Is it even possible to re-educate a freeper?

[begin_within]

Especially when he is 46 years old, owns 120 guns, and was tearing down McGovern signs in his neighborhood at the age of 12? This is a person I have been friends with for 15 years, and we have enough in common to be friends, but we are polar opposites on political issues. He loves to discuss everything, including politics, but I won't even open my mouth if the subject of politics (or even current events) comes up. I just clam up until he starts talking about something else. I had thought for a while that I might be able to talk some sense into him, but I am wondering if it is possible for him to change any of his beliefs. Arianna Huffington was once a conservative, right?

[Union Thug]

1. Not without calling Dr. Frankenstein n/t

[3waygeek]

38. AKA the new president of the

California Medical Association.

[XNASA]

2. Re-educate?

:shrug:

[Kerrytravelers]

4. One can only re-educate when there was a first education.

At age 12, he sounds pretty much like a kool-ade drinker.


Good luck! :hi:

[dkofos]

3. If you can manage to extricate the head from the rectum it

might be possible.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. No.

They've outlawed the practice of lobotomies.

[RobertSeattle]

6. Just avoid politics and be yourself around him

Seems like so many "Freepers" have a mythical "liberal" constructed in their minds - created by years of listening to Limbaugh and Hannity creating Strawman liberals out of whole cloth. Once Mr. Freeper realizes the "liberals" are normal people, maybe he'll question some of the myths in his own head.

[unpossibles]

13. I wish that were true

my experience with freepers who know me and with whom I've "discussed" things on other boards still see things as black or white. if you are different from them, that means you are the exact opposite.

What's funny is, one guy is always going on about how liberals are elite and intellectual snobs, yet we're also too stupid to think for ourselves and he's the only one smart enough to understand world politics. I've pointed out to him the rather obvious problem with his logic and he just ignores it.

that and about every other nuance in the world. Because I stand up for my rights, he always claims I am a communist, hate America, hate money, am a hypocrite, a slave to George Soros, etc.

The best part is, he claims to be a Libertarian, yet defends every single authoritarian thing this administration has done.

[RobertSeattle]

20. Yep - "I'm not a Republican - I'm more a Libertarian" is the new escape clause.

The other meme I think is funny is basically "The Republicans really really really really really really really really suck - but Democrats would be worse" - Right.

[unpossibles]

29. exactly

I have been arguing against the "but they're all the same" thing for the last few weeks with friends. While I don't think the Dems are perfect or above reproach (when someone breaks the law or is corrupt, i don't check who they align with before I get angry), they are so much better than the Republicons that it is laughable to suggest otherwise.

I cannot fathom how they could be worse even if they were the "socialist, satan worshiping, forcing-everyone-to-be-gay, elitists" that the freepers claim they are, and which they aren't.

Then I remember: taxes. The one thing that makes people vote against their best interests is the promise of fulfilling their greedy little dreams of being rich someday. They don't care if others' children have to pay it back. They don't care if others' children have to die. They don't care if we all die in our own filth on a barren rock in the middle of the risen ocean.

They don't think they should have to pay taxes to receive the benefits of living in America. Just don't spread the wealth (beyond their own pockets). It makes me sick. Greed kills.

[tenshi816]

31. "liberals are elite and intellectual snobs,

yet we're also too stupid to think for ourselves"

That's similar to their belief that liberals are wealthy elites on one hand, but on the other are unemployed and live in Mom's basement (or are on welfare living in an urban ghetto somewhere).

[rhiannon55]

7. Nope

Not possible.

[Lost-in-FL]

8. Conservatism

Is a genetic disorder.

[shain from kane]

9. Why bother trying to put lipstick on a pig? Not worth the effort. n/t

[Kierkegaard]

10. What do you mean by 're?'

Sounds to me like he wasn't educated to begin with.

To answer your question, anyone can be educated if they are receptive. In my experience, people who are in the state that your friend finds himself are beyond reach. They are not swayed by facts or even elementary precepts of common sense. They are always right, despite any evidence to the contrary.

Best advice? Stick your toe in the water and gauge his reaction...

[louis-t]

11. Not since they outlawed electo-shock therapy.

[Birthmark]

12. Yes, but you need fire - and lots of it!

[snacker]

14. No, it would be waste of time and energy. n/t

[frustrated_lefty]

15. Some mental defects are irreparable.

[Chef]

16. Education of a Freeper

Unfortunately, in America especially, politics is not an intellectual exercise. It is more a gut level "truthiness" thing that defies the application of logic. It's more a reptilian brain thing and the only thing that has any impact is when the truth of a thing makes the Freeper reevaluate their survivor modus operandi. If they loose their job or some other fate befalls them that they are forced to start thinking "wow that's not working for me, Why?"

