Is anyone aware of this?

[olshak]

According to what I have reading tonight, the United States is about to become only the fourth nation to ever require prior consent for its citizens to travel abroad. The other three? North Korea, the Soviet Union, and Nazi Germany. The slippery slope is becoming an avalanche.

http://papersplease.org/wp/2006/10/12/mother-may-i/">From PapersPlease.org
If anyone knows about this, please tell me if this requires Congressional approval, or only DHS approval.


Should you have to ask for permission from the government before you are allowed to get on a plane or cruise ship?

The Department of Homeland Security has proposed that airlines and cruise ships be required to get individual permission (”clearance”) from the DHS for each individual passenger on all flights to, from, or via the U.S. Unless the answer is “Yes” — if the answer is “no” or “maybe”, or if the DHS doesn’t answer at all — the airline wouldn’t be allowed to give you a boarding pass, or let you or your luggage on the plane or ship.

The Identity Project, along with the World Privacy Forum and John Gilmore, has filed comments with the DHS objecting to this proposal as a violation of international human rights, First Amendment rights, and privacy and government accountability laws.

This is the third of three identification-related “rulemakings” in the last month and a half in which the DHS has proposed to restrict the right to travel. IDP has filed formal objections to each of these proposals:

* Expansion of US-VISIT fingerprinting, photographing, and lifetime dossiers on visitors to include permanent U.S. residents (green card holders)
* The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative to require passports for travel between the U.S., Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Latin America
* Conversion of the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) for international ships and plane travel into an advance permission system

[SeattleGirl]

1. I read something about this last week, but I can't recall where.

I read so many different web sites, that I can't recall. Holy crap, I hope they don't get away with this shit.

[olshak]

2. This is scary...

...V for Vendetta is not looking that far fetched anymore.

[SeattleGirl]

8. It IS scary, isn't it?

Why wouldn't they want people to leave the country to travel? This thought just occurred to me too -- I bet companies who do business overseas won't be too happy with this, if their employees are hassled or prevented from going to other countries.

[BootinUp]

21. Its not the reasons that are wrong, its the methods they use

to prevent terrorism. IOW, they don't realize how quickly these laws can be used to commit violations of the common mans liberties. From the vantage point of the rich and powerful these laws are not much of a threat to freedom.

[Tigress DEM]

57. In theory it isn't really terrible.... BUT

In theory you just want to confirm that everyone who leaves your country is a legitimate resident with no criminal background or possible reason to hijack a plane and cause problems for example.

In the hands of people drunk with power it is a weapon to use against anyone who might fly somewhere and find out the dirty little secrets they are hiding. Like journalists.

All the human rights groups that have gone into areas and fought for truth and justice who put themselves in harms way to bring us information about what is really going on have been a thorn in the administration's side.... humanizing the impact our actions have by putting faces and names to the concept of war and collateral damage.

[Quixote1818]

3. Someone sent me an email on this today. nt

[itsmesgd]

4. just wait for the Real ID's to take effect in May 2008

There will be RFID chips in the passports. They will know who you are without even saying "papers please" as soon as you walk through the door and your id or passport will be read by a scanner.

It's like Big Brother on steriods with roid-rage in full effect.

[olshak]

5. I had heard about that...

...I just might be living in New Zealand by then if this continues.

[itsmesgd]

27. don't leave. stay and fight for the homeland.

I am not advocating anything here, but I decided not to leave. I have seen the way that the insurgents (oppressed locals) handled our troops. Plus with all of the other gun-totin Bubbas and Jimbos around here, I dont think that they would even try to violently oppress the US citizenry. I would hope that they would not order the troops to turn on the citizens. I have talked with many troops around here (that are about to be redeployed for the third time) and they have said that the mutterings adrift are that they would quit and join our side if ordered to operate domestically. I also believe that a majority of law enforcement officers would not follow orders to arrest the citizens.

I believe that it would be a "bloodless coup" if martial law were declared. So don't leave, be prepared to stand up.

[olshak]

30. Thank you...

for expressing that. I know that no one here is advocating for a violent overthrow of the US government, but I am anticipating a day when many people may have to give their lives in defense of freedom against the government. And mentally, I am in that fight...I am just so pissed and freaked that fleeing sounds like a good idea.

