So where's my apology?

[donco6]

These evangelicals have been telling gay people that they are not "born that way" for many, many years. That if they "turn their life over to Jesus" and pray, read the Bible, build that "relationship with Christ", they, too, can life the straight life. And so those of us who grew up in religious homes believed them, we prayed, we fasted, we memorized Bible verses, went to church, witnessed, went on retreats, etc. etc. And felt guilty, guilty, guilty because we never stopped being gay. What was wrong with us?

So here's this Haggard fellow. He's a pastor of a big church - head of the Evangelical association, mouthpiece of God to the president of the U.S.. And he can't kick the "gay habit" either.

What a frickin' liar.

I know people who committed suicide because they didn't believe God loved them because they couldn't stop being gay. And this guy is part of the reason they believed that. But I don't hear him apologizing to all the gays and lesbians he mislead along the way.

I have no respect for this liar until he apologizes for THAT.

[TroglodyteScholar]

1. K&R n/t

[eleny]

2. On a local radio show this morning - Peter Boyles....

...Someone mentioned that Haggard has even left the state.

Btw, Jones was a guest in the studio. He sounded good even though he said he's losing his voice. What a great guy and I think he's a hero.

[KansDem]

8. "Someone mentioned that Haggard has even left the state."

Man!, I hope he wasn't heading east. We have enough of these religious hypocrites without importing them!

[donco6]

15. Ha! Hmmm.

Well, it is downhill all the way to Kansas!

:)

[Sapphocrat]

3. Amen!

So to speak. :)

K&R's

[bobbolink]

4. Actually, t here are a lot of people who need to apologize for a lot of things

But, most people, liberals included, don't do apologies well.

I'm owed a few, myself, but... it'll be that icy day in hell....

[DesertRat]

5. You're so right

Think of the pain he caused so many people while he was living as a closeted gay man.

[Maraya1969]

46. That is my biggest bitch about these people What about the young

kids who go threw puberty and find they are not attracted to the sex that their peers are? Then these sadistic preachers tell them it is a sin and of course kids will immediately think THEY are the sin. Maybe that is why a lot of them grow up to be preachers because they were abused as a child and very often the abused child becomes the abuser. (Not all and I believe most do not)

[Ian David]

6. Dobson and Falwell are going to be ministering to Haggard now.

Isn't that punishment enough?

The poor guy's going to be sobbing and crying on Falwell's fleshy shoulder, while Dobson keeps telling him to hit a pillow with a tennis racket while yelling, "Mommy! Mommy!"

Not exactly my idea of how I'd like to spend a month.

[Erechtheides]

18. ...

eew.

[Maraya1969]

47. Maybe Dobson will take him in the shower and show him his penis.

[proudlibal]

7. Amen!

[ThomCat]

9. YES! Well Said!

Now, the next question is, will this help shoot down the ex-gay moment, or end up promoting it?

[donco6]

14. I don't think it helps, IMO.

Having been in an ex-gay group, it only serves to confirm what most gay Christians secretly believe - that there is no "cure" for being gay.

I remember in my ex-gay group, one day we all sat around and the question came up, "So, do you know anyone who has really *changed* from gay to straight?"

"Well, there's Gordon."

"He's not straight - he's just married. Two different things."

"That's true - he's more miserable than most of *us*."

Thinking . . . thinking . . .

"I can't think of any."

"Me neither."

"Wanna get a hamburger?"

And that was the end of the group.

[ThomCat]

16. I'm glad you're not there anymore.

:hug:

[Maestro]

10. I hate to say this but those freaks will say

that Haggard had never truly committed his life to Christ, blah, blah, blah, therefore he couldn't be saved. There is always an out for them since they are so arrogant.

[donco6]

13. And I remember that, too.

I actually had people tell me a few times, "Well, if you still struggle so with these desires, maybe you haven't really given your life to Christ."

After a number of years of considering that (I'm a slow learner), I finally thought, "You know, if *I* can't be sure I'm a Christian, then *nobody* can be sure, because I've prayed with all the earnestness I could possibly muster from the depths of my soul, and I'm still gay. I've witnessed, I've read the Bible, I've gone to church every Sunday and Wednesday for the past 15 years, I've met in small groups, led Bible studies, went on summer evangelism projects, . . . I worked in a frickin' church! And I'm still gay. Gay as a May daisy and it's not going away!"

