Joe Wilson: "There are no tinfoil hats anymore."

[kpete]

Joe Wilson: "There are no tinfoil hats anymore."
by Brainwrap
Thu Nov 02, 2006

At a fundraising dinner featuring MI-09 challenger Nancy Skinner , MI-08 challenger Jim Marcinkowski and the featured guest of the evening, former Ambassador Joe Wilson .

.... serious question about how he thinks the Bush administration will respond if the Dems DO retake both houses of Congress, considering that a) Bush can now LEGALLY arrest, lock up and torture any U.S. citizen he wants to; b) Bush can now declare martial law anywhere and anytime he wants to; and c) Rumor has it that FEMA has contracted with Halliburton to build dozens of detention centers here in the U.S..

His response was, let's just say, not encouraging.

Let me put it this way: Did you see the Oliver Stone/Anthony Hopkins take on Nixon? Towards the end, when his administration is crumbling all around him, he takes Alexander Haig (Power Boothe) aside and asks him what options he has left. Haig rattles off a few last-ditch legal maneuvers, and then states, somberly, that "you do still have...the military..." ...at which point Nixon basically folds, pulling himself and the nation back from the brink of insanity.

Well, apparently something like this really happened, because Wilson described Nixon's final days very similarly. His point was this: Nixon, while deeply flawed, did in the end show some respect for the Constitution.

George W. Bush is the one who literally referred to the Constitution as "just a G-dd*mn piece of paper" some months ago.

In short, Wilson anticipates that starting November 8th (or more likely in January, when the new Congress takes office), the United States will very likely have not one, but several Constitutional crisis' occur.

I prefaced my question by admitting that I might be going into tinfoil hat territory. Unfortunately, Wilson stated that at this point, under this administration "there are no tinfoil hats anymore."

more at:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/11/3/01750/2057

[OzarkDem]

1. They will go into extreme defense mode

It will take a strong Congress and a professional news media to protect our Democracy.

And I agree w/ Wilson that this is something that will happen on November 8, they've no doubt already planned for every contingency. Wonder if that's why the info about building nuclear bombs was left on a government web site?

[elehhhhna]

6. Woud the leak of this Fed website's nuke recipe's existence

prevent the use of such a nuke, here or elsewhere, by certain people who wish to influence our elections?

I think this "nukes on fed web" story could be a pre-emptive leak.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. No possible connection.

Even if full blueprints were available, anyone who wanted to build a nuke would require 10 years and a couple billion dollars. Don't see how that affects the election next week.

Or am I not getting what you're suggesting?

[elehhhhna]

11. Getcher tin hat on & come along for a moment:

Say the BA would benefit by a small nuke popping off somewhere, this weekend, or next weekend. Maybe in the US, maybe Iraq, wherever. An event like that could trigger 9/11-Style Rally Round The Prez, Part 2.

An event like that could be used to justify all manner of things: if in Iraq, it could be used to justify our invading their neighbors. If it happens within our borders, it could cause enough chaos to shut down the inevitable recounts & legal challenges which will commence on November 8.

Just saying.

[Amonester]

17. An event like that could (and, IMHO, would) prove without a doubt

the truth in that slogan (good for bumper-stickers too):

VOTE republican AND THE terrorists WIN

I would foresee a 10% 'approval rating' (or 0.10%?) on the 'day after' polls.. A 10/90 (or 0.10/99.90) "rally" instead of the naive 90/10 ** got after the PNAC's new Pearl Harbor wet dream come true.

And he'd "lose" 99% of the army also.

No doubt in my mind: that would be **'s water-lou...

[elehhhhna]

18. We're in agreement, then.

[savemefromdumbya]

54. if terorists attacked it will be Bush's fault

[savemefromdumbya]

53. yes, the Foley thing somewhat threw them

otherwise we would have had a few little H bombs popping off by now

[TechBear_Seattle]

7. A strong Congress and a professional news media, eh?

The Republic is lost then. :cry:

[Cha]

43. If we had a free press then

we would have a "strong congress". It always goes back to the corporatemediawhores.

