so do you think Minn. National guard guys thought up that sign...

[MnFats]

...all on their own?
somehow that doesn't add up.
personally i think this is probably the long arm of Karl Rove at work...

if you haven't seen it, check wcco.com

i ain't reprinting it here; it has the stench of Rove.

[Greeby]

1. Whaddya know, Freepers who actually signed up

:eyes:

[cautiouslywaiting]

2. You're right

Nothing happens in this country without the permission of Karl Rove. I know he's behind this.

[WCGreen]

3. All ideology aside....

It was funny, something a mess of guys and gals with not much else to do would come up with...

Lighten up...

What you are really saying there is that the Minn. National Gaurd is far to ignorant to understand Irony....

[Buzz Clik]

7. I agree. Sounds like something I'd have done at that age.

There's no reason to think these soldiers are too stupid to think of an "up yours" message to a politician.

Think about these young people -- they have families they haven't seen in months. They're in a dangerous place. Yet, politicians on both sides are using them as political footballs. On the right: Bush refuses to back down from his stay-the-course approach. Rumsfeld ignores requests for more troops. The dead and wounded are quietly - secretly - evacuated. Tours of duty extended. On the left: A few devastated parents of dead soldiers claim their children died for nothing. Death tolls are used as a political weapon with no regard for who died. Democratic politicians declare the war as founded on deception and unwinnable.

And then John Kerry makes news for saying that you're stuck in Iraq because you couldn't make it in school.

Will these kids put up a banner telling Bush he's a power hungry stubborn idiot? That Rummy is clueless and doesnt' give a shit about them? Or do they lash out at someone who is being hammered by both sides?

[WCGreen]

19. I think they would be charged with insubordiation if they

cast stones at Rumsfield or Bush...

[spoony]

37. That does seem to be the implication n/t

[Tempest]

4. It is very much suspicious

The picture came out too soon after Kerry's statement to have been done by the soldiers in Iraq.

The banner was a set-up by someone, and it wasn't the troops.

[cali]

8. The lengths people go to to fit

events into their world view is extraoardinary. Of course it wasn't too soon; many of the troops do have access to the internet not to mention radio and TV. And there's no reason on earth why the troops couldn't have come up with this on their own.

[progressivebydesign]

11. Oh but Rush Limbaugh is piped in daily via OUR Armed Forces Radio! n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

15. Limbaugh is piped in, as in "sewer pipe".

[Tempest]

12. So let me get this straight

You're in a combat zone getting shot at and blown up, but all you can think about is getting together the material and creating a banner because of something someone said just an hour or two ago without any egging on from an outside source (like OxyRush).

Right...

[cali]

18. I didn't say they weren't

influenced by something like a rush disinformation campaign. I said that there's no reason why they couldn't have come up with this stunt. You indicated, not that their actions were influenced, but that they were controlled by others. BIG difference.

[Tempest]

20. Put words in people's mouths much?

I made no such indication.

Also, it appears the photo isn't real and may have been photoshopped. It's being investigated by several DUers.

[cali]

22. Talk about dishonest:

Here's what you said in the initial post I responded to:

"It is very much suspicious
The picture came out too soon after Kerry's statement to have been done by the soldiers in Iraq.

The banner was a set-up by someone, and it wasn't the troops."


And in this one:

"Also, it appears the photo isn't real and may have been photoshopped. It's being investigated by several DUers."


Pathetic. And I'm willing to make a serious bet that the photo is real.

[spoony]

41. Soldiers do often have downtime

Otherwise there wouldn't be so much demand for x-boxes and Madden football, DVDs, etc.

[cwydro]

27. there were several threads on this

yesterday...it seems pretty obvious it wasn't taken in Iraq...

[11 Bravo]

13. Check out the leafless deciduous trees in the photo.

Apparently Autumn came WAY early in Iraq this year. Or ...

[Tempest]

16. Where was the picture taken then?

According to the freepers, it was taken in Iraq.

[BrotherBuzz]

17. ABC also says it was taken in Iraq

Without citing sources, ABC News in Washington said the photograph was taken by Minnesota guardsmen in Talil, several hundred miles south of Baghdad, where members of the unit are located. They are members of The 1st Brigade, 34th Infantry Division.

[Carni]

28. Tallil-- I may have spelled that wrong

You'd have to google it in conjunction with Minnesota national guard because I am not sure of the spelling.

[Libby2]

5. Nope, I sure don't. n/t

[liberal N proud]

6. It was appeared too quickly for the troops to create and distribute

I wondered when I saw it, if the picture was actually taken in IRAK or even if it was a photo-shop.

Here is a counter for that, Those troops have enough time to make banners like that, maybe they should be "Winning" the war.

[The Straight Story]

40. Have to disagree, it was not too fast, and here is why

On 9/11, before the towers even fell, I had a huge sign I painted and hung from balcony. Only took me a few minutes to think it up and paint it.

Add a digital camera to the mix, and the internet, and several people and you can come up with something pretty darn quick and have it all over the globe.

Our troops are well trained, efficient, and work well as a team. This would have been easy for em.

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. They probably had Bush spellcheck it.

[lies and propaganda]

10. well, no matter who came up with it....

it basically proves the joke.

[Whoa_Nelly]

14. Looks totally photoshopped

Pic from news video here:
http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_306093254.html

The soldiers legs do not all match up to their upper bodies.

The banner looks too white as compared to rest of photo composite.

The guy on the left looks a lot like the reverse of the guy standing on right in this pic:

http://www.give2thetroops.org/gallery9.htm

And if you watch the video, the close-in of the MN flag in background right stands out incongruent with the lighting of overall photo.