But I am raising three kids. I am not raising them to be passive sheep or compliant cogs in the great war machine. And frankly I'd rather die as an example so they know that there are some things worth fighting for.

[itsmesgd]

31. fair enough, you're a family man

I'm a single guy with absolutely nothing to lose. And there is nothing more dangerous than a man with nothing to lose. I'm fortunate that I can act to defend ideals.
I contemplating leaving, but changed my mind. This is my country, not theirs. Many of my people were here first (Muskogee Creek, Lakota, and some Old South Cracker mixed in). There is still a large number of Native Americans who believe that we have been told that we will have the opportunity to reclaim our territory that was given to us by the Great Creator long before the white man showed up. If you know anything about Native American prophecy, the visionary Black Elk spoke of a "seventh generation" that will reunite the circle that has been broken. Doing the math puts the seventh generation right about now from those in their early 40's down to the early 20's.

In the Spirit of Crazy Horse
sgd

[exlrrp]

52. When guns are outlawed, only conservatives will have guns.

Every liberal and/or Democrat should own guns--its your right as well as the conservatives. Teach your kids how to own and use them safely so they don't learn how on the streets
get em now before its too late

[corkhead]

71. I had a spontaneous response, but instead I stole from a post I wrote earlier this week

I think next Tuesday is our last best hope. If it doesn’t turn out the way we all expect, I will be greatly disappointed and maybe even more disillusioned, but I will not be looking for a new homestead in the Manitoba wilderness. If things don’t turn out the way we all expect, there is not going to be a safe place anywhere on the planet. We will need to fight them here, so we don’t have to fight them there, wherever “there” is, and as Dog as my witness, I will be HERE to do it.

Regardless of the results next Tuesday, I won’t be leaving DU or the Democratic party. Instead, I will continue to work to take back OUR party from the self serving corporatists who have infiltrated it. I will do that by supporting the next Ned Lamont in a future primary. No matter the result, I will be fighting even harder for election reform. Even though my senator up for reelection, Debbie Stabenow, disappointed me greatly by supporting the bankruptcy and torture bills, nothing would be accomplished by my staying home Tuesday. She already knows she has my vote… this time.

[mom cat]

78. If you can get permission to leave the country.

[Dangerously Amused]

76. My guess:

The scanners won't be just at the airports, either. Many U.S. entities located abroad will be wired in... embassies and military bases for sure, but also other government-related places and even private American businesses located in high-traffic areas. It won't be a difficult concept to sell to the businesses, either: "Hey, the U.S. will offer you free protection against potential American-citizen terrorists! Just let us install this scanner and if a potential American-citizen terrorist with a chip is in the area, we'll alert you and the local police." Just, you know... to kinda keep track of people when they travel abroad.

Then when we've caught a terrorist or two (wink wink) with that program the PNAC/BFEE will work with allied governments to get their cooperation in installing the same chips in their national passports, and the same scanners at transition points in their country. To track the terrorists, you see. And then, why gosh... we'd be downright foolish if we didn't plant even more scanners everywhere within our own country to keep track of those questionable foreigners/potential terrorists traveling with chipped passports. Right? All in the name of Homeland Security.


How long after that do you think it will be before our driver's licenses and/or non-driving IDs will be chipped... "to help prevent identity theft/to make our lives easier when we have to show ID/to help prevent prescription fraud and fight the war on drugs/to expedite the process and minimize mistakes in traffic stops/to help prevent tax evasion/etc", and the government will be able to follow anyone around like a big game of Sims?

[redphish]

6. You have got to be fucking kidding me.

These nazis just keep dragging us deeper and deeper into 1984. Maybe that wall they're building is to keep US from jumping ship if things get too bad.

:scared:

[niallmac]

7. Ice Water ran in my veins the very first I heard of this Homeland Security.

The fact that our representatives in the Congress and the Senate have allowed us to sink up to
our necks in fascist ubber Alles nationalist bull shit is so incomprehensible to me
I sometimes go crazy thinking about it! Did our reps take any history classes, any
literature classes?

[olshak]

12. ice water is a good way to describe it...

