Dear dismayed conservatives:

[The Witch]

Dear dismayed conservatives:

I hereby make these promises to you.

We will protect your lives and livelihoods.

We will listen to and respect your beliefs.

We will never try to force you to change your religion, sexual orientation, or first language.

We will do our best to reduce the number of abortions in our country.

We will have no tolerance for corruption and cronyism, even in our own party.

ESPECIALLY in our own party.

We will never tell you that you are unpatriotic.

We will never tell you that your opinion doesn't count.

We will never waste your lives for power.

We will hold our leaders to a high ethical standard and when they succumb to lust for power, WE WILL HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

If we forget this, please, please, please, remind us.

We need you to do this. You are America as much as we are.
Let's go.

[Coexist]

1. wow. so THATS what the high road looks like.

Its been so long since I have seen those in power use it.

[bleedinglib]

65. We will ?

Make sure your vote is counted!! AMEN
Blib:kick:

[exlrrp]

308. Fuck this, I want to see Republican/Conservative blood!!

For many long years we have taken the Republicans hatred and insults while they tried their best to destroy us!! And any of our future tactics better take that into account or they'll do it again!! Helloooo? these are NOT nice people!! And theyre planning their revenge and return right now!!

Remember this?
Grover Norquist: "Once the minority of House and Senate are comfortable in their minority status, they will have no problem socializing with the Republicans," he told Richard Leiby of The Post. "Any farmer will tell you that certain animals run around and are unpleasant. But when they've been 'fixed,' then they are happy and sedate. They are contented and cheerful."

I want to see Norquist's balls on a stick and every other Republican who agreed with this!! And its only for their own good: theyve been "unpleasant--but just think how happy and content, sedated and cheerfull they'll be once they've been "fixed."

But we only need to exact revenge legally, through investigation and prosecution, and we have plenty of fertile ground for this--whatever Republican rock you turn over has corruption underneath it--Abramoff, Iraq, you name it. I'm popping the popcorn now

Lets get going

[exlrrp]

309. You should have posted this on Freerepublic

Why post it here? they would appreciate it a lot better--or maybe they'd just laugh you off the site.
A forgiving, tolerant liberal is a dead liberal in this country, out of office, completely without influence. Or have'nt you noticed that these last many years of torture and depair

[TallahasseeGrannie]

312. Indeed!

What a wonderful post to read first thing in the morning! You have energized me!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

313. So how's that anger thing

working out for you?

Your suggestions are guaranteed to keep us mired in partisan garbage forever. We are better than that.

[Capn Sunshine]

323. Keep telling yourself that

yes, there no danger from the neoconservatives. Chastened, they will now submit to rule of law, forego profiteering, and do things by the rules. They knew they were doing wrong, and just wanted a nice, non partisan player to point it out to them.

Yes, we'll never , ever have to worry about these craven evil people again, they'll just go away , and donate their profits to charity. They've surely learned their lesson.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

324. Now I didn't say we should be idiots

but if all we are after is revenge, which is useless, then we are just continuing the problem. What is the problem? Well, to me, the whole Neo-con mindset was brought about by their angst during Clinton. Are we going to follow them down that snake hole? I hope not.

WWBCD?

(What would Bill Clinton do?)

[BeerIsClear]

339. WWBCD?

Probably call Yasser and get some head under the desk.

I can't wait till we have ourselves another sexually free President in 2008!

That would SOOO piss off the Freepers!

[bearfan454]

2. Excellent post

We won't lower ourselves to their level.

[elocs]

99. Yes, great post,

but I am sure that there are many here who would lower themselves to their level in the name of payback.

[Occulus]

170. That's not it at all.

Bullies- especially the ones who are serial bullies- don't learn to not be a bully because they 'suddenly understand'. One must very literally speak at their level because that is all they understand.

Lacking understanding of why it's wrong to bully people, a bully will not learn that it is wrong; on the other hand, the only thing a bully truly understands is a bigger bully. The same sort of logic also applies to people who love/automatically roll over for Authority. The Authority is always right... sometimes because they see that Authority as a bigger bully than they are.

It's all very base and animal, but once a person gets to that point of reasoning, higher reasoning (such as not sinking to their level) becomes ineffective as a tool for learning reasons why such behavior is wrong. It cancels itself out, and all that's left is a bully who only understands being bullied.

Reasoning won't work at that point; only very personal examples do the job. It's not 'in the name of payback', it's 'speaking on the only level they understand'.

Yeah, I've dealt with bullies. After so many years, I had to grow something of a spine, or keep getting walked on. We have the political power, now. It's time to show some spine and cancel out all their agendas, without mercy, and without hearing their pleas. We need to clean up their mess, and if we find we must subject the other side to even a fraction of what they've put us through for the past six eight twelve twenty-four THIRTY PLUS years, I think ought to unashamedly do so, as a parent giving a spanking to a perpetually unruly, insolent, and downright duplicitous child.

They deserve a lot more than that.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

314. My impression of the OP

is that it is addressed to the everyday conservative voter, not the big baddies in office.

[elocs]

337. The original post has 170 greatest votes.

That is because it sets for the right way of dealing with the other side and not payback and do unto them because they did unto us. That is a sure way of guaranteeing a short stay in power. I am sure there are many here who would trade 2 years of payback to holding long term power. That does not mean that we have to roll over for them or to be stupid or naive, but what is right is right. You don't reform a bully by being a bigger bully. Certainly they deserve a lot, but many who are good get what they do not deserve. I don't think that anybody is in a position or omnipotent enough to exact justice in the proper measure deserved. There is a place for calling people to account for wrong doing, but Democrats are also expected by the American people who do not call themselves Democrats as well as those who do to engage in something other than revenge and payback. I think Nancy Pelosi knows and understands this.

[SharonAnn]

273. We are all human and subject to temptation. That's why

open government, transparency, and oversight are so valuable. They are the tools that let human beings govern themselves wisely.

Without those tools, "power corrupts". If not sooner, then later.

[TygrBright]

3. I'm a proud liberal Democrat and I endorse hell outta this message! n/t

[badgerpup]

6. Second that! K & R n/t

:kick:

[lauraxf22]

45. I conccur!

Nicely said!

[SarasotaDem]

4. That's what counts ......

Excellent ......... :)

[seabeyond]

5. that is very good and i think i am going to print out and give to son.

i can see this as a good teaching tool for his age group, in clarity

[MelissaB]

7. Well done!

It get's my K&R.

:kick:

[Endangered Specie]

8. we won't take your guns either

;)

[connecticut yankee]

203. I wouldn't go so far

as to promise that!

[StraightDope]

256. Your attitude is why rural people distrust the Democratic party.

Why would you think that the 2nd Amendment is any less important than the other 10?

I suppose that you also wouldn't go so far as to promise to not quarter soldiers in private residences, or that you wouldn't go so far as to prohibit cruel and unusual punishment.

Think about what I've said...

[benEzra]

311. You had damn well better NOT try that stunt...

(Endangered Specie)
we won't take your guns either

(connecticut yankee)
I wouldn't go so far as to promise that!

You had damn well better NOT try that stunt. Lest you forget, Dems controlled the House, the Senate, AND the presidency in '94, and threw it away in order to legislate rifle stock shape and raise the price on replacement handgun magazines. Unless you want a repeat of '94-'04, stay the hell out of people's gun safes.

Fully half of gun owners are NOT repubs, and contrary to Bradyite/MSM spin, most gun owners are NOT hunters. Don't stab them in the back.

I think Tuesday's election results tend to vindicate a lot of what I said in '04/'05:

Dems and the Gun Issue - Now What?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

315. Ummm...

better not try to get my guns!

[godless]

250. You better not even try

[LWolf]

263. Let's add: "And we won't threaten you."

:eyes:

[The Deacon]

9. I'm A Proud Progressive-Reform Democrat And I Endorse The Hell Out Of This Message Too

[gkhouston]

112. not only is it the RIGHT thing to do it is the SMART thing to do.

I think it's what most of the country wants to hear. Except for an extremely bitter backwash, I suspect most of the country would respond very favorably to a Democratic Congress that set about trying to right some of the wrongs of the past several years not with a "payback" mindset, but with a "clean up the disaster zone and rebuild" mindset. If they investigate and point fingers at specific perpetrators and refrain from broadcasting a lot of overblown broadbrush rhetoric about Republicans in general, I think that might go over better with the electorate than just coming in and riding roughshod over everyone. They want to be seen as doing what they should be doing: protecting and serving the interests of the American people.

[whopis01]

10. Don't forget

This election was not about Democratic voters voting for Democratic candidates.

This election and its outcome happened because Republican voters voted for Democratic candidates.

I don't say this to diminish anyone's contribution to this outcome. Everyone who voted was equally important, and without a strong Democratic turnout, this would not have happened. However, this could have never happened without people who were registered Republican crossing party lines and choosing to give their vote to Democratic candidates.

[RedStateShame]

11. That having been said, impeachment hearings start at 3 this afternoon.

KIDDING!

[Pacifist Patriot]

12. I'll settle for January. ;-)

[Pacifist Patriot]

13. Well said, are you going to submit it as a LTTE? K & R

[understandinglife]

14. Recommended. Good morning, America - every one of you - welcome.

BE AMERICA. ---

[LilyLibber]

15. K & R

This is wonderful.

[Seabiscuit]

16. This is what being a "leftist" and a "liberal" is all about.

Let's let the lablers eat their own labels as we become the country's role models.

[keepthemhonest]

17. speechless here

speechless here ,Thanks excellent post( OK Ok so not so speechless.) High Road indeed it's good to be back.

[qnr]

18. Sign me on to that pledge n/t

[Erechtheides]

19. kick & rec

:applause:

[silverweb]

20. Indeed!

:thumbsup:

[tavalon]

21. Damn, that's beautiful

I don't know how in the world you were able to write this so soon. I certainly agree with all of it but my urge, just for today, is to tell them to go Cheney themselves. But this is my longterm sentiment. Thank you for this.

