Dear Gay folks, please forgive us during these outtages, some are ignorant

[symbolman]

I'd like to be the first to apologise to the gay folks here and everywhere if I make comments that sound condescending to gay people while I make fun of the hypocrisy of the Outtages we are seeing Re: Haggard/Foley, etc.

I don't like seeing some of the comparisons going on, I've had plenty of gay pals and loved them to death.

BUT, at times I've said things to them that they felt were very ignorant and mean, and it wasn't my intention. They graciously forgave me for my ignorance, an I'm thankful for that.

Being straight I don't KNOW a lot of what the gay lifestyle involves, or some of the history, and I make mistakes. I've done the same with my black brothers. And women's rights. We've all been taught some intolerance and spend our lives trying to undo that teaching if we want to grow.

I HOPE that people don't associate all this CORRUPTION with the fact that some of these men were gay, whether they wanted to admit it or not. It's not the Gay Aspect of their lives, it's the Hypocrisy, same as if Bush makes a statement that he'll leave no child behind then doesn't fund it.

I want you to know that I have nothing but respect for many gay people (not the idiots or assholes which you find in every group), and feel sad that they are connected with this latest outing of corruption.

I think that many people here feel the same way. We love you, and we want you to feel safe and garner respect with all you contribute to society.

Like one of my black friends said when I asked him what he thought of the Black Issue. He said it wasn't an ISSUE to him. I loved that.

Welcome to the Democratic party, looks like it's a LOT safer to be a Democrat if you are gay, don't you agree? :)

Once again, if I trip up, I am sorry.

[Libby2]

1. I agree.

I'm laughing at the hypocrisy.

[rzemanfl]

2. Well said. What is being exposed is rampant hypocrisy for

the sake money and power and all they bring.

[Harper_is_Bush]

3. I have no idea what you just apologized for

:shrug:

[symbolman]

7. Pre-emptive ignorance

and excitement over Haggard, mentioning Foley, being Rude to gay people.

Don't you worry that maybe all these stories with corruption and Gay people aren't worrisome to regular Gay folks, afraid of being painted as child molestors because of guys like Foley, by the general public?

I'm not so knowledgeable about the gay lifestyle, and don't want to insult them with a Homophobic remark, and some others ARE saying these things, so I'm apologising for them too I guess.

If you don't have a problem then why post? Bored?

[Harper_is_Bush]

17. If I don't have a problem why post?

WTF?

You're apologizing for "excitement over Haggard" and "mentioning Foley", assuming these things are a slur to gay people.

You repeatedly say you don't have any knowledge about gays, yet you presume to apologize for what you think is the "ignorance" of others.

Who has been ignorant towards gays on DU?

[symbolman]

23. Maybe some gay folks

can enlighten this guy?

[Sapphocrat]

39. I sincerely doubt it.

But thank you for your effort here, symbolman. It's appreciated.

Uh... Could you stop using the word "lifestyle" when you really mean LGBT lives? Like your black friend said, it's not an "issue" to him; well, here's one of your gay compatriots saying, it's not a "lifestyle" to us.

Thanks. :)

[readmoreoften]

37. Search the posts from the last 3 weeks and type in "gay"

see what you get.

Apparently a faction (small-medium sized, but persistent and aggressive) thinks that we are the cause of lost elections, that we are twice as wealthy as heterosexuals (RW propaganda), and that (as Bill O'Reilly would put it) we should just shut up. There was a long and painful cage match set up that pitted gays against African-Americans and minimized the violence against GLBT people. It's gone on and on. A bunch of ignorant nonsense has been said (since the NJ decision, mainly)

[NMMNG]

67. Been away from DU for a while, eh?

:popcorn:

[theHandpuppet]

75. Okay.... so will you PLEASE quit saying "gay lifestyle"!!!

I'm sorry, but you keep repeating that phrase and it's really getting on my nerves. I'm not even sure what a gay "lifestyle" is but if you find out let me and my partner know.

[NRaleighLiberal]

4. Well said - and absolutely. It is not about people's choice - it about

the hypocrisy!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

6. Choice?

[Zhade]

34. Uh, what choice are you talking about?

Being less-than-heterosexual is NOT a choice!

[Zhade]

41. Are you going to answer our question?

I'd really like to not assume you're using Republican talking points on purpose.

[NRaleighLiberal]

49. Sorry, no offense intended at all....

[Mr_Spock]

51. Even unintended slips ups will get you on the shitlist with some here

They are so obsessed with political correctness and take sleight at anything even accidental misuse of words.

You'll learn to never ever comment on gay topics again unless you are simply cheerleading.

[Puglover]

56. Yeah you're right.

We really need to shut up and keep in our place. :eyes:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

60. Hmm...the message you're replying to shows up as ignored for me.

Why am I not surprised?

[Mr_Spock]

62. Because you have proven my point

You called me a homophobe because I simply brought up a topic that you didn't want discussed.

Then you put me on ignore. Big loss for me :eyes:

Absolutely.

Amazing.

:eyes:

[Zhade]

64. Excuse me? Who the fuck do you think you are?

It's not a choice. Pointing this out isn't "political correctness" (nice rightwing phrase, you pick that up where you got the "gays shouldn't ask for equal rights when it's inconvenient for me" shtick?).

Asking that we be respected and our lives not reduced to a "choice" that was never made is not asking for cheerleading - it's asking that we be respected as the human beings we were born as.