I see our future being involved with mass protests at the major corporatemediawhore outlets.

[sqarebis]

2. Nope. Bush administration knows no limits

These people are dangerous.

[elehhhhna]

3. "bring it on"

those world will come back to haunt GW in the a$$.

k&r

[PATRICK]

4. Despite the fact

that there are grim strategic ways to handle a Dem Congress normally, Bush will explode having to start all over again with hard work, gaming, defeats and politicking as a lame duck. Rove will be hard pressed to satisfy his boss this time and take a long haul tack at all. The MSM and the local GOP will have rotten egg all over their faces AND there is NO brilliant energetic leadership with a PLAN coming from DC, just a lazy black hole brought up short.

It might be more of a mental crisis than a Constitutional one.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

5. Is He Confident The Dems Will Win 1 Or Both Houses? nt

[rosesaylavee]

9. We need to maintain our confidence that

we will have what it takes to keep the country together. The only thing to fear is fear itself as FDR stated in a previous dire time. Remember, there are more of us than of them and many MANY Americans will step up and do what it takes to keep this country a democracy.


"When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible but in the end, they always fall -- think of it, ALWAYS." M.K. Gandhi

[civildisoBDence]

52. Bush's version: "We have nothing to fear, but hope itself."

And his take on JFK: "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what a small group of wealthy, well-connected, cynical, ideologically-driven oil and military support services executives can do for you."

Newsprism

[rosesaylavee]

61. Exactly.

He needs to go before 2008. He is a traitor and needs to be impeached.

[mmonk]

10. Thanks for posting this.

"there are no tinfoil hats anymore." had to be said.

[Lex]

12. Call me naive, but I don't think our military would turn on our own citizens

on American soil, just to keep the republicans and Bush in power.

I know, even as I say this, I think of Kent State and the kids being gunned down on their own college campus.

Maybe I'm naive as I said but Bush's little neocon cabal would fall apart if they attempted to use our US military against our own citizens.

[WinkyDink]

14. Jackson State, Symbionese Liberation Army (SWAT didn't know if

Patty Hearst was inside or not), Waco (children).

I don't agree for ONE SECOND that American troops wouldn't fire upon fellow citizens.

[AntiFascist]

38. The big difference is...

the SLA and Waco were known to be enemies of the American government. We, on the other hand, are behaving like true patriots standing up for the Constitution and true democracy. Hopefully many in the armed forces would acknowledge this.

[motocicleta]

48. Where in the hell do you get the idea that protestors

to this administration would be any less "known to be enemies of the American government"? I guaranfuckingtee that if it comes to that the corporate media whores will present us as just as obviously enemies of the government as the Branch Davidians. Come on, now: that is just the way governments work.

You know, I recently had a conversation with a nice septuagenarian British woman. She told me the Brits teach history as that they decided to leave the American colonists since the colonists had grown capable of handling their own affairs. No mention of revolution.

Who do you think decides how to explain history? And how do you expect a military steeped in this brew to not open fire when told?

[motocicleta]

49. Granted, this will not stop me from protesting

Some things are more important than my life. But I don't expect some sort of magic 'democratic America' shield. They will be told to fire by the fascists, and they will fire. History certainly teaches us that much.

[AntiFascist]

50. I hope you noticed this thread, it seems extremely important...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2567879&mesg_id=2567879

All branches of the military may be ready to take a stand against the imposter in chief.

[Carni]

16. Realistically about 33% probably would

I would imgine that you have the same dynamic in the military that you have in the national polls (just my guess)

I believe that about 1/3 of our country consists of bush backing nuts and the rest of us just want these dangerous crooks out of power.

I would imagine that those numbers probably hold true for the military members as well.

[grasswire]

25. in the comments on that diary...

...someone has posted the information that the military, through psychological testing and observation, has categorized soldiers already into those who would follow orders without question and those who might not. Strategic deployment of forces in the event of an uprising would be based on the knowledge of who will be likely to fire on civilians and who would not.