[GainesT1958]

22. And none of our leaders will say:

"I AM the Federal government!":eyes:

:kick:

B-)

[Ioo]

23. Almost Perfect, Each should start with "Unlike you..."

[mhatrw]

24. exactly n/t

[BurtWorm]

25. It would be even better with a little unabashed victory dance in their face

then a perfunctory, insincere apology.

:patriot:

[demwing]

32. Nope. Those words are MORE conspicuous by their absence.

Sometimes saying less, really says much more.

[crispini]

26. K&R

[indepat]

27. And we will never again allow you to do to us what we would not do to you

[helderheid]

28. Witch

:patriot:

You are a perfect example of what makes me proud to be a Democrat.

[lazyriver]

110. Same here

Highly recommended.

[helderheid]

29. One more thing

WE will work for true election reform and protect the integrity of all of our votes, yours included!

[nolabels]

74. This not one more thing, this should be the first "1" thing

We still don't know what happened in 2000,2002,2004 and may never will but we can still make sure it's never able to happen again.

[pokercat999]

306. To "make sure it never happens again" we first have

to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that it happened in the first place. The effort to prove the crime, find the criminals and punish them should start today! That doesn't mean we can't also start to put together an agenda that will once again make America the "best" place in the world. We need to start thinking about socializing those things that are necessary to everyday life.

These things "tax" us in a disproportionate manner compared to our luckier (wealthier) brothers.

All insurance including health, car, home and life are easily administered by the government without the profit motive that hurts mostly the poor. Housing, to have homeless persons walking our streets is shameful and can be corrected, same thing for FOOD, to have a hungry person in America is a shame we all share.

Where is our sense of being one people? Why is it the people that are the most nationalistic are also the least likely to help their fellow Americans?

I can't understand what happened to the country that could accomplish ANYTHING, to change us to a country that can accomplish NOTHING!

We have spent at least 380 Billion dollars killing the people of Iraq, THAT MUST CHANGE, NOW! We must not look to 2008 in fear that the people will reject our liberal ideas. If we actually believe the liberal way is the best way we must pursue those ideas to their fullest and let the 2008 chips fall where they may. The hell with the RW neanderthals we MUST do what we believe is best for the American PEOPLE!

[nolabels]

335. I think John Conyers will now have the power to find out what happened

They already have documentation of people who broke the law but were not prosecuted because of partisan state officials in prior elections

Also there could have been many more things go on behind the scenes we were never aware in just this last election.

t r u t h o u t - The Conyers Report: What Went Wrong in Ohio
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010605Y.shtml

[Horse with no Name]

30. I agree

Nobody likes to be told they aren't a part of something that is their lifeblood.

[Kadie]

31. K&R n/t

[kittenpants]

33. Beautiful post! I'm proud beyond words to be a democrat today! nt

[Politicub]

34. Here here!

Your post captures the stark difference between the Dems and the GOP.

[VelmaD]

35. only one I disagree with...

I may listen to their beliefs sometimes...but there are many I will NOT respect. I will NOT respect their belief that gay people should not have equal rights. I will NOT respect their belief that women should not have control over her own body. I will NOT respect any of the beliefs they spout that insist any one group is less human and less deserving of equal rights under the law than another.

[truedelphi]

41. Nor should we respect their view that

Their war-loving victory-obsessed Jesus is the real Lord!

[Qutzupalotl]

120. Okay, but can you respect their freedom to form wrong opinions?

Not the freedom to act on those wrong beliefs, but to think them? Are you able to look at a misinformed person as one with a handicap?

Because if you can, you can take the life out of their movement by opening the door to persuasion.

[VelmaD]

138. have you met many of the hardcore anti-choicers?

The ones who don't just want to ban abortions...but birth control as well? Because there's so persuading those people. They aren't merely misinformed. With some of them there is NOTHING anyone can say that gets through. Same for the hard-core bigots and homophobes.

So they can think whatever they want. And I respect their right to think whatever they want. But I DO NOT respect their actual opinion and I think it's important for them to know and understand that their opinions are considered outside the mainstream and unacceptable in civilized society. And that they DAMN SURE aren't allowed to ACT on those beliefs to harm another person.

[Qutzupalotl]

185. Some can, some can't be persuaded, it's true.

They are brainwashed into believing that abortion is murder, that they are one and the same. They are misinformed, but they genuinely want to do the right thing based on that belief. That's all I want to point out.

[humbled_opinion]

257. Your post reminded me that I am looking for some photoshop or cartoon art

depicting Nancy Pelosi with Bush over her knee like a little kid getting a spanking...

[Tuesday_Morning]

36. Kickin' it for the high road.

:kick:

Beautiful post. Thanks.

[RandomKoolzip]

37. Three thumbs up for magnanimity!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[NanceGreggs]

38. EXCELLENT!!!!!

VERY well said!

:kick: and recommended!!!

[Martin Eden]

39. Yes, very Excellent!

and we have to hold our newly elected representatives to those standards

[drfresh]

40. Brilliant ..

Let us not be corrupted by power

[LonelyLRLiberal]

42. I hope that is what reality turns out to be from the Dems, with one "but"

which is that the Dems need to give up bringing out the evil truth of what the Bush administration and the Republicans have done over the past six years.

[smoogatz]

43. One to add:

We will protect the Constitution that guarantees your liberty.

[bulletsandspikes]

44. These are the types of posts DU needs

[OSX]

46. Amen, Brother!!!

Well stated...

-osx

[Black Adder]

47. Excellent post!!!

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stella_Artois]

52. War huh ?

Iraq has told us that militarism is not the answer to all the problems.

How about you take your "war" somewhere else, people in this thread are happy to stay on the high road.

Thanks.

[Brian Stevens]

59. What militarism?

This is OUR war. Liberal, progressive, democrat, whatever. You are in this civil war whether we like it or not, and it doesn't mean you are killing people. We did get our people in office and took both houses, BUT referendums and state constitutional ammendments didn't go in our favor. Operation Blue Block continues.

[The Witch]

53. A war seeks the elimination of the enemy. We want to win their hearts and minds.

We can't do that and eliminate them at the same time. Just look at the Middle East.

[Brian Stevens]

62. We don't need their hearts and minds

They are evil, the bad guys. We humbled these bastards and they better stay that way.

[The Witch]

197. Well, those on the other side sometimes say the same. I guess it shouldn't be--

--a surprise that some folks over here have the same attitude.

We are a big tent. I just would urge you to rethink your views.

Ya know. Peace 'n' love and all that hippie rot.

(I need to go home and eat dinner.)

[hippywife]

247. Sounds a bit like

"Either you're with us or with the enemy!" Hmmm, that attitude sounds familiar. Where have we heard that before?

You can take the high road and still hold the line. What you advocate has never worked and never will. And hate causes more harm to the person who harbors it.

[ThomCat]

60. I think that's covered under

"we will not tolerate any corruption."

We can be the good party and still kick ass.

[Brian Stevens]

63. You are right

But we can do without the neocons, PERIOD.

[pecwae]

49. Perfectly beautiful and noble!

You do know you've made the front page at FR don't you?

[The Witch]

55. No freaking way.

:do I go over and see them cuss me out?:

[Wheezy]

86. you know...

...don't read it, over there at freep. It's not nice. :(

[beezdotcom]

134. Well...

There HAVE been a few positive comments about it. However, it's true that there's little love lost between FR and DU, so the cynicism about the missive should come as little surprise. Kudos to lander for trying to work through all of that.

[Wheezy]

142. I agree -- a few nice comments, beezdotcom.

I believe that The Witch was entirely heartfelt in her opening post, and it never occurred to me that she was anything other than sincere, and so to read some of those comments was still shocking, though you're right that perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised.

I have read good things and horrible things at both places. My guess is that a large bit of the horrible stuff is posted by a small number of people at each place.

Welcome to DU. :hi:

[The Witch]

145. Well, they have reason to be skeptical. That's why we have to work extra hard

to show them that when we don't betray our values for power, we can actually get stuff done.

And I'm sure this is just a spurt of post-election idealism, but I really believe that if we keep our eyes open and don't hesitate to criticize our own, we can do it.

[beezdotcom]

161. Thanks for the welcome.

Yes, it was good to go to the source, and see that the post was sincere. There may yet be hope.

[Wheezy]

179. That would be nice.

n/t

[beezdotcom]

208. *sigh*

Well, lander's gone at FR. "Icarus flew too close to the sun", so to speak. He was fine while posting to the thread about WItch's sentiment expressed here (posted by a FReeper who thought highly of it). Dialogue was starting to happen.

And then, he decided to post his OWN thread about it - which, though expressing a similar sentiment, was slightly more "in-your-face". The results were somewhat predictable. If I hadn't been in my car during the whole brief episode, I would have jumped in to point out he wasn't your average disruptor (quite a few of which show up quite often). It's a shame. Hope I can avoid a similar fate.

[The Witch]

144. Welcome to DU, beez :)

:hi:

[pecwae]

209. No, sweetie, don't

Just realize that you're not only a much better writer than any of them, but that you're a much better person.

[MelissaB]

70. I can't find it, but that's not surprise.

I can never find anything there. Can somebody help?

[TheBaldyMan]

50. how about balancing the budget and limiting the power of executive branch.

as well as true oversight of the wars currently being fought.

[cooolandrew]

51. Great work , loved it. Left and right, north and south let's group hug. United we stand.

[kilaana]

54. Brilliant!! n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

56. Lady, you need a job working for Dean!! *hugs*

[myrna minx]

57. Excellent. n/t

[Canuck Exile]

64. Not so fast...

:nopity:

Nice sentiments, but do you really believe that the likes of Limbaugh, O'Reilly,
Rove etc. will respond in kind?

They will just see it as a form of weakness.

We need to FIGHT for OUR principles just as hard (and yes dirty, if necessary)
that the right fought for theirs.

I don't want to be nice... I want to STOMP them for the harm they have done
to our country.

