Is abortion more traumatic then rape?!

[booley]

I am not posting this to flame. Or becuase I think abortion is worse then rape (I mean, who the hell willingly gets raped...can you even choose to be raped?)

BUT then I heard this guy on Democracy Now! talking about the S. Dakota abortion law (what looks like the most restrictive in the country) and how he supports it and he said that studies had found that women who were raped and had abortions were more traumatized by the abortion then by the rape.

Gee, that didnt' seem right to me. But I admit I have never been raped nor had an abortion. But I have talked to women who have had abortions and they dont' describe it as akin too or worse then rape.

The guy, Dr. Allen Unruh, then went into how no one cares about the most weak and helpless of society but theo-cons like him and I turned off the TV in disgust.

But here's the link to the piece.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/11/03/1431244

Am I just over reacting or does this guy seem like a mysogynistic hyppocrit and all around callous choad?

[gfnrob]

1. I think

maybe forced abortion is.

[booley]

4. yeah but

we aren't talking about that.

This bill isn't about stopping forced abortions.

[devilgrrl]

10. "forced abortion"

You wouldn't happen to have any cases of "forced abortion" that you can cite?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. There are the forced abortions in the Tom Delay...

Jack Abramoff/Ralph Reed/George W. Bush scandal. Women in sweatshops in the Marianas Islands were forced to have abortions.

Only example I can think of.

[gfnrob]

15. No, and I'm not trying to argue that,

just a lame attempt to make your point. My Bad. :hippie:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. I think...

that forced pregnancies are.

[BattyDem]

3. He's a man ... he's never experienced either

How the hell would he know? :wtf:

[booley]

5. I'm a man

but i sure as hell never confused abortion with rape.

[BattyDem]

8. I'm sorry ... it was not my intent to offend men or to imply that all men can't understand

I just get so freakin' angry when I hear these self-righteous assholes proclaiming that they have all the answers about rape and abortion. They conduct a skewed study (and we all know it was skewed) and they want to use that study to determine what rights a woman can and cannot have when it comes to her own body.

I can hear him now:
"Exceptions to the abortion ban in cases of rape? That's not necessary. In fact, it will only make matters worse because studies show that abortion is far more traumatic than rape."

:grr: :grr: :grr:

edited for clarity

[zanne]

37. True. No uterus.....

No opinion. Sorry, but that's life.

[Greyhound]

6. Just another asshole trying ot compensate for his tiny penis.

When a position starts with such an absurd assumption, why give him a thought at all?

[MissB]

7. The anti-choice people always like to pull that one out of the hat.

It goes hand in hand with the idea that women are helpless creatures, unable to make the most basic decisions for their own lives.

[azurnoir]

9. Ah, short answer NO

one is by chioce the other is not, you can not choose to be raped, if you do it's no longer rape. Forced pregnancy is however similar to a 10 month long rape.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

11. Um since one is a decision that the woman chooses for her body, and the

other is a violent sex crime that is inflicted upon her against her will, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that the violent sex crime against one's will is the more traumatic!

The guy taking this position (at the link you provided) is apparently a chiropractor. Some authority, he.

[yurbud]

12. I am not a fan of abortion, but having run into several women who have had

abortions, most seem to not be very bothered by it.

I had one woman friend who had an unwanted pregnancy but finished out the pregnancy and put the kid up for adoption.

I said something to her about admirable it was and blah blah blah, and she said, "I wished I had just got an abortion." She saw the kid and said it tore her guts out to give it away and know her baby was out there with someone else.

The real kicker in that story was the guy who got her pregnant and insisted she get rid of the kid later married her.

I had a younger friend who got pregnant as a sophomore in high school and got an abortion so she wouldn't have to drop out of high school (this was back in the late 70s). She didn't seem to feel bad about it at all. And the next year, she dropped out of high school, and married the guy who had gotten her pregnant.

[Justpat]

13. ignorant argument

Rape is an act of violence. Having an abortion in order to control
your own reproductive choices cannot be compared to rape.

IT is a disgusting argument and is the type of thinking of the
religious, emotional neanderthals who feel they have a right to
control women's choices.

[KyndCulture]

18. Absolutely!

Ridiculous argument... a medical procedure vs. rape?

pulease.

[Fleshdancer]

16. I wonder what "studies" he's citing in the first place

One of the many things that bother me when disussing rape is the disgusting assumption that since the vagina is a sexual organ, then forcing it to have sex isn't traumatic or painful physically or emotionally. The whole "rape is like the weather" mentality is truly sick. How anyone can discount the trauma of torture is beyond me.