That's what the poster said.

[rman]

32. Maybe not all of the military will cooperate,

but i would not put it past the neocons to at least try to use it to maintain power.

And they have a chance for success because much of military force these days is privatized, and the part that isn't privatized consists for a major part of non-US citizens. So the whole notion of "US soil" (and "our own boys") doesn't hold much water anymore.

[havocmom]

34. Wouldn't take the whole military, just enough technicians to blow things up

Now, look into the evangelical crap that has been allowed to go on for years at the Air Force Academy. There is cause to be concerned right there.

Remember right after the invasion... Prayer cards handed out to the troops, to pledge that they would pray for the president? Ya think they may have been doing a bit of profiling there? I sure as hell do.

Firmly believe they wanted an idea of which troops to keep track of in case bush needed his very own Republican Guard, like Saddam had. There are good guys and not so good guys wearing uniforms, be it US Army or any police force in the world.

[AntiFascist]

39. Or in the case of Hitler where his personal bodyguard service,....

the SS, grew into two major military divisions.

[Lil Red]

46. I fear that may be what Blackwell, et al, is for...(n/t)

[Hugin]

13. Thanks for clearing our name Joe!

It's all in play at the moment.

[Carni]

15. Damn-- I liked it better when I thought I was losing it

This is just NOT very comforting at all!

[BeFree]

24. Yeah,

Don't you wish we were the only ones?

[porphyrian]

19. Kick for scary omens we knew were coming. - n/t

[bunny planet]

20. Except, Bush does not still have the military.

They detest him because he used them and is responsible for the breakdown of the military and the destruction of its reputation around the world. I doubt the military would help him this time. In fact, I believe the reason the Bush administration is going through all this 'inconvenient' exposure of the real truth about them right now is because the wronged military and intelligence officials have had enough and are systematically destroying BushCo. from behind the scenes. First the retired generals tried to play nice, by coming out and testifying about their displeasure. When Chimpy dug his heels in and did nothing but trash them for their efforts, that started the back channel dismantling of the Bush Crime Family.

[havocmom]

21. One hopes. There has been a civil war on for some time now

between those who KNOW the oaths they took were to the Constitution and those who serve any ding-bat CIC who talks a lot about (but never, ever served) god and country

One hopes the good guys are in enough positions of tactical importance that they will refuse to attack their fellow citizens.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. Unfortunately, the retired generals are RETIRED.

The nut cases are still in the saddle.

[havocmom]

29. Not just the retired generals

Think back to bush, lobbying for his dictatorial powers:
He was enraged and spoke of the 'need for clarity for the young INTEL officer...'

Enough to convince me there have been A LOT of active duty personnel who have stood tall and said 'No, sir, I will not follow that illegal order!'

The junta needed 'clarity' for the people on the receiving end of their orders. Then needed a club to beat them into submission with. They needed to make what was illegal (and therefore, refusable) into legal. Why? It seems obvious there have been refusals to follow orders.

Active duty military, not just retired generals.

And active INTEL people.

And active public servants in ALL departments. Trust me, even FED employees who have been registered GOP for years are NOT happy with the cronyism appointments and the willful destruction of their departments on the parts of inept junta appointees.

There is a civil war going on behind the scenes. Those who are not retired cannot speak publicly, but the signs point to a whole lotta activity. The junta wouldn't be so damned panicked if they had the reins firmly in hand.

Cheney is terrified.

[Raster]

22. Agreed. bush* no more has the Military than I do. The Neocon disciples

in both the Military and Intelligence are finding the Command and Control support eroded.

[OzarkDem]

28. He does have the CIA , the FBI, and the IRS, though

Realistically, he's much more likely to keep stealing from taxpayers and doing he can to dismantle or outsource to private corporations every part of the government he controls.

More than control and power, they want money.