May be Rove, may be a freep photoshop.

Something about the overall photo does not stand true.

[Mugu]

21. I read and reread your op,

and I truly hope that you don’t mean what it appears that you’re saying. “…all on their own?” sounds to me that you are saying that military folks couldn’t possibly have thought of a banner mocking a politician that reportedly called them stupid without instructions from Karl Rove?

You’re welcome to believe anything you want, but if you’re going to say this in public, please tell people that you’re a Republican.


Regards,

Mugu

[MnFats]

24. mugu, with 87 posts to your credit, you ain't been here long enough ...

...to call me Republican.
/...you want references?
....Republican, I am not.

[Mugu]

31. Perhaps I wasn’t clear; I didn’t call you a Republican.

I said that if you were going to make offensive remarks in public about our troops do the rest of us a favor and don’t tell people that you’re a Democrat. We have an election to win.

As to the number of posts, it’s true that I don’t post much, but I’m here every day and have been for a couple of years and for quite some time before I joined. I find that I learn more from reading than from writing and just reading prevents me saying something stupid. However, on occasion when somebody says something insulting I do feel a need.

Okay, I explained my low post count, now perhaps you can tell us about your experiences in the military.


Regards,

Mugu

[spoony]

39. It doesn't take 1000+ posts...

to figure out how bloody dumb your OP was. Either your opinion of your states' NG stinks or your communication skills do.

[spanone]

23. Don't know but CNN just LOVES it. Can't show it enough. Whoring bastards.

[Carni]

25. No, I don't

I also find it odd that they would have supplies handy to make the banner--it's not like they can run out to the nearest Micheals for craft items.

I think the same PR guys who helped bushit with his plastic Thanksgiving turkey had a hand in this deal.

Call me a cynic!

[Supersedeas]

26. Mission Accomplished - complete with uniforms (no jumpsuits): but no Boehner

banners to be found....odd???

[Chiyo-chichi]

29. Why aren't they being censured instead of having their picture shown on national TV?

http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/milpolitics.htm

Federal Law (Titles 10, 2, and 18, United States Code), Department of Defense (DOD) Directives, and specific military regulations strictly limit a military active duty person's participation in partisan political activities.

While these do not speak specifically to this incident, active duty personnel CANNOT:

Allow or cause to be published partisan political articles signed or written by the member that solicits votes for or against a partisan political party, candidate, or cause.

Display a large political sign, banner, or poster (as distinguished from a bumper sticker) on the top or side of a private vehicle.

Participate in partisan political management, campaigns, or conventions (except as a spectator when not in uniform), or make public speeches in the course thereof.

Use contemptuous words against the officeholders described in 10 U.S.C. 888 (10 U.S.C. 888 lists the following officeholders: President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which the military member is on duty).

*********

Did U.S. taxpayers pay for that paint, banner, and their time? Active duty personnel are not supposed to use contemptuous words against members of Congress? They can't display anything larger than a bumper sticker on their private vehicle, but these fools are allowed to pose with a banner in front of U.S. Army vehicles and show disrespect to a U.S. Senator while in uniform??

If it's real... I think an investigation is in order. Maybe a weekend in the brig... or at least (that's right) an apology.

[Mugu]

32. I don’t believe for a moment that this has anything to do with politics.

The men and women are just poking fun at a politician that used them for the butt of a joke (even if unintended.) They probably don’t even know or care which party he’s in.

As for time in the brig. They’re in a war zone with people trying to kill them day-in and day-out, I think they’ve paid ahead.


Regards,

Mugu

[Chiyo-chichi]

35. You're right about the brig. I was out of line.

They have paid ahead.
Still, I'd like to imagine their CO chewing them out.

[Chiyo-chichi]

36. You're right about the brig. I was out of line.

They have paid ahead.
Still, I'd like to imagine their CO chewing them out for showing disrespect to a member of Congress. I've never served, but my research leads me to believe that is against regulations.

[Carni]

33. If it WAS legit they had a right to respond

I wouldn't actually say that was *partisan* per say...I mean if the troops wanted to act and put that banner together to respond then they have every right to respond to what they believed Kerry said (JMO)

My issue with this is that I find it odd that a white banner that large would just happen to be hanging around a base ready to receive paint.

I have tried to find material that large for signs in the past for business purposes and it's not exactly easy.

[Chiyo-chichi]

38. The banner could be recycled. It could say just about anything on the other side.

Just a possibility that they painted the message on the back.

[Carni]

42. I guess that could be the case

I just keep thinking of that Saddam statue and the Chalabi people and the whole Jessica Lynch staged rescue etc etc...this admin has screwed around so many times with cheap PR stunts that it's hard to say who is doing what, but point taken.

[ContraBass Black]

30. Why? Some soldiers read, and some of them make fun of Democrats.

How does their thinking of it without help not add up?

[Carni]

34. The thinking it up isn't my hang up

I don't doubt that our troops are capable of coming up with a sign and an opinion (Good God I don't doubt that)this isn't about their intelligence...my issue is the banner material. It seems as odd thing to have hanging around. The bush PR machine has come up with so many other bogus PR stunts that one can never be quite sure of what is legit and what isn't. It may be exactly what it appears to be but I remain skeptical.

[knitter4democracy]

43. I just got that in an e-mail.

It finally got me to e-mail back to take me off her e-mail list. I went off about it, and I hope she doesn't take it the wrong way (we go to church together), but it was the wrong thing on the wrong day.