When I was in school I didn't have a problem with the dress code

[INdemo]

but in Indiana that may not be enough.Check this out


Cyber survey
Should Indiana public schools require students to wear uniforms as way to control objectionable clothing?

Yes

No

www.indystar.com

[LA lady]

1. I voted YES

As did 75%. We have school uniforms in our public schools and LOVE it. Much more economical, kids look neat, kept gang influence down and less social stresses.
My daughter dresses in 5 minutes in the morning as opposed to 30 minutes on Saturdays!

[poverlay]

4. I disagree. Uniforms are an added cost. The teachers spend

just as much time enforcing them as they do a regular dress code. Freedom and individuality are sacrificed to others'(meaning you, the teachers and others who voted to have them) convenience and fear. That is a very bad message to send.

You say they are economical. Does your daughter wear them until bed-time every day? My kids don't, otherwise they become worn much quicker and I must purchase more. My son will blow out the knees in a matter of days(no exaggeration) of anything short of $40-$50 pants. I can find great jeans that last forever for half that. There is at least one or two added loads of laundry for me every week. I also have to have two different pairs of shoes, sweaters, jackets, etc. etc...

I wore uniforms throughout my highschool and gradeschool and they in no way cut down on gang influence, cliques, sluttiness, teasing, or any of the other things they are supposed to.

The only thing good about them is as you say, they know exactly what to wear in the morning. I think my kids are not hurt by learning to make decisions.
I also think that they are nice to help mask economical differences. Unfortunately, the kids figure this out very quickly anyway.

Uniforms are simply a way to make educators and parents feel more proactive and in control, but in reality do little to achieve the stated goals.

Perhaps one of our legislators should introduce a bill to require us to wear a uniform. All adults. They could use the same reasoning you and all other pro-uniform advocates use. Maybe they could call those uniforms ummm, I don't know, if it's a woman, maybe a, hmmmmmmm
burka?

[China_cat]

6. You are thinking in terms of the Catholic school uniforms.

Our uniforms here are dark pants or skirt (or long shorts when the weather is hot), white or light blue collared shirt/blouse (tucked in) and a belt. No name brand shoes, no hats. For the elementary schools.

For middle and high schools the colors are khaki and red or white.

They are less expensive to buy than regular 'new school clothes', can easily be found in thrift stores but not look like you're shopping 'poor'. Girls are not required to wear skirts. It's cut down the fights and thefts immensely.

[poverlay]

19. No, my kids are both in public schools. One wears a uniform and

the other does not. The one who does not is a girl and a clothes-horse and it is still cheaper and easier to deal with her. As long as I've lived I've never seen anyone get into a fight, steal, or be stolen from due to their clothing choices. I do not buy into the notion that it is a "safety" issue. It's a complete canard.

One other note:
I had a friend who was rather over-weight in highschool and the requirement to wear a belt did cause him more discomfort and teasing that I was directly aware of. It was very sad. Everyone has different issues and the attempt to shoe-horn them into one way of doing things is as wrong with wardrobe as it is with teaching styles and religion.

[China_cat]

36. Here, it IS a safety issue.

Including 2 beaten to death for their Air Jordans.

My grandson was robbed of his hat (on the weekend), jacket and shoes and had to walk home in bare feet. (well, ok, socks, but still...) He was lucky. Just a cut over his eye and a lot of bruises. Safety is NOT a canard here.

[poverlay]

41. I have to be amazed and saddened by your grandson's experience,

yet have never heard of such a thing here in Phoenix. We have a bad crime rate, plenty of gangs, and lots of problems, but no robberies of school children's clothes that I know of. The Air Jordan thing is a rare example and you haven't even come close to showing a causal relationship between the freedom to choose couture and physical danger. Anyone who has anything of value is in danger of attack and robbery but you can't make a very convincing argument that we should all drive the same car, have the same toys, live in the same type of house, and in general not be in possession of something desired of someone else for fear of being beaten. Jealousy, and rage are the problem. Cruelty, ignorance, and conformity are the problem. Cowering in fear and taking away our children's freedom is not an effective or desirable course of action to me.

