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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 03:34 AM
Original message
Seeing RED!!! Please read.
Edited on Mon Nov-06-06 03:42 AM by Mythsaje
I'm going to post my response first, so as not to give people the wrong impression here. I was PISSED when I read the myspace bulletin I'm responding to here.

Sorry, J...


People that pass along this sort of stuff in support of that fake cowboy in the White House right before an election are, in my book, happily supporting the destruction of everything this country stands for.

Our military does not exist to excise the tyrants of other lands, particularly tyrants that we ourselves put in power and supported as long as they did our bidding. He was never a threat to us, and, as such, should never have been targeted while greater threats, like Osama Bin Laden, were on the loose.

Bush, like this fellow in Iraq, took an oath to uphold the Constitution, and, instead, have either worked to subvert it (or remained silent while it was subverted) as they raped it by authorizing warrantless wiretaps, suspending Habeas Corpus, and repealing Posse Comitatus so that fellow in Iraq can come back and shoot, capture, and deliver unto torture American citizens who might prefer a President to a would-be dictator.

Senator Kerry flubbed a joke by leaving out a single word that changed the whole context of the statement. That word was "us." As in "and if you don’t, you get <US> stuck in Iraq."

NO ONE in this Administration actually served in combat. We all know what Bush's record was. Cheney had five deferments. And he's not the only one who managed to avoid combat. Most of them did. And it most definitely isn't THEIR children and/or grandchildren fighting over there now. It isn't THEIR children being stop-lossed or prevented from returning to their families because the administration made a mistake. Or a series of mistakes.

What does that tell you? I know what it tells ME.

Rumsfeld is the guy who sold WMDs to Saddam in the eighties. One of them, at least. What does that tell you about what kind of men we're dealing with here?

This fellow over there in Iraq is an example of why some people grow increasingly afraid of our military, even here in the U.S. They should not abandon reason and discretion just because they wear the uniform. In fact, they should hold reason and discretion in that much higher regard.

Other men have worn a uniform as well, and done some very evil things in the name of their leaders. And tried to justify them in all manner of ways.

No American soldier should run the risk of becoming what our grandparents fought against in WWII.

Not all of them are that going that way. But the longer we're there, fighting an impossible war against people who want us gone...the more soldiers we'll lose to the dark side.

That's just the way it works. Always has, always will.

You can't force democracy on people who don't want it. And the longer we try, the more we run the risk of becoming what we hate.

And this administration will cheerfully lead us there, whistling past the graveyard the whole way.

There are a LOT of veterans coming back from the war who are opposing it now. And a LOT of retired generals speaking out against it and the administration. Some have been saying from the beginning that the administration's view of how it would shake out was never realistic.

They were right.

*******************************
Now the letter to which I was responding.

Yesterday John Kerry said, "You know education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well, and if you don’t, you get stuck in Iraq”

So I wrote him a letter:
I am a Sergeant in the United States Marine Corps.
I am currently on my second tour in Iraq,
a tour in which I volunteered for.
I speak Arabic and Spanish
and I plan to tackle Persian Farsi soon.
I have a Bachelors and an Associates Degree
and between deployments I am pursuing an M.B.A.
In college I was a member of several academic honor societies
including the Golden Key Honor Society.
I am not unique among the enlisted troops.
Many of my enlisted colleagues include
lawyers, teachers, mechanics, engineers,
musicians and artists just to name a few.
You say that your comments
were directed towards the President and not us.
If we were stupid Senator Kerry, we might have believed you.

I am not a victim of President Bush.
I proudly serve him because he is my Commander and Chief.
If it was you who was President,
I would serve you just as faithfully.
I serve America Senator Kerry,
and I am also providing a service to the good people of Iraq.
I have not terrorized them in the middle of the night,
raped them or murdered them
as you have accused me of before.
I am doing my part to help them rebuild.
My role is a simple one, but important.

You see Senator Kerry, like it or not,
we came here and removed a tyrant
(who terrorized Iraqis in the middle of the night,
and raped them and murdered them).
And we have a responsibility to see to it
that another one doesn’t take his place.
The people of Iraq
are recovering from an abusive relationship
with a terrible government
and it’s going to take some time
to help them recover from that.
We can’t treat this conflict like a microwave dinner
and throw a temper tantrum
because we feel like it’s taking too long.

