Obama's shooting star to burn out. Real soon.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

It sounded too good to be true. A smart, good-looking, articulate, and educated man who happens to be the proper religion AND is black.
The surprise junior senator from Illinois.
A potential 08 presidential candidate, especially when Hillary is hated by almost as many democrats as republicans.

Oh, it was too good to be true.

It turns out that Obama is as dirty as the rest of Illinois current crop (that may be misspelled) of pols on either side of the aisle.

"Tony" Rezko was indicted last week. He was the scum-sucking bottom feeder that controlled job gifts for people who donated enough to Gov. Rod Blogojevich (D-Ill) and his future presidential campaign. He also has connections with the worst of the worst criminal element of both political parties, many of whom are lawyering up as we speak.

Unfortunately for Obama, he and Rezko are tied together in an unseemly land deal in which Obama bought a 1.65 million mansion only because Rezko managed to buy the adjacent lot - after talking the developer into splitting the property so Obama could "afford" it. It gets worse. Rezko "claimed" to want to "develop" his property, but then sold a 10 foot wide strip to Obama, vastly increasing the beauty and value (at an incredible price) of the Obama property, while making Rezko's more suited for a trashy trailer park, than another mansion.

For those non-illinoisians who don't understand this for what it is, it is spelled, "B R I B E" and gave Rezko great control over Obama. Just like Rezko got over dems and GOPers throughout the state before him. To put it plainly, Rezko is poison. His indictment will bring down many pols in Illinois. His indictment has led to at least 14 other high ranking people (in both parties) checking out their passports and researching which South American countries have the toughest extradition laws.

If nothing else, Obama has had his Whitewater moment - and he failed the test miserably. Especially when he "can't recall" the nature and extent of his conversations, dealings, and promises to Rezko. His biggest selling point was his ethical position on senate behavior, and problem solving. Rubbing elbows with one of the worst political bribers, grafters, movers and shakers in Illinois has poisoned his career plans.
A well written article in today's Chi Suntimes. http://www.suntimes.com/news/brown/121104,CST-NWS-brown02.article

Too bad. I had high hopes for Obama, even though he has accomplished little so far in the senate.

[niallmac]

1. Capitalism and Democracy..

It's like drinking and driving. Dangerous but gotta find a safe way to do it because
metaphorically we're all alcoholics.

[papau]

2. Obama paid for property - there'll be no fallout or scandal.

Obama said it was always his understanding that Rezko, a real estate developer, intended to build on the lot. It would be more of a favor if he didn't. Rezko definitely did Obama a favor by selling him the 10-foot strip of land, making his own parcel less attractive for development, although still legally buildable.

[Nickster]

3. There's no "there" there. But nice try.

"There's no known quid pro quo here. Obama said he's done nothing to benefit Rezko through his government activities, and I don't know otherwise. Obama appears to have paid a fair price for the land he bought from Rezko."

So tell me exactly where in the story it says that Obama is "as dirty as the rest of Illinois current crop.."?

[Connie_Corleone]

4. Just trying to scare people into not supporting Obama if he runs.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. why would I do that? If Obama was truly untarnished, why would I

not support him? Boy, talk about confused realities. If Obama is not what he appears, and if he has a major league scandal (Rezko connections) tied to him, it would be far worse than Truman's connections with the prendergast political machine in Misery. Don't we want to know that now, and either fix it or deal with it, or do prefer unpleasant surprises at the worst possible time?
Or does Obama walk on water already, and therefore immune from rational analysis? The problem with allowing your personal hopes and aspirations interfere with reality is that reality has this pesky habit of surviving.

[ContraBass Black]

40. That's a lot of "if."

Where is the evidence that makes him "as dirty as the rest?"



Edited for spelling

[Nickster]

42. Kinda interesting how the OP takes an article full of guessing and takes that

as if it was fact and then attacks everyone else for being naive about Illinois politics, blah blah blah. Baseless charges and baseless attacks that the OP seems pretty intent on pushing without any facts. Sounds mighty suspect to me.

[goclark]

52. The day I see an "untarnished" politician

all hell will freeze over.


The laws change to fit the people in power.

Foley is still in Bar Rehab.

GW is still the Resident

Kerry told a joke
Dean had a scream
Clinton had Monica


Now BUSH and his thugs KILLED untold thousands and in my mind he is "tarnished." But he is still in office and will be.


OBAMA '08

[bigtree]

5. go away

[Midlodemocrat]

7. and fast.

[zanne]

6. As far as scandals go...

Not very scandalous.

[SmokingJacket]

17. Reminds me of Hevesi in New York.

Republicans are trying to bring him down because he used state funds to pay for transportation for his disabled wife.

Yeah, okay, maybe he should have been more open and I'm glad he paid the state back.... but if THAT'S the worst kind of "dirt" they can pin on democrats, I'm definitely in the right party.

