ARE LINING THEIR POCKETS WITH TREASURE FROM THEIR WARS.




And the Viet Nam Vet I talked with at the Viet Nam Memorial yesterday told me so. He doesn't have to "frame" it. He lives it.

[ixion]

1. and every time they speak truth to power, and then apologize for it

it digs the hole a little bit deeper. :-(

[WildEyedLiberal]

11. He didn't apologize for it.

He said he didn't mean to botch the joke - he did NOT apologize for the substance, which is that Bush's ignorance led us into war.

[omega minimo]

14. To me it sounded like

he said he was sorry that his words were misinterpreted and he apologized to anyone that took offense. He seems to be handling it well considering the indignity and absurdity of the game the Repukes and media are playing.

Local news stations must be on the same national feed, spinning/describing the quote as "remarks Kerry made about the troops." :puke:

[LaurenG]

2. I am beginning to think they need to hire a republican

to teach them how to fight fire with fire.

[walldude]

15. They have one... David Brock of Media Matters

They just don't seem to want to ask him for help.

[omega minimo]

16. What would he do for them?

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

4. And rich people pay for their ads in the last week of an election year.

How do we get these truthful "talking points" out there? How does one point out that corporations are a hostile force in this country, that they constantly rely on workers to vote against their own interests? I'm sure NBC affiliates will love running ads claiming that minorities die for GE profits.

Who pays for these ads? You're going to ask them to pay for ads that go against their corporate interests? You can win a congressional seat here or there, but nothing major.

Sorry, I've been drinking my scrumptiously cynical tea this morning.

Oh, and by the way, I agree with you completely--albeit it sourly. This is why I like the idea of public-financed elections. But that's another topic.

[woo me with science]

5. I would not go this direction.

First, Kerry was clearly talking about Bush, not the troops. Others have posted here that this is a joke he has used multiple times before...it just came out worded differently this time.

It may be a legitimate argument that some troops get there because they have few other options, but that is NOT what Kerry said. His wording was clearly pejorative and clearly directed at the President. He didn't say that young people without options end up in Iraq. He said that someone who doesn't study and doesn't try to be smart ends up in Iraq. If you try to make that comment about the troops, you are being inaccurate and unfair to Kerry.

[omega minimo]

7. Taboo $$ issues = Dems get stuck in Repug petty lies & dirty tricks

Your point well taken. I know that's not what Kerry said. However, the point of the first two sentences is that these issues underscore everything that the two privileged parties are playing patty cake over. And the thought that this bullshit could influence the election!!!!!!!!!!!

The OP pushes for a gut level truth to cut through the bullshit that hobbles Democrats due to their own complicity in the taboo subject.

Hartmann today suggests Kerry should speak plainly in a "Joe Sixpack" manner. Watching all the miniscule "framing" type tippie toe responses and equivocations today is unbearable given "the stakes" of this war and this election. Watching Dems twist in the wind because Republicans had a 20 year head start on becoming Master Baiters is ridiculous.

Some times ya gotta cut to the chase. People are dying. Poor people are dying for rich people. Not all of them are poor. The games still rigged. The rich get richer and the poor get dead.

[earth mom]

6. Damn straight it's a class war!

Here's the TRUTH from your post, let's keep on saying it until people get it!

POOR WHITE/BLACK/NATIVEAMERICAN/ASIAN/ETC. PEOPLE FIGHT AMERICA'S WARS FOR THE RICH PEOPLE.

RICH PEOPLE SEND OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN TO FIGHT THEIR WARS.

RICH PEOPLE ARE LINING THEIR POCKETS WITH TREASURE FROM THEIR WARS

:grr:

[wcepler]

13. As you say, damn straight its a class war!

Nothing to add.

wcproteus

[Hidden Stillness]

8. The Media IS Your Corporate Oppressor

I have been so fucking angry today over this thing; I have called two local TV stations over their noon "news" coverage of this. The first one actually lied that Kerry was having to cancel campaign appearances with others "due to those harsh comments he made about U.S. troops." I went over to the phone, fuming and shaking, and called the station, which I never do. I said I wanted to make a comment about something they had just said on their "news" broadcast, that the remark was NOT against the troops, it was about how stupid Bush is, and "I'd like you to correct it," with every word breathing fire. Then--bam!--hung up the phone. A few minutes later, ANOTHER known corporate pimp on another channel was interviewing a REPUBLICAN, and asked the REPUBLICAN if "Kerry should apologize"! Back to the phone. This time, I was put through to the newsroom, and blasted them again: "It was NOT about the troops, it was about BUSH; Please correct that"--bam!, I hung up. The words just flowed out of me, I was not nervous, I made every point I intended to, clearly, with anger but no filth or threat, and did not "frame" it to death.