[myrna minx]

67. You go ahead and play dirty. But I'll be over here with the

grown ups who put country ahead of politics. :eyes:

On edit-I really couldn't care less if someone like Rush thinks I'm "weak" because I have integrity. This from a man who mocks people with currently incurable diseases? Who gives a damn what he thinks!

[Canuck Exile]

301. Politics IS a dirty game...

I am not talking about "playing dirty", I am just pointing out
that the neocons will exploit your "integrity"

We have to be prepared to FIGHT for our principles and YES
get "down and dirty" if we HAVE to.

The only way we can effect change is to win and keep power.

That IS the reality.

Canuck Exile

:mad:

[The Witch]

72. Welcome to DU, Canuck Exile.

I know the feeling. But in the end, I think seeking justice - and I believe justice will serve the public good - and rebuilding the damage done to our country will be just as satisfying.

Which isn't to say we can't enjoy our victory.

[martinautours]

198. Here! Here!

There is a difference between demonizing these people ( becoming like them ) and rolling over and forgiving them. NEVER forget what has been done to your country. NEVER forget what has been done to the world. You can only forgive these immoral power hungry fascists once they have

1) admitted their sins against humanity
2) personally atoned for their sins against humanity ( public apology )
3) publicly atoned for their sins against humanity ( leave office enter prison )
4) renounced ever running for public office again

Then and only then can these criminals be forgiven. But NEVER forget what has happened, so that it will never happen again under Republicans or Democrats.

Pursue and enforce every law that has been broken, it is the only way to deter this kind of criminal activity in the future.

[BlueEyedSon]

58. Psyche!!!

:rofl:

[Kajsa]

61. Dear Witch,

This is a great list of promises to all people in the US.

My hope is that all Dems adhere to this list,
we are the party of the people.

Thanks for reminding us.

;-)

[The Witch]

66. We've got to. We've got to show them that we're honestly trying for the same thing.

We might get disappointed by our leaders too.

So when they allege things we need to look into them instead of being too defensive.

Most specifically, we need to keep an eye on some of the issues they're complaining about over in freeperland. (Dear lord, please let Jefferson get defeated now that we have a majority............ maybe we can force the bum out.)

I feel the need for chocolate. :beer: :wanders away:

[Kajsa]

69. Me too!

Well stated and it's nice to find
another Dem chocoholic onboard.

I'm gonna find my stash right now.

;-)

[Rude Horner]

68. I hereby electronically add my signature to this

I think we have a true opportunity here, that I don't want Dems to waste. As much as I believe that there should be hearings into crimes and war profiteering, etc..., I believe the American people are sick and tired of partisan politics and are starving to see their government actually work towards solving problems. We have an opportunity here to reach out to those who don't necessarily see eye to eye with us, and show them that there is a real advantage to have a working government, with checks and balances, and oversight. We need to prove that Dems are looking out for all Americans.

This is our chance. Who knows if we'll get another one, if we blow it. So we can't blow it. We must move forward with plans, and succeed. I know we can do it!!

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[myrna minx]

77. Thanks for fighting the good fight, lander.

Welcome to DU. :hi: This country is so bitterly divided, but one thing we all have in common is our love for the USA. We just have different ideas about what that means. I know they are mocking this thread, but they should remember it was the Dems who drove LBJ out of power. We did that. We punish our own if they are out of line. Take care.

[lander]

78. Thanks :)

Let's fix this country... all of us... okay?

[myrna minx]

81. You've got a deal, my friend.

:pals:

[Brian Stevens]

82. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Never trust a freeper. Never never never never never.

[lander]

84. Hey. Pst. You.

Grow up. They're Americans. They live here just like you do. Uh </levity>?

[Brian Stevens]

87. Repugs aren't qualified americans

I am happy we won, but wish we could've done a lil better. We believe in TRUE freedom, not them. I am still pumped, even more so after the election. We need push. And if you wanna sympathize with them, then you join them. We have a fight to continue.

[lander]

90. Thanks for continuing to divide our country.

So, what — you'd like 435 democratic representatives, 100 democratic senators, and a democratic president? We did a fantastic job. We restored hope that ordinary people can have a say in our government. Please don't spoil that.

[Brian Stevens]

106. That don't suit me

Yes, you are right. That would be heaven. The problem is we would slow down, something we can no longer afford. We need at least to take over the fillibuster (thats 2/3 majority), efforts to tell idiot voters who voted for anti gay amendments they were wrong. There is a lot of work to do. I am sorry, I am satified with yesterday, but not satisfied enough. The DU can no longer tolerate any more slowing down momentums and then get hit in the back of the head with another successful corupted victory for the repugs.

[lander]

111. Then you keep pushing — please — we need you, too.

But please save your attacks against everything GOP for another day. We have another election in two years, you know.

[Brian Stevens]

115. I am sooo pumped up, lander :)

In 2 year, the repugs will be totally extinct and forgotten. We cannot stop there by no means.

[lander]

121. We can't forget the Republicans.

Without a check on our power, we're worthless, too. Learn from history.

[Brian Stevens]

126. As a matter of fact, you are right.

lets give them a senate seat and a house seat in a weaker electorial college state like Idaho or Wyoming.

[Bridget Burke]

105. Bullshit. Some are worthless, but others can be "saved"....

And what's this "qualified americans" crap?

[Brian Stevens]

117. And you don't know?

They say the same thing to us, why not bounce it back at them. Victory is sweet, but after what they did for 6 years, hell they deserve a beating when they're down.

[lander]

152. Why not bounce it back at them?

Because two wrongs don't make a right. Momma taught me that.

[The Witch]

151. We will keep pushing. Remember, it's them we're fighting for too.

The bastards in power have taken advantage of them. They are superb manipulators. We fight now to protect their freedom of speech, even if we disagree.

Take a step back. They're your neighbors too.

[Brian Stevens]

195. Why bother?

anti gay and anti afirmative action passed in the states ballots, if they don't respect their freedoms, why should we respect those repugs?

[The Witch]

226. Same reason we should talk to Iran and North Korea.

It benefits us to have friendly relations even with those who would do us harm.
:shrug:

[Brian Stevens]

238. You are right about that part

But, The DU will never go along with any friendly relations until we get what we believe this country needs. A fullproof majority. I can see for the next 2 years, vetoes on minimum wage, fillibusters we can't break, goverment shutdowns by the repugs who are too damn self rightious and stubborn to compromise, and more. If this is the response for us reaching out, even if it comes later, then this letter is a hopeless cause. That is IF, great and very respectfully nice effort. BUT, dealing with repugs is just that.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

318. Did you read the OP?

It is about NOT doing to them what they did to us. It is not about sympathizing, it is about cooperating. You frame this as a revenge fight and it is over before it begins.

[The Witch]

147. OMG... it's like... bilateral talks....

i'm all moved 'n' crap. :cry:

Seriously. That is a better result than any kudos I could possibly have imagined I'd get when I first posted this, on a lark. I have chills.

Please tell the freepers that I am very appreciative, and if they are skeptical, that is important-- their skepticism must remind us of our obligation to remain skeptical as well. Who would have thought skepticism would be idealism's best friend? :D

[Brian Stevens]

204. Are you saying this could've been a joke to piss them off?

IF is it, then that was funny.

[Maven]

268. I call bullshit.

These people DON'T want to help us, they tried to fucking destroy us.

Cut it out.

And by the way, just because we don't want to join hands and sing Kumbaya doesn't mean we won't use our energy to "fix the country." We WILL fix the country, and they will try and obstruct us EVERY STEP OF THE WAY, I guarantee you.

[NMMNG]

282. Like hell

Don't try to pretend you're any friend to us.


To: listenhillary
EXACTLY! And the Democrats won! Which means at least SOME Democrats (myself included) are AGAINST gay marriage?

Shocking? I think not.

35 posted on 11/08/2006 12:03:31 PM PST by landeraepi


Go back to FR with the bigots where you belong.

[kegler14]

73. Somebody posted this at FR

and what do you think their reaction is? Let's just say it doesn't quite match Witch's attitude. First they dumped all over it, then questioned whether it was ever posted here, and then speculated that that our replies to the poster were probably nasty. There are a couple of exceptions, people who were gracious.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1735000/posts?q=1&&page=1

Let's continue to be gracious to them.

[lander]

76. Hey, I'm doing my best.

Please help.

[Lisa0825]

92. Welcome to DU!!!

:hi:

[lander]

95. Thank you.

Glad to be here. REALLY glad. Let's show the world what America's made of, shall we? :D

[beezdotcom]

210. sorry I missed it...

I would have been happy to try to save you after you posted your thread at FR - but turns out I was in my car at the time. I think it was "too much, too soon, too parental"...but I know you meant well.

[beezdotcom]

93. Good luck.

These sorts of things have always gone badly before...but I applaud your sentiment, really.

[lander]

98. And I applaud you for sticking your head in.

I've been reading FR for years without a username. Please do some reading over here — and not just links posted on FR ;)

[beezdotcom]

109. You mistake me...

I've been reading threads at DU for years, too, before and after I registered...I don't only read "cherry-picked" threads.

[lander]

113. Then I don't give you enough credit.

Hey, notice that I just signed up on DU, too. Same day, even, I think.

[beezdotcom]

116. Check my profile...

...I signed up in 2003, been reading long before that. I think I've gotten a "feel" for the board...

[The Witch]

153. lander, thank you so much & welcome to DU.

I'm really moved that this little-something I threw out there on a lark would get so much play... and if it's something that FR people as well as DU people can agree on, then voila, we have common ground. And that gives me just miles and miles of hope.

[lander]

187. No, thank YOU.

Run for something, please — I'll manage your campaign.

[Maven]

269. You know what?

We DON'T have miles and miles of hope.

Some of us are PERSONAL TARGETS.

[The Witch]

300. Then read the OP again--- but with one change:

Instead of "to dismayed conservatives," read "to Harvey Korman."

It really goes out to everyone, you know.

