I Went To Church & Found An Anti-Gay Hate-Supporting "Voters Guide"

[Dinger]

I live in Wisconsin. I am heterosexual, married, and I have a brother who is gay. In Wisconsin, there is a gay marriage amendment on the ballot. I was wondering if this kind of shit is legal (putting voting "guides" in church mailboxes). This made me so mad! Can I report this to someone? I don't care if it is my church, and my family has been going here for generations. Also, we are in the process of getting a new pastor. I will go to the next meeting (call meeting) and say I hope we have someone who keeps his/her politics out of my church! Goddamn, I am hot! What should I do? HELP DU!!! (Please)

[iamjoy]

1. It's Very, Very Simple

If it is a liberal church or a piece saying that Jesus would hate the war in Iraq it is a violation and the church should lose its tax exempt status

If it is a conservative church advocating anti-equality and anti-choice viewpoints, it is NOT a violation of the law, it is free speech.

Why is that so hard for some people to understand?


:eyes:

[HereSince1628]

2. This seriously looks like time for a personal choice...

Groom the dogs or live picking their fleas off your coat.

[Ian David]

3. Contact these people: Americans United for the Separation of Church and State

http://www.au.org

They will give you guidance.

Also, if you report the church to The IRS, and they lose their tax-exempt status, then you get a cash reward.

I'd donate the reward to a a gay rights organization, like Soulforce.org

[mzteris]

6. you beat me to it

while I was looking up the link. I couldn't remember the exact name.

I also like Defconamerica - but they don't have anything specific about voter guides.

[Dinger]

7. Damn Good Idea - Thanks!

This is a small-town area, and I don't give a shit! Goddamn, I am pissed!!! I WILL keep you all updated - thanks again:)

[dave502d]

4. A church without a real God, n/t

[mzteris]

5. don't know if this will help

but check this link for info:

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer

[no_hypocrisy]

8. "I'm from the IRS, and I'mhere to help you." Start dialing 9 a.m. Monday.

Charities, Churches and Politics
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=161131,00.html

800-829-1040
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=post&forum=364&topic_id=2580462&mesg_id=2580462

And of course, make copies of the guide for submission with your complaint.

[Paula Sims]

9. I tell them that anti-gay marriage position doesn't go far enough!

The love it because they think I'm agreeing with them and then I say that they should start banning divorce. After all, what breaks up a family more than divorce? Oh, so your spouse is abusing you? Guess you aren't right with G-d because if you were, then you would have prayed and gotten guidance not to marry this person. After a while, the anti-marriage cult agrees that banning divorce is their next target and by then others around me have gathered and are really ticked off when I pull off the nasty mask.

[Roland99]

10. If they don't endorse a specific candidate, not much you can do.

Switch churches?

[Roland99]

12. Or, better yet. You should have done this >>>

Grab a voting guide and run up to the front of the church and shout out something like:

"I cannot believe I'm here amongst people I consider friends and a 2nd family who would dare support vile, hate-filled legislation limiting the freedoms of American citizens. Do you think banning same-sex marriage will somehow make your lives better? That it will somehow make your marriage stronger? How many of you are divorced? How many of you *want* a divorce? How is that keeping the sanctity of marriage intact?

This pamphlet disgusts me and is one of the most anti-Christian things I've ever seen. Does anyone here really pay attention to the teachings of Jesus???

I'm sure you can reel off the 10 Commandments but how many can name even 2 of the Beatitudes?"

[Occulus]

19. Christians do not do courageous things like that

At least, I've never heard here of any christians doing it, and I've suggested exactly the sort of thing you did any number of times.

What they'll tell you is that they would rather let them go off and form their own church. They, for some strange reason, seem to think this helps, rather than simply concentrating the hate in one place, free from repression by better, more evolved minds.

They don't and won't get it, not because they can't, but because they don't WANT to. They don't want to get up in front of people they've known and trusted and liked for years and years and reveal themselves to be a faggotlover.

Exactly zero sarcasm. This shit makes me very, very blackly angry.

[Tesha]

15. Actually, if they recommend a specific vote any time, they're in jeopardy. (NT)

[spanone]

11. What a 'sweet' church sentiment. Fomenting hatred, now was that one of Christ's attributes?

Time to leave that church. Exit, stage left.