The only way you can get through is with a cult or drug intervention specialist who can deprogram them.. If it were something that the use of logic could reverse, we would have universal health care and Bush would be living in a cardboard box somewhere.

[unpossibles]

32. If they loose their job or some other fate befalls them...

...they might just blame it on those damn Wiccan Gay Mexicans taking their jobs!

sorry.

[AllegroRondo]

17. The only thing that can change him is harsh reality

if he were to lose his job, health care, and be forced to live on the street for a couple months, that might do it.

[warrens]

18. A few months of waterboarding might work...

Otherwise, no.

[Mabus]

19. Not until something happens

Freepers change their tunes only when they are personally and detrimentally affected. A former RW neighbor of mine had a bunch of "pro-life" and GOP stickers on his car. That changed when his granddaughter came to live with him to go to school and became pregnant. All of a sudden abortion wasn't such a bad thing and the bumperstickers came off the car.

[begin_within]

21. Unfortunately with him, the opposite has happened.

He told me since he grew up in the 1960s (like me) he was exposed to the civil rights movement, Martin Luther King, Jr., the whole thing, and he says he was not racist at all, and held nothing against African-Americans. Then he bought a house in a predominantly African-American neighborhood in Altadena, California, and in 3 years he lived there, his house was broken into 8 times. He used this fact to start hating African-Americans, or so he says.

[Mabus]

25. I guess I didn't make myself clear or chose a bad example

I was thinking of GOP'ers like Dan Burton who started asking questions about connections between vaccinations and autism after his grandchildren suffered adverse effects from vaccines. http://www.vaccinationnews.com/dailynews/July2002/OpeningStatement27.htm

[begin_within]

34. I see what you mean - when an issue hits you personally, that can change

your whole viewpoint on things.

[Mabus]

37. Yep

Sometimes people don't really understand something until it happens to them, that is, until they are forced to contend with the very situation that they previous condemned. All of us do it to varying degrees. How many times have you said to yourself or to someone else, "I didn't think I'd ever say/do/think a certain thing/way." We don't really know how strong our beliefs or convictions are until they have been tested.

Ten years ago when my mom was dying, some of our relatives were against her decision when she signed her "do not resucitate" paperwork. Once they saw her, and talked to her, they understood her wishes and stopped fighting us about it. Mom had cancer. She had cancer of the stomach, the ilium, the colon and it was spreading. She was in constant pain. She had lost more than half her weight and couldn't sit up without assistance. She had trouble eating and slipped in and out of comas for months. They saw her, they talked to her and they changed their minds.

[Canuckistanian]

22. What, like teaching Pavlov's dog to NOT salivate at the bell?

I suppose it's possible with heavy doses of drugs combined with electroshock therapy.

[verse18]

23. You have to deprogram the brainwashed. n/t

[leftofthedial]

24. only with prolonged torture

(just for the hell of it) and then euthanasia (because it's necessary for the good of the species and the planet)

[Seen the light]

26. Absolutely!

I don't know about your friend specifically, but you're reading the post of a re-educated freeper right here! :hi:

This re-educated freeper just finished filling out his absentee ballot voting straight Democrat.

Keep in mind though that I turned while in college, not when I was 46. :)

[unpossibles]

30. awesome, Welcome!

change "impossible" to "difficult"

:D

[Porcupine]

27. Never try and teach a pig to sing, it wastes your time and annoys the pig. n/t

.

[Tyo]

28. For a lot of people it's more like a religion than a political conviction

I think he's been "firm in the faith" for too long for you to change him. Facts and reason are not usually very effective in the face of the need to believe.

[begin_within]

35. It is, you're right, it's very much like a religion, based on general beliefs

about how society should be structured and the purpose of organizations and governments. It's based on beliefs that the person acquired through their own upbringing as well as their education and later life experiences. So you're right.

[distantearlywarning]

33. An old boss of mine used to say:

"Never try to educate an asshole. All you end up with is an asshole who thinks he's educated."

[dysfunctional press]

36. "Re"- educate???

doesn't that imply some sort of initial education?

[benEzra]

39. The guns are irrelevant...

only half of gun owners are repubs, and tons of DU'ers own guns:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1689245

I'd ask, is he someone whom you can carry on a logical conversation with? Or is he someone who lets other people tell him what to think?