[Black Adder]

206. Don't give up hope.

I think you're doing a great job and I agree with you.
I've read your posts/replies on FR and you articulated your position well.
I too have posted on FR and tried to be a voice of reason as I also see myself as a moderate politically. Unfortunately I was banned there for defending my moderate views.
Based on the reaction to your posts, I'm surprised you haven't been banned yet as well.
That said, keep up the fight there and here... :toast:

[beezdotcom]

319. well, it lasted a little while.

Lander got banned on FR - too much, too soon, I'm afraid.

[Jacobin]

79. Oh, My. He's gonna sic Baby Jayzus on this thread!!!

:rofl:

[lander]

83. Please. No.

Reasonable people only, s'il vous plait? (is that how you spell it?)

[Brian Stevens]

85. They wanna war

Lets give em one.

[kegler14]

88. Let's not. Let's be better than that.

[Brian Stevens]

96. We need to keep this trend up.

Give them no air. We have momentum, something we haven't had in 6 years. Give them no quarter, we deserve as much vindication and one day doesn't qualify for 6 years for corruption, stolen elections, etc.

[lander]

101. Have a drink, man.

They're not your enemy. We'd take the momentum and do... what, exactly, with it? Beat the republicans? We did that. Now let's fix the country.

[Brian Stevens]

114. They are OUR enemy.

We have to learn from history. The repugs are NOT afraid to shut the goverment down by any means, they still have fillibuster. We still have 08, lets start early, before it is too late.

[lander]

118. Go ahead.

I'll work on mending fences while you tear 'em down. Dude, I feel what you're feeling — but please measure your anger.

[datasuspect]

304. ONE day after the election

and you want to mend fences?

you're gonna need a lot of material there bud, there's much damage to fix.

i for one am not really concerned with how republicans feel or whether they are alienated from the body politic.

SIX YEARS OF THIS SHIT. six years of lies, marginalization, scandal, and erosion of the middle class in this country. ALL at the hands of the republican party.

"mend fences?" sorry, they lose, they suck it up this time. the republican ideology is so noxious that they deserve no place at a table where civilized people eat.

[Maven]

331. Thank you.

Apprarently we should now apologize to criminals and their enablers for winning the election.

Unbelievable.

[datasuspect]

333. it's like a festival of trolls in this thread.

they lost.

WE as democrats don't need to bow and scrape because WE are in power.

[Wheezy]

122. Awww...

A sweet visitor from Freeperville. They're asking about how you're doing over here, Brian...are you feeling the lurrrrve?

:loveya:

[beezdotcom]

162. Lurrrve only has THREE "r"s....

Sorry to flame you for spelling. ;)

[Wheezy]

191. lol.

Wait, you can't be a freeper if you know how to spel. ;-)

[lander]

91. They do not want a war.

(Except for the one in Iraq — sorry, had to!) As I said over there, both DU and FR are cross-sections of a faction of society. There will be extraordinary diversity. Don't shun everyone because of what someone said. That's like the politicians who didn't know that there were Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds in Iraq.

[Brian Stevens]

123. I believe in one thing

If you choose to be a part of the enemy, whether be neocon, nazi, kkk, etc., you are marked for life. And I give no quarter to those.

[lander]

124. Neocons are a different story.

They need to skedaddle, pronto.

[Bridget Burke]

127. So--harsh judgment with violent overtones is your ONLY belief?

I can understand anger--anger at those who have prevented positive change.

Are you sure you're in the right party?

[Brian Stevens]

128. I didn't say anything violent

Just because I said they are the enemy, absolutly doesn't mean I want violence.

[Bridget Burke]

135. Then lose the "war" vocabulary.

You almost sound like someone pretending to be a "radical leftist."

I have no problem with the Socialist Workers or even the CPUSA. But I'm getting flashbacks to certain trustfundie SDS'ers I knew back in the day.

[Brian Stevens]

137. War as in war of ideas

Maybe I am too pumped for my own good, and don't wanna let up. I do remember the democrats had that problem with slacking back before. Thats what set me off after reading this whole thread, it reminded me of it. If you take me the wrong way, then I am sorry.

[Maven]

283. No, only when they have power do they want a war, right?

Get outta here with that, you're fooling no one.

[Crunchy Frog]

277. I'm beginning to wonder whether you might be one of them.

This looks like the sort of behavior I would expect from one, at any rate.

[BeerIsClear]

338. Here's an interesting response

By my good friend and favorite wingnut.

[Kurovski]

75. K&R.

I'm kvelling.

We ain't the boogieman, they ain't the boogieman, only the power-mad, the fear-mongers, the criminal and the sick need "special" consideration.

Most all of America wants the same thing.

K&R

[myrna minx]

80. Hey Kurovski.

:hi: This is such a great day.

[Kurovski]

104. Hey, c'mere!

:hug: it sure as hell is, MM!:-)

[myrna minx]

168. Awww.

:hug: It's been a long time coming. Two years ago, I wouldn't have thought it was possible. !

[Tight_rope]

89. This bought tear to my eye's...because it's exactly how I feel.

[edlacy]

94. Re: Dear dismayed conservatives

"We will never tell you that you are unpatriotic."

I am willing to go along with all but one of the beautiful promises in your magnanimous litany.
Most of the promises that you list are about the ways that Democrats will use the mandate that the American people have bestowed, or assuring that Democrats will respect citizens' rights and adhere to the responsibilities that come with public service.
However, I cannot agree to ignore the lack of patriotism of people who compromise our sovereignty to a bunch of international corporate polluters, or of fascists and their fellow travelers who decided to suspend the due process rights of habeas corpus- rights that have been a central element of constitutional government since Magna Carta. The people who made these things happen do not love America. We should not hesitate to say so.

[myrna minx]

108. Mr Lacy, welcome to DU.

You are correct that the people who did commit crimes against the USA should be charged and tried, but it does behoove us, I think, to extend an olive branch to the rest of rank and file America. Yes, the freepers really hate us. We cannot change that, but I hope we do not choose hate in kind.
Yes, I do look forward to justice being served to the crooks and criminals who have trampled on our Constitution and everything that we hold dear as a nation, but the rest of our fellow Americans, are still our neighbors, cousins etc, even if they voted for a different candidate than me. We have had a House, Senate and Executive Branch that has only represented themselves. At least the Dems know that they represent all Americans and this is why I am so proud today. :hi:.

[The Witch]

158. Ed, welcome to DU.

I understand your objection. I do agree that those who have compromised our safety and security need to be held to account. Perhaps I should add "...for disagreeing with us" to that line.

[PuppyBismark]

97. This is Wonderful!

I just sent it to my Repub sister and brother-in-law.

:toast: :toast:

[myrna minx]

181. Welcome to DU, PuppyBismark.

We're glad you found us. :hi:

[CaliforniaPeggy]

100. Superb! I had wanted to say something along these lines...

But you got there first.......and you did it better than I could have...

This is indeed the high road.......And ain't the view grand?

We must never forget how we got here.......

And what it will take to stay here.........

Thank you for this eloquent thread........:patriot:

[coalition_unwilling]

102. We will never call you "traitors" or make death threats against you

because we disagree with you.

[MessiahRp]

103. Forgive me

But this is so fantastic I am going to steal this and repost in some places.

Nominated!

Rp

[Bridget Burke]

107. Congratulations on an excellent OP.

I hope it gets copied & published far & wide.

(Not to say I'll stop doing the happy dance!)

[RedCloud]

119. Not so fast there!

We will not mock you for being conservatives but we do expect you to do a liberal amount of work to help fix the environment, the economy and the educational standards that some forgot to "conserve".

We also expect equal time on all your many radio stations and a two year reminder on each station of why people need to hear the other side of the story.

Further, since you rely on religion so much for your votes we will expect you to routinely expose where people have gone wrong such as allowing children to starve, coveting other nations' natural resources, those who hoard wealth, the high cost of housing doesn't permit families to exist anymore since they can't afford them, people who pollute God's green earth, etc. etc.

In other words practice what you preach and no more "not see" reactions to sleaze and corruption.

[Brian Stevens]

130. Thats a lil lighter version of what I was trying to say.

Good job, Red Cloud.

:toast:

[Old Smokey]

125. Excellent message.

[Hekate]

129. ...and I endorse this message! KnR -- Well done, The Witch

:kick:

Hekate

[Love Bug]

131. Thank, you Witch!

Well said. Blessed be!

[Critters2]

132. No tolerance for corruption?

Then why did we just re-elect Blagojevich? The man is an indictment waiting to happen, and I'm furious that I'm going to be paying his salary for another 4 years.

Time to walk the walk, my fellow Dems!

[Brian Stevens]

136. Thats right

:toast:

[Critters2]

148. So we'll be investigating and indicting Governor Corruption (D-IL)? nt

[Name removed]

133. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bluerum]

139. And you will be glad to learn that there is spell checker built into

the forums posting software! It is used to correct spelling errors before actually making a post.

Also glad to see such an open mind joining our community. It is open. Isn't it? Your mind, that is. Open to new ideas. Different ideas. New ways to make the world a better place to live - that kind of thing.

on edit: Added the bit about the open mind.

[Bridget Burke]

140. The beautiful OP speaks for most of us in a larger sense.

But DU has more stringent rules. For example, this site is run by & for Democrats--& friends of Democrats.

Please, go ahead & express your beliefs. If your posts break DU's rules, you will not last long. But some of us will still pray for your redemption. (As a Falwell Friend, I thought you'd appreciate that.)

More accurately, if you're Tombstoned, some of us will light candles, hoping you escape Purgatory in a century or so. (But that's probably too Popish for you.)

No hard feelings, though!

[VelmaD]

143. We don't have to listen to your beliefs here...

in case you missed the sign on the front door...it said DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. Go read the rules. Follow them and you'll be fine. But you'll also note that this is a privately owned site...which means the mod and admins can set rules on what can and can't be said. There are already thousands of outlets out there spewing right-wing talking points...so we don't have to tolerate them here.

Welcome to DU. Like I said, read and follow the rules and you should be fine. Then again, if you're just here to shit on the carpets...don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[Warren DeMontague]

150. Maybe just pee on the rug.

"That rug really tied the room together, Dude"

[lander]

157. We won.

Now be civil, please.