How DARE you.

[Mr_Spock]

66. I think he was stating that he did not mean it that way

I was telling him that it doesn't matter anyway since he used a "code" word and it doesn't matter that he had no intention of insulting anyone. Just ask John Kerry about accidentally misspeaking something that was interpreted as an insult :eyes:

There's no point to this - just put me on ignore as I will not back down to the bullying.

[Zhade]

83. You insult us, and WE'RE bullying? Please.

You're not a victim here.

I already acknowledged the other poster's apology. You still owe us one.

(And I don't do ignore - how else could I counter your bullshit if I can't see it?)

[Mr_Spock]

87. I owe you an apology

OK, just tell me what I should apologize for and why and I'll consider it. I've already stated that my wording may have been naive but I certainly never meant to slight anyone. Do I have to do a Kerry?

[Zhade]

91. I wouldn't ask me about Kerry; I've been ignoring the whole thing.

My point is this: the poster called it a choice. That poster was wrong, and has since acknowledged it. We have had a very honest and very productive back-and-forth on it.

Once the poster said they meant no offense, you instantly turn to the "hypersensitive homosexuals" gambit. Oh, not in those words, but when you intimate that our reminding a poster that it's NOT a choice is taking "political correctness" (a phrase that originated within the rightwing, btw) too far, you're essentially saying we're complaining about nothing.

Well, that's utterly, utterly wrong. The use of the "it's a choice" meme by those opposed to our deserved equal rights has done significant damage to our fight. It's the call-and-response of the homophobe, of the bigot, who really doesn't think GLBT folk deserve equal rights.

Now, I don't think you are a homophobe, or a bigot. I think you are not as dedicated to equal rights for all as you may think you are, thanks in no small part to your spinning our decades-long fight as something we can't wait two weeks for - as if we'll magically get those equal rights as soon as Dems take over, when history shows otherwise.

I'm saying that when you attack us for pointing out to others that this is our lives we're talking about, and we're not just arbitrarily choosing our sexual orientation, you legitimize both the idea of 'gays using political correctness as a club' and the 'they're hypersensitive about the word choice' memes.

I will fully acknowledge jumping on the poster. I'd hope, given the atmosphere here after the NJ decision and another round of "keep waiting for that (might-never-come) day when you'll get your rights, it's not a good time to fight for equal rights at this time", that you can acknowledge why I'd be so quick to jump on yet another poster (in this case, innocently) using the 'choice' lie.

Does that make ANY sense?

[Mr_Spock]

95. But I wasn't saying the "choice" word wasn't bad, I was saying it was a misunderstanding

I totally agree that it's not a choice - he was hammered even after he said he misspoke. I have an issue with that.

Implying that I've spent a lifetime learning to spin that 2 week thing is utter hyperbole - nothing to apologize for there. I've been told all of my life to be persistent and that some things take time, but what is good and right will end up happening in the end if you stick to your ideals. I've never once wavered on my ideals. I simply brought up a POLITICAL topic as it related to POLITICS. I cannot constantly worry about political correctness (I like the term since "politically incorrect" was popular) when I am here at a political site discussing POLITICS! I will not apologize for discussing politically sensitive topics here. And I will only express regrets for being naive at time - fucking sue me if you want me to be more sensitive. Get off my fucking back.

If I am pissed about the guy being attacked, it is because of the way I was treated by the same folks who are here making SNIDE remarks about how they are "ignoring" me (this person has said that they only have ONE person on their ignore list and that person is a HOMOPHOBE!!) If that wouldn't piss you off, tell me what would.

Look, I do understand your position, but I still haven't gotten over being attacked for what amounted to someone else's burnt toast. Attacking an ally instead of educating your fellow supporter is just not productive. Attacking one person because you are pissed at another (and then "ignoring" them) is not funny. I do NOT appreciate the way I have been treated WRT this issue. Even with all of the insults and sleights, I have chosen to take the high road for the most part - yet I still am seeing severe hyperbole and harsh language directed at me. I DON'T LIKE IT! I have been willing to compromise from the point where I asked that they lock my thread - but I refuse to apologize for an unintended slight. Heck, I didn't attack anyone, but I was attacked unmercifully. Would you apologize in such a situation?

[Zhade]

156. "Implying that I've spent a lifetime learning to spin " - where did I say that?

You're not even listening to me.

[bliss_eternal]

120. Very well said, Zhade...!

:hug:

[Jamastiene]

106. Oh, this is ripe.

Oh, yeah, the straight bashings are so common. Why just a few days ago a gay person beat a straight person with the butt of a gun and lef them tied to a fence post for 5 days and then a bunch of Christians "accidentally misspoke" and said it was God's will. Oh yeah, we gay people bully straight people all the time what with our demands for equal rights. The nerve of us.
:eyes:

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sapphocrat]

133. Well, I'm glad we agree on one thing.

I'm sick of the fucking negative attitude around here myself.

Unfortunately, that's all we're going to agree on.

[foreigncorrespondent]

137. ROFLMAO!!!

Couldn't have said it better myself!!!

[Zhade]

158. Notice that the "selfish" meme came up again.

NT!

[Zhade]

157. Personal attacks won't get YOU anything, except alerted on.

Try acting like a mature adult - I know you can do that.

[Sapphocrat]

132. "Bullying"? "BULLYING"?

YOU don't like the fact that someone else else is offended, so that makes YOU the persecuted one?

Try something else. The reverse-persecution tack has been tried before, many times. Didn't work then, doesn't work now.

[Mr_Spock]

134. You are right

I am not allowed to be offended at the ridiculous hateful hyperbole thrown at me by 10 different people, while I calmly defend myself against the heterophobes here on DU.

[NMMNG]

68. Yeah, the whole PC thing has gone too far

Just yesterday I accidentally called one of the neighborhood kids a n*****. For some reason he got really mad at me. :sarcasm:

[Mr_Spock]

77. Sarcastic hyperbole is so helpful

That's OK, keep up the snide remarks and keep insulting & bullying people for making innocent mistakes.

This is helpful in perpetuating the situation as I described it. Thanks for continuing to make my point people.

:eyes:

[NMMNG]

114. I wasn't bullying a person who made an innocent mistake

I was being snarky to a person who was acting like an ass.

[Mr_Spock]

115. You're acting like an ass!

You a got a lot of nerve there. I'm sick of you and the other jerks posting here.

[NMMNG]

116. The feeling is mutual

.... ...

[Mr_Spock]

117. Good

I'm sick of you gigots.

There's enough hate in the world without me having to listen to you fucking ass holes attacking people who are on your side.

[NMMNG]

118. If you're on our side

I'd hate to see what an enemy is like.

[Name removed]

119. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NMMNG]

123. You started the problem here

You began being nasty.

All that happened is someone nicely pointed out the difference between "lifestyle" and "life".

You're the one who had to get your knickers in a twist and begin acting rude. Then you act offended when others respond in kind.

[Mr_Spock]

124. lol - you just think you can be nasty rotten to me, but I should apologize

LMFAO - This is so childish and what I am coming to expect from all of those who argue in these posts.

[Mr_Spock]

125. You started the nasty on me

I said nothing to you first

[NMMNG]

130. You started the nasty in general

Mr_Spock (1000+ posts) Thu Nov-02-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Even unintended slips ups will get you on the shitlist with some here
They are so obsessed with political correctness and take sleight at anything even accidental misuse of words.

You'll learn to never ever comment on gay topics again unless you are simply cheerleading.


Don't be surprised that people didn't just sit back and take it.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NMMNG]

135. Heterophobes

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Mr_Spock]

136. Yeah, I haven't figured out how to make that not sound "cute"

Dag nab it! :rofl:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

143. I just had to IM one of my straight friends to ask if I was a heterophobe...

haruka3_2000: You're straight. Am I a heterophobe?
mavericks***: A what?
haruka3_2000: A heterophobe.
mavericks***: Is that like a homophobe in reverse?
haruka3_2000: I think so.
mavericks***: Er...no.
haruka3_2000: Thanks.
mavericks***: I'm just laughing at the heterophobe thing though.
haruka3_2000: Yeah, so am I.

[Mr_Spock]

145. You are the person who has been calling me a homophobe

PROVE IT!!

DON'T ACCUSE SOMEBODY OF SOMETHING UNLESS YOU PLAN TO PROVE IT!!

Or are you going to boast about how I am the only person you have on "ignore" - violating DU rules once again?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

146. I got too curious and I took you off ignore tonight. I'm glad, because your outburts are hilarious.

Anyway, you're the one going around calling people all sorts of names here. Seriously, how high is your blood pressure?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

147. Oh and it's not against DU rules to state someone is on your ignore list.

"You are permitted to tell someone that you are adding them to your ignore list, provided that you actually do so."

You were on ignore when I wrote that. Now you're not. No rules broken.

[NMMNG]

152. Wanna hear something even funnier?

A female employee of mine (many, many years ago) tried to claim the reason I was giving her a disciplinary action was because, "You hate women".


:crazy:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

154. That's hilarious.

I've been called a man a few times here. I find it funny every time. Once LostinVA had to vouch for my XX chromosomes.

[Mr_Spock]

126. "Just yesterday I accidentally called one of the neighborhood kids a n*****"

If that's not hyperbole, I don't know what is.

You started the fucking nasty shit here!

[foreigncorrespondent]

140. I feel like I'm on a RW website.

Me too. Seen far too much homophobia around here lately. Made me feel like I actually visited the site that shall dare not be named. Why I had to bloody well look more than once to make sure I was actually at DU.

[Mr_Spock]

142. Yeah, I have seen some dumb posts myself

But I am still waiting for someone to say one fucking thing that even remotely makes me into a homophobe.

C'mon with the fucking lame talk and tell me what's your fucking problem!!

I'm getting sick of the games and piling on of person after person...

If you have something of substance to say

SAY IT

[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[davidinalameda]

127. you go!

:rofl:

[foreigncorrespondent]

138. On our side?

Please with friends like some of the so called I have seen around here, we really don't need enemies.

Please don't be on our side, because you actually make it a lot fucking harder for us.

[Mr_Spock]

139. Describe how I am making things harder

I have heard nothing of substance in the past week of hate.

Just a bunch of insinuations that have no basis in reality.

Seriously people, stop talking trash and say SOMETHING other than you hate people who question you.

[foreigncorrespondent]

141. Simple.

By telling us you are on our side, yet quote right wing talking points to us and then accuse us of being bigoted for pointing something out that is a known right wing tactic.

Wanna be on our side? Try standing up for us and quite quoting right wing shit. That would be a great start.

[Mr_Spock]

144. Name ONE FUCKING RW talking point

Just one.

JUST FUCKING ONE!!

I've stood up for gay family and friends dozens of times, but I'm not here looking for sympathy.

Tell me about these so called "RW talking points"!

[Duncan Grant]

98. As far as I can tell, it's about contempt not political correctness.

Let me paraphrase a thread title from earlier today: "I'm beginning to wonder if all Republicans are perverts."

And within threads, I've seen posts that call people cocksuckers.

And for years GLBT people at DU have had to listen to fellow Democrats say:

- "GLBT issues aren't mainstream."
- "GLBT people should learn to be politically pragmatic."
- "Would you people please shut up! I just want to win elections!"
- "Who else are ya gonna vote for? Republicans?!

I'm suggesting that many here have contempt for GLBT people. And if it's not contempt -- it's definitely a profound lack of empathy.

[bliss_eternal]

122. Exactly right.

I've seen it, too. :puke: It's wrong and it needs to stop.

Dems need to stop sending those that they don't consider the majority, to the outskirts of the party. Members of this board need to "listen" when members of underrepresented communities voice concerns, instead of telling them they don't matter. Or god forbid, telling people they are "too sensitive." :eyes: That one really burns me. :mad:

When you attempt to call people on this behavior, you get flamed for being "too pc" or being the "pc police." Excuse me, but wtf is the pc police?

[Zhade]

160. See post #119, wherein we're called hateful gay bigots.

It resides on DU, oh yes it does. Hatred for us.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

102. yes i am sure its we who are being overly sensitive

its not like there's a huge choice vs. nature debate that surrounds us...that we have to fight continually

stupid fucking breeders and their stupid fucking ignorance..

[Jamastiene]

105. Yep...

the politically correct thing to do is pretend you are not against gay people when really you are. With friends who do that, who needs enemies? It's better to get it out into the open and have a dialogue and learn about people you know nothing about rather than take that attitude and pretend to be friends of the GLBT community. I can see now that the next democratic administration is not going to advance any of our equal rights causes. If these last couple of weeks are any indication, we are up shit's creek without a paddle.

I guess it's back under the bus. It's getting crowded under here, ya know.

[Zhade]

161. See post #119 above, wherein he calls us hateful gay bigots...

...and let him try to tell us he doesn't hate us.

Thread SAVED, for damn sure. He's never going to be able to pretend he gives a fuck about us again.

[Sapphocrat]

129. What are you pissed off about, Spock? n/t

[Zhade]

65. Thank you. Do you now acknowledge that it is not a choice?

Fwiw, I agree that even if it WERE a choice, it shouldn't matter, and I apologize for getting angry - it's just been hellish here with some DUers asking us to wait forever for the day that will never come when we get our deserved equal rights.

[NRaleighLiberal]

78. Yes, and well understood - and thanks for YOUR understanding.

I tend to be one who doesn't edit thoughts before the fingers hit the keys, and the whole political scene has me very wound up.

[Zhade]

84. Very grateful for your reply, and again sorry for getting heated.

I appreciate your acknowledgment. Some here refuse to make amends if it shows that they were wrong; it takes a decent person to admit to a mistake (and I admit that I was a little harsh with you).

[NRaleighLiberal]

90. Again, thanks! One of my wife's few complaints about me (that she

will admit to) is how my mouth runs ahead of my brain. All in all, finding DU has saved my sanity (as it is) over the past few years - it feels like home, a big, great ol' diverse home with lots of smart, good people. I am quite envious of the many here who are so eloquent in how they word things....so I am still finding my "wings" in terms of how I can usefully contribute. I am happiest when I am learning, and I've learned so much from the time I've spent on DU (and the various places people point us to).

[Zhade]

92. We share that love of learning, and please don't feel the need to thank me.

This has been a good dialogue. :)

[Mr_Spock]

79. Saying two weeks is "forever" is classic inflammatory hyperbole

Love the cogent arguments from you...

:eyes:

[Zhade]

85. Oh, bullshit, and you know it.

We got DOMA under a DEM congress. We got "don't ask don't tell" under a Dem president.

It's not two weeks; it's been decades, and you fucking know it. Stop trying to spin our long wait for due equal rights as some sort of "now now now I can't wait two weeks" lie. You damn well know we've been waiting for a long, long time.

[Mr_Spock]

88. Let's not tie it all together like that - that's rhetorical spin.

There were lots of things that Bill C did that I do not agree with - do I have to consider all of history and if I may offend someone before I engage in political discourse? They don't have an expression concerning religion and politics for nothing. These are the risks of posting on a political site. I've been called horrible insults by some here WRT this issue - I'm not asking for an apology, though I feel like I've been treated extremely unfairly and rudely.

[Zhade]

94. I think some have indeed been very harsh with you in their defensive anger.

I don't agree with that as a response to your words. I'll go so far as to say that if I've been one of them who has called you names, I retract them and apologize.

That said, I think you're missing my point. It's not rhetoric, it's a historically-documented fact that equal rights for GLBT folk did NOT advance under Clinton and his Dem congress. This gives lie to the argument that if we just wait until the Dems gain power we'll get our rights.

It's so far from mere rhetoric that I'm stunned you can't see this. We simply cannot trust EITHER party to stand up for our full, deserved equal rights. That's why we won't wait - and if anyone thought we would based on their desire for political expediency, they're crazy.

Are Dems better on GLBT issues than Repubs? DUH. Do they fully support us? No. And that's the problem, and why we won't - why we CAN'T - wait "two weeks" (which really translates into two MORE weeks on top of the decades we've been fighting).

I think there's a disconnect here that you're not seeing.

[Mr_Spock]

97. Look, I completely understand your frustration

I am frustrated for you on this issue - I can't understand how letting people who love each other share their resources & protect each other is a bad thing to these so called "Christians". I have many people who I have supported in this fight over the years, and still do to this day.

I think we are just seeing this from a different perspective. I am strongly supportive of gay marriage and all that entails. I am also here on DU to support Democrats first and foremost. I certainly believe that they will support gay rights a lot more than Republicans, but they are politically motivated and will back off if it is politically expedient. This is unfortunate. If they had a super-majority, you can be sure they would get this issue settled sooner rather than later. My only real beef is that this is a Democratic site first and foremost - sometimes this focus will step on others toes. I don't know how to avoid possible conflict here without adding a self-censorship layer - which I am clearly opposed to.

[Zhade]

162. You don't even get it - we're done.

You've attacked my friends, called them names, it's over. You have nothing to say I consider worth hearing.

But here's a parting bit of wisdom for you:

1) it's not gay marriage, it's the equal right to marry

2) this is NOT a party website, for the fucking ten thousandth time - do I really have to direct you to the About section, where it specifically states this site is NOT a Democratic party site?

That you still place political expediency above our equal rights shows me we're finished talking. Done.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

104. actually we were asked to drop the marriage debate on du from 2004

2 years is a long time

maybe you dont remember

but i was here and i do remember

[Mr_Spock]

111. Hahaha!

Did anybody here have any control over that debate?

No, of course not! Stop blaming everybody who gives a shit.

If I didn't care I wouldn't bother to argue with you (or any of the other flamethrowers here).

Get over yourself. I have shit to worry about also - if that's OK with you.

[Sapphocrat]

148. Pssst, priyanka!

Make that "drop the marriage debate on du from 2002."

Oh, wait, maybe it was 2000...?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

149. So when will we allowed to talk about it?

:shrug:

[Sapphocrat]

150. Easy.

When the House & Senate are 100% Dem, a Clinton is back in the White House (and the 22nd Amendment has been repealed), and all the more important issues (peace in the Mideast, global disarmament, 100% employment, universal healthcare, and the complete elimination of all poverty, everywhere, for starters) have been resolved.

So ...(calculating)... Um, lemme put it this way: You remember the title of that song by Zager & Evans?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

151. Great! So in the year 2525, we can ask for equal rights, if man is still alive.

[Sapphocrat]

155. No...

...but we can start talking about it!

[Jamastiene]

107. Did you just learn that word, "hyperbole?"

You sure seem to use it over and over again. I was just wondering. :shrug:

And it's been years, thousands, probably even millions of them (for those of us who believe in evolution,) not two weeks, for the record.

[Mr_Spock]

110. I use it over and over again because I am seeing it over and over again

Crazy exaggerations as if to imply anybody with a common sense approach must be a homophobe.

Hey, piss people off with ridiculous rhetoric - I don't really care.

[LostinVA]

45. Some honest questions: when did you choose to be straight?

Why did you choose to be straight? Do you think you'll choose to stop being straight?

[Touchdown]

48. Stepped in it there, didn't ya' Pal?

So answer the question. I can't wait to hear this!

:popcorn:

[Jamastiene]

103. Uhhhhhhh, "choice?"

It ain't a choice to be gay, for the record. Get your facts straight.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

5. Thank you.

Unfortunately, those who really need to apologize don't. The only thing I need to correct you on is calling it the gay lifestyle. It's a life, not a lifestyle.

;)

Seriously though, thank you for this post.

[symbolman]

9. See?

That's JUST what I was talking about :)

thanks!

[LeftCoast]

8. Thanks, man! The last few weeks have been pretty ugly around here

I think the vast majority of people on DU are good and kind. I'm sure most of the people I have yelled at for posting things I consider homophobic are well-meaning. It's funny really, I expect these kinds of comments at FR...not DU. Maybe that's why it hurts more when I see it around here.

[William Bloode]

10. Sadly it had to be said.

I remarked a few times on the whole thing during Foley. I felt shamed by some of the stuff i saw.

[Hamlette]

11. Barney Frank said it best!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwlMrBaQctY

Talking about the outing of Larry Criag.

The GOP would make homosexuality a CRIME.

"And I think there is a right to privacy but the right to privacy should not be the right to hypocracy. And people who want to demonize other people should not then be able to go home, close the door, and do it themselves."

It gets better, watch the clip, the republican on the panel tries to turn it into an argument about "the right to keep your own money (taxes)" and Barney goes right after him for chaning the subject!

[symbolman]

13. Barney RULED

on the Bill Mahr show, he took them to task BIGTIME, never letting them change the subject, I love it, he smells blood and goes for the kill :)

[Disturbed]

19. Maybe Ted Haggard is not Gay.

He might be Bi. Yeah, he is a complete hypocrite. Most here are jumping to the conclusion that he is Gay. He claims that he has not engaged in this "affair". The guy that has stated this says he has proof, voicemail and other evidence. We shall see, real soon what the actual truth is.

[Hamlette]

26. he stepped down for christsake! You don't do that if you are innocent!

I don't mean that like it sounds. . . gays are not "guilty". But he's guilty of being a hypocrite.

[Zhade]

43. Take it from me, bi is a form of gay.

I often joke that I'm half-gay, in fact. :)

[swimboy]

12. Thank you and those on whose behalf you speak.

People of good intent who avoid the terms 1) Lifestyle, 2) Agenda, and 3) Preference will go along way toward playing fair.

And for the others not quite so inclined to be sensitive, believe me when I say that if you are straight and use a term a gay person finds offensive and we trust you enough to gently tell you so, don't rebuke us and try to correct our error. We are not looking for any straight people to educate us about how gay to be. We've had years of practice, and we're good at it already. ;)

[Kerrytravelers]

89. I've made faux pas all over DU in my time here the last couple of years.

When my errors are pointed out, I don't take it as a personal affront. I take it as letting me know something so I can be a more fair and equitable person. Becoming defensive only makes one look like a complete ass.

[swimboy]

113. I appreciate that. Every one of us has things we don't know

as much about as someone else and it's great when we can learn from each other. :hug:

[AlCzervik]

14. Haggard cheated on his wife, i don't think it matters who with really

it's about the hypocrisy of the "Sanctity of marriage"

[opihimoimoi]

15. Aloha to Symbolman.....this latest flap is a GIFT from the Fundies to the DEMs

Rove and his CREW must be PISSED at this latest developement causing major upheaval in nx weeks elections...

Come, we go drink a cold beer...I get the pupus

[symbolman]

22. Opi's BACK!

How'd you ride out the Concrete RIDE? I was standing in my driveway watching the concrete buckle, wondering where all those CARS that were PARKED were Going! I was worried, we all were about you..

I think that sucking sound we all hear is Rove's brain emptying into his colon, this latest had to turn it to jelly.. :)

Let's hope he doesn't vacation in Hawaii after he's turned out to pasture this season, eh?

Yeah, I'm ready for Pu pu's - once we get the POO out of Washington DC.. and all those other states :)

Glad you safe Bradda!

[opihimoimoi]

25. Thanks man...only victim was my computer....it had to go to the Hospital

then 1 week in REHAB.....LOL

[Karenina]

33. OPI!!!! DA BIST DU!!!

I just KNEW you were just fine and wasn't a bit worried!!!! I'm learning patience in my old age. ;-) :loveya:

[opihimoimoi]

36. Yo no soun ole to me...lol....

I am approching 70 and I too know about being old...

Come, we go Maui, walk the beach with Mikey

[Karenina]

52. You got something to roll???

I bring big bag of surume for munchies. Tell Mikey to bring a bottle of... whatever! It's ALL GOOD! :grouphug:

[opihimoimoi]

54. Git it all covered...from wine to time...

[Karenina]

57. MY OPI!!!

:loveya::loveya::loveya: Full moon a'comin'!

[opihimoimoi]

59. LOL.....Full moon and calm seas....

[symbolman]

40. Did your compute ask you how BIG you were

before it entered Rehab? :)

Probably something like "Make your member BIGGER, CLICK HERE!"

[opihimoimoi]

53. I had to give them the computers STATS in inches

LOL

[Not Me]

16. Aw shucks, you're family.

And we know our family loves us.

[AIJ Alom]

18. Don't worry though. I see any anti-GLBT posts and I will flame away.

I promise.

[BootinUp]

20. Its the bashing, I mean its more than just hypocrisy.

I am not gay, but I second the OP, no offense intended to any DU'ers.

I don't understand how they could participate in these efforts to make peoples lives aomehow less real, when they should be able to relate. Quite disturbing.

[David Zephyr]

21. Symbolman, you are hereby an honorary homosexual.

Entitled to visit Oz without any blackout dates with all the other of our GLBT-friendly sisters and brothers.

[symbolman]

30. I LOVE OZ

being in Hawaii I have it right here in my own back yard :)

Can't wait to see the keys to the city :)

Thanks!

Wait, my wife just got home. Oh, it's cool with her, one reason I love that woman :)

[Jamastiene]

108. I wish I had the original Wizard of Oz soundtrack on CD.

I loved that movie. I'd love to hear those songs uncut in CD quality remastered in all their glory. Ahh...

[lyonn]

24. It's not the gayness it is the hypocracy that stands out

The damn media only picks up on this kind of issue big time. It's personal stuff and yet the media is all over.

So how are the repubs going to complain that "gays" are sinful and need to change their ways when so many of their faithful happen to be gay and are ordinary people.

[Zhade]

27. You're a class act, friend. We know your heart is in the right place.

NT!

[symbolman]

46. Thanks so much

I think most of DU are kind and generous people, but sometimes it's just too damned easy to hit the ENTER button when you are excited, and then of course most people, once they've said something feel like they'd be thought of as a waffler if they don't stand by an original statement, people need to unlearn this..

I think a lot of the world's ills could be solved with a simple, "I'm Sorry, I was WRONG." :)

[Puglover]

82. I think a lot of the world's ills could be solved with a simple, "I'm Sorry, I was WRONG."

Those words have gotten me out of many scrapes. It's amazing how much they can heal a situation. I wish one of the posters up thread would learn how to use them.

You are one class act Symbolman.

[Generic Other]

28. straight or gay, the words 'prostitute' and 'pastor' in one sentence

raise eyebrows.

[Cameron27]

29. !

:spray:

[symbolman]

32. LOL!

There is nothing more helpless and irresponsible than a pastor plunged into the depths of prostitution, aka Hunter Thompson talking about Ether :)

[Binka]

70. Apparently Eyebrows Weren't The Only Thing Raised n/t

[hunter]

31. What a messy place DU is.

This is good.

[casus belli]

76. Most families are messy, no? n/t

[pointblank]

35. A very well intended post.

The only thing I will re-emphasize as a straight male is that I regret that in this era of division and mudslinging I am sad that yet another "group" (that should not even have to be thought of as being a seperate "group") has to endure the ignorance of some. Someday all that have the ability to think freely will overcome the ignorance that lingers like a foul smell and this truly will be a free country.

equal rights for ALL!

[symbolman]

38. Unfortunately, due to

discrimination there will always be 'groups'. I hate pigeonholing as well, I never hung out in any clique as a young person, I always guaged people by their kindness or assholiness, they didn't even have to agree with me or I with them, it was the WAY they went about espousing their views in a lot of cases, except in cases of Damaging ANY person, THEN I had to step in..

I don't think that HATE Groups have any identifying marks other than their nature..

I think the Irish have a Justice Gene, and can't stand by and abide the attack of anyone.

My apologies to anyone else of Irish descent who disagree :)

[pointblank]

42. I'm half Irish...

the only thing that insults me is when someone says I cant hold my liquor! Hows that for a stereotype?

Seriously though symbolman, I think your post took guts and echoes a lot of unspoken sentiment around here. Bravo.

[symbolman]

44. Yeah I think one of the first jokes I heard

causing me to kick the slats out of my cradle was "If it wasn't for Whiskey the Irish would Rule the World!"

Tho I think there might be a grain of truth to that, the grain they use to make Whiskey of course :)

Oddly enough many of the things people make fun of in a group some of the group don't find insulting at all, more like a badge of Honor. Humans are strange and mysterious creatures.

Or as my wife says, "The thing that you were most attracted to in a person when you met them is the thing that drives you the most crazy once you marry them..." :)

[pointblank]

50. Well according to your wife's logic

I must be attracted to women who can't cook......:rofl:

(My wife is standing behind me with her beer positioned over my head ready to pour it)

[JackBeck]

121. I'm half Irish, half Italian.

I always joke with people, especially when I was batending, that since I'm Irish Italian, when I get drunk...I beat MYSELF up.

Bah-du-dump.

[LostinVA]

47. Thank you!

[Infinite Hope]

55. Admirable Admission. n/t

[ThomCat]

58. This is one of the best posts I've seen this week!

:applause:

[ConsAreLiars]

61. I think you are expressing the attitude of most on DU, But....

My assumption is that people who occasionally show some degree of unawareness of how their words might be taken, or express views that others recognize as ill-informed, are good-intentioned, but either an bit naive or have expressed themselves poorly.

In that spirit, I want to point out that using a phrase like "the gay lifestyle" is adopting a right-wing "framing." Language is sometimes our enemy when it comes to understanding things. When you think about it, you undoubtedly will realize that there is no more a "gay lifestyle" than a straight, or Black, or Irish, or working class, or urban (etc.) "lifestyle."

But your main point, that sometimes we might step on toes with no malice intended, is worth making, and thanks for the reminded.

[Zhade]

86. Agreed, but what about when people have been told this, and still use it?

It happens, right here on DU. Hell, there's a guy upthread spinning things to look as if, should we just wait two weeks, we'll suddenly get all our due equal rights as soon as Dems are in office - conveniently omitting the fact that we got things like DOMA and don't-ask-don't-tell under DEMS. We've been fighting for equal rights for DECADES, yet people spin the NJ decision and our reaction as selfishness on our part!

Some people here really DON'T like gays and DON'T support equal rights, and that's a real shame.

[symbolman]

96. Just know that at least here that there are FEW of them

and MANY of us who cherish and respect our gay brother's and sisters.. all of us have simpering assholes playing mindgames, they're part of what I call STATIC, background radiation, and they serve only their limited mind.

Most of the time I pity them, I can't hate them, they're not worthy of my hate, my hatred is saved for people who MURDER and Kill unjustifiably..

While words can be worse than swords at times, we can choose what we react to, as my Uncle used to say, "If there's No Receiving station, there's usually no reason to transmit.."

Always loved that. Remember the sheriff in LA when the KKK wanted to march and were constitutionally protected to do so, he said, "DON'T show up, don't even come to the parade to jeer and scream at these guys.. it's what they want.."

What if they gave a parade and NO ONE CAME?

Same difference. People of limited views only live to GOAD others for entertainment, and like my sister likes to say, "Remember, the MEDIOCRE are doing their VERY BEST.." :)

[eridani]

63. Occasional slips from people who are on our side are OK

A helpful hint to our allies: get rid of the word "lifestyle." That is the Repuke meme for trivializing our actual lives. LGBT people do not have "lifestyles"; we have LIVES. As does everybody else.

[NMMNG]

69. Thank you symbolman

:pals:


There have been many incidences of f*ckwittage here lately, but posts like yours are a breath of fresh air.

[Binka]

71. Thanks Mike This Really Needed To Be Said!

:thumbsup::hi:

[symbolman]

99. Hiya Binka!

How's the kiddies? Is the Young lad healing up nicely, inside and out? I hope all is well with your BEAUTIFUL children..

We actually took my little son to a Book signing in LA the other day, RALPH STEADMAN was there to sign his new book about his love for Hunter S. Thompson and sadness due to his suicide. Hunter killed himself on President's day, and according to the folks I talked to, he did it as a form of protest over BUSH.. he could no longer take watching his country flow down the bowl..

My son's been wearing a DOC Band on his head for the past 4 months to round it out, off in two weeks, and so I pushed my way to the front of the line as all were battling to get Ralph to sign older books, and when they said he'd only sign a few I held up my son over the crowd and said, "This boy's middle Name is HUNTER, and I'd like for Ralph to sign HIS HELMET.." Totally threw the Ralph 'herder' off and Ralph loved the idea, Gonzo enough for him, :)

So now my son is sporting something that I can have mounted and saved, a relic of a minor disability, tho easily corrected, but with a nice addition to it, the signature of the man who did ALL of the artwork for Hunter S. Thompsons's wonderful books..

But I had an ulterior motive. I've been writing a book for the past five years about my adventures in Alaska where I flew around in helicopters looking for Uranium all over the face of Alaska, being chased by bears, crashing, changing women like underwear, driving cab in Fairbanks, all set in the drug drenched 70's culture of the beginning of the pipeline, but showing the spiritual growth of the protaganist, who eventually sees the tundra from a chopper COVERED from horizon to horizon with Cariou migrating.. an epiphany.

The name of my book is called "The Jesus Bolt" (not about christian values, more comparative religion) - the Jesus bolt is the thing that holds ALL of the blades on the chopper, when that falls out the next person you are talking to is Jesus himself :)

This is the Metaphor for the planet, personal growth, spirituality, even the environment.. what if the Caribou ARE the Jesus Bolt of the Planet? for instance..

So I scored a little time to talk to Ralph Steadman about doing a cover for my book.. I've got hollywood interest already, so If I can convince Ralph to jump on board I think I got me a winner here :) as long as the money doesn't run out before my words do..

SO there's what WE'VE been up to, and my little boy is my private joy in my older age (53 a scary time), and I've lived an insane life, time to write it down, as YOU have, love to hear of a book by YOU, you are one amazing person!

Good to hear from you, and wish me LUCK, I think I'm writing my Opus :)

[keopeli]

72. Don't worry, you're loved, too!

And it's not your fault that your straight and white. (just kidding!) :pals:

Humility is always attractive. Cheers, symbolman! :headbang:

[symbolman]

100. I used to hang out at Hamburger Mary's in Maui

back in the 80's and was sort of 'adopted' as the straight mascot there :) but I did experience the other side of anger, there was a lesbian there who treated me like shit, not serving me drinks, etc, and eventually I just jumped in her chest with both feet, "hey, why are you treating ME like I'm low man on the food chain? Do you think I had a CHOICE about being straight? I'm a fucking human being just like YOU are, and deserve respect.."

She lightened up after that, maybe she didn't notice she was doing it, and I gave her plenty of chances to realize it without being an asshole about it.. I had so many friends there, and many of my pals would come to the island and laugh at me.. "Jesus Mikey, I search all the bars on maui and I find you in the GAY bar?!!"

I'd tell him, "THIS is where you pick up all the Chicks man! I just walk up to them and say, 'Hi, I'm Mikey and *I* am Not Gay, wanna see the Island?'"

Worked GREAT for me :)

Plus I got to have intelligent conversations in there, I detest sports bars, glad people have them, I don't like the screaming at tv shit, weirds me out.. had a lot of fun in Hamburger Mary's and I wonder where a lot of my friends have gone off to.. it's gone now, at least on Maui.

[BlueIris]

73. Interesting post. nt

[LynneSin]

74. It's not about their sexuality but about their hypocrisy

Simple enough!

Perhaps if people were allowed to live & marry with the person they love with no judgement from the government or neighbors then perhaps the hypocrisy would disappear

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

80. That's how it should be, and I know it's only about the hypocrisy with you.

You know how to discuss the hypocrisy without being offensive and phobic.

However, there are quite a few DUers who are quite gleeful in dragging out the fag jokes and smearing anyone evil as gay. That's pretty much gay bashing, under the thin guise of pointing out the hypocrisy.

[porphyrian]

81. I'm certainly not trying to offend you any more than anyone else. - n/t

[Duncan Grant]

93. Thanks for taking a leadership role... (yet again).

It's always good to hear from progressive straight allies - you made my day. All good things to you, symbolman! :thumbsup:

[Jamastiene]

101. Thank you for thinking of us enough to apologize.

Many would rather follow us around and badger us from thread to thread if we dare say anything is offensive. It's refreshing to see someone try to extend an olive branch. If you are willing to try to learn about us, you are over halfway there in my book.

[Imagevision]

112. good! now that we got that out of the way, do you think Bush is gay?

[davidinalameda]

128. you're just asking for it

:rofl:

[NMMNG]

153. No, I think he's a Christian.

:popcorn:

[Moderator]

163. locking.....

This has become inflammatory.