[bunkerbuster1]

13. You don't have to mention the church's name, but which denomination?

I think that's relevant for discussion purposes.

BTW, I've seen these "Voter Guides" before that, while being blatantly one-sided, make a show of being non-partisan. As long as a church doesn't endorse a specific candidate or party, I believe it is fully within the IRS rules if it advocates on behalf of referenda.

Just to remember, liberal churches have rallied in opposition to these foul anti-freedom amendments, and I want them to be able to do so.

Beyond that, if you're still fired up and hot, work to unseat a vulnerable Gooper somewhere. There's time, help out and contribute what you can.

[Dinger]

16. Missouri Synod Lutheran (nt)

[davsand]

18. Have you considered a different Lutheran church?

Maybe the ELCA? Missouri Synod is most certainly one of the more conservative churches out there. ELCA is one of the more progressive denominations of Lutherans, and in fact, they've had several national level debates about gay and lesbian clergy and what role they can/should play in the church.

This is such painful stuff, really. Locally our Lutheran Churches have had some pretty divisive times because of the progressive nature of the national policy discussions. Literally, there are families split down the middle and there have been a couple of churches that have left the ELCA to form independent churches.

While I understand that you are unhappy with what the church voter guide had to say, I also want to bring up the idea that very often some people's ONLY discussion of politics--and even thought about politics--comes from that Biblical frame of reference.

What do you abhor most--the idea of a church being political or the idea that YOUR church is putting out ideas you disagree with so very much? Before you act, please take time to determine WHAT drives you to act--because THAT answer will tell you how to proceed.

If you really can't stomach WHAT they said then maybe you'd be able to have a positive impact in your church by opening up a discussion of the issues within the church.

If your main issue is a church's involvement in politics as a whole, then yeah, call the IRS first thing in the morning.

For what it is worth, I'm sorry you are facing this.

Regards!


Laura

[GreenPartyVoter]

20. Yah, ECLA is a much better choice.

[BlackVelvet04]

14. The church has violated their tax exempt status

and they have violated their congregation. Any attempt by any church to sway my vote on any issue would be cause for me to walk out the door....never to return.

I have quit going to church because the rural area where I live is almost exclusively fundamentalist and I have no desire to submit myself to their brainwashing attempts.

[brentspeak]

17. Can you scan and post it here?

[Dinger]

23. I Don't Have A Scanner, But I Could Have Someone Scan For Me

You'll have to wait till tomorrow though.

[trof]

21. Something like this?

Oh goody. Just got my Christian Action Alabama voters' guide.

Came in the mail just yesterday.
"This voter guide meets all IRS and FEC guidelines and is APPROPRIATE FOR DISTRIBUTION IN CHURCHES, SYNAGOGUES...
This voter guide is provided for educational purposes only andis not to be construed as an endorsement of any candidate or political party."

But...but...looks like ALL candidates endorsed are repugs.
Just a coincidence, I guess.

You can take a look, here:
http://www.ccbama.org/VoterGuides/VoterGuideGeneralInsi...

Christian ACTION Alabama? Hmmm...don't think I've heard of them before.
And yet...?
GOOGLE!

"One of the oldest marketing techniques on the books is to take a shop-worn product and repackage it in a more attractive container.

Thus, the Christian Coalition of Alabama is now officially the Christian Action Alabama as part of its breakup with the Christian Coalition of America. The Coalition is best known for the voter guides it distributes before elections and which it bases on misleading questions and partial answers.

For example, Gloria Dolbare lost her bid to replace her late husband, Rep. Jeff Dolbare, D-Bigbee, in a special election. The Christian Coalition distributed a flier implying she supported gay marriage because she didn't answer their question on the subject." http://www.decaturdaily.com/decaturdaily/opinion/editor...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2924617&mesg_id=2924617

Oh.
THOSE guys.
*yawn*

[seabeyond]

22. why didnt you talk to your minister. you are a regular. i would think

that would be a given.... especially seeing you have a gay brother you love, and this hurts you, hence your spirituality. a place where you put yourself out, attacking someone you love.

always, always, speak up and out. it is soooo important. even ministers can learn from we the people. they are isolated. i have found they are willing to hear when i speak in love, even criticism. from the heart. they learn. you job.... too