[VelmaD]

163. you've been here less than a week

so I think I'll rely on my own judgement on this one

[Maven]

288. DU doesn't allow FR regulars to post here either

Please read the rules. And don't talk to Velma that way.

[Maven]

287. Didn't you hear? Today it's Touchy-feely-love-everybody Underground!

And we all get roses and pink ponies! Just leave your principles at the door.

:puke:

[Rude Horner]

154. I work with a former "ditto head"

He is a true, loyal DU'er now.

What I would say to you is just this. Open your mind to the possibilty that maybe Rush isn't the best source for news and views. My co-worker who used to listen to Rush all the time, now sees that he isn't exactly fair or balanced. Or truthful.

[Hulsey13]

156. Welcome to DU.

Welcome to the Democratic Underground. Believe it or not, most people in this group welcome those from the other side of the aisle, because it is only by being challenged that we can become secure in our own opinions.

That said, I disagree that our candidates won because people like you sat this one out. From what I am reading on the news, a third of the voting evangelicals went for Democratic candidates. Granted, you could be right, because maybe the overall participation among evangelicals was low. But the fact that many of them supported Dems tells me that people were not happy with what they heard and saw on the Republican side.

Oh, one other thing. If it is true that you regularly visit this site, then you already know that the only thing required to stay on the site is a willingness to respect other contributors, even if you disagree with them. Let me offer examples:

An example of respectful disagreement:
Falwell Friend,
You write that you think there is no limit to how far the Democrats would go to gain power, even at the nation's destruction." I can't disagree with you enough. I believe Democrats love this nation just as much as Republicans, and I would challenge you to provide true evidence to the contrary.
John

And an example of what is not allowed:
Falwell Friend,
You write that you think there is no limit to how far the Democrats would go to gain power, even at the nation's destruction." You are an idiot. Republicans have proven themselves to be nothing more than slimy bastards who can't steal enough or hate enough. You suck.
John

See the difference? Intelligent and respectful debate is welcome here, and if you experience something less, you should make your friendly DU moderators aware of it.

John Hulsey
USMC
1985-1989

[lander]

160. You guys never cease to amaze me.

Thanks, DU. Awesome.

[jaybeat]

279. Nice!

Would that we all could be so civil!

[Sapphocrat]

292. Speak for yourself, dude.

most people in this group welcome those from the other side of the aisle

Uh, try taking a poll on that, and see just how many "most people in this group" comes out to.

There are plenty of of message boards that allow both liberals and conservatives to post. They are cesspools of hate and conflict -- and if "we" at DU wanted to subject ourselves to that, we wouldn't be at DU.

It's been suggested many times that "the other side of the aisle" be allowed to post here, and thank blinking God that Skinner, in his infinite wisdom, has 86'd that idea every time.

The day DU welcomes freepers is the day you will see a mass exodus of DUers of every degree of progressivism.

If you want to go mix it up with dittoheads, have at it -- I can think of at least six other forums that will allow you to do it to your heart's content.

the only thing required to stay on the site is a willingness to respect other contributors

That's a pretty broad -- and inaccurate -- statement; you make it sound as if every little freeper who promises to play nice is welcome. Have you even read the rules yet? They're right here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[Hulsey13]

316. Wow. How wrong was I?

I have to admit that I never took the time to read the basic rules of DU. My experience all came from reading posts.

I respect that DU is "someone's baby," and they definitely have the right to set any rules they want. But I have to say I am disappointed. I never thought of Progressives as people who were unwilling to debate. I have always thought the debate was our strength, in fact. The more truth and fact brought to bear on an issue, the more likely we were to be correct.

And if you know that sites that allow both sides of the spectrum to post are "cesspools of hate and conflict," then why couldn't DU be the example that rises above that? Not to allow people to log on and ruin DU, but to let both sides represent. Beat them with the truth instead of silencing them?

Ok, I'm rambling. I think I need to take this frustration, put it into a different post called "Why I'm Leaving DU," and move on.

I wish everyone at DU all the best, and I hope they feel as happy and proud of our Dems as I do this morning. I am proud to be a Democrat!

John Hulsey

[The Witch]

166. I can't promise what the admin will do...

Unlike some other sites, these guys already state in their user terms that it is a site for Dems only-- nevertheless, we have some Republican rebels on the site who have stuck around, and I see no reason you shouldn't be able to do the same. Still, I'm not an admin. I won't flag your post or anything, though, and I hope it doesn't end up flagged.

I'm sorry you felt you had to sit the elections out. I wish you had felt enough confidence in your representatives to participate. I only hope that as time goes on, Pelosi and the others will be able to perform to all of our expectations and perhaps betray some of the assumptions you have about their motives.

Let's work together. :)

[NMMNG]

289. Our candidates won

Because America is tired of the

Hypocrisy
Lying
Warmongering
Pandering to the rich and corporations at the expense of the middle class
Erosion of Civil Rights
Invasions of privacy
Divisiveness
Cruelty and hatred for those who are different


and other atrocities perpetrated upon them by the Republican party over the past six years.

[RoccoR5955]

141. Wow

Now THAT's taking the high road.

I'm not sure that I can live up to that, especially since I believe that some of those neocons are traitors!

[FalwellFriend]

164. Do Fundamentalist Voters Really Count as Neocons?

For example, my parents were New Dealers but were socially more conservative than even someone like Santorum. Things like minimum wage, taxes, health care are all worldly things and aren't really that important either way unless it means that tax dollars are paying for abortions. When I vote it's to see abortion banned, prayer returned to public schools, traditional marriage protected which includes an end to "no-fault" divorce. I will sit out elections or leave that spot on the ballot blank if moral failures like Kirk Fordyce, Newt Gingrich, Tim Hutchison are on the ballot. Governor Sonny Perdue is my idea of an excellent public official. Remember that he was once a Democrat. Or, for example if a Bob Casey, Jr. was on the ballot against Rudy Guiliani, I would vote for Casey.

[Hulsey13]

193. Minimum wage and health care not that important?

Wow. I am surprised at how casually you dismiss minimum wage and health care as "worldly things" that "aren't that important." Do you know the number one issue that married couples quarrel over? Finances. If you really want to support the institution of marriage, you might want to find out what really separates couples.

And I see we disagree on other things, as well. Prayer in schools? Sure. As long as all prayer is accepted, and not just that of your specific religion. How will you feel about your son or daughter taking part in "Lessons of Allah" day at their high school? No, I prefer that children learn about religion at home or in the church of your choice, not in school. How about we use that time to learn to read and write, instead?

You seem entrenched in your beliefs, so I say "your life, your choice." But I will continue my fight to make sure that I, too, get a choice in my life.

[Warren DeMontague]

200. So here's a question:

"When I vote it's to see abortion banned, prayer returned to public schools, traditional marriage protected which includes an end to "no-fault" divorce."

Why can't you be happy simply not having an abortion yourself? Is there something wrong with your church, that you not only need your kids to pray in Public School, you need everyone else's kids to be forced to pray to YOUR GOD in public school as well? (In clear violation of the Establishment Clause, I might add). You don't like divorce, or "no fault" divorce? Great. Don't get divorced. You don't like gay marriage? Don't have a gay wedding.

Do you get where I'm going with this? It is not an imposition on YOUR VALUES to say that you can't impose them on everyone else. Not everyone agrees that a stem cell is a "baby" or that the second a sperm meets an egg the fertilized egg transmogrifies into a single cell with rights under the 14th amendment. Not everyone thinks committed gay relationships are a bad thing, and not everyone thinks it should be harder for people to get out of shitty marriages. (What are divorce rates like in your "red states" versus blue states, by the way?)

And the bottom line is, Americans by and large understand that. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but one lesson of this election (along with the lesson of Terri Schiavo) is that the myth of the all-powerful "values voter" is just that- A MYTH. The American People are far more Socially Libertarian than the conventional wisdom is prepared to deal with. 44% of Nevada -hardly Blue Voter Central- voted to legalize Marijuana. Not medical marijuana, mind you, recreational use for anyone. It didn't win but the reality is trending towards personal freedom. In the 21st century, arguing that Americans shouldn't be allowed to divorce, use birth control, or have sex for non-procreative purposes is as silly as trying to pretend a 6,000 year old Earth and Dinosaurs on "Noah's Ark" is science.

But, I digress.

Again, I hate to break some bad news to you, but it's time for you far right "social conservatives" to grow up. The GOP has been using you, and your fantasies of dragging the rest of us back to some 1950s nirvana of barefoot & pregnant women, closeted gays, and criminalized nudie mags aren't going to come true. You need to deal with the fact that your choices- and you're welcome to them- don't need to be legislated onto the rest of us.

[WhollyHeretic]

231. So it's homophobia and sexism that get your vote

Gee, so glad to have you on DU :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

146. I respect the sentiment. But I would personally qualify some of them as such:

We will protect your lives and livelihoods.

45 Million Americans with no health insurance is a moral travesty. The "fiscally responsible" GOP has driven the deficit through the roof. Iraq is at $380 Billion and counting. We spend $40 Billion a year on a drug war aimed primarily at harmless pot smokers, including cancer-ridden grannies who get dragged off to prison by riot gear clad DEA agents for eating brownies. We look forward to your enthusiastic support in changing these situations.

We will listen to and respect your beliefs.

We will never try to force you to change your religion, sexual orientation, or first language.

However, YOUR beliefs are not more important than the beliefs of atheists, gays, or any other citizens. If you want to believe that homosexuality or abortion are immoral, that's great -- Then don't be gay or get an abortion. If you want your kids to pray every morning- fine- but if your beliefs say that you have to force everyone else's kids to pray in public school, you're shit outta luck. Likewise, if you want to believe the Earth is 6,000 years old and Dinosaurs were on "Noah's Ark", great.. but don't expect it to be taught in Public School science class.

We will do our best to reduce the number of abortions in our country.