I had a friend beaten for wearing a hat that someone wanted. Those kids would have beaten my friend and stolen something else had he not been wearing that hat.

Violence is irrational. Trying to appease it in a rational manner is always, ultimately, futile.

[bbernardini]

7. As a teacher, I've found uniforms to be a good thing.

I'll admit, I used to be an anti-uniform person, and I try to not judge somebody by what they choose to wear. (Except for that woman that sells Quacker Factory clothes on QVC. She's just nuts.) Contrary to your observations, I've found that having the middle school students wearing uniforms removes the temptation to ostracize others for their clothing choices, giving the kids no choice but to get to know the person for who they are, rather than what they wear. I can't begin to count the number of "different" kids I've seen accepted because the only basis for judgement was their actions toward others.

Do I wish it didn't have to be that way? Of course. But we all know how middle-school-age kids are. Whether we like it or not, they're going to judge people for stupid reasons like clothes. If we can use uniforms as a tool to teach them to be accepting of others for who they are rather than what they wear, why not embrace the chance to develop this essential element of their character so that they are less judgemental as adults?

Besides, as Frank Zappa once said, "Everyone in this room is wearing a uniform, and don't kid yourself." :)

[poverlay]

20. All people everywhere are judged by what they wear. They should be

given the choice. If they want to wear something that allows them to be "accepted" that's their choice. Socio-economic status is easily deduced by children with or without uniforms. If a child is going to be accepted or be accepting, they will be anyway. Many children dress differently in an attempt to set themselves apart. Some children dress nicely because their parents make them, or because they are naturally neat. That all shows with or without a uniform. All the uniforms do is make it more difficult by forcing unnecessary requirements on them that they will find a way to bypass. Therefore wasting time, energy and money. I've never met a child who learned to be accepting by wearing or only seeing uniforms.
A simple, clear dress code is a much better compromise and addresses all of the issues uniforms do without the totalitarian overtones.

Nice Zappa reference by the way.

I keep thinking of the joke: "Now you're different... Just like everyone else."

[Carni]

13. I agree my kid wore uniform code last year/ cost me double

I HATED it!

Like you said I had to have two sets of clothes for my daughter because she would not wear the uniforms after school (not that I blame her they were horrible) in this particular case the clothes were more expensive and I had to iron the shirts. Seperate shoes were required, double the laundry etc etc.

This year she can wear jeans and a T-shirt or a sweatshirt to school and it's heaven...I can pick up a pair of jeans for 3 bucks at a resale shop and no one knows the difference.

Try buying a recycled uniform at a resale shop...they're wasted, faded and look like hell so unless you want your kid to look like they climbed out of a page from the grapes of wrath you have no option but to buy new uniforms.

I also took exception to the fact that the teachers apparently wore whatever they pleased...I will never forget the day I got a phone call to pick up my daughter because she wasn't wearing regulation pants, only to arrive in the office to see the school's music teacher dressed in a flashy tight green suit with a micro mini skirt and spiked heel GREEN thigh high boots on (WTF?)

Don't misundertsand me...what the teachers want to wear is their biz but don't expect the kids to dress one way and allow the falculty to dress another.

Suffice it to say I destest uniforms...all they need to do is establish a reasonable dress code that everyone can follow economically. Maybe it's the area we're in currently, but all I see is kids in assorted jeans t's and sweatshirts they don't even seem to be into the designer thing these days (granted that could just be an area/age thing and if so I guess I am lucky this year!)

I say NO to uniforms!

[poverlay]

21. Exactly! (Really? Green thigh high spikes? Sounds like a naughty fantasy I had once...)

Terrible I say! Terrible!
Any idea where I can get some for my wife? j/k
Seriously though, That really is more disruptive than no uniform.