Senator Kerry,
you don’t have to agree with this war.
You don’t have to say nice things
about those of us who choose to make sacrifices
for the rights of every American
rather than sit back and simply feel entitled to it.
But please Senator Kerry,
if you’re going to call me a stupid murdering rapist,
stick by what you say.
Don’t tell me that I misunderstood
or that you would never insult a veteran
because you’re one too.
Having been there and done that does not
give you a free pass to insult me.

My suggestion for you, Senator Kerry,
is to remember that your speeches are recorded,
and broadcast to us simpletons over here.
You may want to write down what you want to say
before you say it,
maybe have somebody look at it before you say it
and tell you what others might hear.
Remember that we can’t read your mind,
if there are any misinterpretations in what you say,
it’s because you didn’t communicate clearly.

Good luck to you Senator Kerry,
if nothing else it’s always entertaining
to watch you try and climb out of the holes
that you constantly dig for yourself.

Sincerely,
Somebody who is watching his daughter
grow up in photographs
so that you can have the right
to say whatever you want about him
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 03:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. Ain't my space fun
I have seen a lot of this garbage posted... and as a wife of a retired USN Chief, yep they are very well educated, probably the best prepared force in the history of the military... but all them degrees (assuming he is actually a sergeant (What E-4)... he should be able to read and understand when a joke is a joke.

That is what worries me at times.

Also, and this is my experience, on the web people can claim anything, even me. I usually back my claims with links, so what unit is this sergeant attached to?
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I have no idea...
It was passed along by someone on my friends list. I gave HER the what-for, anyway. :evilgrin:

What do you want to bet she hesitates a moment before sending something like that through the next time? Even if she DOES drop me from her friends list?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 03:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. That is possible
but that particular one reads like classic astroturf
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 03:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. It does, doesn't it?
What amazes me is that the woman who sent it along is generally a major crusader for animal defense. I think she rescues exotic birds, herself, but she's very quick to send around anything regarding animal cruelty and the like.

This is very weird coming from her.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Who knows I had a funny experience yesterday
I was at the local game store, doing demos... or trying to... we were talking game mechanics.

So the guy I was talking with brings up the war... thinking I am a fellow repub... and asks so what is your stand on the war?

Bring them home

He got angry, and started to accuse me of the usual crap. Calmly I took out Military ID and told him, show me yours... of course he could not (and mine is for a dependent)... there were several marines... one said, you know he knows what we are, but thanks for saying that, this is the kind of support we want to hear.

This guy was shocked...

I told him, well, they want to come home, when are your enlisting, the correct form is DD-4...

He said, well I am doing oater things.

I'm not in the military, and at this point I don't think you are gonna buy the product anyways, so I will tell you this. These young men, my husband a retired Chief and I don't like your type much

What is my type

Your a chicken hawk, if the war is so important, what are you still doing OUT of uniform? That is the definition of a chicken hawk, somebody who is willing to send others to die in his favorite wars. You are of military age...

One of these kids said, "Tired of this, just came back from the third deployment. my brothers and I want to come home."

I looked the Marine in the eye, and told him, "son we are going to bring you home, we are working as fast and hard as we can, and my promise to you is I won't rest until the last service member is out of Iraq... " The Marine had tears in his eyes, the chicken hawk picked up his stuff and left, angry... you could tell.

By the by I try to avoid politics, never good for business... but I had to do that.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Oh, man...
That's righteous.

I feel SO bad for those guys over there. A lot of them are just kids. They didn't sign up for this...this endless fucking war.

It's one thing if you're called upon to stand up to defend the country--but that's not what this was. And, what's more, NO ONE should be staring down the barrel of back to back to back deployments because the people in charge don't know what the hell they're doing.

I've known a lot of military folks. My dad's a Vietnam vet. At one time I was on the verge of joining and my dad was rather upset that I hadn't at the time. A few months ago he looked at me and said, "I'm glad you never did."

"Yeah," said I. "So am I."

My wife's nephew just joined. He's supposed to be a helicopter mechanic. We'll see.

I know the kid. His mother's useless and he was fighting an uphill battle to make something, anything, of himself. I just hope this wasn't the absolutely wrong choice.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. I tried after Sept 11
I was denied because my hubby was a Chief DEPLOYED on the line at the time.

Not all other exceptions, they were willing to overlook.

