Damage Control for Haggard - His accuser fails polygraph test

[ck4829]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2562453

What does this mean? Absolutely nothing. Polygraph Tests aren't worth the paper they're written on. Mike Jones may have been nervous or something. Expect RW'ers to harp on about this though.

[AlCzervik]

1. means nothing because Haggard already admitted he did something, what i dunno

i often step down when i'm innocent as well.:sarcasm:

You can't unring the bell Pastor Ted.

[FARAFIELD]

22. Read the whole article it said he failed it because of Stress

THE LEAD was that he failed but if you you read the whole thing the guy that gave the TeSt said that he wouldnt accept the results because the person taking it, hasnt been sleeping and is under stress the last thing the test giver says is he would suggest they take it in a weak. SO as typical right winger news, but not because he was lying.

[AlCzervik]

23. i did read it and like i said Haggard already admitted to something

so there is definitely a There-there.

[Oceansaway]

2. .

the idiot resigned fast....that says it all to me....

[zbdent]

13. Almost beat Foley's time

didn't he?

I think that Foley resigned before the news really hit the fan ...

[electron_blue]

3. LOL. All this does is 'bump' it in the news. If they want to bury it, let it die

Too funny, let them deny it vigorously, just draws even more attention to it.

[Cronus Protagonist]

30. Vote the story UP in Yahoo!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061103/ap_on_re_us/haggard_sex_allegations

[progressivebydesign]

4. WHY is everyone pushing this?? It was not a law enforcement polygraph.

The guy giving the polygraph said he saw "deceptions" in the answers. That is not failure. WHY are there so many threads today about this? Makes me wonder.. hmmmmm...

[ck4829]

6. You have to admit it's better than seeing a Kerry "apologize now" thread though

[Hepburn]

15. The guy is...

...a gay, male prostitute who deals illegal drugs. Is there anyone who thinks that there would be NO signs of deception in what he says? You think maybe, just maybe, he was a bit anxious, to say the least, about his profession and what he sells? Being anxious CAN and DOES screw up LD tests.

GMAFB! :eyes:

That assumption is the polygraph's chief flaw, says Drew Richardson, a retired polygraph researcher for the FBI who is now an outspoken critic of the test. "Blood pressure, respiration, and so forth are all physiological parameters which we have been able to measure very accurately for a very long period of time," he says. "People confuse the fact that we can accurately measure these with the fact that we can't accurately connect these with emotional causes." Indeed, no study exists to support a universal correlation between, say, sweaty palms and prevarication. And a polygraph cannot differentiate between anxiety caused by dishonesty and anxiety caused by other factors.

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2002/11/ma_148_01.html

The machine works by measuring ANXIETY levels....only the fundies would be dumb enough to think that in some manner this LD test exonerates Haggard in any manner. All the test shows, IMO, is that Jones was nervous about something....and that does NOT mean he was lying.

[hughee99]

5. In all fairness, if he had passed the polygraph

I think there would be more than a few DUers who would be quick to point to this as evidence. Personally, I think polygraphs are effective a majority of the time they're used (maybe 55-65%) but not anywhere near as reliable as they'd need to be to be cited as evidence of anything.

[Ravy]

You are right. However, the fact that he agreed to take a polygraph

must mean something.

[hughee99]

21. I'm just wondering why

he would have been confident enough to voluntarily take a polygraph but too nervous to pass it.

On edit: What I'm saying is that if he failed the test because of nerves, he probably wasn't really taking it voluntarily, and if he did really take it willingly, then nerves probably wasn't why he failed it.

[noamnety]

25. I'm a pro when it comes to flunking polygraphs

I've been in that situation before - volunteered for a polygraph, and then flunked it.

There was zero pressure on me to take it - I wasn't asked to, but I was the one informing others they had to take it, so I asked if they could do me as well.

If you're the sort of person that overthinks things and can see both sides of an issue, they are useless. But unless you've had one in the past, you don't really get that aspect of them, I think. If I remember right, I think something like 4 out of 7 of us flunked it on the first attempt.

[Ravy]

29. I saw his interview on MSNBC. I think he was telling the truth.

I don't think he anticipated failing the lie detector test. It was sponsored by a radio station and I am sure he took it willingly in anticipation of passing. Talking about a story with national significance with a sexual nature probably made him overly nervous, although he did not exhibit that in the interview.