[Carni]

25. Not kidding about the boots lol

Imagine standing there retrieving your kid for wearing cotton khakis instead of synthetic ones (they claimed they were denim but they were cotton twill) while looking at a 50 something year old woman dressed in THAT particular get up!

OH! And here's the other fun thing...the principal often wore a red double breasted suit!

They wanted the kids to look like little drab drones while they ran around looking like some Dance Fever episode gone horribly wrong lol

[poverlay]

40. I think you're describing a terrible dream I once had after mixing my

"grain and grape", and watching a colorized version of "The Wizard of Oz"...

The horror
:wow:

[Hippo_Tron]

24. I know at least with boys, fashion choices and economic status aren't directly related

It's a personal choice as to whether you want to dress nice or if you simply don't care. I guess it may be different for girls, though.

[Carni]

27. Girls can get pretty crazy

I'm lucky because mine is in a cheap and easily pleased phase!

[lakemonster11]

46. I don't think it matters.

I went to a pretty affluent high school, but the girl I knew who had the nicest clothes bought them all at thrift shops. It was just important to her to look nice and she didn't mind spending the time to hunt down bargains.

I wore mid-range jeans and cheap tee-shirts just about every day, and my parents would have bought me much nicer clothes if I had been interested.

[RebelOne]

2. I voted yes.

[nosillies]

3. Heck yeah

Sorry, kids don't get to rule the world. There's nothing wrong with telling a child to suck it up and deal on some issues.

[youthere]

5. I voted YES

[Zensea]

8. I thought this was a Democratic discussion board

Yeah, I had a problem with dress codes in high school.
Back in the days when they had a hair length dress code for boys.
Not so long ago (late 60, early 70s) & your hair didn't have to be that long at all to be too long.(not even shoulder length)
My parents always backed me up on it. I remember my father telling me once when the Assistant Principal had stopped me in the hallway to tell the Assistant Principal hair length was none of his business the next time he said anything about my hair length -- especially since I had a consistent 3.7 GPA.

[INdemo]

10. My point was ..we dont need school uniforms,just enforce the dress code

Guess I wasn't clear about where I stood on the subject....

[BoneDaddy]

9. Absolutely not

This is public school, not a prussian work camp. Set up guidelines on appropriate clothing (no gang colors, symbols, sexual/violent dress) but don't fall into the trap of conformity.

I am surprised by all the yes responses. I would have thought this was the Free Republic if I didn't know better. Send your kid to a private or parochial school if you want that.

[maseman]

12. When I go to meetings/sales meetings

We usually have a dress code called business casual. Of course not a uniform, but no jeans, t-shirts, shorts, etc. Golf shirts, khaki pants, nice shoes, etc. What is wrong with doing that for schools?

[INdemo]

14. Nothing

[BoneDaddy]

18. Because this is not a business it is a school

I think a great part of childhood and high school in general is supporting the individuality and freedom of expression with kids, instead of turning them into the collective conformity of corporate America.

Obviously there are limits to that freedom of expression and they usually revolve around sexually explicit or revealing clothing, racial, homophobic or other hate speech and gang related colors or symbols. I understand that, but I think to not encourage this expression is doing them a disservice ultimately. They will get out in the real world soon enough.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. Plus, Britney Spears managed to turn the school uniform into sexually explicit clothing

So I don't think it will even solve that problem.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. You think no boys had made that connection with those catholic schoolgirl skirts

before Britney Spears?

C'mon.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. I wasn't old enough to make that connection before Britney Spears

But I suppose you are right. I guess she just popularized it.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. It's been lodged firmly in the male psyche for a loooooong time.

So much so that when I saw that Britney Spears thing for the first time, in addition to sorta creeping me out, I thought "Whoa, there's a cliche".

[poverlay]

42. Yes yes, me too. I went to Catholic schools for much of highschool

and those skirts are dry tinder for a school boy's hormones. Then again, what isn't?

