I told my Neo-con Dad today to "shut the f* up"!

[Buddyblazon]

First, I love my Dad. We stand on opposite sides of the fence. But we discuss politics regularly. Like everyday...on the phone.

My Fiance hears me...and my Stepmother hears my Dad. And they're amazed that when we get together face to face we show so much love for one another.


But in all the years of arguing with him about politics, it's never escalated that far. After the '04 election, I told him I didn't want to talk for a month or so.I needed some time...and I hung up the phone. And in a month, I came out of my malaise and we were fine and our conversations were all fiery and fun again.


I have explained to him about how I feel about the theft of '00 and '04. And at first he used the "conspiracist" argument with me. He'd try to put an end to it quickly by blowing me off as a nut job. And right before he lays down an argument like that, he says, "OOOoooooohhhh Tim", in this amazingly condescending voice.


I nipped that in the bud.I'd thought. And we'd seriously discussed the possibility it was stolen for the past 6 months. I hit him with odds. And exit polls. And my full arsenal. AND I made it clear to him that I didn't appreciate being blown off as "having a screw loose".

Hearing the reports today about the problems people were having and talking to some of my employees about their ridiculous waits here in Denver to vote...I just said to myself, "here we go again".

So that's where my head was at, "They're going to steal the gubernatorial race with long lines and malfunctioning machines.". I'm not even that crazy about Ritter, but the thought of being a part of the state where stuff like this could happen...for that brief moment I realized how helpless our DU friends in Ohio must've felt. That was about 4 o clock or so.



He called me today about 4:30. I was busy, and called him back about 15 minutes later:

He asked me if I voted. I told him I did. He said, "good". Than I stunned him by saying, "It looks like your man Beauprez is going to win."

"What? How do you figure?".

"Dad...have you not been watching the news? Look at the length of the lines and how long people are waiting to vote here in Denver...in the BLUEST OF BLUE areas of the entire state. This is where the majority of Democrat votes were to come from."

He interrupted me with the horribly condescending, "OOoooohhhh Tim....this stuff goes on everywhere and....."


I told him I didn't like him devaluing my thoughts, not to condescend me when were discussing politics...and when I heard it, I just snapped.

Freeze time. Backup about the blink of an eye:

"OOoooohhhh Tim....this stuff goes on everywhere and....."


"SHUT THE FUCK UP DAD!"

Two seconds of silence.

"JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP!"

One second of silence, and he says:

"DON'T YOU DO THAT TO ME....."

"DAD....SHUT....THE.....FUCK....UP!"


He says, "I'm hanging up now.".



And he did...


And for a second...I felt as bad and horrible as I can ever remember.


Then....one creepy little part of me....the bad, horrible son.....felt......relieved.






What the hell is wrong with me. I've never talked to my Dad that way. And because I don't feel worse about it, it's making feel bad...that I DON'T feel worse. And it's making it tough to really enjoy this victory for our Country.







So my question is:

What cocktail should I drink to simultaneously celebrate, and make me forget that I don't feel bad about telling Pops to shut the fuck up?

[upi402]

1. Wow, you sound like you need a few shots of espresso

Boy do I know that condescending tone. We all probably do.

I try to avoid anger myself, but sounds like there may be an awareness given in your case.

[Matariki]

2. oh you should call him first thing tomorrow and apologize

tensions were running high today. politics aren't worth losing family relations.

i got in a horrible fight with my mom over politics a week before we discovered she had a malignant brain tumor. I was so mad i swore i'd never talk to her again. you can imagine how bad i felt. i got right back on a plane and stayed with her.

maybe you shouldn't talk about politics with your dad?

[fudge stripe cookays]

15. It depends on the family, actually.

Some of us have lost plenty of family members over all this, and don't feel the slightest bit of grief.

Depends on how important the relationship is to you. And how much you're willing to put yourself through. I'm not, but others may be different.

[aquart]

3. Chocolate.

[Thegonagle]

4. Alcohol won't cure, but time will.

In the mean time, drink up!

I'm enjoying some Columbia Valley Shiraz myself.

[casus belli]

5. Yeah, apologize. He may be wrong, but he's family.

And he will always love you.

It may sound corny, but when I get to that point where I feel like saying something over-the-top to my family during a disagreement, I stop myself mentally and silently ask myself, "If he/she were to be gone tomorrow, God forbid. Would this argument mean anything?"

The answer is amost always...no.

I say apologize. You'll feel better, and I think you drove the point home clear as a bell.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

6. Just drink water...

after a ritilin... or two

[Buddyblazon]

7. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

:rofl:


AAaaaahhhhhhh........yea you're right.:crazy:

[Jade Fox]

8. Hey, there comes a point where you just can't listen to any more....

crap. Often parents don't get that. They had you as a captive audience when you were growing up, but now they need to treat you as an equal.

[EST]

9. A bit of sage advice, passed on to me by a very wise, old man.

"Apologize immediately, especially when you are right!"

[madokie]

27. been doing that for years

[NorthernSpy]

10. apologize

You're not supposed to tell your parents to shut the fuck up, even if sometimes they really should just shut the fuck up.

Tell your father that you're sorry, and that you were angry at Karl Rove and snapped and took it out on your dad instead. That's pretty much what happened, isn't it?

Your conscience will bug you until you make this right. So apologize, and then join us in relishing this precious moment of vindication and triumph.

[casus belli]

12. This is a great response. Just remember, your dad isn't the Republican party.

Let's keep that fire focused on continuing to steer America towards the light. We can do that without alienating our family in the process.

[sandnsea]

11. Well it came from somewhere

Maybe you aren't being as honest with him about how you feel as you thought you were.

It's no big deal, or at least it shouldn't be. You can apologize for losing your temper if you want, but you might also verbalize that you don't appreciate his condescending tone. YOU don't have to put up with abusive behavior anymore either, and there's lots of ways people are abusive to each other.

[Make7]

13. Looks like Beauprez lost. ( n/t )

[Buddyblazon]

14. Your darn tootin' he did....

I just didn't want to get my hopes up...and I was so convinced that the fix was in when I saw the lines and heard about the major system crash (the one that checks IN the voters...not the ones that you vote on...so basically people were backed up for hours).

And that damn belittling tone that he gives me when he wants to immediately invalidate what I'm saying. Like I was a nut job to feel anxious over the stuff I was watching on the tele, and the reports I was getting from my friends and family.

I just snapped.

I know he'll get over it. Unfortunately...he grew up in a Irish military family that at times when he was growing up were so "punch you in the teeth"...he'll probably look back on it in a month or two and think, "wrong words....but good for you.".

Kind of sick...huh?



And fortunately I don't have to deal with the thought of another Republican Governor for a decade!

[seabeyond]

25. my father does the ooooooh julie.... you are such an extreme liberal

everything about me and my way of life is traditional conservative. then he continues to interupt all while i am trying to express.... oooooooh julie.

it is hard

after 2004 my husband told my repug father, and two brothers, dont talk bush or repug in our house. all family gathering are in this house. besides, i go into a stfu any more unapologitically and they all have decided to leave me alone.

now of late, they all want to be left alone ashamed and humiliated by what their repugs have been

we dont talk much politics anymore. there is that invisible wall though because of it. we have for a lifetime talked this stuff at the dinner table

[Make7]

35. If we actually had a voting system people KNEW was accurate ...

... and verifiable, maybe people would not suspect that vote manipulation was occurring. Perhaps you could use this as an opportunity to discuss the voting machines and procedures and how they need to be reformed.

That being said, I hope you explain (when you apologize) that it was really your Dad's condescension that set you off. And I hope he apologizes for that and also makes an effort to avoid doing it in the future.

My Dad and I don't even discuss politics anymore. We are polar opposites on almost everything, so the discussion would almost always devolve into a verbal altercation.

Before the Iraq War my family was debating the issues and it got really stupid and I finally decided that it wasn't worth the effort to try to even engage in political discussions with him anymore. He just doesn't really listen to anything that contradicts his viewpoint. Apparently, my viewpoint is not valid because it differs from his own.

At least you and your Dad can debate things when he isn't being condescending and you're not telling him to shut the fuck up. :)

- Make7

[Gold Metal Flake]

16. It's hard to face the fact that someone we love is complicit in crime.

Especially crimes that threaten our democracy. Worse when they want to take the high road at the same time.

It's the election fraud crime and his complicity. Your feelings are genuine and true. His are dishonest. That is the bottom line.

You have the moral high ground. Your emotional expression of grief (that is what it was) and frustration is unfortunate, but not at all surprising. You are on the right side of this. Never forget that. You can apologize if you must for the outburst, but not for the feelings and not for your moral superiority. Time for dad to go to school.

[noonwitch]

17. My GOP-loving grandpa voted for some dems this time

I kind of figured he'd consider voting for Granholm for MI governor when Iacoca started doing ads for DeVos. There are few people in the world my grandpa loathes more than Iacoca-I think only the Clintons come close in his mind. My grandpa worked at Ford in the 60s, and considers Iacoca to be a corporate traitor of the worst kind.

[Catherine Vincent]

18. You should apologize to your dad.

Blood is thicker than politics. :)

[4theheart]

19. Just remember...

Love the person, hate the thinking, that's my philosphy.

[newyawker99]

41. Hi 4theheart!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[meisje]

20. I don't discuss politics w/ relatives

[riderinthestorm]

21. I know I need to stay away from my mom today

and probably for the next week or so, or I'll be in your shoes too.

She voted for that despicable Pete Roskam over Tammy Duckworth after some really shitty conversations we've had lately ("oooh but those poor embryos! It's just wrong to kill those poor babies!" :puke: )

I just have to stay away from her. She's already called my cell phone 3 times this morning - I'm sure she wants to gloat and I just can't possibly deal with her rationally today.

My advice: just cool down for the next week or so. If you talk to him again this soon, you just know he is still going to be too riled up and your discussion will go south faster than before. Or jot him a note and post it, snail mail. Sometimes that is the only way I have been able to articulate shit to my mother since exploding at her only backfires (she is just so damned passive aggressive and manipulative and... have I mentioned she is just the worst kind of repuke dammit?)

[fudge stripe cookays]

26. If she tries gloating....

bring up all the Dems winning practically everywhere else in the nation.

She'd have to be an idiiot to do it today.

[youthere]

22. Reread the first statement of your original post. Then apologize.

[Cha]

23. You'll make up..lots of people's

tempers flare up uncontrolably over the attempted Fascist takeover.

I was born and raised in Colorado and I am so HAPPY Bob Ritter WoN the Governorship of Colorado! There's freakin' hope in Colorado~!

http://www.ritterforgovernor.com/

[Snotcicles]

24. Tell him OOOOOHH TIM, is shut the fuck up to you. n/t

[sutz12]

28. Congratulations...you've just been evicted from the Garden of Eden.

Hey, you should apologize, but you should apologize for the way you expressed yourself, not for what you felt.

The first story in the Bible might be the most important one. The fact is that until a person learns to stand up to the authority figures in their lives, they will never be fully developed human beings. From the Eden story, mankind had to disobey (and therefore 'disrespect') God in order to become something more than the animals around them. It is probably the finest metaphor anywhere in the book, and it applies to everyone in every culture around the world.

Every person in the world needs, at one time or another, to tell their parents to 'shut the fuck up.' Most of us find kinder, gentler ways to say it, but it needs to be said. Otherwise, that 'condescending tone' never goes away, and we never realize our own potential. The problem arises, and the fundies have a problem with this, when the parent/authority figure is so overbearing and so condescending and self righteous that they will not acknowledge the subtle ways the children attempt to move out from that umbrella. In short, they will not let go of that 'parent' role that gives them power over the child.