...I don't think I have ever felt such a rush of rage and fear as when I read the information tonight. I am going to post a position paper being filed with the government that is a very good read. I will post the link.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

14. The very word "homeland" is scary to me.

I thought the passport rules had already been changed. Saw something on this in a travel newsletter about the dates the new passport requirements go into effect.

[WinkyDink]

43. The very moment Bush first uttered "Homeland", I thought, "NAZI".

If he could have used "Vaterland", he would have. Just like his Grampa.

It is a Fascist precept to obliterate history , and attempting to sever linguistically our ties to our REAL "homelands" (e.g., Europe, Africa) is a major step in that direction.

[doubleplusgood]

48. I thought the same thing myself

Homeland Security = Heimat Sicherheit

God, I hate the term "Homeland". It reminded me of a pre-WWII Nazi propaganda movie in which a displaced German laments about how terrible it is to not have a "heimat" (homeland), probably referring to territoties Germany lost after WWI.

[acmejack]

15. I'm with you on that.

The NID was another one & when they put Negroponte in there. This whole cabal has given me the creeps, all of these guys were bad news before (twice)! Henry "This election is too important to be decided by the voters" Kissinger and his merry band are building their perfect State, they are the overlords and we are the vassals. But don't mind me, I'm merely a Conspiracy Theorist-there is a contingent here that will be happy to tell you that I'm unbalanced.

[niallmac]

36. It takes very little imagination to see where all this goes.

'Unbalanced' is the term they will apply to those who disagree with the policies of the State.

[motocicleta]

24. Absolutely.

A wee bit too close "the Fatherland" for my taste, which of course always sounds like the kind of idea that will end with genocide. The USA must recover quickly or we can find that road like other nations have.

[JohnyCanuck]

46. Homeland Security is so much more subtle

than Fatherland Security which is what they'd really like to name it, but they probably figured that would be just too blatant even for the freeper sheep to tolerate.

[kestrel91316]

9. That fence on the Mexico border - maybe they don't want it

for keeping illegals OUT, but for keeping fleeing Americans IN??

[guyton]

16. yup

I was wondering if the barb-wire on the top of that fence would be tilting to the north

[mmonk]

37. Fences work the same from either side.

And on a side note, what free democracies build walls (not including Israel in this)?

[Bruichladdich]

87. Thats it, exactly. n/t

[sam sarrha]

10. so do we have to join the party and wear an armband to get a job now..??

[smirkymonkey]

11. Holy Shite!

The only thing that keeps me going sometimes is the hope of getting the hell out of here.

Travel abroad is one of my greatest passions - If I couldn't leave, I would probably become a very destructive member of society. :scared:

[acmejack]

20. Not to worry.

That is exactly what they want! They will teach new & better methods, equip you with the best technology, & then send you overseas to be very destructive to societies. How do you look in camo?

[Mabus]

13. Can't have all those draft age kids leaving now can we? n/t

[lonestarnot]

17. Wagner playing louder and louder, but I think we can drown it out

some.

[olshak]

18. HERE IS THE LINK

This is from The Identity Project, posted in my own site folders.

http://www.olshak.com/pdf/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf

[Jcrowley]

25. Thanks for that

How do you put up a link for a pdf file?

[olshak]

26. I just...

...gave you the path to the folder where I keep it in my web site. It's not actually posted on my site yet, just stored there.

[babylonsister]

19. I just don't see it. They can't keep their 'no-fly' list current; how

do they plan on weeding through the mountains of paperwork that would ensue? And good luck getting the airlines and cruise ships to go along with it.

[readmoreoften]

38. No paperwork. New passports get RFID chips. Everyone's info in one database.

A computer click, you don't fly. Your passport no longer works. Capiche?

[olshak]

22. Approval

I don't know if I am just missing the obvious, but where is this going for approval? It is supposed to take effect in February, 2007.

[druidity33]

44. already approved?... nt

[Rainscents]

23. This country had gone deep end!

When will all shit stop?

[Imagevision]

28. Next they'll be asking for proof of where you obtained the funds for your travel

[me b zola]

51. We are already teetering on that precipice

There was a story that came out last month about a group of three men, I believe that they were Mexican, that were pulled over. The law enforcement officer searched their vehicle--there was never a clear reason given by the officer for the search--a large sum of money was found. The money was confiscated and never returned to the men. The police said that there was no reason for large amounts of cash except to assume that the money was going to be used in the drug trade.