[havocmom]

30. He has management in those agencies

Trust me, there are plenty of dissenters among the worker bees in ALL federal departments and agencies. There are plenty who serve the nation, not the current GOP.

There is a civil war in America. It is below the surface and Corporate Media won't talk about it, but it is going on.

[leveymg]

60. Time to investigate contractor abuses, and reassert federal control over national security

The biggest threat to our Constitution and liberties isn't the CIA or FBI -- no matter who occupies the White House -- it's the privately-owned corporations that have taken over so many of the functions of internal surveillance and intelligence operations that once were the sole prerequisites of sworn federal officers.

Unlike the officers whom they've replaced, the contractors aren't really accountable to anyone but their own private interests.

That situation is intolerable and anethema to a free society.

[Cha]

44. Yeah, they really blew that.

It could be all different and the military would still worshipping the ground chimpy shirks around on.

That's what total incompetence will get ya..the only thing they do well is fear, lie, smear, attack, murder, steal, lie, smear, fear, lie..and now it's like the little chimp who cried "WOLF!".

[Marr]

58. It only takes a moment to shift that blame to "obstructionists" and

"liberal detractors".

[Boomer]

26. I heard Joe Wilson speak...

...at the ACLU Annual Convention a few weeks ago. His appearance was the event I was most looking forward to on the schedule and he did not disappoint.

Wilson is intelligent, articulate, and passionate about the dangers currently undermining our country.

[Initech]

27. With that said, I do not think he's read too many blogs lately.

There are tin foil hats, we're just all online!

[SouthernBelle82]

31. This is what is scary

and very worrisom. I wonder if the democrats do take back the government if he would do that and bypass everything and declare martial law. It's a very scary though and I'm sure they already have people lined up from wiretaps and everything. How else do you think Hitler knew who to get? Spying.

[elehhhhna]

35. The Rwanda model is faster and cheaper.

What's not to like, from Bush's perspective?

[pacalo]

33. It's like we're in the Twilight Zone episode, "It's a Good Life"...

We're at the mercy of an immature, evil child who goes against reason, with no one to rein him in.

...A monster had arrived at the village. Just by using his mind, he took away the automobiles, the electricity, the machines, because they displeased him, and he moved an entire community back into the dark ages. Just by using his mind...

Twilight Zone - It’s A Good Life

[AntiFascist]

36. kickety, kickety, kick, kick....KICK and R!

Sometimes I feel like strangling people with my tin foil.

[Kerrytravelers]

37. Glad to know I'm not alone in that thought.

[Vidar]

40. Wilson is absolutely right.

[smirkymonkey]

41. K&R!

:kick:

[Cha]

42. Yeah, it's good to be reminded

that bush said .."just a G-dd*mn piece of paper" some months ago."..about our Constitution. I had forgotten that.


That's right..we don't need no stinking tinfoil.

[KittyWampus]

45. Bush Does NOT "Have The Military"

[Myrmidon]

47. Because the stores are all sold out of foil

We're all conspiracy theorists now, because it is SO obvious that our government is conspiring around us and against us. Just choose which particular horrifying and unconstitutional conspiracy you're willing to accept.

[Aviation Pro]

51. I have faith in the leadership of the Armed Forces.....

...that they respect the oath they took, to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Any attempt by Little Monkey and his criminal cabal to breech the foundation of our country after a legal election has taken place would be met with force in kine.

[young_at_heart]

55. If Clinton had called the Constitution a g/d piece of paper, there would have been riots

Several people have evidently confirmed this outrage and yet nothing happened. WHY???

[lovuian]

56. There is going to be a civil war

I can't believe every state is going to go along with his marshall law plan...

[BigBearJohn]

57. a sobering thought occurred to me: After every heinous crime already commited by this admin, there

is basically NOTHING that they will not to do stay in power. NOTHING.
The possibilities stagger the mind.

"These truly are the times that try men's souls."

[upi402]

59. and i wonder what we're going to do

just more justifiable complaining?
maybe hope a group of our devotedly patriotic activists try to effect change?