It sounds to me that your father has been afflicted with the selective hearing that one sees so often in idealogues. Sometimes one needs to shout to be heard.

Apologize for your tone and the words you used. Do not apologize for standing up and being an adult with your own opinions that should be respected. I don't think this is really about politics. That is just he top layer, covering something deeper. This is about whether you will grow up and move beyond your father's thinking and approval. Once you become an adult, you can relate as equals, without the 'condescending tone.' Unfortunately, some parents will not allow this to happen. It may be that your father is having trouble seeing what he can become beyond just being a father. When you become something beyond being just a 'son' to him, he needs to grow in his own right into the next stage of his life. That's what he's afraid of.

Amateur psycho-babble lecture ends here. ;)

[Kerrytravelers]

29. There are some members of the family (hint-not on my side) who are fundy fruitcakes.

They sent us hate mail before the 2004. Finally, we had to sever relations for a long time. It's starting to get better, but they know that if they want to keep relations, they better get themselves in line. rethugs are like that. They are hateful people who get nasty and personal. They are like that and they love it in their politicians. I've talked to many people who said that the * cabal has caused major riffs in the family that will likely never heal all the way.

[VelmaD]

30. I disagree with all the people telling you to apologize

Yes he's your dad, but you are an adult now and he doesn't get to be right just because he's your parent. If you would not apologize for saying "STFU" to anyone else who treated you the exact same way he does...then don't apologize to him. If you are the only one who apologizes, he will treat you with disrespect the rest of your life.

[Double T]

31. How about 'OLD CROW' on the rocks with a splash and a twist??

You ONLY got one DAD brother; politics isn't worth crushing THAT relationship over.

[Dorian Gray]

32. I hope you called your dad back

and apologized. He wasn't attacking you, and because our side won, your arguement and outburst was made out of nerves and stress as opposed to fact. If you love your dad, which you stated you did, call him immediately and apologize. Tell him that you love him, that you were overcome with nerves because this political race was important with you, and that you had no right to speak to him that way and that you hope he can forgive you. He's your father. He might be mad, but he'll forgive you. You said that you've had a really loving relationship despite your political differences, so he'll get over it.

[Annces]

33. Your original family can be suffocating if you don't break out

into new fresh territory. That is the way of nature. How you deal with changes in ideology? You just find your own truth.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

34. Ohhhhhhhh Tim.....

Now you've gone and done it!

LOL. It's a rite of passage. Has to happen one of these days. Bulls try to kill each other. Humans usually reduce that to the F word.

Good luck to you in working through it!

[Marie26]

36. Apologize to your Dad.

I'm not a neocon, or a Republican, but based on your description, he didn't deserve that. Apologize, and then enjoy the Dem victory w/a clearer conscience.

[GreenPartyVoter]

37. a) Apologize fror your rudeness b) tell him you found him to be very condescending and that

you are not a young child to be talked down to anymore

[StraightDope]

38. "What cocktail should I drink..."

Tequila. Straight. It'll make you both celebratory and forgetful.

[npincus]

39. I'm old-fashioned maybe, but

you really owe your Dad an apology for using the 'F-word'. I lost my dad 5 years ago and miss him everyday. Call your dad and tell him you meant to say "go fly a kite" and didn't mean to use the other word.

Have no regrets, you won't have him forever. Let him know you respect him as your dad, differences in politics aside.

After you call him, drink whatever you want. :)

[Katherine Brengle]

40. Nothing to do with politics, but me and my dad used to fight quite a bit and the first time

I got the guts to say something like that, I felt the same way.

And he never talked to me like a child again.

I'm sure it can backfire, but sometimes they just need to know you've grown up and got some cojones.