I must say, I have really had it with being called immoral

[dsc]

by the likes of our current crop of cultural conservatives. There is Ginrich, who divorced one wife from her cancer bed and left another wife for his current one. There is nearly every Republican in the current house leadership who took hush money from a pedeophile, junkets from a lobbyist, and has seen two members convicted and one indicted in just the last year. There is Ann Coulter, who broke Florida's voting laws and lied about it. There is Allen in VA who called people nigger and lied about it, called a man Macaca on video and lied about it, had his staffers rough up a liberal blogger and lied about it, and now is lying about books written by his opponent. There is Corker in Tennesee who ran a racist ad about Ford. There is Swaggart who inquired about sex with a 10 year old daughter of the prostitute he was utilizing. There is Haggard who indulged in Meth and sex with a male prostitute and gave an impromptu press conference about it in front of his children. There is Dole, who is a homewrecker. And sadly I could literally go on for pages.

I have my faults. I sure need salvation to get to Heaven. But on what planet do I have to listen to moral lectures from people who take hush money from pedeophiles to run racist ads so they can take bribes from lobbyists? On what planet is simply being gay somehow worse than leaving one's wife when she gets sick because she isn't pretty enough to be First Lady? What moral universe makes loving someone of the same gender worse than asking a hooker if he can have sex with her 10 year old daughter?

No I am not perfect. But I don't need moral lectures from them or anyone who would tolerate them.

[seabeyond]

1. i had it in 2004. and i dont have that many faults, and not worried about

salvation to get to heaven, and i will take any of these people on eye to eye. perfection i am not, but assuredly i know morality, ehtics, honesty, and kindness.

and i wont be having a party of corruption, nor their sheep followers telling methey are going to show me how to live ife in a christian kinda way

[EFerrari]

2. Doesn't moralizing necessarily involve the sin of pride?

:shrug:

[dsc]

5. like I said I could go on for ages

There is the glottony of Falwell too. Pride, glottony are deadly sins last I checked.

[Catherine Vincent]

17. Speaking of Falwell....

[CurtEastPoint]

19. EWWWWWW... the nasty TOES again! Has he been kicking shit? n/t

[Catherine Vincent]

20. LOL! I laughed when you said that about his toes last time.

I thought it was funny how he didn't bother to wipe them off or dip them in the pool since he was getting his picture taken. :)

[Selatius]

3. No, immoral is fucking up and not admitting you fucked up, especially if...

your fuck-up is costing American and Iraqi lives, while Osama is laughing about all the new recruits you generated for him.

You go forward and tell people that.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

4. I learned a long time ago anytime a politician, weather a

Democrat or Republican, starts trying to sell you on their position with a moral premise, run, don't walk, as fast as you can. It means they don't have any good reason for why they want to do things their way except that it puts money in their pocket.

[dorktv]

6. Well I always remember what Jesus said in Matthew 6:1

"beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them for you shall have no reward from your Father who is in heaven."

I know not everyone is a Christian but his advice always comforts me. For they may speak evil against us, I know that they too shall have their reward.

[niallmac]

31. I like the gospels and I'm an atheist. Good stuff.

[dorktv]

43. Yep, Jesus was not a bad preacher.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

42. jesus did not say that.

he (IF he existed) led a rabble of illiterate, unemployed, unwashed nomads. Matthew could not even write, much less take stenography. 500 yrs ago they held a meeting and they edited, altered, added, removed, changed and decided what they wanted to say.

Still, it is not an unsound idea. The GOP is filled with publically pius men and women, who demand that we practice what THEY preach, while they get to buy Meth and Men.

[dorktv]

44. not everyone who followed Jesus was illiterate. Some were educated

and oral traditions may change before they are written down a little.

[casus belli]

7. here, here. n/t

[proudlibal]

8. Thank You!!!

Very well said.

[JI7]

9. i always think the same thing

these people talk about morals and values and look at what they do . does their God or religion make it acceptable to do the racist bigoted things they do ?

and then to turn around and attack others simply for being gay or something else different as something horrible ?

what type of person does it take to bash and condemn people on morals and sin and whatever else and then to be leading the life you mention of these people ?

[EFerrari]

10. Literally, yes, their religion does that. They seem to believe

that they can do no wrong once they have been "saved". John Dean talks about this a bit in his last book.

[KharmaTrain]

11. Anyone Who Knowingly Voted For Boooosh in '04 Is Immoral

I have been confronted by right wing morons and I don't hesitate to call the immoral to their face. Anyone who, after all the revelations about fraud, corruption and deception that was known in '04, and still voted, willingly, for this regime, is immoral and had blood on their hands. Here's hoping a good number of them will start washing that blood off on Tuesday and further cleansing will be required in '08.