Sorry I don't have a link, but it was a very disturbing story. Oh, and it was MSM who reported the story.

[davekriss]

29. I'll never forget Chalmers Johnson in 2004...

...or thereabouts, doing a BookTV thing on CSPAN2 when The Sorrows of Empire was published, said that we should "plan our outs now", buy that villa in Costa Rica or condo in Vancouver, because when the gates shut they will shut very tight and there will be no getting out.

Any student of history and current events can see the sh*t coming. As Hunter Thompson once wrote, Big Dark coming, soon.

[itsmesgd]

32. don't leave, you'll miss all the fun

Iraq is one tenth the size of the US. The Iraqi insurgence is giving our troops a hard time, plus I dont think that "our" troops would turn their guns on "us". If they did however, remember that there are thousands of legal gun owners in the "fly-over states". We would get to see the 2nd Amendment put to the use that our fore fathers pictured when they put in down in writing.

Not advocating anything here, but I do ask that, if possible, you should stay to keep control of your country.

sgd
(PS. hello agent smith, out there. just a little 1st Amend. exercise in here)

[williesgirl]

33. Is this constitutional? Not that that matters to repukes but is it?

[DRoseDARs]

34. International travel not a written right, but USSC has ruled in '58 and '99.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_movement

-snip-

United States

In the United States, no specific law guarantees this right, but the Supreme Court of the United States has held in a number of cases that such a right necessarily exists. In Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116 (1958), the United States Secretary of State had refused to issue a passport, based on the suspicion that the plaintiff was going abroad to promote communism. Justice William O. Douglas wrote for the Court:

The right to travel is a part of the 'liberty' of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment. . . . Freedom of movement across frontiers in either direction, and inside frontiers as well, was a part of our heritage. Travel abroad, like travel within the country, . . . may be as close to the heart of the individual as the choice of what he eats, or wears, or reads. Freedom of movement is basic in our scheme of values.

The U.S. Supreme Court dealt with the right of interstate travel most recently in the case of Saenz v. Roe, 526 U.S. 489 (1999). In that case, Justice John Paul Stevens, writing for the majority, held that the United States Constitution protected three separate aspects of the right to travel among the states: the right to enter one state and leave another, the right to be treated as a welcome visitor rather than a hostile stranger (protected by the Privileges and Immunities Clause in Article IV, §2), and for those who become permanent residents of a state, the right to be treated equally to native born citizens (this is protected by the 14th Amendment Privileges or Immunities clause).

The issue of freedom of movement has received new attention in the United States as of 2004; in particular, concerning the methods and internal practices of the Transportation Security Administration.

Another issue of contention deals with freedom of movement across U.S. national borders. The United States has long been lax in permitting persons to cross from Canada into the United States. Concerns about drug trafficking and illegal immigrants seeking employment have led to much stricter controls on those crossing the border from Mexico.

-snip-

[olshak]

35. Thanks for this post n/t

[Hissyspit]

84. It is in violation of the International Declaration of Human Rights of which the U.S. is a signatory

the best I can tell without doing additional research.

[WHAT]

39. Never the less, people can transcend the scope of their existence...

the "idea" is more expansive than the path from A to B. sic. travel.

I think of it as akin to a religious movement in that there is a "jump"/ an "awakening" and I think the global awareness that galvanizes focus is an awareness of multiple possabilities...elastic, encompassing perceptions that surpass physical restraints on travel, if you will. It is intrinsic in the way we communicate, the way we know each other. Know is a much more powerful motivator than no...more fun. It satisfies a hunger more closely resembling the biblical meaning of the word.

So, the "no" of constriction is reactionary, defensive, a weaker, sublimated acquiesce that doesn't fully satisfy...who wants to go to that party?

It begs the question of relevance...six sides to a box and which side is most important...ha, ha.

[liberalla]

40. Yes, I'd heard about this recently...

Just another assault on our freedoms. Damn! I'm getting 'outrage fatigue'. It seems every day there's one or two new encroachments on our rights. If I think about it a lot, I can get pretty discouraged. I have to focus on the good things that are happening. We have reason to be optimistic. Once we wrest control from these neocon criminals we can begin to repair the damage... There's SO MUCH to be done!

