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Let's say we take Congress back, both houses, are we home free yet?

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 06:44 PM
Original message
Let's say we take Congress back, both houses, are we home free yet?
Remember the lame duck Congress still has until January to push through a lot of legislation before then. I wonder what they will do? Also, has anyone documented just how much of the Constitution they have demolished with legislation and Bush's signing statements?

Exactly how much power do they still have? Do they have enough to cancel Congress altogether before January? Sorry, but I'm a worry wart.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. If we should... It's the beginning of a whole lot of work.
Fortunately, the DEMS HAVE A PLAN!
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Plenty to worry about
A victory tomorrow just ensures a fairer fight with these bastards for a long time to come. I'll be celebrating certainly, but the real work begins November 8.

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HappyWeasel Donating Member (694 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. well...
Even if we gain just the house, BUSH will be in for a rough, rough time. Too bad the election that TRUELY COUNTS in not for another 2 years.
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Hi HappyWeasel!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. Ummm...............NO!
Edited on Mon Nov-06-06 06:58 PM by MercutioATC
Yeah, I'm all behind that "elect the Dem, regardless of the Dem" stuff, but ave you considered whom we're actually electing?

Most of them are Dems who have played politics and voted their careers for the last 2-6 years. They're better than the Repubs but they're still part of the problem.

We won't be "home free" until we place a Congress with the balls to actually do what needs to be done.



(and that ain't gonna happen tomorrow)
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madmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. No, they would only put their spin/lie machine in 5th gear.
It is only the beginning.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. (1) Get them IN; (2) Wake the UP -- Impeachment IS Our Positive Agenda!!
Edited on Mon Nov-06-06 07:06 PM by pat_k
Job 1 -- Vote Democratic candidates IN.
Job 2 -- Confront the "Impeachment is Off Limits" Dems head on with the Hard Truths. Recruit citizen lobbyists to challenge their rationalizations for Dereliction of Duty In Person.

Notifying us that there is a threat is the First Duty demanded by their oath

If a member of Congress believes the principles and institutions we established in our Constitution are being subverted, their first duty -- the one they are derelict in -- is to notify the public that the Constitution is under attack and that defensive action is required to rescue it.

In our current crisis, the defensive action required is to remove the threat by removing Bush and Cheney from office through resignation or impeachment.

This is OUR country. We the People are the "deciders."

The process doesn't start with Articles of Impeachment. It doesn't end with judgment in the Senate.

The process starts in the court of public opinion. The process ends with removal from office by resignation or by force through impeachment. Between those two points things can play out in an infinite number of ways. There is no way of knowing.

Their oath is an individual oath. Even if No Other member recognizes the threat, each member has a Personal Duty to act on their own judgment.

To fail to accuse criminals is to be complicit with them.

It doesn't matter if member of Congress doesn't think they can get the votes to convict in the Senate. It may never Get There. It doesn't matter if they think impeachment is "impossible," if they believe the Constitution is being harmed their oath to defend it demands that they tell us.

The cool thing about duty is that you just do it, come what may.

"Fiat justitia, ruat coelum"

"Let justice be done, though the heavens fall"

Dealing with accusations that it's a "partisan coup" or "revenge"

If Democratic members continue to be the only ones who recognize the threats, all they need to do to prove their motives are not partisan is to point out that Bush and Cheney can choose to keep the Presidency Republican. It's as easy as 1, 2, 3:
  1. Cheney resigns, Bush nominates new VP.

    The VP must be confirmed by both the House and Senate. Since we elected these folks, if they object to a nominee that objection reflects our will.

  2. Bush resigns, new VP is sworn in as President.

  3. New President nominates a VP.

    Once again, the VP he/she nominates must be confirmed and therefore must meet with our approval (through the people we elected to represent us).

The Democratic members of the Congress who recognize that rescuing our Constitution requires the removal of Bush and Cheney need to sincerely express their fervent hope that Bush and Cheney do this (and they need to actually BE sincere, so they had better give the moral principles long hard thought).

They need to be clear that they actually want things to play out this way because they do not want the nation to have ANY Question about whether or not their motivation is partisan. If they are clear with themselves, they will be clear with the nation.

Of course, if Bush and Cheney choose to be removed by force, then the succession We the People established in the 25th amendment will govern, and the Democratic Speaker will take the office of the Presidency. Since this succession is in accordance with the laws we established, it is also a reflection of our will.

Pointing out the choices that are available to the criminals in the WH is also a way to speed up the whole process. It shifts the accusations that "they are subjecting the nation to a long painful process" to Bush and Cheney.