Yeah- speaking of that, now that we have a Democratic Congress, perhaps we can get some action on the Putting Prevention First Act. See, the best way to reduce the number of abortions in this country is with safe, easily accessible BIRTH CONTROL. Unfortunately, the Religious Right has made criminalizing and/or otherwise eliminating access to birth control part and parcel of the "pro-life" agenda. Rather than pushing a taliban-esque anti birth control agenda, agitating to throw women in jail for using oral contraceptives and helping pharmacists to dispense lectures instead of filling pill prescriptions, you need to understand that people are GOING TO FUCK FOR NON-PROCREATIVE, PLEASURE PURPOSES in this country, and if you just can't bring yourself to handle that fact, perhaps you should try therapy. Want other ways to reduce abortion? Great. Support a liveable minimum wage and a SPHC system, so being poor and pregnant in this country wouldn't be such a cruel joke.

[beckstcw]

149. My Story

I came here to DU a few months ago, as a rational moderate looking for good discussion about both sides of the issues. However, as I looked around, it seemed to me that I had come to the wrong place. Instead of the intelligent, open-minded people I expected, DU seemed to be filled with crazy lunatic conspiracy theorists. Now, I also visit FR, and there are great people at both sites to go along with the lunatics.

Coming into this week, I had decided that there just weren't enough people willing to hear both sides of the argument. I was giving up and leaving.

Thank you for changing my mind. Now is not the time for either party to be divisive. As you said, we are all Americans.

[VelmaD]

155. Like I said upthread...

read the name on the front door. It say in big letters DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND. There are numerous places one can go to hear right-wing talking points spewed ad nauseum. This site is for DEMOCRATS. The right-wing side has no place here. Hence the name of the site. Sheesh.

[Wheezy]

172. Velma

Respectfully -- I appreciate your point of view, but I used to be a Republican. If I hadn't come here when I was still a registered republican, I wouldn't have learned what I know today. I wouldn't have made my first phone call to a senator or held a sign on a street corner that said "What Noble Cause?"

I am no longer a republican. I am a progressive liberal, and I wouldn't be that without having spent time here, posting, asking, learning.

[VelmaD]

180. there is a difference between coming here to learn...

and coming here to push right-wing talking points. That's what a lot of the infiltrators have ranted about over the years. They think it's acceptable to come to a site FOR DEMOCRATS and spew right-wing garbage and they try to call it "debate". *snort* You've been here a while so I figure you know what I'm talking about.

I'm just highly dubious about anyone coming in for the first time today trying to encourage us to play nice with the rethugs.

[beckstcw]

183. It's not my first time

I came here in July

But aside, I think you might have misunderstood me. I am poting here to learn about this side of the issues. But I can't just blindly accept something as true. If someone on DU, for a simple example, said the sky was red, would it be pushing a right-wing talking point to ask why they thought that, what proof they had, and why I saw the issue differently?

[Rude Horner]

188. No argument here.

You'll find that DU'ers are VERY into proof. We want proof for everything. Just beware - when you try to argue a point, you'll be asked for your proof also.

[VelmaD]

192. It depends on whether your explanation...

of why you see things differently on an issue includes right-wing talking points...then you would be pushing them.

Ya know what...this is pointless. Welcome to DU. Knock yourself out. Just remember Will Pitt's famous piece of advice...wear a cup.

[Wheezy]

189. Yup. Understandable.

:hi:

[beckstcw]

178. Look

I'm 16. I'll be voting in 2008, and in order to make an educated diecision, I wanted to hear both sides. If someone on DU says something that doesn't make sense to me, why shouldn't I be able to ask for an explanation or offer a respectful rebuttal without being swarmed as a LUOSY FREpER TR0LL!!1! ?

[VelmaD]

182. If you want to hear both sides...

then you need to go a lot of places other than DU anyway. Again...read the rules and the explanation of the purpose of the site that the admins have up. They're pretty clear that this is NOT the place to be if you're looking for the right-wing perspective on anything.

And asking questions is never a problem if it is done respectfully.

Welcome to DU.

[beckstcw]

194. Oh, I'm definitely not looking for the right-wing side of anything here

I'll look for the left side here, and the right side at FR or LGF

[Rude Horner]

184. You have every right to question anything.

People here do it all the time.

[Wheezy]

186. Sometimes...

...it helps to say something like, "I'm new at this -- can you explain".

An example...say you go to a restaurant for dinner, and your server is really slow, messes up the drinks, forgets your side of mayo for the fries, and takes forever to bring you the bill. You are frustrated, because that's not how it's 'supposed' to work. If only that server had said, upon first greeting you, "Hi, this is my first day waiting tables, and I'm still trying to figure it all out."

Doesn't that change things? You now understand and have more patience. :Shrug: That's how I see it, anyway. Good luck to you -- I wish I had cared more about politics when I was 16. :)

[Jokinomx]

171. welcome beckstcw...

I am glad that you changed your mind.

"toast"

[Rude Horner]

174. I hope you stay and give it a chance

Remember, we have a HUGE amount of registered users to this site, so you're going to get a lot of opinions and theories.

In defense of the "crazy lunatic conspiracy theorists"...I will say that DU has an incredbile group of people who are VERY much on top of the news and events. I've seen news stories break on DU DAYS before I see them in the mainstream media. Usually with a LOT more detail than I could ever get just watching the boob tube. And we DO have intelligent, open-minded people here. When people post about "conspiracy theories", you will find DU'ers demanding evidence and links. A conspiracy theory here doesn't go far unless you've got something to back it up.

[Warren DeMontague]

159. And, One More Minor Point: ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES.

Yes, yes they do.

[mloutre]

165. Don't be afraid to forgive your enemies...

..because it *really* pisses 'em off when you do that.

;0)

[Name removed]

167. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Witch]

169. Welcome to DU, galensmark.

Thanks for posting. I'm so glad you've done so.

Let's do our best.

[Rude Horner]

175. Welcome, galensmark

:hi:

[Polemonium]

173. Lead by example, nice post

:)

[The Witch]

176. (From OP) Oh my God. Guys. Thank you so much for this.

It's moments like this I feel the power of the people.

Thank you for taking this little throwaway I wrote this morning and making it your own. I have loved reading your addenda, your edits, your agreements and disagreements, and... hell, I'll be honest.. your kind words as well.

It would just be a little throwaway without all of you.

I am really so moved. Thank you.

[warrens]

177. That's REAL conservatives

You fascists and neocons...eh, not so much.

[Redstone]

190. Excellent olive branch. Maybe in a few more weeks, I'll feel that way myself.

I hope I can, anyway.

You're a true American, you are.

Redstone

[childslibrarian]

196. I agree

Well said.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

199. Looks good to me, but....

this reminds me of Charles Foster Kane's statement of principles, which he wrote out in longhand and had printed on the front page of his newspaper. Joseph Cotten asked for the original document, saying that he might need to look at it at some future date.

(The references are to the film "Citizen Kane.")

I hope you, we, whoever will live up to this.

[bling bling]

201. That's the party I want to be a part of.

Excellent post.

I want the Democrats to work for the people of this country. I'm tired of listening to the politicians blame each other and point fingers. It's unacceptable how dirty an ugly and mean and rotton politics has become. We're all in this together whether we like it or not.

And now that the Dems have some control hopefully we can get some things done that are important to the PEOPLE rather than what's important to George W. Bush and Halliburton.

[galensmark]

207. BB Post

I share your sentiments mostly. High90%
gm

[proReality]

202. Wonderful post! n/t

[Sapphocrat]

205. Nice sentiment, but you lost me at...

"We will listen to and respect your beliefs."

I'll listen, but I won't respect their beliefs. EVER.

I'm gay, in case anyone's forgotten.

Not ragging on you, Witch. Just reminding you that blanket "respect" for their twisted, hateful beliefs means condoning a lot of shit I'm sure you don't agree with.

[Name removed]

211. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sapphocrat]

221. You don't agree with me...

...and you think I should stay in the closet. Is that about right?

Well, tough shit.

[galensmark]

252. tough s

no. why is this your life defining issue? so tedious.
gm

[ThomCat]

266. It's a life defining issue

because we get harassed, discriminated against, attacked and even killed over it. We live our lives forced to worry about the bigotry and violence of straight people and straight society.

That makes is a life defining issue.

You may not get it, but hopefully a lot of other, more reasonable people do.

[NMMNG]

291. Bigotry is so tedious

Aren't you late for a stoning or cross burning?

[LostinVA]

222. ho ho ho -- have fun

[Rude Horner]

241. This is where you're going to run into problems here at DU

and what is referred to as "the pot calling the kettle black". You claim that Sapphocrat is intolerant, yet the hatred and intolerance of homosexuals comes through strong in your post.

This reminds me of my mother-in-law, who can see a dozen man/woman couples walking down the street holding hands and not say a word. Then she'll see one man/man couple walking down the street holding hands and say "Why do they always have to throw it in our faces?". You sound like you're trying to take the high road with your comment about "your sexuality is your own business", but reading between the lines it sure sounds like you want Sapphocrat to keep himself hidden away from your delicate eyes.

Seriously - think of it this way. How would you feel if someone was trying to discriminate against you, for something you had no control over? Would you be a little upset? Would you want to fight back? Of course you would.

You're right. Sapphocrat's sexuality is not my business and is of no interest to me. But I don't mean that the same way you do. I have no problems with it whatsoever. I believe we're all created equal and we should all have equal rights. It sounds like you just want to close your eyes and ears to the situation.

[Sapphocrat]

255. Thanks for trying, RH...

...and I love what you said, but don't play his game.

But thanks again. :)

[ThomCat]

267. You are awesome!

I don't think I've ever spoken to you before, but you are definitely awesome. :)

[Rude Horner]

296. Wow, thank you both!

I appreciate that. I know I've seen your names before.

I'm just shy of 1000 posts here. Maybe I'm finally starting to get better at it. I always know what I want to say in my head, but translating that to the keyboard has never been my strong suit.

Thank you both for the compliments. I really do appreciate it.