[hedgehog]

37. As opposed to forcing state employees into private 401K plans

like his opponent promises. I'm with Hevesi all the way. IMO, this "scandal" is payback for when he nailed Pataki for chartering flights in his buddies' private jets at exorbitant prices. Pataki has 4- count them - 4 state-owned jets at his disposal.

[Wickerman]

8. pretty harsh post based on one article that was more ambivalent

There's no known quid pro quo here. Obama said he's done nothing to benefit Rezko through his government activities, and I don't know otherwise. Obama appears to have paid a fair price for the land he bought from Rezko.

For the record, the Rezko land is still buildable, not "more suited for a trashy trailer park, than another mansion." It was a side lot in the first place. 10 feet isn't going to make a difference. Some rich fuck will still get his starter castle.

[hedgehog]

9. Sounds like a typical home town put down

I put this in the same category as Kerry's gaffe. I don't doubt that some Republicans will try to spend millions looking for dirt.

[SouthernBelle82]

56. I would compare it more so

to Reid's whole land deal thing that happened a while back. It appears to be the same type of thing I think. :shrug: Of course I don't know Illinois laws.

[KharmaTrain]

10. What Was He Supposed To To In Two Years?

As a junior Senator in the minority in a Senate run like Frist's private country club? How about what Hillary did in her first two years or Feingold or anyone else?

I could never understand the false messiah feelings many had about my Junior Senator. Maybe some got caught up in the hype, others transferred some magical powers to him and he could do no wrong. Now it's a shock we find out he's a politician? Well knock me over as a feather.

Brown says there's no quid pro quo...meaning there's no mention of how Obama used his influence to benefit Rezko...maybe that shoe is still to drop and the article doesn't mention who the other "named" politicians are. So we have inferences without specifics...headlines that reads one way and an article that says another...not something Mr. Brown hasn't done before. This is a Conrad Black paper...and a shame, this was my parent's newspaper when Field owned it and it was the Democratic alternative to the Tribune. We cancelled our subscription as they continued to print that asshat Mark Steyn and gave O'Reilly a column...and looks like someone's out to burst Obama's bubble.

In many ways, I'm hope this cools Obama's jets. While I support him and would gladly vote to re-elect him in 2010, I think my Senior Senator, Dick Durbin has done far more for the state and the country. Barakamania was built on a cartoon partially manufactured by the media and added onto by many who attached their cause/stuggle to him without really looking into who he really is.

Seems quite interesting that this story comes out before an election where many Democrats are gonna hold their nose to vote for Blagoyovich, and in Cook County there are downticket races that stink...and seems to me to be an effort to suppress suburban voters who could tip the balance in one of three congressional races. Very sneaky Mr. Brown...Mehlmann's check in in the mail.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

12. I totally agree. Durbin has done far more, and on tougher issues than

Barack. And while Obama seems to disappear into the woodwork on hot botton issues, Durbin (except for his one apology) has taken the heat and stood his ground on a whole range of issues.

To those who think there is no smoke and no fire, you really have no clue about Illinois politics. There never is a quid pro quo. Never. Unless you are like "Quarters" Boyle or Stu Levine on a particular deal. The criminal element is far more patient in Illinois politics. They "invest" in people over a long period time. They put down markers and do favors, and collect people's souls. When the time comes and they need a favor back, bam. there it is. It has been that way since even before the time that a mafia family member headed the chicago police squad in charge of gaming, prostitution and cooperating with the Feds. It existed before Paul Powell was found dead but with shoe boxes filled with millions in cash in his closet (an infamous sec. of state) It existed before Ald. Roti determined who got city contracts and who got killed in Mayor's Row restaurant across from City Hall. It existed as long as Al Capone bought the entire city council and mayor off.

Anyone thinking that this was an innocent transaction and does not bode badly for Obama is naive. You don't understand how business is done in this state. And how scummy it is. OK fine. You want to make a major mistake on Obama, and see his campaign come crashing down to a halt at the worst possible time, fine, ignore the reality - the harsh, stark and unpleasant reality of a guy who should know better. And didn't.

I repeat, Rezko's poison. He will poison dozens of Illinois pols on both sides of the aisle. This will become a huge problem for Obama. Mark Brown, unless you are really dense, is not a political hack for the Suntimes. To the contrary, he writes fairly and researches well. Usually he has quite a bit more ammo that he does NOT write about. To claim that he is in the pay of Ken Mehlman is like the Hitler shooting the messenger about D-Day. Really, really shortsighted.

[KharmaTrain]

21. The Grab 'Em Early

One of the biggest disappointments I've had in recent years is how corrupt Blagoyovich has become. While the quid pro quo is never on the surface, it's not to far below. Obama is a product of a system that is based on patronage...especially in Cook county and his rise related to how well he moved up in the machine. I am reserving judgement on this story until more information comes out. If Obama did make deals to gain personally for his political service, he will get his proper due. Remember, Pat Fitzgerald looks like he's got a lot of future work here.