[Ms. Clio]

24. no, I wouldn't, anymore than I would think it meaningful if Haggard himself

"passed" a polygraph.

They are pseudo-scientific witchcraft.

[bluestateguy]

7. Correct me if I'm wrong here

but as I understand it, aren't polygraph test results only admissible in Court if the person passes the test? And if the person fails the test, it's not admissible as evidence?

[sandnsea]

9. I don't think they're admissable at all

I've never heard of it. :shrug:

[Hepburn]

16. I can only speak for Calif...

Polygraph evidence not admissible in any criminal proceedings unless all parties stipulate to admission. Cal. Evidence Code § 351.1.

[gfnrob]

8. He's a meth dealer, of course he's deceptive!

[redqueen]

10. Of course it means nothing - Haggard has confessed to *something*.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x2345

[NOLADEM]

11. IT MEANS NOTHING...Lie detectors are inaccurate...they are irresponsible to even use

They are not scientific instruments anymore than the little bullshit contraptions Scientologists use to scam you.

The guy resigned, admitted to it and went into hiding. What more proof does one need?

How about some voice messages from him asking for sex for money and drugs? Oh, well, we got that too.

There is NO denying this.
This guy is toast.
Hope he loses EVERYTHING. Wife, kids, money, respect. This hypocritical pig deserves to lose it all.

[AlCzervik]

14. Ding Ding Ding--we have a winner!

if Pastor Ted had only waited he could have maybe saved himself but he must have a very heavy heart and guilty conscience and needed to confess.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Considering that Haggard confessed...

maybe they should give Haggard a polygraph too?

:rofl:

[niyad]

17. haggard admits "some indiscretions, part of story true"

So Boyles invited Jones to take a polygraph test at 5 a.m. this morning.

The test administrator, John Kresnik, said Jones' score indicated "deceptions" in his answers. However, Kresnik said he doubted the accuracy of the test he administered because of the recent stress on Jones and his inability to eat or sleep, according to KHOW producer Greg Hollenback.

Kresnik suggested that Jones be re-tested early next week after he was rested.
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4597552



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The full text of the e-mail follows:

From: Pastor Ross Parsley

Sent: Thursday, November 02, 2006 11:00 PM

To: #New Life Staff

Subject: Update from Pastor Ross

Dear New Lifers and friends of New Life Church,

Many of you have expressed concern about today's news regarding our pastor. Thank you all for your prayers and support, and for your concern for our church family.

As you've likely heard by now, Pastor Ted has voluntarily placed himself on administrative leave as New Life's senior pastor to allow our external board of overseers to work effectively. Below is the statement that we released to the media on Thursday afternoon.

Since that time, the board of overseers has met with Pastor Ted. It is important for you to know that he confessed to the overseers that some of the accusations against him are true. He has willingly and humbly submitted to the authority of the board of overseers, and will remain on administrative leave during the course of the investigation.

I am serving as the acting senior pastor of New Life Church. I met with the pastoral staff and elders Thursday night, and I assure you that the leadership team is strong and united. We remain resolute in our commitment to serving New Life Church and the people of our community.

Please continue to keep Ted and Gayle and their family in your prayers.

I love serving God with you all,

Ross Parsley


http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4597813

[npincus]

18. he recorded phone conversations with Haggard

so it will either be confrimed or disproven. Solid evidence of a relationship.

[Shakespeare]

19. The man who administered it said it was given under too much stress....

...and is essentially meaningless. Plus, Haggard already confessed. Non-story.

[slingsam]

20. Its a flawed Polygraph.....Haggerty is Elmer! Without a doubt!

taken while under duress and 2 hours of sleep.........

So...think nothing of it.....

Its Elmer Gantry all over again........................

[marmar]

26. Desperately clutching at straws....

:nopity:

[Dr Fate]

27. So why did he leave his job then? n/t

n/t

[Swamp Rat]

28. The "truth" about polygraph tests is that they are a "lie."

Polygraph tests do not test for the "truth." They test for bodily reactions to stimuli which are then inaccurately translated into and superimposed upon predetermined qualitative constructs.