There is a thread on DU called "Here is the joke Kerry was trying to tell, he's told it many times..." by Dems Will Win; everybody should print up page 1 of that thread to get the OP and the Kerry quote. It is very clear it was to Bush. Yes, Kerry fucked up the joke and even I thought it was an offensive "joke" about troops getting stuck, but when you clear it up and it is about Bush CAUSING them to be there, then that part is over. Now, you start to realize that the corporate media is deliberately lying, and stealing our democracy right away from us--at every opportunity. They KNOW they are lying about what the reference was, and they intend to!

[omega minimo]

9. Selective Soundbite Perception Management

Hartmann pointed out several times today that the clips eliminated the previous lines leading up to it, where JK was repeatedly using Bush's name and clearly criticizing Bush. (A caller said that too many Dems and AAR voices were neglecting to say "about Bush" after the words "Kerry's joke").

When I saw the tape, it appeared JK was distracted, his attention drifted out toward the front of the crowd, he trailed off a bit............ then came the flubbed "punchline."

So we have an illegal war of choice and profit and a complicit media that selectively reports and creatively mis/presents "reality."

Soundbites suck.

Oops-- more "filth" :evilgrin: :hi: :hug: HS

Thank you for calling them HS. It's worth doing. This is outrageous.

[Generator]

10. Frankly I'm realizing that nothing

will ever really change in this country. Not only can you not say what you really think if you are someone of Kerry's stature-I don't even think I'm allowed to say it here on DU. But I will. I heard Bill Maher say it last week. Cannon Fodder. That's what I think those that sign up for the military in this day and age are doing. IT's not WW2. It's all a bunch of lies to make some old white men richer and sacrifice the children of the poor for global power, greed, and probably just more power. Or a whim. Or an idea of remaking the middle east. But until we can tell the truth-that joining the military today-with the leaders we have is NOT some great patriotic act that should be commended but yes is an act of stupidity. Of course I feel tremendous sorrow for all those that DID sign up to protect this country because their intent is true-but the reality is not. They are not protecting Alabama or Ohio or wherever. They are not protecting America's shores. THIS debate is never even had. But I have to honor the sadness that the only choice that many of these poor people could do for a job to live is join the military by pretending they are "making me free" and "saving my life". It's a lie. (In fact this war has stripped us of more liberties than we probably even know just yet) I don't think that honors them. Stopping the war, stopping these wars of choice for profit by telling them the truth would honor them. By stopping the next damn war from happening.

How long is America going to delude itself? Did we learn NOTHING from Vietnam? Kerry?

I just can't take this crap anymore. I want a politician that says don't sign up for their bogus wars-you are just cannon fodder to them-when we have that-maybe in a hundred years (after at least three more useless wars) if America wises up-then maybe this will be the country I once thought it was. Until we have decent leaders in this country-run as far as you can from the military-they do not deserve you or your life.

[omega minimo]

12. Yep

and again the perception management has a lot to do with the mental mess of why people go into the military, for what reasons-- we're all subjected to the propaganda. Look at the sexed up Army/Air Force hi tech commercials on TeeVee (wait, haven't been running those much lately, have they............)

"Stopping the war, stopping these wars of choice for profit by telling them the truth would honor them. By stopping the next damn war from happening."

I mentioned this to the Vet at the Memorial yesterday. How we wish military to know we CARE, we SUPPORT not putting them on the line unecessarily, we support not BREAKING the military as *co has done.

That's when he said, 'It's the ones with money that are protesting. It's the poor-- the poor whites, the poor blacks, the poor hispanics that get sent to the war."

"I want a politician that says don't sign up for their bogus wars-you are just cannon fodder to them-when we have that-maybe in a hundred years (after at least three more useless wars) if America wises up-then maybe this will be the country I once thought it was."

A healthy way to approach this would be to listen to the military leaders, Vets and Congressmembers who know the military has been broken by BushGulfWar II. Randi Rhodes said 57 returning Vets are running for Congressional seats-- most (all?) as Democrats.