What stereotypes does he have of non-repubs? You might be able to gently correct some of those stereotypes, not only by talking to him about them, but by showing him that you don't fit them.

He's apparently a gun enthusiast? Offer to go shooting with him, challenge a stereotype. (Do you own guns yourself?) Not every Dem is a Dianne Feinstein clone who wants to ban his AR-15 and his SKS. Show him.

What issues are important to him? What issues aren't?

[begin_within]

40. The gun issue is the one thing that he says ties him to the republicans so

strongly. Also taxes, he says he always votes to lower taxes. He moved from California to Florida partly to get away from the gun laws in California, and he is always saying things like "fucking liberal Democrats in California who don't want me to have any guns... fucking Ted Kennedy and his liberal Democrat friends... bla bla bla...." He is a person I can carry on a logical and interesting conversation with, and he makes me laugh on a regular basis (intentionally) but when it comes to politics, it's like we belong to 2 different religions that are diametrically opposed to each other.

[benEzra]

41. California's gun laws do pretty much suck...

California's gun laws do pretty much suck--possession of a rifle stock with a handgrip that sticks out can make you a felon--and it is true (sadly) that some prominent California Dems (coughFeinsteincough) and Senator Kennedy have tried to pass similar bans nationwide. I think it might be something in the water in California--Ahnold the Governator is also a ban-more-guns zealot, so it's not just a Dem thing. The thing is, Feinstein and Kennedy do NOT represent the Democratic party at large on the gun issue, even though they might like to pretend to.

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What?

If I lived in California, I'd have to move too, as half the guns my wife and I own are banned there.

[Earth_First]

42. Apparently it is for some...

Confession Time. I used to be a Freeper.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2571023

[MoonRiver]

43. 3 types of freepturds

and their %ages in the Freeper population:

Educable - about 1%
Trainable - about 2%
Hopelessly delusional - 97%

Maybe you'll get lucky and he'll fall in the tiny minority. If it were me, I wouldn't even bother trying to educate or train one of these losers.

[moondust]

44. You'll need a professional exorcist.

They can be expensive.

[rainbow4321]

45. They can't handle stats/facts--it messes up their "beautiful minds"

My repuke co worker and I got into a heated discussion. Something about the war was on TV and I mentioned the 100+ soldiers who died in one month. He started saying "they want to kill us" so we are fighting them over there, blah, blah, blah.
Um, ok, so why the hell are we not invading/attacking N Korea..you know, where the real WMD's are, not the one's W lied about.
No one died when Clinton lied, I tell him
"Not that we know of, anyway" he says <??????>

Him: "At least the women in Iraq are better off now"
Me: "Like the ones in Afghanistan that can't go to school even though we invaded them w/ our "democracy" FIVE years ago? Did you know that an Afghan official says that 85% of the kids can't even attend school because of the violence and that they've lost a whole generation of kids being educated?"
Him: "At least 15% can, that's probably more than before"
Me: "if it's women's rights you're talking about then I guess we need to invade Saudi Arabia next, they can't go out alone, can't drive, can't show their faces/bodies, have no rights in their own country".

Him: <mumbles, mumbles--no real response. Slithers away out of the breakroom>.
(Other employee in the room with us looking as if he wants to hide under the table during the heated exchange)

Typical response whenever I try to "educate" one of them.

[earth mom]

46. I'm skeptical that it's possible for freepers to change.

Okay, maybe an extremely small percentage can be deprogrammed, but the rest of em will have to learn the hard way (if they ever do), that they are wrong because their brains are so closed it's impossible to get through to them. I say that because they are STILL in denial about their leader * after 6 years of things like Katrina, the Bankruptcy Bill, the Torture Bill, Posse Comitatus and oh yeah those little Nuke Secrets * & Co put on the web!

DELIBERATELY & ARROGANTLY CLUELESS does not begin to describe freepers! :grr:

[MadHound]

47. Yes, you can, and it is a worthwhile endeavor.

After all, we absolutely have to continue to pull votes from the conservatives, otherwise we continue to lose. Yes, it takes time, patience, and can be a pain at times. But it is a worthwhile endeavor. I've been successful in doing this with some of my conservative neighbors, so you should be able to sway you friend.

[Warren Stupidity]

48. 're'? One has to be educated to be re-educated. nt.

[Bassic]

49. 120 guns?

The guys owns 120 guns? WTF does somebody need 120 guns for? Personnal protection? :sarcasm: