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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:24 AM
Original message
Remember being ridiculed for talking about the problems of the voting machines
during 2004?
Remember the corporate media poking fun at the "conspiracy theorists" who dared to question the validity of the vote?
Joe Scarborough said last night during their marathon that regardless of who won--there would be allegations of election fraud due to the machines.
Only this time they weren't laughing or ridiculing...because the Republicans plan on contesting it.
:just shaking head:
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. that would be a smart move on their part
If Democrats win big tonight than it will put a damper on both the extreme conspiracy theories, but also legimate concerns about voting integrity. Particularly if Republicanoids claim that there's voter fraud going the other way.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Jawja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
2. And last night
Lou Dobbs covered the 2004 election theft in Ohio.

A little late for that. I distinctly remember the MSM laughing the allegations off as "internet conspiracy theories."

They sense a Dem victory and what to you know? They are covering the potential for election theft! :wow:
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MuseRider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
3. The Democratic Party
here in Kansas was laughing at us. We got our apology last July 4th. The Sec of State refused all e mails, snail mails and phone calls. He is a big solid R, firmly entrenched so he is still not talking. In fact yesterday we heard that people were worried about the touch screens (finally!) but we still this year had the option to vote on the Opti scanners, the old reliable, tried and true totally unhackable scanners :eyes:. We still have much to do here.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
4. How well I remember!
And we also knew that we so-called "conspiracy theorists" would make no real headway until such time as we found a way to frighten the clowns with losing their own vote.

Unfortunatly, the only to tip over the media and the puke conspiracy nuts was to present them with the very real possibility that a dem might pull the same crap that they are so guilty of.
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chefgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Exactly
Not only that, I fully expect them to challenge any favorable Dem results today.

I think its just another little trick they keep in their bag full of them. If they can't get the actual count close enough to steal it the 'old' way, they'll cry foul and try to steal it that way.

-chef-
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. they're already laying the groundwork...
My local FOX station this morning had a segment from the FOX network about the close races, and the grinning death head reporter mentioned that some results won't be final for days or possibly weeks. He said it in such a smug, wink-wink kind of way that I knew he was reassuring his Republican viewers that they'd do anything to keep the Senate from tipping.

Bastards. Vote, vote, vote so none of these races are even CLOSE.
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MindPilot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. 2004?! Hell, I sent this letter to all my election officials in December
2002.

If the County Supervisors and Registrar of Voters have their way, San Diego County voters will be casting their 2004 ballots with electronic voting machines. Have we really thought this through?

Voting is far too important to trust entirely to a machine. Computer code is not flawless as anyone who’s ever used a Microsoft product can attest. Sometimes a certain combination of inputs can return the wrong answer.

What if that wrong answer was your vote? What if that wrong answer was the total count for your candidate, or your party?

The AccuVote-TS electronic voting machines are a bad choice for several reasons.

There is no anonymity guaranteed for the voter. The voter is identified, and given a card with encoded ballot information. The card is inserted in the voting machine and the voter’s choices are recorded to the card. The card is then returned to the poll worker who inserts the card into another device which reads the ballot selections into the master database. How does a voter know her name, address or other personal information wasn’t just linked to her vote?

The manufacturer, Diebold, most certainly claims this is not the case, but how would we, the voters, know? Diebold won’t allow anyone outside their company to look at the programming code.

Votes are unverifiable. There is no receipt, no hard copy, and no paper trail. The gold standard of electoral integrity—the hand count of paper ballots--is removed. Once the vote is recorded electronically, that’s it. If something goes wrong, if the count comes into question, if the data is suddenly “bad”, there is no recourse. There is nothing to recount. At that point the outcome of the election is whatever Diebold says it is and they won’t allow anyone outside their company to look at the programming code.

There is no guarantee that the programming of the voting machines doesn’t have a built-in bias. Voters assume their ballot selections displayed on-screen will be written to the data card. But that can’t be verified because Diebold won’t allow anyone outside their company to look at the programming code.

With voting in the hands of a private company, citizens may be at the mercy of that company’s political leanings. In Diebold’s case, their Board of Directors and top executives are heavy contributors to the Republican party, having recently donated tens of thousands of dollars to the RNC and individual Republican candidates. Would Diebold’s senior management use their power to influence the outcome of an election? One would hope not, but we can never know because Diebold won’t allow anyone outside their company to look at the programming code.

While “e-voting” may be the wave of the future, voting is not something that can be entirely paperless. Anyone who works with computers understands the necessity of backups and fall-backs. Our votes are far too important to ignore this simple fact of life regarding electronic data.

There must be a hard copy of every ballot available for a hand recount if that should become necessary, and every voter should receive a paper receipt of their ballot.

The Registrar of Voters and County Supervisors should set up an independent, non-partisan panel of computer database and security experts along with ordinary citizens to verify and certify that our votes are being counted accurately and fairly. The manufacturer of whichever voting machines are chosen absolutely must open their systems and programming code to independent review.

Only then will electronic voting machines be viable for San Diego County voters.


I remember bringing this up at a Dean campaign event and the president of the local chapter of the League of Women Voters essentially telling me I was a conspiracy nut.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Most excellent letter
I mentioned 2004 because that is when I became aware of it.
However, I know there were MANY here that were working on it before that time.
Kudos to all of you and especially to our guardian voter angel Andy.:hug:
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Frustratedlady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. I was listening to an elderly woman on Washington Journal,
who was commenting about her last voting experience. She said she voted on a machine, but a couple of the top positions kept switching from D to R. She said all the other positions stayed like she voted. She complained, but the workers didn't know what to do, so she just left it. After the election, she started hearing stories about problems with machines, and realized she had been had.

Just imagine what this world would be like today, if those dang machines hadn't been used in 2000 and 2004.

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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yep, seems to have become mainstream when Repubs realized they might lose
Ah, the irony of it all - everything is fine until it may affect you! :eyes:
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:47 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. It's the Republican way
:D
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txindy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. There are still people, even here, who think we're crazy for suggesting that.
That's their problem. Sometimes reality bites.
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Hugin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-07-06 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
13. It's hard to forget after I had that "Election Reform 2004" tattoo on my back...
Surrounded with cherubs and the Spanish Armada.

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