We are all human and I have always had a contempt for anyone who plays god or carries on the pretense that they hold some special knowledge that I don't and becaue of that "special knowledge" I'm inferior...or that others are. These charlatans always appear to be putting up an offense to hide esteem and character flaws.

As long as you feel you are being open, honest and believe in the better in people, not the evil, that is the best peace of mind one can enjoy. Life's too short to live with frustrations and angst...the truth always sets you free.

Cheers...

[smomfr]

13. I´ve always wondered about the Pope being ¨God´s

representative on earth¨. Who the fuck says so?

[KharmaTrain]

14. I'm Still Waiting For A Postcard From The Edge...

When one arrives, then we'll have a better idea.

[Mythsaje]

12. Give the Repugs their way

and they'll create Hell on Earth.

This place could be heaven or hell, but it takes true morality to take it in the right direction.

[waiting for hope]

33. They want that!

The second coming and pleeaaasseee, let's have that damn Rapture because they can't cope with the wonders of life they have already been given.O8)

[bliss_eternal]

15. Who are they really to judge anyone?

Let's look at who the usual suspects are for a minute: Limbaugh a hypocritical drug addict, that accuses a disabled man of faking it. A bigtoed, sexist, egocentric, vile spewing, human waste of space., who makes Jabba the Hut look attractive by comparison.

Oh and then there's O'Reilly who utilizes his "voice" to get the entire right wing up in arms over an alleged "war on Christmas." :wtf: We're really at war, innocent people are dying, the men and women that are working their asses off for their bullshit war are coming home in body bags and that pontificating piece of shit has the audacity to liken such a thing to someone choosing to say fuckin' seasons greetings instead of merry christmas?

Or how about him declaring that Jenna Jameson the porn star is immoral, a whore, and evil in every sense of the word, yet he hits her up for one of her porn tapes when they are off the air? Fuck that asshole and all of his self-righteous moral superiority.

Yeah, I'm about to take morality lessons from self-deluded, bigoted, ass-hats like them. :eyes:

dsc--don't you let those limp dicked assholes get you down. They could never be one tenth the human being that you are. :hug:

People that spew that much hatred so much of the time, can't have any love in their lives or hearts. They are miserable people, dead set on convincing the bigoted of the world that "they" have been wronged by those that should (in their eyes) stay in their place. :eyes:

Fuck them and the morality train they rode in on.

It's easy to shoot holes in all of their hype. Anyone that can't state their political views and belief system without putting down an entire group of people in the process, is frankly full of shit. One should be able to talk about what they believe and why, without needing to bolster themselves by the shoulders of those they percieve to be weaker or more vulnerable (i.e. women, immigrants, minorities, glbt community, liberals, etc.) They need to demonize who we are in the eyes of others in order to make themselves feel better about the lousy people they are. Do you really think they would have ANY followers at all, if they didn't appeal to the absolute bottom rungs of society? I.E--those that hate?

They are cowards and bullies. Plain and simple.

Be encouraged, dsc. :hi:

[Mind_your_head]

37. Wow - Great Post! Thank You for writing/sharing these great thoughts

Especially:

Anyone that can't state their political views and belief system without putting down an entire group of people in the process, is frankly full of shit. One should be able to talk about what they believe and why, without needing to bolster themselves by the shoulders of those they percieve to be weaker or more vulnerable (i.e. women, immigrants, minorities, glbt community, liberals, etc.) They need to demonize who we are in the eyes of others in order to make themselves feel better about the lousy people they are. Do you really think they would have ANY followers at all, if they didn't appeal to the absolute bottom rungs of society? I.E--those that hate?

[bliss_eternal]

39. Thank you,

for the very nice compliment, Mind_your_head! :blush:

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

16. In my book, all these hypocrites should be called Folier-than-thou

They have proven themselves the ultimate hypocrites.

[truedelphi]

45. Love it. Folier than thou

[Justice]

18. not helping the poor, the sick - helping the rich to get richer, turned away from Katrina victims

and on and on.

[bliss_eternal]

40. They didn't just turn away Katrina victims...

they blamed the victims for what happened to them. It was their fault many were too impoverished to get away.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

21. Their morality

(at least some of them..I'll avoid the overly broad brush here) is a sham and a scam meant to exploit gullible people who want to believe that life is simple and if we just hold hands, pray, and tithe we won't have problems or temptations. They are as phony as their piped in music and full orchestra recordings and pink hair and bad toupe's.

[Fuzz]

22. I have said this before here, but my father is an ordained minister,

Assemblies of God, went to John Ashcroft's father's Bible school in Missouri, knows the family. I grew up in that 'fundie' culture, christian schools, etc. Been there, done that.

I am now agnostic, have been since 15, and liberal politically, very. I have been married happily to the same woman, two children, great family life, we're successful and independent.

My wife grew up very, very Catholic. Her parents are a bit upset we haven't gone through the Catholic rituals with our girls, and occasionally mention it.

But both sets of parents compliment our children and our lives, frequently. My father has even said several times, during conversations about this subject, that I am, and my family, more moral, honest and trustworthy than most of the fundies he knows (including my fundie sister). My in-laws say our kids have been brought up wonderfully, they have empathy, morals and endless compassion for others.

One more note, I am a stay at home dad, and my wife works full time, I work part time. This, of course, was another sticking point with both sets of parents, at first. Our position was that my wife's job paid better at the time and we wanted a parent at home with the children to be there for them. My in-laws (real successful people) offered to get us a nanny, which we turned down, even offered to buy us a house when we married, which we also turned down. We now own our own house.

They both now accept this and think this is great as it has worked tremendously for all involved. My father in law even said that he respects how much time I put into my family, as he was never able to do it (he was a surgeon and was working all the time). My mother in law has said, to others and it has gotten back to us, that my wife is a better mother than she ever was. My wife had nannies growing up.

These are my values, they are liberal. I teach morality, not scare tactics. I have family values, as do all my other liberal friends. Including my lesbian friends who adopted two children, who I also love.

So screw them and their false piety. We all have faults, some of us work with them and use them to make us stronger, instead of being shamed into hiding them because they are perceived as being a weakness.

[dsc]

25. Good for you

I probably will never have kids as I am getting on the old side and no relationship in sight but if I did, I hope to be able to hear about me what your family says about you.

[spacelady]

29. You have walked the walk & they have found no fault. It can be done.

Great to hear. We have similar issues with our close family.

[williesgirl]

23. Amen to that. recommended

[Clark2008]

24. Dole is a homewrecker?

Swaggart asked for sex with a 10 year old?

Man - I've missed out on the gossip trails!

You're point is still spot-on accurate - I just didn't know those two facts.

[dsc]

26. Bob Dole ended his first marriage to marry Liddy

and Swaggart is quoted as having asked by the prostitute who gave the interview to Hustler.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. dsc...we are all just human.

Doing the best we can. :hug: There is you, who cares enough about your country and it's citizens to work for change. They'll probably never thank you, but I will. You are an inspiration to me, and I'm sure others.

[silverojo]

28. Here's K&R #5 for ya! n/t

[tyedyeto]

30. Even though I'm not religious...

I've always lived by the Golden Rule. Every religion in this world has their version of it.

If I'm immoral because I may not go to church every week, but I do right by my fellow men and women... How is that being immoral?

[spacelady]

32. Live your life as you see fit. Judgementalism is passe'

You have one life, if you feel fine about it, the "morally superior" 'tudes of others crumble to ashes.

[William Bloode]

34. Heres another good tid bit.

Even in the old testament in Sodom where we know the term Sodomy was derived. The real crime thats to be perceived is not the sleeping together of men, but about being inhospitable to strangers.

The real crime was that the people did not welcome, and treat the angles kindly, not that they wanted to have sex with them.

This has since been twisted into the rationalization we have today.

[spooky3]

35. people who can't control themselves desperately try to control others

[gumby]

36. The "immorality" canard has caused a rift

in my family that has continued for many years. I find it very painful, being in the middle, and have yet to find an appropriate bridge to close the gap.

"Who you callin' immoral?" packs a very devastating punch that both sides seem incapable of dealing with.... Even though there was NO real "immorality" involved. The charge alone has been the problem; and it REALLY has to do with "politics"/personality clash rather than any immoral acts.

I have seen how "morality" has been used as a club/reaction in a "culture war" that has NOTHING to do with actual morals or morality.

[gully]

38. Screw the word "immoral" it's not "immoral" to engage in mutually satisfying

ADULT relationships - period. What's "immoral" is having guilt thrust upon you about living your life in a way that's true to who you are.

I think you raise an excellent point. Further, I would say what's "immoral" is the 600K plus dead due to the American invasion in Iraq.

[StellaBlue]

41. IMHO, fuck the American Dream, it's IMMORAL for some to have MILLIONS while others starve

and can't afford to get sick.

FUCK THEM ALL.