Thanks for posting this and the links. I'm bookmarking for future reference.

[earth mom]

41. * & Co still has 2 more years left...

:scared:

[RestoreGore]

42. Papieren Bitte?

I think this is only the beginning and it is sad because even if Democrats win on Tuesday, we have already handed this country over to Fascists with Democrats who say impeachment is off the table. Bush literally now has the powers of a Dictator, and we can be held hostage either in or out of our own country. He even has the power to now declare martial law, and detain us in "detention centers." This is honestly why I am not excited about voting next week, even though I will. It's going to take more than one election to fight this.

[Bruichladdich]

53. I suggest the movie "demolition man"

with Sylvester Stallone.

Its visions must have impressed this gov. in an outstanding way.

BTW: its " Papiere bitte " ;-)

I have stopped travelling to the states in the moment Bush won the elections. He seemed evil to me from first sight.

[RestoreGore]

58. Saw it...

Scary, especially the part where Schwarzenegger was actually elected President. And I know what you mean. I had a neighbor who died a couple of years ago at 98 (God bless her) who came from Poland, and was there during the Nazi invasion. She told me Bush is evil, and she knows because she stared it in the face. I have talked to a few people from the "old country" in my town who had the same response to Bush, and I agree. Unfortunately, for all of that, he is still being allowed to remain in power which absolutely boggles my mind. And oh, I believe it is papieren, as papieren is the plural of papiere... unless my high school German is rustier than I thought. ;-).

[Bruichladdich]

86. I thought of this movie when I saw DU ( this forum ) first time

because the Democrats of the movie had to live underground.

It took me some time to understand that this is more a forum for the party than for democracy in its own meaning.

What I loved best about this movie were the tickets, he received for using " bad words" and he ignored them so cool :-) :smoke:

Sorry to come back to this subject but: Papier is singular, Papiere is plural, and Papieren in the 4th case ( Akkusativ ) like when you would say: You can find it all in the papers, then you use "Papieren". But if you say : the papers are useful, you use "Papiere" :-) Easy, isn't it?

No its not, I know. But I am German, so I can handle it ;-)

But can you explain me, whats a tinfoil-hat? I have not found out yet, but read it so often?

[Mythsaje]

77. "I can't imagine what cops did in the 'old days.'"

"We worked for a living. This fascist crap makes me sick."

Maybe not an EXACT quote, but close.

I love that movie.

[Tigress DEM]

59. "Impeachment being off the table" until after elections is not bad.

Rethugs were running scare ads about how the DEMs would be so tied up in impeachment or other judicial process that the country would come to a screeching halt.

TWO WORDS in the DNC vision statement provide for impeachment without having to wave it in the voter's face before election... "honest government".

What mainstream voters who are ready to leave behind the present administration have forgotten is that DEMs hire people who can not only do the job they are hired to do, but can multi-task. The DEMs aren't making an issue of impeachment before the election because the rethugs were portraying that is all we would be capable of doing if elected. The decision to focus on telling the people the goals we have to restore the country is smart because it forces the debates to be about having a plan to restore the country from the rethugs... and we know that when it comes to doing the job they are elected to do rethugs are sorely out of ammunition and being shot in the back by their own commander in theif, it's a better overall strategy.

http://www.democrats.org/a/party/stand.html

The Democratic Vision

The Democratic Party is committed to keeping our nation safe and expanding opportunity for every American. That commitment is reflected in an agenda that emphasizes the security of our nation, strong economic growth, affordable health care for all Americans, retirement security, honest government, and civil rights.

[RestoreGore]

60. Who Cares What Republicans Do?

Why are Democrats so AFRAID of what they say? Tell them they are full of shit and that we can walk and chew gum at the same time! Over fifty percent of Americans WANT impeachment according to polls. I hope they don't fold on this, because this is going to decide what I do regarding voting in 2008. Just because they may "win" the House and Senate Tuesday doesn't mean they are off the hook either. Impeaching these traitors to our Constitution is a matter of national security.

[Tigress DEM]

62. It isn't "caring" so much as strategy.

I am in full agreement that these people need to be impeached and as soon as we have DEM butts in the seats required, but it's not an issue to run and election on because it allows the rethugs to whine and confuse the voters who are ready to swing over.