Say what you will about Brown, but the timing of this article smells. The timing and the motives are very obvious. This from a paper that withheld reporting the legal troubles of George Ryan until after the '98 elections and we saw what that brought. If Brown has more dirt, either he should print it...not just target Obama, but let's hear who the other politicians are who Rezko did business with. I'd like to know if my state rep is on that list. Other than Richard Roeper, the Sun-Times is now barely birdcage lining material.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

24. On the other side, Suntimes has been

pushing the story on Kjellander and other GOP thieves just as hard. In fact, the Suntimes has broken far more stories on corruption than the Chi. Tribune.

You realize that Bloggo's presidential committee is still intact and funded?

[KharmaTrain]

25. I Saw That On Chicago Tonight Last Week

My vote for Blago is for Pat Quinn. Wouldn't it be a delicious irony if he ends up at Governor one way or another.

I laughed when I heard Blago has people on his staff ready to launch his Presidential bid the day after the election and somehow even a 40% win will somehow vindicate him from scandals. What the hell is he smoking? But, on the other hand, if that means he'll exit the scene quicker, you won't hear me complaining.

I'm no fan of the Tribune either. We went with the Daily Herald after they took the tough position and endorsed Kerry in '04. The sad story here is how corrupt both parties are and the sorrid history of state politics...it's the Chicago patronage system on steroids.

Cheers...

[AngryAmish]

29. This is the best articulation of Illinois politics I have heard

(outside of Kass in the Tribune).

Illinois politics are an open sewer. You should see the scumbags up close. People get into politics to earn money. The money goes somewhere not directly connected to the political official but it goes.

I had to rent a government (Chicago Park District) venue yesterday. It went well, I put my deposit down and as part of the agreement I had to buy an insurance policy for the event. Fine. Then the event person tells me that everyone uses this one broker and they do things the smoothest. I made a joke asking how the insurance agent is connected to Mayor Daley. The person clams up, looks around if anyone was watching and says "I know nothing about that." It is hard to convey this over the internets but the person was scared and clearly not in the mood to joke about corruption. I have seen this many times talking with city, county and state officials.

This deal was scummy. That is the bottom line.

Don't get me started on the cushy job his wife got but, hey, that's Illinois politics.

[KharmaTrain]

36. A Machine Within A Machine Within A Machine

A lifelong friend owned a bar on the North Side...that was his description of the corruption he saw when he owned the place. If he wasn't being shaken down by the ward boss, it was the local Democratic organization or the state party...each with their hands side open for payoffs. Hell hath no fury if he turned down one of these visits or no sooner would there be inspectors crawling all over the place. Open sewer? Try several.

[Cosmocat]

32. From a distance ...

I have not quite understood the hype about Obama ... I like him a bit, but not near the hype ...

Meanwhile, over time, I have grown to have a pretty good appreciation for Durbin ... He does not seem to be a big self centered guy, is able to make really solid points in a coherent manner ... I personally mention him as a D I think is very strong when conversations come up about the quality of democratic office holders ...

[riderinthestorm]

11. Rezko's tied to the Rethugs just as heavily, including BFEE.

Rezko's going to quietly go away (if he ever comes back to the US to face charges) would be my guess since he's muddied up the pond on both sides of the aisle.

Besides, I'm not seeing this as a career ending bribe, in the scale of things. It's pretty neatly wrapped up to ensure there's no smell says this Illinoisan who's watched a LOT of dirty Illinois politics. Remember, the Clinton's NEVER faced a single moment of problem with the actual Whitewater deal - "Whitewater" covers the whole range of investigations that were spawned when the special investigator was appointed to go wild into the Clinton's private affairs. The land deal "Whitewater" was nothing.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

13. a WHOLE bunch of people hope Rezko slinks away.

somehow, I doubt that he will. Levine is talking - and he led to Rezko and others. If rezko cracks, watch for dozens in both parties to be in jail for a long, long time.

Starting with our governor, the former head of the GOP national party, and many more.

[riderinthestorm]

16. I just don't see Rezko coming back. He's going to be like that guy that Clinton pardoned

who was living the life of luxury in Switzerland, sorry, I can't remember his name.... The one pardon that got everyone's panties in a twist for about 3 seconds.

See? That's my prediction on Rezko....

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

19. Rezko is back in Illinois and he is presently out on bond.

I'm sure he surrendered to the Feds last week.

[riderinthestorm]

47. Thanks mohinoaklawn! I hadn't seen this news

I'm still not convinced that Obama is that dirty... yet. And as far as ILL politics goes this doesn't even smell.

[madokie]

15. where does all the Obama money come from?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

18. His wife tripled her salary recently.

and there are whispers that Stu Levine engineered that before his indictment. He also got a huge book deal after his convention speech.

[1932]

20. He'd already written one bestseller

and, after his convention speech, it was obvious that his next book was going to sell well.

What's he supposed to do? Accept less than the book is worth? Please.