I did my time, somewhere else, and I still felt it was my duty to go defend the Constitution and the contry after Sept 11

Struck an interesting conversation with the Recruiter though... like Pearl Harbor they expected to get swamped... they did, but by people who already did their time, not the kids... the oldest was a B-29 pilot, who told them he was willing to do anything... man oh man this gentleman, a retired Colonel, was in his late seventies.

But mostly no 17 year old kids.

If there was a god, he\she\it prevented it so I could continue to speak out.

;-)


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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. It's a different world
and it's a different war.

I'm actually GLAD they didn't turn out in droves, though I'm not sure what it means for the future of our Republic that our youth has become so complacent, or disenfranchised, that they're not willing to do so.

Had I joined back when I was going to, I would've just missed Desert Shield/Storm. I had friends that served over there. It was a cakewalk compared to this mess.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 04:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. My brother in law and I have talked about it
Edited on Mon Nov-06-06 04:42 AM by nadinbrzezinski
the republic's is dead, for nobody wants to serve (In any capacity, civil, military does not matter)

Yep, we are cynics of the first order, but once the people in any counrry truly care only about ME... that country is dying.

That is what it means, and that is why it should be scary
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. It's not universal, thankfully...
But it is pretty common.

Being a public servant means putting yourself under a microscope and a lot of people just aren't willing to do that anymore. It's worse than it ever was because it's not just your professional life that undergoes such serious examination. It's everything about you.

I know I couldn't do it.
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KitSileya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 05:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. That sounds very Heinleinian.
I'm a liberal, but he has very many good points.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 05:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. I've been a Heinlein fan since I was a kid...
My love of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights can be traced back to him. Jubal Harshaw, out on his lawn, yelling at the Federation troops who dared to land an aircar on his flowers, cursing the death of the Constitution.

Yeah. I may not agree with him on a lot of things, but on that...yeah.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 05:44 AM
Response to Reply #19
21. Heinlein Fan here as well
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conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Jubal is one of my heroes also.
If only micheal would pay Bush a visit.
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KitSileya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Me too.
Edited on Mon Nov-06-06 02:31 PM by KitSileya
There's a reason I spent a year writing my Master's thesis on two of his books (Friday and To Sail Beyond the Sunset.)

While I do not agree with him on a lot of the more libertarian aspects of his writings (I do believe there are instances where the state must step in and help people, and make sure things are kept somewhat equal,) in one aspect I agree with him - I do not suffer fools gladly. And greater fools (and cowards!) than the present bunch occupying the White House 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue has never seen. Together with those that voted for them, you wouldn't be too far off if you figured Heinlein was 12 years off with his prediction - they'd rather vote themselves bread and circuses than stand tall. As it is, the rest of us should have The Moon is a Harsh Mistress in our library, and use it for a DYI manual should this election also be stolen.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I LOVE Friday...
I would like to see Hollywood give that book a shot. But I'm weird. Anything that promotes Heinlein is okay by me.

And, yeah, some of his more overt Libertarian commentary bugs me, but... :shrug:

Ironically enough, two of my biggest influences, both politically and as a writer, are both conservatives. Heinlein and Herbert.

It's all about perspective.

I like to think both Heinlein and Herbert (an avowed atheist/agnostic) would despise these lying bastards.
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KitSileya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. In my family, 3/5ths are avid scifi fans.
For some reason, we've congregated to different authors - I love Heinlein, my brother swears to Arthur C. Clarke, and my father ordered stacks of books by Asimov at a time when the sci fi genre was so looked down upon in Norway they didn't even have sections for sci fi in the bookstores. He had to order them thru the university bookstore.

As for Heinlein despising these bastards - absolutely. And their cowardism would also be on the top of the list. And their treatment of the Constitution - this was a man who chose 1776 as his street number. He'd be advocating open and violent revolt, that's what he would.
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. I think it was because of the nature of the threat
There was no country to strike (well, no country that we couldn't defeat militarily, easily). We understood it was fighting terrorism, and since there is no country called Terrorstan with a capitol named Terroropolis, there was no compelling need to. Terrorists were not massing for an assault upon North Carolian by sea, for example.

It would be nice if Bush had called us to sacrifice by raising taxes for improved security measures, and expanded standing Army, increased CAFE standards, worked with intelligence agencies worldwide, increased CIA presence worldwide, and to research energy independence, but instead he cut taxes and told us that spending was now our patriotic duty.