[BoneDaddy]

35. I hear ya

I went to Catholic HS and had a uniform, so I am pretty much against them. But that did not stop the girls from hiking their skirts up past mid thigh or other various rebellious dress.

[maseman]

47. Give me a break

They are in school 5 days per week about 6 to 7 hours per day. They can dress however they want after 2 or 3PM, weekends, holidays, summers, etc.
It isn't that much to ask the kids to dress a little nicer for going to school.

The teachers dress nicely, why shouldn't the students?

[Name removed]

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[Hippo_Tron]

29. I think the better question is, what is the point of doing it for schools?

In a business meeting you dress up because you are trying to appear professional in front of your colleagues. In schools I don't see why it's necessary for kids to try and appear professional.

I don't see the point of trying to appear professional at school. Especially since there's certainly no dress code when you go to college.

[BoneDaddy]

52. Amazing

how authoritarian some so called liberals become when they are dealing with a gp of people (youth) who they deem no power....then they wonder why young people take power when they can

[BlooInBloo]

11. As long as the cost is subsisized for poor folks...

... I got no problem with it.

[mondo joe]

15. No dog in this race. I don't think the uniforms are a bad thing, but

I also don't care enough one way or the other to cast a vote.

[loudestchick]

16. We have uniforms in KC. The enforcement is the issue.

As for price, the shirts are easy...the pants for an active 8yr old? I spend a small fortune to get quality (land's end w/ double knees) Some of the back to school charitable programs provide decent uniforms here along with backpacs and school supplies. We have a uniform exchange program at my kids elementary.

There will always be people who believe that the rules don't apply to them. Uniforms just remove some of the subjectivity about what is appropriate. does it have a collar? is it navy, or white or khaki? Easy!

[philosophie_en_rose]

17. It depends on the uniform.

Most school uniforms aren't kind to the overweight, petite, or tall students.

Uniforms don't seem like a big deal to me. Seems easier to wear a uniform that to figure out what to wear everyday, but a dress code could easily solve that problem as well.

[Homer Wells]

22. When I was in HS back in Tampa

in the early 1960's, we did have a dress code. Not a uniform thing, (which I find rather objectionable), but we were required to wear slacks and dress type shirts (button down, pullovers, etc). No jeans, shorts, t-shirts, and so on.
Girls mostly wore dresses, or skirt-blouse type outfits.

This rule was relaxed a few times a year, for Field Day, Senior Day, and times like that.

I never had any problem with it. Once I got home for school, it was back to jeans, sneakers, t-shirts, whatever.

[BlackVelvet04]

23. Sure.....

conformity at all costs.

[porphyrian]

28. Who decides what's objectionable?

I fucking hate ambiguous rules designed to enforce conformity. I'm not against having some standard for what is appropriate, but this oversteps that boundary.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Sure. Lets surpress that pesky-ass individuality at every opportunity.

Because you know, "these kids today" are out of control :wow: with their music, their pre-marital sex, their clothes.

...Completely unlike how we were. :eyes:

[LeftyMom]

32. I buy his clothes, I decide what the kid wears. Want a say? Then you pay.

Jesus, stupid shit like this makes me really glad LeftyKid is homeschooled.

I'm all for enforcing a dress code, at least to the extent of making sure everybody's pants cover their asses and the girls don't look like streetwalkers, but there's something to be said for teaching kids to dress appropriately with choices. After all, the jobs with uniforms tend to be the ones with shitty pay. Shouldn't we be letting our kids practice a rather nuanced skill (selecting appropriate dress for work and social occasions) they'll need in better jobs?

Besides, the awful polyester pants and poly-cotton polos that pass for public school uniforms around here are butt ugly, the fabric is ghastly, and even the cutest kids look like unattractive little drudges in them. Nicer and perfectly appropriate non-uniform clothes cost less money.