People are going to buy and read his book, unlike those right wing books that publishers buy to pay off their propagandists. And Obama's book is going to be about progressive values too.

[1932]

22. He'd already written one bestseller

and, after his convention speech, it was obvious that his next book was going to sell well.

What's he supposed to do? Accept less than the book is worth? Please.

People are going to buy and read his book, unlike those right wing books that publishers buy to pay off their propagandists. And Obama's book is going to be about progressive values too.

[madokie]

23. nothing smells quite like a politician and nothing gets close to smelling like a rotten one

Anyways thanks for the heads up. Reminds me of this. A friend of mine bought a new wrench and proceeded to put the biggest socket on it and got down on a big assed bolt. I said damn Tom you just bought that ratchet and paid good money for it what are you doing trying to break it first rattle out of the box, he looked at me and said I want to see if it's any good before I grow to like it. pretty much sums it up for me.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

26. Can you explain to me how Stu Levine has anything to do

with Michelle Obama's job??

And so what if Barack got a "huge book deal after his convention speech". Let's face it, his keynote address at the Democratic convention made his name known to millions of Americans that had never heard of him outside of Illinois.

I don't know that much about Dan Brown. I don't buy the Sun-Times, but if there was something "there" about Barack Obama, I would think that both Chicago papers, especially the Trib, would be all over this.

[AngryAmish]

31. Stu Levin on the hospital board

The hospital board decides if new hospital facilities are built. Mrs. Obama got a job with...wait for it...University of Chicago Hospital. For tons of cash. U of C was just covering their rear to make sure that if they want to build in the future they have enough clout to get it done.

It was a scummy deal.

[GemMom]

48. The Sun-Times and the Trib

have very different editorial policies. Often their coverage of local politics is quite different. They are not lock-step by any stretch of the imagination.

[Jed Dilligan]

65. Pork-barrel fundraising

Good article in the latest Harper's about it.

[Buzz Clik]

27. Leave it to the Repukes -- another trashing of somebody not even up for election

Nice to see we have GOP mouthpieces right here at DU.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

28. I find that very insulting.

Talk about the uneducated making rash decisions and proclamations.

I happen to spend a lot of time and money supporting the Dems, not just locally. It pains me when Bloggo turns out to be a crook - because it hurts all democrats AND it hurts my state even worse. And when Obama has ties with a major corruption figure who bribes, controls and has questionable deals with both sides, you want me to stick my head in the sand, or you insult me by accusing me of being a GOP mouthpiece?

that is really bogus.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

30. One more question for you. Has Blago been indicted yet??

Funny, I haven't read or heard anything about that in any of the newspapers or the local TV/radio stations.

I'd like an answer to my questions, re: Stu Levine's influence on Michelle Obama's job and when exactly did Blago get indicted.

Don't get me wrong here, Blago's in deep trouble, whether he realizes it or not. He doesn't strike me as the sharpest knife in the drawer.

I've always gotten the impression that his "rise" in Democratic politics in the State of Illinois had an awful lot to do with his now "estranged" father-in-law, Alderman Richard Mell "helping hand" rather than his own abilities.

Don't you think it's rather suspicious that Dick Mell has really fallen off the radar in all of this?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. Mell has been told to sit this one out by Da mare and others.

The feds talked to him about his 40K for jobs statement. And Rezko's testimony may be the final nail in bloggo's coffin.

My neighbor and friend is connected with Cook County. Very connected. He has a pulse on stuff long before it hits the papers. he was the one who told me about Obama's wife before it ever hit the papers. Some in the state party were thinking of grooming her as a black Hillary. She is smart, educated, attractive, speaks well and would shatter another political spouse in a heartbeat (Libby Dole, I mean) But, then the papers got a hold of her "promotion" (the same job, the same responsibilities, 3 times the salary) and she herself apparently likes her hubby in the limelight, and not to be in it herself. Stu's fingers were in many pots. Not just hospital construction and licensing - there is that whole 200,000,000 in Teacher pensions that will haunt Levine, Bloggo, several top GOPers and others.

[never cry wolf]

64. Employer: Michelle Obama's raise well-earned

It appears as if she was vastly underpaid previously, according to the right leaning Trib.

WASHINGTON -- Officials at the University of Chicago Hospitals on Tuesday explained a large salary jump for Sen. Barack Obama's wife shortly after he took office as a normal promotion that reflected expanded duties in her job as a liaison with the South Side community surrounding the medical center.

Michelle Obama was promoted to vice president for external affairs in March 2005, two months after her husband took office in the Senate. According to a tax return released by the senator this week, the promotion nearly tripled her income from the hospitals from $121,910 in 2004 to $316,962 in 2005.


Hospitals spokesman John Easton said Obama's salary was in line with the compensation received by the not-for-profit medical center's 16 other vice presidents.