Yeah, I feel like we're at war, all right. Got my gasoline ration card right here...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #1
17. Less than 5% have degrees
Only 11% have any college at all. And this is from Heritage, which is going to put the best face on the statistics. Everybody went to high school or has a GED, you can't join the military without it. Other than that, the military is significantly less educated than the general population. But we can't say that cuz it would hurt the big brave soldiers' widdle feelings. Nothing personal to your husband, I don't know whether a Chief is an officer or enlisted and college isn't everything. This is just what the statistics say.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda06-09.cfm
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 03:51 AM
Response to Original message
3. someone got slapped by truth
And I love it.

K&R.

(Please let us know if the dude responds.)
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. There are two ways to interpret Kerry's dig
One, the Republican-aiding interpretation, requires a stretch of the imagination and a political filter on your glasses. And considering that John "Swiftboated" Kerry gets a "B" from the Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America and John "Designated GOP Maverick" McCain gets a "D", perhaps we should, instead, go to the OTHER meaning, the more obvious meaning: that Kerry lightly botched a jab at Bush.

http://iava.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2089&Itemid=221

Now, our three-language, two-degreed sergeant here I assume has the ability to read, so he might just want to read (or watch) the several comments that Kerry made immediately prior to the infamous 2-line (NOT one-line, as our learned sergeant would have us believe) to see where Kerry slipped.

Sergeant, God help you if you ever run for public office, because all of the military services and jobs that you do that you are so proud of, will be the first thing the GOP throws on the trash heap. You will see your education and your veteran status used against you. Your awards and decorations will be mocked, your wounds will be marginalized, however serious they are. I wish you well, but you do not know the party you support.

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9961300/the_worst_president_in_history
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/10432334/was_the_2004_election_stolen
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11717105/robert_f_kennedy_jr__will_the_next_election_be_hacked
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11598509/national_affairs_president_bushs_phony_war_on_terror
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/12055360/cover_story_time_to_go_inside_the_worst_congress_ever

Sergeant, I have no doubt that you are doing your job well and ably. I fear that the job you have been assigned is not protecting America or its citizens, and that the people who have set that job upon you simply don't care, or think it is part of a 'larger' strategy.

Incidently, Sergeant, the "A" team of veterans supporters in the House and the Senate are 23 Democrats (including Miss Evil Incarnate herself, Hillary) and

0

Republicans.

And, Mythsaje, you can quote me on this. You can also quote any or all of my letter to the CO of the American Legion.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2589791&mesg_id=2589941

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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 04:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. The irony is that even if he ran as a Republican
in this current environment, unless he was part of the party machinery itself, he'd fall prey to attacks on his character just so another Republican who WAS part of the party machinery could win the nomination.

He could just ask McCain.
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Oeditpus Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 05:26 AM
Response to Original message
16. Bullshit
Sincerely,
Somebody who is watching his daughter
grow up in photographs
so that you can have the right
to say whatever you want about him


I'm so fucking sick of the "They're fighting for your freedoms" meme. There is nothing — nothing in the Middle East that is or was ever a threat to the Bill of Rights, in whole or in part.

The Wregime took care of that themselves.

If this bozo really believes that's what he's fighting for, he's either a fabrication or he's got a lot of Kool-Aid stock.

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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. The whole thing stank to me...
Which is why I explained, in detail, to the woman who forwarded it to me, what my objection was to the whole thing.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 05:43 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. Lawyers fight for my rights
They get really hostile when I tell them that. :P
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and-justice-for-all Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 05:51 AM
Response to Original message
22. All that education.....
..and the "Sergeant in the United States Marine Corps" still can not see what right in front of him. thats a tradgedy.

Just because you are in the Military, does not requier you to go along with anything and everything that comes off the hill. It seems someone does not have much moral fortitude or commonsence and just takes orders. I know, they teach you in the Military to not question authority, but I think there comes a time that if you know what you have been told to do is wrong, then you are commiting an atrocity because you can not musture the balls to say NO. That, makes you a weak person.

What Kerry said was so minor, but what BushCo does in unforgiveable.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
23. My guess is that this was written by a professional GOP propagandist.
Probably someone who's never even worn a uniform. They have massive think tanks devoted just to this sort of thing. I doubt someone with that level of education would be unable to figure out that it was a flubbed joke.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Yup. No way in hell that's for real.
It's just SOOOO over-the-top; it's a FARCE.
It's a PARODY of a farce.

Utter RW BS.
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