We don't have the time to go into detail about each and every reason these people should be impeached to show the voters we aren't being vindictive. We will have time later.

I guess think Fitzgerald and how carefully he prepared.

Getting a party in control who will take care of day to day business and stop the cycle of abuse of power is critical. Making sure the voters know this country will be run according to rule of law and common sense and not having the argument about impeachment without the ability to follow it through immediately is more important at this point.

[RestoreGore]

64. I didn't say they had to run the election on it

I said if they don't do this should they win I won't vote Democratic again.

[Tigress DEM]

68. Yeah, it's a house cleaning job that must be accomplished asap.

And I don't think that when they "take something off the table" it necessarily stays off the table permantly.

Social Security needs to be fixed and that is off the table until we have people in charge who aren't trying to sabatoge it.

When the DEMs look at their "honest government" portion of the agenda, there will have to be a new volume added to the World's Encyclopedia entitled "Lies of the Republican's 2000-2006", hopefully as each bozo gets investigated and indicted some of them will run away and get imprisoned by nations that will be declaring them war criminals soon enough.

Isn't that a nice thought? Seeing them trying to run from their destruction and finding out what it's really like to be out of favor and power?

[rman]

45. kick

[Dick Diver]

47. Number 3 is the only thing that's scary here.

With the first, all permanent residents are (and have been) fingerprinted, photographed, and have had files maintained. The expansion of this to visiters only means more paperwork for the government and may indeed not be a bad idea. As to the second, if I have to have a passport to go to the UK, why shouldn't I have to have one to go to Canada or Barbados? Encouraging US citizens to get passports is a good thing and may enhance their desire for and capability to travel internationally. On this board and in many other places on the internets, it's often lamented as to how few US citizens actually have passports.

The third item is a problem, however. APIS exists and is also not a bad thing; you'd like to know who's arriving before they get here. But, making it into a permission system for US citizens is wrong and needs to be fought all the way. If the government has some sort of warrant for you (as a citizen), they should serve it to you when you arrive and NOT deny you entry to your own country.

[jarnocan]

49. just read about this on www.nowpublic.com a site I just found nt

[survivor999]

50. I thought China had that as well...

[file83]

82. I'm pretty sure you are right about that. n/t

[a la izquierda]

54. When is this going to take effect?

I know about the passport rules, but I'm leaving the country in a little more than a month and my husband is touring the EU in January. This is such fucking bullshit, I can't deal with these people anymore...I don't want them scanning my damn retinas to get on a plane! It's bad enough I get body searched every fucking time I fly (they never find anything, yet my husband has breezed through with knives in his bag!!) I've been detained at security while they pull ME out and swab my bag (I'm a 5' tall white female--but I've got a bunch of tattoos that are sometimes visible). What the fuck is next?:rant:

[alarimer]

55. Can we call it fascism yet?

People keep telling me that calling this administration Fascist is way overblown but I think it is becoming more and more clear that these people really are Fascists.

[Bruichladdich]

56. What else?

at least dictatorship is proven yet

Fascism has no specific definition, it was Italy's Mussolini who "created" this first.

[Jcrowley]

69. Digital angel

In June, 2005, George Bush placed a portion of the FBI under his personal control, creating the National Security Service. This secret police apparatus, to be operated by the White House, will have no congressional oversight.18 In October, 2005, Bush created by executive order the National Clandestine Service, a new sticky arm of the CIA empowered to carry out covert operations, spying and dirty tricks within the United States.19 How many Gestapo units does a Fuhrer need?

Meantime, we saw the true fascist face of Chertoff’s Homeland Security megalith last year when he called together some 50 big corporations, including Microsoft, Oracle and Verizon, to enlist their help in watching and tracking the activities of Americans. He told them that Homeland Security was considering hiring a non-profit group to gather information on citizens and send their names for scrutiny to Homeland Security.20

This is the classic fascist formula—corporations invited by Homeland Security to enrich themselves by keeping 300 million Americans under surveillance as suspicious characters. The Department is now collecting a gargantuan amount of information, on every citizen—from every imaginable source— with its new “dataveillance” system called “Analysis, Dissemination, Visualization, Insight and Semantic Enhancement (ADVISE).” By sifting through mountains of computerized information, Chertoff’s Gestapo may now identify our “critical patterns of behavior” in order to assess our “motives and intentions.”21

http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/police-state-usa-and-big-brothers-most-cool-tool

[alarimer]

80. the media sure is doing a good job!

