IF WE WIN - WE STILL MUST WORK TO GET RID OF THE MACHINES!

[helderheid]

[helderheid]

1. kick kick kick - I know no one wants to think of this tonight but it must be said

[Swamp Rat]

5. I was thinking about this all evening

:thumbsup:

[neebob]

26. I've been thinking about the machines all day myself

since I voted this morning. There were two (new) machines sitting unused and eight paper ballot stations, all occupied. The people at the tables where you show your ID were explaining the two choices but not pushing one or the other. The woman next to me asked if the machines were reliable, and the guy said, "Mmmmyeah," but didn't appear at all convinced himself. The woman chose paper.

So I'm standing there voting, and this other election worker standing near the machines starts hollering at the people still in line, "I'd like to encourage you all to try our new touch-screen voting machines - they're awesome!" I threw her a look and said, "Gimme a break," but she ignored me and did it two more times while I was voting. Nobody used the machines, either, but I wonder how many people felt obligated to use the machines when the lines got longer.

Why the hard sell? I've been kicking myself all day for not taking her on.

[fudge stripe cookays]

50. I told a bunch of people in our precinct "Don't use those things.

They could flip your vote SOOOOO easily."

I told a couple of the stories I read here yesterday. This is a highly red county, but several of them looked pretty worried. Plenty of them got tired of standing in the long line for a seat and a Sharpie though.

[liberaldemocrat7]

56. We must also get rid of polling places.

Every state should allow people to vote by mail with paper ballots counted by civil servants.

Civil servants counting votes will take the parties out of counting votes. If parties want to observe, fine.

No polling place: No police roadblocks as in Florida. No hiding of the voting machines like in Ohio done by Mr. Blackwell.

Civil servants registering voters: No katherine Harris removing 50,000 Democrats names from the voter rolls.

[mopinko]

80. civil servants get the parties out?

are you nuts? you never heard of patronage? come visit me in chicago some time.

[helderheid]

53. k

[helderheid]

67. Hey swamp!

:hangover: :hi: I need coffee. I indulged in the champagne

[kansasblue]

2. go see what's happening in CA. D-Sos strangely losing

I agree

[GregD]

32. Strangely? I don't think so. She ran a shit campaign.

I'm up in rural Siskiyou County, which runs from the Oregon border to just south of Mount Shasta.

What we need in an area like this is roadside posters, yard signs and bumper stickers.

What Bowen's campaign invested in was metropolitan television advertising.

Our central committee (I'm a member) requrested materials since June from all campaigns. We operated voter registration booths at the July 4th Mount Shasta street festival and the County Fair. We begged Bowen for stuff. (We made it clear to her campaign that her's was the most important campaign in the state as far as we were concermed.) What we got was a photocopied 8 1/2 x 11 information sheet. Bumper stickers and buttons arrived about 2 weeks ago.

A group in Marin County calling themselves "Grassroots for Bowen" recognized the deficiency in the materials and tried to raise funds to produce what was needed for a statewide campaign, but were less than successful. In communicating with that group, I heard some fairly awful stories about the inexperienced crew that ran her campaign.

Bowen lost because she ran a lousy campaign. I'd be the first to call "election fraud" if I really thought she had ran a campaign that was worthy of a win, but then she mysteriously lost. In my opinion, she didn't do that. She lost this one herself, and that's a damned shame.

[Liberty Belle]

44. BOWEN WON!!!!! Just saw -- the results flipped.

Garamendi's race reversed, too - and he won!

[laheina]

48. Rock on!!

Woo-hoo!!

:woohoo:

[nolabels]

99. If anybody won, I hoped it would be her

Everything I ever heard her talk about was about the machines. Hope she will be the one to turn this whole thing on it's head.

[tavalon]

3. I'm with you completely

Elections should never be proprietary and until we can get transparency with machines, I think we need to go back to pen and ballot.

[aquart]

4. I suspect the Republicans will help us.

[helderheid]

6. thank you guys

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. And hopefully get some sort of ranked voting as well.

[helderheid]

9. I am ALL for IRV

[Bucky]

8. Do you mean voting machines or just machines in general

Cause I really need my car to get to work

[helderheid]

10. Hehe

:spray: E-VOTING MACHINES :)

[Nicole]

11. Absolutely! n/t

[Kajsa]

12. Absolutely!

Progress is getting back to paper ballots!

[mainegreen]

13. a hell yes kick!

[young_at_heart]

14. Diebold has to go!

Just watch "Hacking Democracy" and you'll agree.

[Raksha]

15. Of course...that goes without saying. n/t

[Dem2theMax]

16. That has been on my mind all day today.

That is just one of many battles we are going to have to fight - and win! :)

[Vidar]

17. Indubitably!

[Lugnut]

18. Abso-frickin-lutely

That part of the battle is not over yet.

[Hekate]

19. Tomorrow! Tonight let's party!

Thanks helderheid -- I know. :hi:

Hekate

[readmoreoften]

20. Yes, because we're likely winning by 55 got dam percent!

Let's level the playing field so we win at 51% like we're supposed to.

[helderheid]

22. We should be winning at 70%

[helderheid]

21. k

[NVMojo]

23. the machines fucked Nevada again ...

[garybeck]

24. KICK

[Canuckistanian]

25. It's the code, stupid

Nothing wrong with the machines, per se. It's that goddamned "proprietary code".

Here's my theoretical solution to BBV:

1) Open source code. Freely available, legally challengeable.

2) Bulletproof security measures. Seals, qualified, bonded techs, training up the wazoo.

3) A comprehensive, definitive national standard for electronic voting.

4) Rigorous testing and verification by INDEPENDENT sources.

5) Stiff and definite penalties for abusing ANY of the above provisions.

Only THEN can you trust electronic voting.

[eridani]

38. You forgot AUDITING!

When I send my results to the EPA, I am required to submit one hand calculation with each sample set. This is because sometimes software FUCKS UP, and my chromatography station is in use daily, unlike voting machines.

[In Truth We Trust]

27. Abso fucking lutely K&R HCPB NOW!

[upi402]

28. CHECK- reporting for duty

[bliss_eternal]

29. Hell yes.

:thumbsup:

[GreenTea]

30. Absolutely, Foward to the furture...back to paper ballots, 100% the only way!

[Thegonagle]

31. Not meaning to let my home-state pride get the better of me, but

Everyone needs to take a look at how Minnesota does it. We have same day registration, perennially high turnout, generally fast precinct reporting, fraud is a non-issue, and we have a paper trail by state law. If the machine malfunctions, reset the machine and run the ballots again. If all the machines break, count them by hand.

[Not Sure]

33. hear, hear!

k & r

[w4rma]

34. Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Paper ballots! No more of these black boxes. (nt)

[kster]

35. ABSOF*CK*NGLUTELY, My brother asked me

are scanners safe, my response, "If YOu Have To Ask" its NOT LIKELY that they are secure, or you wouldn't have to ask, YOU WOULD KNOW.

[HardRocker05]

36. absolutely. nt

[Trekologer]

37. Diebold is guilty of fraud

If you consider the millions of dollars that states spent on machine from just Diebold, the costs of what will probablly be shrugged of as a mistake are staggering. Look at the video of the Diebold sales reps at one county meeting in the Hacking Democracy movie. They assured the buyers (taxpayers) that the machines were secure and foolproof. And they lied about it. They purposely defrauded the governments to sell the machines. The governments who bought the machines should sue Diebold for a 100% refund of what was paid to them. Diebold defrauded the taxpayers. They promised a secure, reliable electronic voting system and did not deliver it.

[Swamp Rat]

39. IMPEACH BUSH!

[casus belli]

40. No doubt. Maybe as a minority, Republicans will finally agree.

[GetTheRightVote]

41. We must go back to paper only, for recounts if nothing else....

:kick:

[Eric J in MN]

42. Paper ballots hand-counted for federal races.

If states want to count local races by machine, they can give 2 ballots to each voter, federal and state/local.

[MGD]

43. 100% in agreement. Absolutely. (nt)

[Red Right and BLUE]

45. Paper ballots all the way. nt

[MGD]

46. America will love us for it too.

[napi21]

47. I don't think we can ever get rid of computerizedvoting,

wether it be optical scan ortouch screen, HOWEVER, we can demand thatthe providers give up the "proprietary coding", add a paper printout for each voter to see how they voted, that stays in a secured section of the computer. Both would provide auditable results, and stiil have very timely results and allow recounts.

I realize a lot of you want all machines to just go away, but that is simply unrealistic. The entire country has gotten so used to rapid results (including all of us here) you can't go backward to paper only. You really have to face reality!

[laheina]

49. From what I've read

the Canadians have successfully fought them. Although progress doesn't necessarily need to be a bad thing. :)

I also agree with you that we need absolute transparency-- and a wider field of vendors. Having one major supplier *invites* fraud.

[badgerpup]

62. "I have seen progress in an egg. It's called "going bad'".

C.S. Lewis, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader

[SoCalDem]

51. Yup. and we now have the credibility to do it.

Knowing they won with the contraptions, and still wanting to push for "easy, recountable " elections is a win win..and non-partisan..

Just DO it.. please..

Dump the Diebolds and go back to what works !!
Figure out what a valid ID is, Issue them to all voters, everywhere and give us back paper ballots..

[B Calm]

52. Paper ballot now!

[lapfog_1]

54. I am pushing the

Andy Stephenson Assurance in Voting Act of 2007.

Basically the bill will mandate a return to paper ballots and hand counts.

Both the bill needs to be written, and we need to get all of the dems to push it through.

[mdelaguna2000]

55. Excellent point - # 1 agenda item?!

I wish....

[Joe Chi Minh]

57. More of a priority than ever. Also, the voter suppression -

including by local police. Particularly by them.

[stellanoir]

58. "Ooooga Boooga Woooga Smoooga"

Now any proposals for reform will no longer languish in committee.

That crook Ney from Ohio blocked all our requests for years.

Phew.

[helderheid]

61. OOGA BOOGA SMOOGA WOOGA!

We did it ;)

[Fly by night]

59. Count me in!! Death to the machines.

[The Count]

60. First piece of legislation! Most importnt!

[libertad]

63. I agree. The electronic touch screen machines must go!

They also used a computer to check us in in my precinct instead of the regular books we used to have. We had to either swipe a drivers license or state our date of birth, name and address and show a picture ID and then sign a pad like you do for credit card purchases. There was only one computer,too.

[helderheid]

64. How did we do in the senate?

:hangover:

[leftchick]

65. recount due to "glitch" in MT

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2006/11/08/news/local/22-flub.txt

Software flub leads to county recount
Problems delay results elsewhere in the state
By ED KEMMICK
Of The Gazette Staff

Yellowstone County elections workers were expecting to work until 5 or 6 this morning after deciding after midnight Wednesday to recount every ballot cast in the county Tuesday.

County Election Administrator Duane Winslow said the fault was his. The county was using a new software program for its three electronic vote-counting machines this year, he said, and he neglected an important function in tabulating the absentee ballots.

Absentee ballots - and there were nearly 20,000 in Yellowstone County this year - are normally counted first, after which the regular ballots from the precincts are counted.

After the absentee ballots were counted, Winslow said, he was supposed to hit a "zero out" button on the voting machines, which basically cleans the slate before the regular ballots are counted. That was the step Winslow neglected to take on two of the machines. He said he thinks he hit the button on one of the machines.

[helderheid]

66. Ah, how appropriate that I asked that here then.

:hangover:

[helderheid]

68. 42 recommends! I LOVE YOU DU!

[helderheid]

73. k

[Jawja]

69. Agreed that this must be

a top priority item for business.

Let's have "comprehensive" reform of the "Help America Vote" scam.

[helderheid]

70. I'd love to see everyone go to the Oregon vote by mail and insist

they are hand counted.

[msongs]

76. vote by mail will be a big fraud and scam and disaster ->

maybe in a little state like oregon that is not ruled by extremists mail vote is ok, except of course for ballots that are lost by the USPS, but.....

in big states or hard core right wing thumper states I predict:

"bring all your ballots down to the church and we will will mark them for you and send them in, all you have to do is sign them before you turn them over to us." btw this strategy may well apply to other venues besides churches.

or

"the head of the household will now mark and mail all the ballots for other household members or we will make you sorry."

No more secret ballots where oppressed people can have their say without being dominated by their masters, where the 'little woman' can cancel the vote of their 'big man', or grandpa can get even with grandma, etc.

vote by mail is not an answer.

rather I suggest making election day a holiday and/or moving it saturday.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[phantom power]

71. "The survivors lived, only to face a new nightmare...

the war against the machines."

[helderheid]

72. is that from Terminator 3?

[raccoon]

74. In a thread helderheid started recently, there are some links

for some groups that are working on this.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2581185

[helderheid]

75. thanks for posting that!

[helderheid]

77. k

[shance]

78. We must have a Boston Teaparty of throwing the machines OUT.

If people can't win elections fair and square, then they shouldn't run.

We all know electronic voting are essentially the good ole boy machines which allow the good ole rich (racist) boys to stay in office and wreak havoc on everyone else and our planet. Just look at the implementation of HAVA by none other than sponsor and formally indicted Bob Ney.

In short, HAVA should be repealed and the machines should be totally scrapped and all technology removed from our elections.

HAVA violates the transparency of our elections, manufactures unecessary chaos, and grabs the power from the citizens and gives it to those who not only don't deserve it, but flagrantly abuse it.

That is the only reason for the machines.

They steal elections.

[Pryderi]

79. If nothing else, fix these machines!

[althecat]

81. Excellent excellent one line post

[file83]

82. AMEN, helderheid!!!

[helderheid]

83. KICKETY KICK!

[tblue37]

84. Get rid of the machines.

Clean up the election process, so no partisan can run the election in a state, a la Harris and Blackwell, and also put some teeth into laws against fraudulent voter purges, voter intimidation, and other election dirty tricks--maybe use the Oregon mail ballot model.

Reinstate the Fairness Doctrine and also reinstate rules that limit media consolidation.

Do a thorough investigation of the corruption that went into sticking most of America with those machines, as well as a thorough investigation into the acummulated evidence of election "irregularities"--AKA cheating--managed with the machines.

Prosecute the hell out of those who were involved in any election dirty tricks.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

85. K&R while celebrating last night, i hope i didn't forget to thank you helderheid

I tried to thank every single patriot fortunate enough to share this "GREATEST PAGE" with my humble post today, regardless of OP positioning on the front page. No, that's not exactly accurate, the ones I actually thanked last night were people like you, who I see working very hard online every single day. Many of them have never kicked or visibly recommended any of my OPs, as you have, but I put friendship aside. With you, friendship cannot be put aside. Whether online or in person, I treasure it far more than money. To me, you are my finest asset and to America you are a savior. If you don't believe me, listen to FOX babble about the evils of blogging. It was the internet that presented the truth to America and the world. I am honored to post on the same boards as you. I hope you grasp the importance of your hard-work every day in the internet trenches. thank you for being an allie, thank you for being a hard-worker, thank you for being a patriot but most of all, thank you for being a friend.

[helderheid]

89. I'm speechless!

I cannot possibly express how humbled I am by the work of DU activists. We're all in this together and I'm amazed at what we can do together. Thank YOU Jefferson's Ghost!

[Jeffersons Ghost]

94. don't be speechless... I want to see your name on this OP...

It is behind you quite a bit out front on the DU GREATEST PAGE. You are heading for the number 1 (4-star) slot on that page because I will kick it there. I intend to make sure that your fine work is recognized by the massive readership we enjoy at DU today. Please post your name on this OP; so I can honor you forever, in my journal:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2618690&mesg_id=2618690

[helderheid]

96. I'm confused

I don't even know how to ask you to clarify this - huh?

[Jeffersons Ghost]

109. open that page and read the posts at the bottom of the page to people like you...

you'll see other names of hard-workers like you... VIVA was the last to reply... that's where I'd like your name to thank you before it goes into my journal.

[leftofthedial]

86. The Democrats ahd a 20% lead in the polls on Monday

and won by an average of 3% or 4% on Tuesday

where'd the other 16% or so go? Looking at turnout, it appears they voted in higher than expected numbers. :shrug:

look at the discrepancies between exit polls and Senate results in Virginia and Montana . . . where'd the 5% or 7% go?

Diebold still happened.

[bearfan454]

87. You know it

We DO have to get rid of them.

[LSK]

88. Howard Dean this morning said this has to be addressed

[flyarm]

90. howard dean was on air america last night and said he has already

disscussed it with Harry Reid and Next speaker of the house Nancy Pelosi..that the first thing that must be addressed is voting integrity..and they agreed!!

fly

[helderheid]

91. I'm going to cry.

All this work... I was so afraid it would be for nothing... but we did it! :cry: :woohoo: :cry: :grouphug: :woohoo:

[flyarm]

92. i have been laughing and crying..emotions all over the map!!

i was a delegate for the state of fla 2004..i know we won it..then and i will always know we won it..

and i know if i have to kick the doors down myself..we will get "VOTER VERIFIED PAPER BALLOTS"...

DO YOU HEAR ME ANDY?? I WILL NOT STOP UNTIL WE ACHIEVE WHAT YOU FOUGHT SO HARD FOR..

and what so many good people have fought for..we will weed out the bad guys..and we will get voting integrity..if it takes everything i have!!

and to those who have played games and who have tried to protect the bad guys..heed this as warning..your time is limited!!

fly

[helderheid]

93. Absolutely - for ANDY!! We're not finished fighting for you Andy!

[Kurovski]

95. Yes. K&R

There should not be so many doubts involved in voting. It is completely unacceptable.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

97. YES!

Paper ballots personally marked by the voter and counted by a bipartisan (or multipartisan) committee of judges at each precinct, with the results passed up the line in the same way, verified at each step by representatives of all participating parties.

(That's how we counted votes at my precinct caucus in 2004. We had supporters of three different candidates for president--I represented the Kucinich camp-- doing the counting of the straw poll ballots, so no one could complain that the results were rigged.)

A recount should be triggered if the difference from the exit polls is outside the margin of error.

The only reason--THE ONLY REASON--to prefer instant 'results" is to give the networks something to blather about on Election Night. I can remember the election of 1968, when it was the afternoon of the next day before we knew the results. I stayed up till 2AM, but I had to go to school at the University of Minnesota the next day, so I gave up. As I walked around campus, people who had TVs in their dorms or who had been listening to the radio shouted out the latest results to passersby.

[Wiley50]

98. I Sent This to Keith Olberman last night

Keith,
I am an election reform activist. One of those, so called by some, crazies
who haunt the Election Reform Forum at DemocraticUnderground.com

Some would say that, since the Democratic Party won both houses, the election process
isn't all that broken after all.

To that I say:

Oh No. We're not done. Not by a long shot.

We just beat the Republican Nickel.

This time.

As Greg Palast wrote in his recent article " How They Stole the 2006 Midterms ",

http://www.gregpalast.com/how-they-stole-the-mid-term-election

The registration purges and other age old suppression,
plus too few machines hence too long lines at the polls
plus the "spoilage", those optical scan votes with stray pencil marks
and punchcards with hanging chads
deemed unreadable by machine,
plus the untrustable software and hackability and unreliability and unrecountabilty
of the machines themselves,

adds up

to a 5% head start for the republicans.

We mobilized enough support
(actually we can't even take all or even much of the credit)
for a change
to meet and beat (by a little bit)
their 5% advantage.
The Republicans generated much of the backlash against them , themselves
( and, therefore, the advantage for us)
by the lack of success of their policies and the scandals
made inevitable by their flaunted hypocrisy.

We still have to take our stolen nickel back.

And, eventually, get publicly-financed elections ( thereby taking the corrupting money
out of the process.

But, at least, if we don't also fall victim to our own pride, we have the power
to do so.

We've got two years.

What time do we start work tomorrow?


Thanks for everything you do and have done, Keith.
You listened and then spoke for us
when most just thought we were crazy


[e-mail]

[tavalon]

100. Very good letter

full of very good information. Good on ya!

[happydreams]

104. I second that. Nice work

:thumbsup:

[WA98296]

101. Machines and Fairness Doctrine. MOST important.

[Ignis]

102. Haven't you heard the news? We're just cranks!

According to the "moderate" (ahem) crowd here at DU, the fact that the election wasn't stolen is apparently PROOF that anyone working for election integrity and transparent voting is simply a conspiracy theorist.

Who knew? Here I thought we were fighting for democracy.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

103. kick

:kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick: :kick:

[krkaufman]

105. I don't have a problem with the machines ...

... so long as the official count comes from paper ballots, and the machines are used to help voters double-check their work.

[understandinglife]

106. NOT ONE LINE OF SOFTWARE BETWEEN A VOTER AND A VALID ELECTION.

Now we must make that stick!

The algorithm is simple:

No barriers, of any kind, or hindrances of any form to having access to a paper ballot.

Paper ballots are marked in private. Paper ballots are counted in public by people who tabulate on paper while being observed by their fellow citizens. The tabulated results are supervised by the public as they are compiled, on paper, certified by the appropriate State official, announced, and then permanently archived. 100 % paper record of every step. Every step supervised by “WE THE PEOPLE…..”

Recommended and thank you!


BE AMERICA. ---

[nicknameless]

107. The #1 issue. Hand Counted Paper Ballots must return if we want democracy.

Out in the open, observed by the public and videotaped -- the only legitimate way to count votes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x456594

[Jeffersons Ghost]

108. kick

[Festivito]

110. I think we still need to INVESTIGATE the machines.

Someone noted the exit polls were off again, and again polls favor D's while machine counted votes again favored R's.

53% seems magic. Machine might only streach four percentage points.

[AikidoSoul]

111. Kick, Kick Kick!!! Thank you!!

The entire time I was working our area to get out the Dem vote I was thinking about how the computers will continue to be a big problem. I hoped for a miracle and now, we have our opportunity
to get rid of the computers so we can have a more solid, honest system.

PAPER BALLOTS!!!!


:kick:
:kick:
:kick:
:kick:
:kick:
:kick:
:kick:
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