A tax return for the hospitals covering the 12 months ended June 30, 2005, shows most of the organization's vice presidents earning between $291,000 and $362,000.

snip----------

Easton said the hospitals' management had discussed a promotion to vice president with Obama previously but that she had been reluctant to undertake the commitment until her husband's Senate campaign was finished. In part, she wanted to wait until her family had made a decision on whether to maintain their primary residence in Illinois, which they did, and she had a better sense of the demands on her time as a senator's wife, he said.

At the time Obama was promoted to vice president, Easton added, she also had "at least one other, more lucrative offer" from a potential employer, though he declined to identify the competing organization.

snip---------

In explaining her salary increase, Easton and a spokesman for the senator both stressed her educational background, which includes an undergraduate degree from Princeton University and a law degree from Harvard.

Obama's new salary is significantly higher than her annual earnings during the seven prior years for which the Obamas have released their taxes. During those years, her wages ranged from a low of $50,343 in 1999 to a high of $121,910 in 2004.

After Obama's graduation from Harvard Law School in 1988, she worked for a few years as an associate at the corporate law firm Sidley Austin in Chicago. Such law practices typically pay lucrative salaries.

But after a few years, Obama moved into a series of positions in local government and non-profit organizations, which typically pay lower salaries.

more-------> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-0609270216sep27,1,2449989.story?coll=chi-politics-stories

Let's not let some facts get in the way, ok?

[Kerrytravelers]

67. Facts, schmacts. It's mudslinging season, don't ya' know!

:eyes:

I happen to like Obama. I'm not quiet about that. However, even politicians I'm not as crazy for- think Hilary- I still don't like the mudslinging. It's silly and only fodder filled with innuendo and gossip.

[Buzz Clik]

59. I intended no compliment.

If you were insulted...

:shrug:

We went through this shit over and again with the Clintons, Kerrys, Gores, until it's become background noise. If you want to toss this shit on the wall, go for it. I don't think it will stick.

You might ask yourself why you volunteered to be the messenger on this rumor.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

73. PAGE 2 of the second largest paper in Illinois is NOT NEWS?

How about we pick candidates that don't get caught up in crap with really sleazy scum like Rezko, Segal, Levine and other powerbrokers?

[ItNerd4life]

34. It's Illinois. Isn't this SOP?

Next we'll here about dead people voting for Chicago Democrats.

Sadly, Illinois politics is full of corruption. It won't go away until the voters (who aren't dead) vote for new candidates.

Rezko is poison, but I don't think this will really tarnish Barack.

[GemMom]

49. Or....

until the parties nominate some non-corrupt candidates for us to vote on.

[oc2002]

35. Obama is a slick slimey as they get.

He is not principled or moral, he is good at faking it though.

From now on he shall be reffered to ass Senator Rezzobama.

[jeffrey_X]

45. oh bull shit...

jesus...what a bunch of fucking sheep.

[GemMom]

51. The Rezco deal really stinks.

The Rezco house deal is bad, bad, bad. There is just no way to sugar coat it. Obama bought a house on the same day at $300,000 less than the asking price, while his buddy Rezco paid full price for vacant land adjacent to his property on the same day from the same owner and Obama wants us to think that is a coincidence.

Even Blagojovich isn’t that bold.

[elehhhhna]

57. IF that is so, he is over, and should be. (I SAID "IF", ya'll, so back off)

[never cry wolf]

71. Do you have a link?

Does a seller often get the asking price? and how do you know what the asking price was for each parcel?


The same day last year that Obama and his wife, Michelle, closed on a $1.65 million home, Antoin "Tony" Rezko's wife, Rita, closed on a $625,000 vacant lot next door, the Chicago Tribune reported in Wednesday's editions. Both lots had once been part of the same estate, but were listed for sale separately by the owner.

snip--------


Obama said he had discussed the home with Rezko, but didn't know when Rezko became interested in the vacant lot.

In January, Obama paid Rezko $104,500 for part of the lot to balance the space between his house and the fence.

"I told them if you can spare another 5 or 10 feet, I'd be happy to purchase it from you," Obama said. "They came back and said they could sell us up to 10 feet."

snip--------

Obama said he took special care to ensure any financial arrangements with Rezko were ethical, because Rezko was widely reported to be under investigation by a federal grand jury.

"My working assumption was that as long as I operated in an open, upfront fashion, and all the T's were crossed and I's were dotted, that it wouldn't be an issue," Obama said. "I haven't been involved with him in any legislative work whatsoever or any government activities of any sort."

more----> http://www.jg-tc.com/articles/2006/11/02/ap-state-il/d8l4cuv80.txt

By my math, assuming a 100' deep lot, Obama paid +/- 17% to Rezko for +/-12% of the neighboring lot, or $104.50/s.f. vs Rezko's purchase price of $73.53/s.f., a 42% surcharge. Hardly sounds like a sweetheart deal to me.

[hedgehog]

38. I want to see if Andrew Greeley's column picks up on this at all.

He usually tells it like it is. I would trust his comments more than anyone else's in this matter.