I have never even heard of this. Maybe it's because the media is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Bush administration.

[emald]

61. when I was a child in elementary school

one of the major differences taught me by the teacher I most remember was that the freedom to travel without permission was one of the greater freedoms we enjoyed and which the soviets had none of. It left a mark on me, one that on this day I recall will clarity having read the above post. So, we have officially become what we cold warred against for decades. Ohhh, we have some freedoms. But this one, this one means something to me, really means freedom. I can leave when I want, I don't have to ask permission. Time for this country to change, we are heading down a road, and in fact are quite a ways already down it, which will be the ruination of our country and it's once highly regarded ideals.

Anyone want to bet that the current corporate control of the country is going away anytime soon? Nov 7th will be an interesting count.

[redacted]

63. KICK for further discussion by more DUers

[Zangal]

65. I let americablog know a few days ago

my email below;

Seems DHS wants to play games of "clearance" with air and cruiseline passenger manifests.
This immediately conjures thoughts of "I seem to remember a black and white documentary about this, but I didn't think well of it since I didn't understand the German commentary." (Borrowed that from a comment on the fark thread linked below)

Noted identity issue blog PapersPlease has the story. (5 good comments as well)
Main pdf here; (Conversion of the Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) for international ships and plane travel into an advance permission system)

Summarized on FriendsofLiberty.

It's now hitting Fark and Digg.

[Hoping4Change]

66. K&R

[Jcrowley]

67. Combine with National ID's and what have we here?

In a vote that largely divided along party lines, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a Republican-backed measure that would compel states to design their driver's licenses by 2008 to comply with federal antiterrorist standards. Federal employees would reject licenses or identity cards that don't comply, which could curb Americans' access to everything from airplanes to national parks and some courthouses.

The congressional maneuvering takes place as governments are growing more interested in implanting technology in ID cards to make them smarter and more secure. The U.S. State Department soon will begin issuing passports with radio frequency identification, or RFID, chips embedded in them, and Virginia may become the first state to glue RFID tags into all its driver's licenses.

http://news.com.com/National+ID+cards+on+the+way/2100-1028_3-5573414.html

What's this smell like to you?

[Jcrowley]

70. The program is exempt from certain requirements of the Privacy Act of 1974

According to yesterday’s notice, the program is exempt from certain requirements of the Privacy Act of 1974 that allow, for instance, people to access records to determine “if the system contains a record pertaining to a particular individual” and “for the purpose of contesting the content of the record.”

http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/us-plans-to-screen-all-who-enter-leave-country

[tblue]

72. The rise of the Fourth Reich

[mhatrw]

73. Wow! That is incredibly scary. Thanks. n/t

[yy4me]

74. This would be just one more step to complete loss of freedom.

Next we'll have to raise our hands to go to the bathroom. Too much for this old mind to comprehend.

[boolean]

75. Slowly...Slowly....BOOM! Dictatorship state....

[file83]

83. That's called "incrementalism". They have been stepping towards this

goal for many years. Baby steps. My guess is that this isn't even the last "step".

[BreweryYardRat]

79. It applies only to NON-CITIZENS, or those who LATER BECOME CITIZENS.

However, it is a nasty little piece of legislation, and needs to be thrown out on its proverbial ear.

[alarimer]

81. sure, and the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale

Even if the law says that, I wouldn't trust them one bit.

[olshak]

85. Seawolf....I am seeing something different..

If you look at Page 2 of the pdf file that I linked to, citizenship is not the issue. Rather, it is any passenger that is considered to be "high risk" - of course the criteria for this will not include things like court orders and/or criminal charges, but will instead left to the discretion of government agents.

Unlike what I was reading before, it doesn't look like we would need to ask for permission in advance to leave...it looks like we would simply be denied the opportunity to leave the country if we are on this list. I am wondering how a person would be told...at the airport, when they bought the ticket, or when they apply for a passport or visa.

Ultimately, I agree with The Identity Project in that it is de facto prior restraint... it is another dangerous weapon being put in the hands of people that we are simply supposed to trust.