When they decide to just "do the right thing" things are always far simpler than the insiders with all their partisan machinations and "strategery" can imagine.

The Choice

We all have a choice: the right side of history or the wrong side. Win or lose.

History is a harsh judge. When we look back at the times that evil has won, the "winners" disgust us and we hold the ones who stood on the sidelines because they believed "We can't win this one so we'd better shut up" in contempt.

At our founding, some who claimed to "hate" slavery were nonetheless complicit in the morally indefensible "compromise" that allowed our fellow human beings to be enslaved in the United States. Undoubtedly many believed they "couldn't win" if they drew a line in the sand and so did not draw the line.

We may never stop paying the price for that horrible compromise.

We face another such defining turning point.

There is No Downside

For years before Pelosi's "pledge", the beltway establishment (both Democratic and Republican) have been dong everything in their power to make sure all talk of impeachment is "off the table." The Democratic assumption that "something bad" would happen is so firmly entrenched in their insular world that it never gets challenged. A very big problem since the assumption has no basis in reality.

What's so tragic is that there is no upside to following the establishment's "impeachment is off limits" edict.

Reality is what it is. Bush and Cheney are grabbing more and more Un-American and Unconstitutional power and using it to nullify our laws through abuse of signing statements and refusal to execute or enforce them, to steal our treasure to empower their tiny faction, and to blatantly violate national and international law to bully other nations -- nations that have given up on looking to the good will of the American people for help because we have clearly surrendered our sovereignty to Bush by tolerating his Un-American and Un-Constitutional claims to be "unitary authoritarian executive."

It is impossible for Democratic leaders to speak in inspiring terms about who we are as a nation if they refuse to point to the fascists and say "That is the OPPOSITE of who we are, and Americans must prove it by removing the threat they pose to the Constitution; our common contract; the soul of the nation. Bush have put the contract into breach. The ONLY way to reassert the terms is through Impeachment, the sole mechanism we established to defend against such attacks from within."

With the ONE weapon that We the People gave them to defend our government from abuses of power "off the table," Dems are incapable of speaking coherently about anything. They are trapped in a world of doubletalk and euphemism because they are desperately trying to avoid having to say anything about the elephant that's trampling the things we treasure most.

There is nothing LESS inspiring then strategy-driven doublespeak.

Even the folks "out here" defending Nancy's pledge don't feel good about it -- they are making apologies and excuses. If the actions of our leaders make us feel a bit "dirty" how can we expect them to inspire our fellow citizens?

If the Party establishment hadn't sold themselves on the absurd notion that "voters won't like us if we do our duty, " we probably wouldn't be having this discussion because 2004 would have been a landslide big enough to overwhelm the election thieves.

Even in the context of the DC bizzaro-world conventional wisdom. . .

"Pelosi's "pledge" was completely unnecessary

It is impossible to carry out their duty to defend the Constitution if the only mechanism by which certain types of threats can be eliminated is "off the table." It is effectively a violation of her congressional oath to say impeachment is "off the table."

It is like answering questions about whether the use of military force is off the table -- the answer to that one is ALWAYS "nothing is off the table." Use of force is a weapon of last resort, but leaders never take the weapons we have made available for our defense "off the table."

All she had to do was point that out.

Until they snap out of their denial of reality. . .

Revised Oath (Changes Mandated by Pelosi's Pledge)


I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and be derelict in my duty to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear foreswear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will fail to take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully negligently and faithlessly discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.



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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-06-06 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. This is quite an essay.
Thanks for posting, but maybe it deserves it's own original post.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. DU discussions have been
Edited on Tue Nov-07-06 01:34 AM by pat_k
. . .key in developing the points I make in the post.

As things calm down after the election, I'm sure you'll be seeing some variation of the post from me -- probably more than once. I've been posting on the topic for quite a while (e.g., posts on http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5626568">18-Dec-05, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5638980">19-Dec-05, or http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x997060">22-Apr-06). The most recent discussions were in reaction to "Pelosi's Pledge" (e.g., http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2341252">7-Oct-06 or http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2426304">18-Oct-06).

The goal is not just to challenge other DUer's, but to develop ammo that others can use to challenge their Senators and Reps to Wake Up and Stand Up. (Perhaps in the form of a citizen lobbyist kit.)

Making the case that Impeachment IS Our Positive Agenda here has been invaluable in developing new ways to challenge the rationalization our leaders rely on to justify keeping impeachment "off the table" (the rationalizations that come from DC insiders are often echoed here).
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
10. we can't expect the folks we elect to manage our democracy well without us
.
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