[The Witch]

215. They can believe you're going to hell all they like.

Heck, they can even say it.

(And you can bristle when they do and argue like crazy.)

That's part of what we do. We fight and sling the shit back and forth. Respect isn't condoning it.

But I think a lot of these guys need to know that we have no interest in legislating away their religious beliefs. In return, I hope they'll realize that it's unreasonable of them to try to legislate away your beliefs. Do you see where the line is? When we talk about how we interact as people, all that bitterness has a place. But in terms of governing, we need to take a step back and say "As ugly as all that is, our government can't outlaw the expression of it. The people have to fight it out on their own."

Remember, we won an election to govern this country. This WHOLE country.

We didn't win some contest of ideas in which our ideas win and the rest are thrown away. We just gained some leverage in which ideas are made policy.

The ideas we find ugly -- and the ideas they find ugly -- will keep a'flyin'. But we all need to know we have the right to them. That means gay people knowing they will not be relegated to second-class citizenship. That means religious people knowing that they are welcome to practice their religion all they like, in public and in private.

Believe it or not, those two camps are looking for the exact same thing: legitimacy.

But I digress. And there is angel hair in the microwave calling out to me...

[Sapphocrat]

243. ...

They can believe you're going to hell all they like.

Heck, they can even say it.

(And you can bristle when they do and argue like crazy.)

Goodness no, I don't bristle at all anymore when they do it -- I expect that. (As for hell itself, my attitude is expressed on one of my bumper stickers: "It's your hell -- you burn in it." LOL)

The only thing that makes me bristle is getting the shaft from people who are supposed to be on my side. I don't mean you, of course; I think you've probably seen enough get-to-the-back-of-the-bus rhetoric from in-name-only progressives to know what I mean.

Anyway, I'm certain they don't care whether or not I go to hell; they care only that they will go to hell. They're not trying to "save" me -- only themselves. And they are utterly terrified that if I am allowed to live my life as they see unfit, they will be condemned.

And I never argue with gay-haters. It's pointless (you know what they say about wrestling with pigs), and I'm certainly never going to change their minds. I'm the thing they fear most; if there's any chance of making them see the light, that's got to come from our straight allies -- living proof that "The Gay" isn't contagious, or dangerous.

But I think a lot of these guys need to know that we have no interest in legislating away their religious beliefs.

And that's where we run into a brick wall. These are people who 1) honestly believe this is a "Christian nation," endowed with some big mission by God himself; 2) not only do not believe in the separation of church and state, but believe the church/state wall is a myth made up by wild-eyed liberals; and 3) believe that if they do fail to force their religious beliefs on everyone else, they will have failed in the eyes of God. And thus go to hell.

(And I thought growing up Catholic made me "God-fearing"! Not by a long shot. LOL)

In return, I hope they'll realize that it's unreasonable of them to try to legislate away your beliefs. Do you see where the line is?

I see it, absolutely. I couldn't care less about another person's religious practices (that's what would have to be legislated away -- practices, not beliefs), as long as nobody else gets hurt.

But they do not see that line at all. You're aware of the whole "Christians are being persecuted" thing. Well, they believe it goes far beyond mere (verbal) persecution. They really do believe that no secular nation exists that has not curtailed religious freedom. You know that's a steaming pile (I always like to cite super-Catholic Spain, with its socialist leader and full marriage equality), and I know that's a steaming pile, but there is no conceivable way to make them realize it's a win-win situation (we all have the right to live our lives). They see it only as a win-lose situation: In order for me to have what I need, I'll be taking something away from you.

How can you possibly chip away at such a mindset? Especially when this message is drilled, repeatedly, into their thick skulls?

When we talk about how we interact as people, all that bitterness has a place. But in terms of governing, we need to take a step back and say "As ugly as all that is, our government can't outlaw the expression of it. The people have to fight it out on their own."

No argument here. But I'm not the one you need to convince.

Remember, we won an election to govern this country. This WHOLE country.

We didn't win some contest of ideas in which our ideas win and the rest are thrown away. We just gained some leverage in which ideas are made policy.

Again, no argument. But again, there are many who believe that if I am not a heterosexual Christian, I am not a legitimate citizen of this country. (Remember how they loved it when * Sr. said he didn't think atheists should be considered citizens? That's how they see us LGBTs.)

The ideas we find ugly -- and the ideas they find ugly -- will keep a'flyin'. But we all need to know we have the right to them. That means gay people knowing they will not be relegated to second-class citizenship. That means religious people knowing that they are welcome to practice their religion all they like, in public and in private.

Believe it or not, those two camps are looking for the exact same thing: legitimacy.

I understand it, and I believe it. But the problem stands: How does one ever convince these people that it is a win-win proposition, instead of win-lose?

Rhetorical question a-plenty here. In the end, I agree with you... even if I will never respect the beliefs of the Wrong Wing. I'll respect their right to believe any ignorant, hateful thing they want -- but I will never respect those beliefs.

[ThomCat]

270. Great break-down.

We can respect their freedoms and their personal choices, but not their ideology, because their ideology would hurt us immensely.

[ScreamingMeemie]

303. ...

:applause:

[Maven]

285. Sexuality is not the same as a "belief," thanks

And thanks, btw, for recycling two RW talking points:

1) Sexual orientation is a "state of mind"; and

2) Demanding equal rights is an assault on "religious freedom."

Nice compromise.

This entire thread has been one touchy-feely, digging-for-recommendations, lovefest with no relation to the real world. In politics, someone wins, and someone loses. Somehow there are those in our party who'd just love to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, even if they have to wrestle the beast to the ground.

[Sparkly]

212. Thanks for this.

K&R :kick:

[blondeatlast]

213. I can't add much to the accolades, but nonetheless, thank you.

:applause:

[Red1]

214. Never In a Million Years!

This tripe is exactly what the rightys like to read!

I don't need to remind you that these people ARE NOT wired like rational human beings.

I will never talk to a righty with the attitude that everythings just hunky dory now that the libs have
conquested the house and senate.

Fuck the rightys! Just like they have me and this country over the years.

[The Witch]

216. Please review your own message but with the following change:

For "righty" please read

1) Muslim
2) Gay
3) Democrat (read cons for libs)

Offended yet?

Don't you see? This is the same thing that we're doing in Iraq, that so offends us on the left. Just because we're Us and they're Them, it's okay for Us to do the same things we condemn Them for doing?

Please think about it a bit. I understand your anger. But as I said in an earlier post - we just won some elections - not "conquest" - and the job of our representatives right now is to represent and govern the entire country. Not just the liberals.

Incidentally, welcome to DU. :hi:

(Dear other DUers -- please. don't. I know.)

[Name removed]

217. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Witch]

224. Hey, c'mon, no insults in my happy shiny optimistic thread.

Don't make me pout and flutter my eyelashes at you. O8)

[Name removed]

227. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Witch]

232. Don't make me separate you two.

And Red1, your bloomers are showing. We actually don't call each other "libby." You might wanna tone it down if you want to stay for a while and not get caught? Wink, wink? Nudge, nudge?

[Red1]

220. You Do Not Understand

Times have changed, there may be a social upheaval in the future, but for now there cannot be forgiveness,

Yes, we must have cool heads, yes we must work together, BUT, never forget that the rightys will never return the favor,
the rightys are not wired to understand phrases like "we are all brothers", like "we must protect the envirnment like we would our own children"

They do not now, nor ever will "get" that.

Sure, I'll put the smile on my face when dealing with them, but I will never turn my back on those , kind again.

If you don't understand this, then you need to live a little longer.

Peace,

[The Witch]

223. That's all you can do, then, is smile but be vigilant.

There's nothing wrong with that.

[Red1]

229. Said the fox to the hen

[The Witch]

234. Why yes, I am quite foxy.

Just ask my fiance.

:evilgrin:

[Brian Stevens]

235. GREAT POST RED1

:toast:

[VOX]

298. Yeah, "GREAT POST RED1"-- How fast can you earn **your** marble slab?

AS it now appears that Mr. BS (get it?) rests up on Boot Hill. :nuke:

[Maven]

271. ABSOLUTE NONSENSE

216. Please review your own message but with the following change:
For "righty" please read

1) Muslim
2) Gay
3) Democrat (read cons for libs)

Offended yet?

I can't even believe the distortion of the truth you're trying to perpetrate.

Gays and Democrats have in NO WAY "fucked over" the right. Exactly the opposite. The wrongdoing is a one-way street, pal, and the response should be equal and opposite.

[VOX]

299. I CALL BS! DUers do NOT refer to Democrats as "the libs."

Another one digs in under the wire...

[benEzra]

326. The hard right is probably 20% of the U.S. population...

Never In a Million Years!

This tripe is exactly what the rightys like to read!

I don't need to remind you that these people ARE NOT wired like rational human beings.

I will never talk to a righty with the attitude that everythings just hunky dory now that the libs have
conquested the house and senate.

Fuck the rightys! Just like they have me and this country over the years.

The hard right is probably 20% of the U.S. population. It takes just over 50% of voters to win an election. Which means that many of the people you are telling to fuck off are same people who JUST VOTED THE SAME WAY YOU DID.

The "Let's Bash Anybody Who Isn't Pure Enough" approach is no smarter when liberals do it than when the far right does it.

Want to lose Congress again? If you do, go ahead and eviscerate any voter to the right of Nancy Pelosi, and then introduce a Dem equivalent of the Terry Schaivo, Internet-gambling-banning, TV-censoring, 4th-Amendment-shredding sideshow that the repubs have been running for a few years now.

You don't play to your base by attacking everybody who isn't in your base. That was W's mistake.

[JVS]

218. Fuck those unpatriotic assholes whose opinions don't count!

[GeorgeGist]

219. Exclude me from your WE

False optimism is how hypocrites cling to power.

[The Witch]

225. I don't speak for "Everybody" any more than you do.

Still, your objection is noted.

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

228. Beautiful post! Happy to be Rec. #125 (late to the party?)

"We need you to do this." Yes we do.