[AtomicKitten]

39. This is typical of the

less than brilliant tendency for Dems to shoot themselves in the foot, jumping on the trash-the-rising-star bandwagon. The orchestrated effort here at DU to do this guy in right out of the starting gate is beyond the pale, even for this place.

[Rosemary2205]

41. A rising star? Oh shit! Quick, someone beat him down.

God forbid the D's actually support and sustain their talent.

[Kerrytravelers]

44. So, so, so very typical.

I have yet to see the point of this thread. I see a lot of accusations and name calling, but really no links to credible sources proving any of this.

Yawn. More mud slinging.

[Buzz Clik]

60. No shit.

In Primary Colors the "Clinton" character hired some snoops to find whatever dirt they could to a) see what was there, b) see if it had legs, c) try to nip it in the bud and d) counter it before it went public. This piece of shit thread starts at e) start an unconfirmed rumor "for the good of the cause."

What bullshit. And the author of the OP has the nerve to pretend to be hurt when people are irritated.

[Kerrytravelers]

63. I wonder if he realizes that Obama isn't running for anything.

Or is this just the first in a planned series of pointless trashing?

Fun times ahead, I'm sure.


I'm all for honesty and not supporting dishonest, backhanded creeps that crawl out from under a rock. But what is the point in trashing Obama now? If something comes to light that is above innuendo, gossip and assumptions, then I'll listen to and consider the facts. But I've grown tired of this kind of whisper campaign. Really, really, really tired.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

76. yeah, saying he will run for president is immaterial.

totally unimportant. yeah, right.

[Kerrytravelers]

81. It's immaterial for the current election about to happen.

Sling away!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

84. i see. ignore everything but what happens in 5 days. SMART!

I gotta remember that plan next time something comes up. Brilliant. SUPERB!












bullshit.

[Kerrytravelers]

88. During election season, focus on the election at hand.

The information will still be available after the election.

Call bullshit all you want, and I'll continue to regard you as a mudslinger.

And now, with such brilliant repartee, I'm done. Flame away, have the last word, whatever you need to feel justified. But, you still look really silly slinging mud about someone who isn't even running when we're a few days out from an important election.

[RB TexLa]

43. After the book tour he'll stop talking about the white house n/t

[bobthedrummer]

46. One method of looking at the networks of corruption is geo-political

as well as by other methods.

As a sidebar to this, and a help to voters next week (I'm going straight Democratic btw) here are some regional links to how bad the networks of corruption are in this region.

"Connecting the networks of criminal conspiracies project"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=150x13493#top

And here is an overlooked yet possible related tragic story of the death of a prominent Republican businessman, PAC head and aviator from Wisconsin Michael F. Willie
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=186x16949

[Tiggeroshii]

50. So far it is pure speculation.

I can only hope nothing will come of this.

[lojasmo]

53. No fan of Obama's votes, but this story is a big ZERO EOM

[KoKo]

54. Interesting...thanks for the article. n/t

[RiverStone]

55. No. Obama 's star will only burn brighter! Yet...

As he publicly ponders a run at the pres, stories like this (meritless or not) will start coming out of the woodwork. He better get used to it. Part of the deal. Go Obama!

[Judi Lynn]

58. "AND is black?" What the hell does that mean?

I'm afraid this says more about you than you realize.

You stand out like a sore thumb. Ghastly. Odd. Strange!

[Kerrytravelers]

61. Doesn't it, though?

:eyes: And, here we go. Let the trashing begin.



P.S. There is an election on Tuesday and Obama isn't running. Neither is Kerry. Just saying.

[Buzz Clik]

62. bingo.

A little swiftboating less than a week before the election ... just in case the conversation was actually addressing the issues at hand.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

70. Do you really think that elections and race don't matter?

Are you kidding? Every election in Illinois, and cook, dupage, will, lake counties has something to do with race. To think otherwise is to really not understand this area. If you don't understand this area, you cannot fathom what is happening to Obama.

Chicago is 1/3 black 1/3 hispanic and 1/3 white and oriental. It holds 1/3 of Illinois population. There are shifting agreements to keep any one racial group from getting too much power and too much access to graft and political oxygen - ie money and more power.

RACE ALWAYS matters in some ways and matters not one bit in others. That is a fact, like it or not, because the politics and politicians make it so. Is it nice? no. Is it pretty? No. Is it lily white and clean? ha.

(By the way, If you have some suggestion or are casting some aspersion about my post, then please, don't beat around the bush. Tell it like it is. I happen to be married to a person of color and find any insults or statements about her race either A) offensive, or B) born out of ignorance and therefore a source of amusement for both of us. To accuse me of something I am not, though, well, grow up.)