I got better after that.

[ninkasi]

19. Most people are right-handed

For those, including my son, grand-daughter, and brother, who are left-handed, it wasn't ever a choice. They were born left-handed, and since we have several left-handed cousins, it must run in the family. Several of us have a rare blood type. We're not unnatural, and all of the hours I might spend on my knees in prayer, and regardless of how many times I petition heaven to change, it's not going to happen. I believe that being born straight, or gay is no more a choice than my blood type is for me.

If they didn't cause so much heartache for so many people, I could laugh at the Fred Phelps of this world. As it is, I loathe them, for inflicting pain on people who don't deserve it. Although I use the phrase myself, the whole notion of "granting" equal rights to gays is absurd, since something that is a right can't really be granted, it just IS. The way we should phrase it is that gays are denied rights that are rightfully theirs, and the law should forbid this. I hope that makes sense, but it's the way it seems to me it should be.

[donco6]

21. It makes sense to me. And thanks. eom

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

11. K&R!!!

:thumbsup:

:kick:

[NNadir]

12. I suspect therein lies their fear of gays.

I have always wondered why they think that gay people are trying to "recruit" gays. It's also something of a mystery to try to understand why they think gay marriage could possibly threaten heterosexual marriage. I mean if you got the right to marry - and I hope you will - I would have no desire to leave my wife. That's because I was born heterosexual.

For this Haggard fellow though, it wouldn't be quite so simple.

[Maraya1969]

50. Did you hear what Rosanne Barr said about it. Something like:

"Why are you people pushing for marriage? Haven't you suffered enough?"
Being a bi-sexual woman and having been married, (to a man), I can understand her 100%. Sometimes I felt like I was living in a jail.

[Erechtheides]

17. Hear hear!

Well put.
:applause:

[LeftCoast]

20. It will be interesting to see where his life goes from here

I find it hard to imagine him apologizing though.

As other posters have pointed out, this has to be making at least some fundies think about their stance on homosexuality. I mean, if this guy can't change who can? And if you accept the premise that people can't change being gay then can you continue to condemn them? Of course even asking these questions shatters the whole idea that their version of Christianity is infallible.

Also wanted to add my :thumbsup: to all the rest concerning the OP. Well done!

[civildisoBDence]

42. I'd suggest he turn to a progressive church, like the Episcopalians

I know of a gay warden in an Episcopalian church...who also happens to be Republican.

Takes all kinds!

Newsprism

[NMMNG]

22. Indeed

And I don't want to hear any BS about how "Satan" led him astray, or he was deceived or any of the customary garbage.

How about the truth for once.

[Nicole]

23. Don't hold your breath

Your acceptance of any such apology wouldn't add to the church's bank account.

Any apologies, statements, etc. are going to be made to cater to the church members. They have to keep that money pouring in.

[Nicole]

25. K & R

:kick:

[TexasLawyer]

24. AND Haggard stated that his "problem" was "life-long"

Could it be an indication that he might have been born that way?

[donco6]

34. I think he said "my ADULT life."

Have to have that qualifier in there just to keep people happy. Don't want to spoil their illusions about what it means to be gay.

[MrScorpio]

26. They need to do more than apologize

They need to beg forgiveness

[American Jesus]

27. I apologize to you for what My misguided "followers" did in My name.

Sometimes I wonder whether any of them have actually READ the Gospels :(

[donco6]

35. Well, they missed the Sermon on the Mount at least.

I mean, how many times did Jesus blast hypocrites there?

[donheld]

28. Don, You and I sound quite alike on this but

we may have to wait awhile for our apology. I did all the things you did and remain gay. I don't regret it anymore. I pray, to whom ever will listen, that Ted will find his way out of the hell that the likes of James Dobson will try to put him through, and give you that apology. In my opinion he will always be a liar till he apologizes. Come by the Diedrich's (9th & Downing) some afternoon and we can apologize to each other. This is me http://www.connexion.org/viewprofile.cfm?id=27970 and no this isn't a hit on you. We might even see Mike Jones. Saw him, and thanked him, Sunday.