[BattyDem]

24. The "study" was probably conducted by another RWer

We've seen this before:

One RW organization makes a claim and they use "research" by another RW organization to support that claim. :eyes:

[Hidden Stillness]

17. There are No Findings of Trauma/Regret etc. for Abortion or Post-Abortion

At least twice during the 1980s--once during the Reagan Administration and once during Bush Senior--the National Institutes of Health were used politically to do studies of women who had had abortions, hoping, praying, wishing, that they had suffered trauma and depression. "Sadly," there was no such finding, there were no lingering bad effects, and they did not find the hoped-for "regret" among women who had had abortions. They found ordinary mental health and personality screens for women who had had abortions. Both times, the results of the studies were censored. It came out later, as always, by whistleblowers, and I read/heard about it, I think from NOWor the Fund for the Feminist Majority.

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. There are, of course, some women who regret having abortions.

Just as there are people who regret dropping out of school, regret getting married, regret having an affair. That doesn't indicate trauma, and it certainly is not axiomatic that an abortion will cause regret, any more than any other potentially life-changing event would. But the fundies love to find those few (how many have spoken out? a few dozen, out of millions?) and trumpet their experience as the norm.

[KyndCulture]

19. Having experienced both in my life..

I can emphatically call this argument one of the most ignorant things I've ever seen.


A sterile medical procedure vs. an act of criminal violence? That's horseshit.

[Pathwalker]

20. Not just no, but HELL NO -

and this is insulting!

[Ohio Joe]

21. Apples and oranges

I don't even see that it is a valid comparison.

[AngryOldDem]

22. I've stopped listening to the rhetoric

How the hell can anyone -- let alone a man -- generalize on this?

I think it would be safe to say that for every woman who has undergone one or the other or both, no two reactions are the same. It's highly personal, and private...as the whole abortion issue should be.

[omega minimo]

23. Is troll shit worse "then" bull shit?

:evilfrown:

Consider the source, booley.

[MADem]

25. Dr. Allen Unruh

Ah yes, yet another clown without a uterus telling those who do in fact have one how they should feel, and what they should do with their own body part.

I suggest all the women out there put their hands over their uteri, and say a pledge, that includes telling this guy and others of his ilk to stick his package up his own ass and stop telling the ladies what they may or may not do with their own bodies.

I rather doubt this guy would be too thrilled if a cadre of females made rules about the circumstances of male reproduction--for example, more than two kids? Get the scissors!!! Too bad if they're ugly, or not the "right" gender, and ya wanted to knock up that good looking lady in hopes of not having offspring with your toady features--you've had your two...up on the table now, or we'll grab you and strap you down!!!!

[agates]

28. Dr. Unruh *has* a uterus

He "owns" his wife's and she's OK with that. They are a couple of wackos and the prime movers behind the abortion ban in SD. He was on the SD Task Force whose totally biased report was used by the state legislature as the basis for the ban. BTW, he's a chirporactor, not an MD or DO.

[MADem]

32. Well, if his old lady ever gets a hysterectomy, she should save the thing and use it to

beat the ever-loving shit out of that blowhard she married!

[porphyrian]

26. It's fallacy to believe you can compare the two.

They are completely different situations. Is it more traumatic to who? That's like asking if it's more painful for a man to pass a kidney stone or a woman to give birth. Too many dissimilar factors.

[AnnieBW]

27. Is He Related

To the woman in charge of the pro-ban forces, Susan Unruh? It's an awfully distinctive last name. Just wonderin, ya know.

[agates]

29. That would be Leslee

Yes, husband and wife. Truly nasty people.

Don't forget Leslee's legal problems -- she was under investigation for buying babies. The felony charges disappeared in a plea agreement. More here: http://www.plannedparenthood.org/news-articles-press/politics-policy-issues/abortion-access/leslee-unruh-6248.htm

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

30. On rape: "as long as it's inevitable, you might as well lie back and enjoy it."

Republican candidate for Texas governor in 1990, Clayton Williams. He was narrowly defeated by Ann Richards.

It appears that Dr. Unruh shares the same perspective about women as Clayton.

[mondo joe]

33. I couldn't say, personally, but I would have to think that anything I choose

to do a) would be less traumatic than something forced on me; b)even if it were traumatic should be my choice.

[boolean]

34. Can we all just agree that they both suck in their own special ways?

[Hidden Stillness]

35. What??

Abortion "sucks"? What the hell are you talking about? "They both"? What the hell are you talking about?

[Phillycat]

36. An even more important and interesting question...

WHY the F is anyone posing this ridiculous moronic question 4 days before the midterm elections? Hmmmmm? Are they just running out of Clinton material or what?