Let's face facts. Race matters in many other parts of the country, too. Ford is dealing with an underlying anti-black sentiment that has survived reconstruction. I only wish more Dems would call that race like it is. Racist. Not just there, either. Of course race matters. Talk to any Oriental running for office in California, a first generation Hispanic running in Texas or a Black in Virginia or Ohio. Is it uncomfortable? You bet. Is it wrong? Sure, from many points of view. DOES IT EXIST? You betcha. And for you to suggest that simply mentioning race as a fact is in itself racist is naive and worse.

Now, let's look at Obama as the Dems in power here in Illinois do. Color is an advantage. It cuts across normal Hispanic-Black lines in surprising ways. 1/2 of Chicago and 1/3 of the suburbs are liberal. 1/3 of those areas are black. already, he has 2/3 of the vote, including the moderates (because the Gop usually runs racists like Alan Keyes or worse) and ends up carrying the state. Obama, an articulate, smart, and friendly face crosses all boundries without difficulty. In Illinois terms, he is the dream candidate. However. There are problems. I'll discuss those below.

A small, cold, accurate and unfortunate example about real hard-nosed, dirty, scummy political life in Illinois: We have serious gang problems in Chicago and the burbs. Every day, we have black and hispanic gangs beating on each other, aiming for larger drug turf on the south and southwest sides.Hell, they put the mafia out of business in many areas. Profits and control are really important, as is race. In summary, there are three distinct racial groups which may work closely together during the day, yet segregate, even fight at night. In some ways, ingrained racism exists here like no place else.

Yet, if a talented black runs for office, provides "jobs" and other services, AND FOLLOWS ORDERS, hispanics and whites are just as likely to vote for him/her so long as certain other office slots are maintained for their "race". Same goes for white and hispanic candidates, so long as you realize that one critical point. Countywide, we have a hispanic office (county clerk), a black office (county president), a polish office( clerk of the courts), an irish office (mayor) and other assignments that would make your head spin. I am not making this up. It is the nature of politics in Illinois. it applies in different ways as you head south, but he basic theory still applies.

Obama could and would have retained his senate office forever if he wished. Being found in bed with eiither a dead girl or a live boy might toss him out, but if he remained quiet, obedient, and played with the players, he was set for life. (that is not racist - it applies to all races and both sexes)

That all changed when he said he would run for president. All he had to do is pay homage to sugar daddy and keep his nose clean. It matters not what race or sex he is. The only question was would he play ball? Once he turned national, all bets were off. No longer do the Illinois corrupting forces have control over the guy. It is like they saw their entire investment pissing away.

There are some sugar daddies who compete with each other to see which pols they can buy or influence. Before his conviction, Segal from Northshore Insurance concentrated on aldercreatures, and county office holders. It was worth MILLIONS to him. Stu Levine played with the GOP and Dem leadership equally. Ditto on the millions. Kjellander, the former head of the National GOP, is one of the worst offenders. Again, millions in personal gain at stake. Rezko played heavily in both camps, to his personal benefit and enrichment. His biggest success and failure is our current D governor. All these guys are/were players. They invest in the futures of pols like investment bankers invest in IPOs, stocks and bonds. The problem is that the entire system is so corrupt and filthy, that they compete to buy the souls of up and coming prospects. And if you dare to get off the reservation, you are done for.

Former Senator Peter Fitzgerald is a great example. not a very bright man, but an OK lawyer, a rich family and a STRONG indie streak. He ran and won the US senate seat that Obama now holds. He is also responsible for Patrick Fitzgerald (no relation) being here and indicting crooked pols. Why did Peter lose? He was a moderate GOP, affable, and inoffensive man, there were no skeletons in his closet. He did not break the law. Except, he broke the most important one. He refused to be beholden to Rezko, Levine, Daley, Madigan, Kjellander, and many others on both sides of the aisle. He truly was independent, and therefore uncontrollable, and therefore, he had to go. And they forced him out. He was off the reservation, especially on the billion dollar O'hare expansion project.

Obama is close to being off the reservation. It automatically happens when you get too big for your britches and start thinking independently. The sugar daddies here really think that they own you. and they will prove it, when necessary. Am I convinced that Obama is dirty? no. Is he foolish to accept a deal that stinks from the first glance? Yup. Does it tie him in to the worst of the worst corruption in Illinois. We may never know. But it is enough to ask more questions. Serious questions. and they will not end with his presidential campaign. To the contrary, they will only begin.

[Buzz Clik]

72. Perhaps you could tell a bunch of us exactly why you posted this...

... and particularly now.

Obama is running for nothing. The little scandal you're reporting seems like a bunch of nothing. We're less than a week away from a huge, huge election, and you're looking for warts on Obama's butt?

This sounds like intentional distraction and disruption. If you have some other motivation, I'd like to hear it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

75. simple. He announced that he will run for president.

It is the political season that leads to 08 like no other. AND that makes it a matter of life or death for our nation.
I actually like Obama. My spousette wants him as president. Still, the issue is does he have ties to one of the most corrupting influences in Illinois politics?
That is always timely.