I hate this push toward standardized, conformity-focused, testing-centered Japanese-style education. I really don't think we should be emulating a society where suicide as a result of imperfect school or job performance is so common.

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. Let the kids vote on the issue.

As a parent, I don't like the uniform, everyone look the same, sheeple look. Sorry. What happened to encouraging INDIVIDUALITY? That USE TO BE A GOOD THING. I went out of my way in high school to look "different" than everyone else. It helps one express who they are. What's wrong with that? Clothes are FUN. Clothes are just a material "thing" and lets a kid show their "style" and it's a way to express themselves. That kewl, IMCPO. :smoke::hippie:

Just enforce the existing rules. How hard can that be?:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. Nope.

[Odin2005]

38. School uniforms are for fascists, just have a decent dress code.

[deadparrot]

43. I went to parochial school...

wore uniforms, the whole bit, and let me tell you, there was just as much clothing-related rivalry as there was in other schools. Kids will always find some way to be "cooler," dress "cooler," etc. You had to have a certain kind of polo shirt/blouse or sweater, a certain brand of pants/shorts/skirts, a certain colored belt, a certain brand of shoes, a certain brand of socks. Skirts had to be a certain length, tops had to have a certain fit, etc. If your uniform didn't fit those qualifications, you were teased in the lower grades, and virtually an outcast in the upper.

In my experience, some kids will always find ways to be nasty.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

44. I believe in giving teenagers harmless things to rebel against

They're programmed to rebel, and if you let them do whatever they want, they have to get really extreme to rebel. If you put some dumb little restriction on them, they'll rebel against that, such as hiking up the skirt of their uniform or letting their hair grow past their collar.

[557188]

45. Fascism

Anyone that votes yes is a fascist. There is no way to support this unless you are. Clear as day.

Kill individuality because of an over hyped gang problem. Christ the stuff I wore to high school in the mid 90s wouldn't be allowed under this stuff because I was all grunge with my hair dyed multiple colors! HEAVEN FORBID! The real problem is the ghetto culture thug lifestyle, THAT is something that is an issue with parents. Uniforms don't correct that one bit, it only makes it worse. Not only do the parents buy their kid overpriced Air Jordans but they also have to buy overpriced uniforms!

Uniforms teach your kids to conform. Not to bring up the Nazi connection, but there is a reason why school uniforms are rare in Germany.

[LostinVA]

48. Agreeing on school uniforms does NOT make you a fascist in any way

MOst parents and teachers love school uniforms -- my sister loved it when her kids' public school make them mandatory. And the kids liked them after some breaking in. UNiforms aren't Conformity -- they are cutting down on serious problems in school. School is a child's work place... school should be about learning and socialization with all kinds of people, NOT Fashion Plate Cool Central.

Fascism

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

[mondo joe]

50. I wore a uniform. It sure never taught me to conform.

You don't know what you're talking about.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[greatauntoftriplets]

49. I wore uniforms to school, K - 12.

They are a great equalizer.

[Name removed]

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[BoneDaddy]

53. ARE YOU SURE YOU PEOPLE ARE LIBERALS????

I mean how dare you think you can tell people how to dress...especially young people...
We have crippled them in terms of the acquisition of power and then get angry and whine like babies when they take power.

Give them their fucking clothes at least and shut the fuck up...

fucking fascist conformist assholes

[mondo joe]

60. Would you like everyone to CONFORM to your position?

Would that make us good liberals?

[BoneDaddy]

62. I am not the one imposing my will on children

you are. You are an adult who can do whatever the hell you want, I don't care, just stay out of making restrictive decisions for youth. Especially ones that take away one of the only freedoms they have left. Cripple them more why don't you.

[mondo joe]

63. LOL! So conformity in dress is bad, but conformity of opinion is good.

Got it.

[BoneDaddy]

65. Haha

It goes beyond conformity. You are denying them a choice. You can still have your opinion regardless of whether or not I think you are wrong or not. I am not denying you that. I just think you are wrong. But you will be denying them the choice if you had it your way.

apples and oranges.