[donco6]

33. My partner dated him a few times!

In his pre masseur days. He used to play on the soccer team here in town. He said he was a nice guy.

Thanks for the invite. I may take you up on that sometime. Perhaps after we win this election tonight!

[GeorgeGist]

29. According to the 'true believers'...

the soul is naturally sinful. Need it be pointed out to them that their soul's creator might take offense at that 'true belief'? Or that being 'born again' is a solution to a problem that does not exist?

[donco6]

36. An interesting point.

Yes, fundies believe that the "heart of man is desperately wicked - who can know it?"

With that kind of demon lurking inside, it's a wonder people aren't out eating each other.

[Jokerman]

30. K&R!

[wicket]

31. Thank-you

:hug:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

32. This "ex-gay" shit kills people.

All I have to do to comprehend the terror is imagine I'm required to have sex with a man and pretend I like it under penalty of shunning by my family and friends and maybe be kicked out of my house.

Every straight person should make that thought experiment. THAT is what many gay people go through. :scared:

[Raffi Ella]

37. The statement

he made about "warring against 'this' his whole life" is what should clue these bigoted Christians in.

I'm straight.I don't have to war against sleeping with the same sex.I don't come from a religious back ground where it would be a "sin" to do so,nothing is stopping me from being with another woman,I just don't have that urge...Haggard "Warred" against those urges...

Straight people don't have to do that.


He does owe the Gay and Lesbian community an apology but he is so wrapped up in his religion that he can't admit to himself that he is bisexual/gay so I wouldn't count on getting one from him.But you do deserve one.

[Brazenly Liberal]

38. This is the only apology you're likely to get.

I'm sorry, donco6. I'm truly and deeply sorry that we haven't done enough to rid the world of asshats like Haggard. I'm sorry we allowed them to gain the positions of influence and power they have. I'm sorry we've let this go on for so long.

I apologize for Haggard, for Phelps, for the late night nasty anonymous phone calls, for the snarky comments on the street, for the cheap shot jokes on TV. I'm sorry you ever had to think twice about mentioning your orientation. I'm sorry for the bashing, the trashing, and the bullshit.

We haven't done enough. We let this happen. I'm sorry.

[Hosnon]

39. Great point - I don't think it'll be much longer though before full rights are granted.

Just a feeling...

And society's well on its way to acting right.

:hi:

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. while i hate the guy i also pity him

after all in his head he probably tried really hard to kick the gay habit...and he couldnt

its a pity we live in a society where you need to live in guilt

its a pity that he needed to add to the oppression of this society

[emald]

41. hell, i have no respect for this turd at all, even if he apologizes e/t

[Turn CO Blue]

43. This again proves how harmful fundamentalism is to the psyche.

Any kind of fundamentalism...but in particular this teaching the fundie church spews about gays -- causing people to hate themselves and to think that they are betraying God -- it is so wrong, and we should not subject any more children to growing up with this teaching.

Anyone who takes the Bible literally has been fully brain-washed and should be taken through deprogramming treatment.

[Tigress DEM]

44. He is a major part of the prob & human & gay & hurting.

Dobson is going to treat him with the medicine you described. He will learn your pain, but will he survive to change his ways?

I'm not a fan of kicking people when they are down especially when people reaching out to him in his darkest hour with forgiveness might make him think that the gay part of him isn't what's evil, it's all the hate he spewed trying to cover it up.

[donco6]

51. You have a point.

But I think it's hard to offer forgiveness BEFORE someone actually apologizes. Especially in this instance where someone is so influential, heard by so many people, someone who knows that people follow his every word - and they live this life that's such a lie. I just don't think it's OK to offer forgiveness too cheaply here. When he has the guts to face his own life and offer a true apology, then we can talk.

[Maraya1969]

45. What an excellent point! If anyone should have been cure it is him.

[cwydro]

48. yep

:dem:

[Left Is Write]

49. Haggard is a perfect example of self-hatred, self-denial...

Denial so deep he probably never could recognize his own hypocrisy.

[ulysses]

52. happy to give you rec #41.

:thumbsup:

[GreenPartyVoter]

53. Truth be known, I don't think he will apologize for that because

in his mind he's not accountable. Just like the deaths of Iraqis are a comma. People like that have an amazing amount of denial flwoing through them.