I don't know about you, but my primary wish is for our country to prosper, be safe and to provide everyone with a good life. There are many elements of the Democratic party that want the same thing. But there are others, spineless, unwilling to stand up to spin, sin and lies, and they wrought disgusting things like the Patriot Act and the Military Commisions Act. I have the highest hopes for the Democrat (sic) party, because up here in the north, it has had our best interests at heart. I draw the line when the Democratic candidate is bent or criminal. Because that does our country and our party no good. Case in point. Governor Rod Blagojevich.

Our Party is not with absolutely clean hands. When Hillary states that she totally supports the Iraqnami quagmire, i grind my teeth. When others try to claim the religious right "muddle" ground, instead of more liberal, honest and better positions, I start looking for dental surgeons.
Right now, just as many issues are being flushed out with this election, Obama has been promoted as the flavor of the week. Could he do well? Hell, he would be an outstanding president compared to the shrub. But, could he be elected? It depends on just how close he is to Rezko. If there is too much mutual admiration and contact, Obama is dead as a national candidate. That is how bad Rezko is.

now, are you suggesting that a breaking story, covered on page 1 and 2 of the "liberal" paper in Chicago is NOT worthy of notice and comment? Are you suggesting that the Democrats here do the same thing as the Military in Iraqnam, and stifle all bad news with spin and bullshit? Are you saying that there are times that truth and difficult issues are not worthy of discussion here? pray tell, explain yourself and the real point of your question.
So, you wish that we censor stories just like the White House, the DOD and others? where is the honesty and morality in that? Because, more than anything, I hope that the Democrats carry that message more than any other one. We are honest, we have integrity, and we have the highest standards for our candidates.

[greatauntoftriplets]

79. He has not announced that he is running for president.

He announced that he will explore the possibility of running for president.

Big semantic difference there. Guess you can't wait to get in on the swiftboating.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

86. oh give me an effin break.

the second you announce an interest,



oh come on. don't be so naive.

[greatauntoftriplets]

87. I am hardly naive....

I have seen many potential candidates explore running...and deciding not to.

Personally, I hope Obama runs. I'd also go for him as the VP candidate.

So, since you dislike him so much...if he is the candidate, would you vote for the Republican?

Get used to it, in other words.....

And stop the goddamned swiftboating. It is bad enough when it comes from Republicans. But absolutely reprehensible when it comes from a so-called Democrat.

[Bucky]

78. I think "black" refers to his race--sometimes called African-American. It's interesting...

It matters because Obama is one of those politicians for whom race seems to be an asset (it seems to be working against Harold Ford in Tennessee). It's part of his story, part of the compelling part of his story, that he is such a strong exempler of the American Dream. It's validating to see that for some, if not yet for all, African-Americans the Dream can be realized.

I suppose if you work really hard you can find a way to be offended by this observation. But I don't think you should try.

[Bluebear]

66. 'good-looking, articulate, and educated man' AND he's black!

Wow.

[Kerrytravelers]

68. Bwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:rofl:

Now, if only he were female and gay! We'd have everything rolled into one! :bounce:

[FrenchieCat]

69. Sounds like a description of my husband!

and Hubby's decided not to run for President, or will hold off on announcing till after the '06 elections! After that, guess if he's got any "land deal" scandal out there, we'll have a couple of years to straighten them all out! :eyes:

[Frank Cannon]

74. The only folks I hear high on Obama are repubs and the MSM

So far, I haven't heard a single liberal/progressive friend of mine sing his praises. He's only been in office two years, for crying out loud. I can't even tell you a single positive thing that he's done. And yet I hear plenty of noise from the mainstream media that he is the Dems' next candidate for POTUS.

Maybe I'm just TOO jaded, but this whole Obama furor seems manufactured to me. If the MSM is trying so hard to sell it, then I just ain't buying it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

77. I Ask That You Please Refrain From Swiftboating Our Good Senators With Hyped Up

and alarmist sentiments that have no basis in reality.

Reading this article, I have no reason to believe Obama has done a thing wrong whatsoever. I'm not sure why you felt motivated to post something that assassinates the character of one of our most stand up Senators. I'd ask that in the future if you choose to do so, please do so a bit more accurately and with a lot more substantial evidence to bolster the attack.

Thanks.

[Buzz Clik]

80. ditto. I'm done with this thread.

[Kerrytravelers]

82. I am with you, OPERATIONMINDCRIME.

This is a very sorry thread, indeed.

I will be bookmarking this and referring back in the future as smearing and swift-boating continues on various Democrats.

[B2G]

83. Sorry thread?

Are you insane? This is one of the most fascinating discussions about Illinois politics I've read in quite some time.

Hat tip to the OP!

[Kerrytravelers]

89. Insane. Interesting you'd be name calling.

Funny, that.


Edit to add: In fact, after doing a quick search, your only other real recent thread was another outrage for you. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php

[WI_DEM]

85. Don't bet on it