[mondo joe]

66. Kids are denied the choice to not attend school. They are denied a variety

of choices. They are minors.

I am not a particular supporter of uniforms, nor am I particularly opposed to them. I am, however, strongly opposed to regulations for school children that touches on their choices outside of school - hair color or style, for example.

But I don't think it's fascistic to require uniforms, nor do I think it teaches conformity. It never taught me that.

[BoneDaddy]

67. I never claimed

it teaches conformity. I claimed it denied them one more thing to youth in a culture that has already crippled young people the opportunity to express themselves at a period in their lives where this is a necessary fundamental part of identity formation.

And yes it can be fascist, as it is reminiscent of military style conformity and that of the historically fascist countries in their approach to dress. The nazi's were famous for this, especially among the youth (brownshirts) etc. Trying to homogenize young people at a time when independence, autonomy and self expression are what need to be encouraged is counter-productive.

Are uniforms in and of themselves bad or evil, no, of course not, but the move to uniform the collective has autoritarian motives, often,with control as the underlying issue.

Youth throughout history came into their power during their teenage years. Our culture, on one hand, glorifies youth, but place more and more restrictions upon them, denying access to healthy power. And we wonder why there is often a rift between youth and adults. They want power and we hold it from them, instead of teaching appropriate use of power.

[Atman]

55. We used to go to school in bathing suits

But then, I lived in a tiny beach town if Florida, and everyone was screwin' and smokin' dope at 15 years old. Or maybe that was because it was the seventies. It's all kind of hazy...

:hippie:

.

[readmoreoften]

57. Fuck uniforms. And I'm a teacher. /nt

[Name removed]

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[Generic Other]

64. I'm with you and I'm a teacher too

The uniform movement fits in with the Nazi takeover plans of the GOP.

You want to wear a uniform, fine. You wear one. You want your kid to wear a uniform, fine, you get your kid to wear one.

You have no right, however, to force my kid to goosestep in unison.

The last time the uniform issue came up at my husband's high school, the staff voted to force everyone to wear Star Trek uniforms. The issue never came up again.

[LWolf]

61. Legally mandated school uniforms? Absolutely not.

It's sounds relatively benign as long as you buy into the idea that there is general consensus on what constitutes "objectionable clothing."

We might agree on banning gang symbols and overtly sexual invitations on clothing. We should agree that clothing should fit properly and be appropriate for the activities that will go on during the school day. We can say that we'd like the clothing to be in good repair.

Of course, that is not what mandated uniforms do. They inevitably introduce someone's personal opinion about dress that goes beyond the practical and into value judgments that should not be imposed on the general public. We are talking about public education, open to all without that imposition.

Even mandating that clothing fit properly and be in good condition might, legally or ethically, obligate a school to provide said clothing out of their budget if the family doesn't. We don't turn kids away because their parents are poor, or because their parents don't do laundry or bother to see that their kids are well-cared for.

A dress code goes far enough, in my professional opinion. Even then, it is an open invitation for kids to find creative ways around the requirements. Require a uniform, and kids will find a way to turn the uniform into personal acts of self-expression, guaranteed. Some of that self-expression is going to be "objectionable." I promise.

Why feel the need to take an authoritarian stance on such trivial issues?

[blogslut]

68. Will the girls get to wear pants?

Beleive it or not children, there was a time when girls weren't allowed to wear pants to school.

My question is, if the kids are forced to buy and wear uniforms, will the girls have the option to wear pants? Hell, for that matter, can the boys wear skirts?

[Dob Bole]

69. Another teacher, in favor of uniforms...

Although I really think this should be a local rather than state issue. And what in the world is "objectionable clothing?"

Our school has very inexpensive uniforms. They reduce the focus on physical appearance and class, and keep money out of sweatshops.

But it is a local policy, only for one school. I'm not sure I like the idea of the state setting standards for uniforms.