[NoBorders]

230. I bet Limpballs will mention this post like the others. Not. n/t

[The Witch]

233. If he did, I do hope he'd put out a call for me to appear on his show.

I'd love to parlay this one thread into a lifetime of fame, fortune, and caustic punditry. :rofl:

[NoBorders]

245. Ha! :-) You never know! n/t

[brentspeak]

236. Hear, hear!

:applause:

[PatrioticLeftie]

237. As much as we may want to

We mustn't rub it in their faces, the conservatives aren't our enemies. They are Americans like us, only they still believe the lies. Now is the time of restoration. Now is when return America into a country to be proud of.

Edited for clarification

[Brian Stevens]

239. It is the lies they create

That makes them enemies.

[PatrioticLeftie]

240. In case I was unclear

I was referring to those who voted generally Republican

[Brian Stevens]

244. Time for Star Wars quote..

"Whose the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows it?"

[PatrioticLeftie]

246. Are you honestly suggesting

That we should not only work against fellow citizens, but consider them an enemy? You can quote who you want how much you want, but that won't make them any less Americans.

We all were lied to and last night showed many Americans knew that the Bush Administration had been using them.

Here's a quote of my own, for what it's worth: "You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar."

Treating them like enemies will get use nowhere, you ought to know, because it's exactly how the Republicans have been treating us.

[Nick Fallon]

340. I am new, but I think I know what the poster you're responding is trying to say

I think he was saying "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer", but I could be wrong.

[Anakin Skywalker]

242. They are not dismayed. They are cursing at you over in FreepyLand.

[Sparkly]

253. I don't consider Freepers "conservatives."

I consider them deluded, frightened, small-minded bigots. Just mho.

[Sapphocrat]

284. Fascinating.

I found the thread you mentioned, and they're eating alive somebody who claims to be posting here at DU as well.

Claims to have been TS'd "about 19 time" (not "times," but "time") already, too.

And people wonder why I'm so suspicious of everyone I meet.

[Maven]

290. That is funny.

Hmm.

[datasuspect]

305. 19 times eh?

you'd think they would get the point by now.

silly republicans, trix are for kids.

[hippywife]

248. What does everyone think about sending this

to every Rep. and Sen., both (R) and (D), as a mass signed letter from DU?

A big, proud kick and rec!

[Danger Mouse]

249. Hey, uh...

John McCain said he'd kill himself if Pelosi became house speaker.
he'd better get to it, then.

[Octafish]

251. Outstanding, The Witch.

You have spelled out well the differences between the old and the new Congress.

[humbled_opinion]

254. These are all wonderful sentiments and need to be said.

However, I have been fooled before. Giving and giving only to be met with ridicule and misunderstanding over my views. Cautiously I applaud the sentiments. That said this has been a very lively thread not like any I've seen for a while around here. Is everyone in a good mood or something... hahaha

[Red1]

259. It Is a Good Time

Let the wine flow, but don't over indulge.

Let the good feelings wrap around you, but remember those that have had their lives removed by right agendas.

Let this site remain with the same tempo for understanding all the viewpoints, but contain restrictions against those that would take democracy down.

And finally, let me get to the fridge for another bud lite. :-)

Congrats to the liberals, may they always be a friend to the downtrodden and mother nature, our earth

cheers!!!

[gaijinlaw]

258. Magnanimity in victory

This ought to be the theme of Speaker Pelosi's 1st address.

[nam78_two]

260. Agreed except not when it comes to their leaders

The politicians and corporatocrats get :nopity:

Real hearings, real investigations, real results!!! Go Dems!

[Zhade]

261. You could amend "...unlike your party" to the end of those statements...

...and they'd be true.

[YOY]

262. We may call you stupid on occasion though...

Sorry, but if the shoe fits...

All of the rest is perfectly true!

[Rose Siding]

264. That's beautiful -thanks

I'll aspire to share those goals with you.

[philly_bob]

265. Dear angry world:

Text to follow, with similar sentiments.

Good work, Witch.

[SeattleGirl]

272. I promise these things too.

As angry as I am at Bush and those who follow him, I am a liberal, I am a Democrat, and we are about equality and opportunity, not suppression and punishment. So I add my promise to The Witch's, and promise too that the Dems will find my boot in THEIR behinds if they don't work at making changes that can benefit AMERICANS, regardless of their political bent.

[tinfoil tiaras]

274. Amen! Awesome post!

:D K&R

[SarasotaDem]

275. Excellent post

Teach and Lead by example.

[jwirr]

276. This is beautiful, I hope we can live up to it. Thank you.

[Thegonagle]

278. Loved it.

Let's go indeed.

[NMMNG]

280. I agree with one exception

I won't respect their beliefs when those beliefs encroach upon the freedom of others. The minute they try to use their religion or political views to keep others from having the same rights as other citizens I lose all respect.

[codjh9]

281. I'm too angry at them to agree just yet to being this nice to them, even though

I realize that this IS 'the high road', and the right one. But since they have not just fallen down on these same promises, they shit on them, and snubbed us... I can't forgive and forget 6 years overnight.

[NuttyFluffers]

286. a beautiful general sentiment directed for an audience of deaf ears.

this ends up sublime in its irony (not in content, but context). a golf clap for you, dear! best of luck making this dream come true.

[not_a_robot]

293. I like the message

I am a little confused though, what is all the talk about appeasing freepers in this thread? I think the promise it started with is applicable to americans in general. Free republic represents no one but a few very underhanded republican businessmen and the most dispicable aspect of the neo-con agenda. Most freepers are two people that use different profiles and chatter all day with authoritarian one line programming for the few very gullible unpaid participants on the site, generally ones that still don't represent most republican voters any more than the KKK grand-lizard does. I wonder if DU participants are believing the wholly incorrect assertions out there that free republic is somehow the republican equivalent of the DU. It's not, not any more than Fred phelps is the religious equivalent of the american humanist association.

[dave420]

294. Sorry???

Who are you to speak for everyone?? This site is getting worse and worse every day. Rhetoric upon rhetoric upon schmaltz upon rhetoric. We get upset when right-wingers start spouting off what they believe, so why do we thing we can do it with impunity? If we stick to the facts when discussing politics, we will truly be progressive. Sinking to the level of bickering high-schoolers or gossiping people in the check-out queue at Ralph's isn't helping anyone. And it definitely isn't helping the cause.

All this "you" and "us" bullshit needs to stop. Everyone's just "people". Some have different experiences throughout life to others, some are raised differently. That's all the difference. If that's enough for you to cast people into two disparate groups, then you're no better to those who use "them" and "us" to describe black and white, gay and straight, muslim and christian, whatever.

I shouldn't have to explain this. I thought this site was viewed by adults, not kids. Sorry if anyone finds this offensive.

[liberal N proud]

295. Some inform the "liberal" media that these are Democratic way of doing business

[casus belli]

297. THIS NEEDED TO BE SAID. Thank you.

I understand the hurt feelings and lust for revenge that has been so apparent in our party, BELIEVE ME I understand it. However, there is SO much work to be done in reversing the harm that a Republican majority has brought upon our country, that revenge politics would serve no purpose but to cause us to not be focused on the things we MUST do.

We are all Americans. There is nothing on our agenda we cannot accomplish without a solid majority of American's support, so we MUST reach out and include them in the process. We must show them what being a gracious majority is.

We must never lose sight of the fact that, although they are now a minority party, they WERE elected by Americans to represent their interests, and we need to show those Americans the respect of inclusion in the process.

Thank you for your comments, I hope they hit home for people.

[datasuspect]

302. sorry to interrupt the lovefest

but are you guys forgetting that these are the same people who send anthrax to newscasters, corrupt the national discourse with their adherence to logical fallacy, and otherwise hold democrats in TREMENDOUS, OVERWHELMING contempt?

fuck them, fuck their agenda, fuck their president. it's 2006 and we have to have a national debate about whether homosexuals should be accorded civil rights?

wtf?

these are people i do not want to play kissy face with.

the republicans are the party of death, manipulation, and vileness.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

317. Not really big on getting things accomplished, are you?

Your extreme attitude is what send people running like hell away from politics.

This is our opportunity to move PAST your attitude and accomplish something for the country. The best revenge is to stay above that level of hate and get back to who we are.

[datasuspect]

320. what is so extreme about truth

you managed to say absolutely nothing except spit out some rw nonsense talking point gibberish.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

321. So gettting things accomplished

is rw nonsense talking point gibberish? Who knew?

[datasuspect]

327. save it for someone else.

pull the wool over your own eyes.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

329. I'd say

"bite me" but I'm way too polite.

[datasuspect]

330. eh

if it suits you. rock on with your bad self.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

336. Well, I'll give you the last word...

or I guess I haven't.

Grannie and her bad self

[SheepyMcSheepster]

307. Kick!

[Theres-a]

310. Excellent post .......Should have 26,227,779 rec.s,imo

:hug:

[leftofthedial]

322. what are you

some sort of commie?


:thumbsup:

[Name removed]

325. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sparkly]

328. Hi/Bye. nt

[Don_1967]

332. I am a proud moderate Democrat

and agree100 % couldn't have said it better myself.

[canaar]

334. I'm OK with this so long as

If we are talking softly, we are carrying a big stick that we are skilled in using, that we are willing to use and that we do use when attacked, not pre-emptively, but decisively.

[jgraz]

341. Here's what the freepers think of your olive branch

Another poster grabbed this from a freeper site:

Dear dismayed conservatives:

I hereby make these promises to you. We can define what promise means later.

We will protect your lives and livelihoods. How will you do this without guns?

We will listen to and respect your beliefs. Right, and then turn around and force everyone to go along with yours.

We will never try to force you to change your religion, sexual orientation, or first language. But we will certainly force your kids to do so.

We will do our best to reduce the number of abortions in our country. By calling them something else.

We will have no tolerance for corruption and cronyism, even in our own party. However, our minds our so reprobate we can no longer recognize what corruption or cronyism are.

ESPECIALLY in our own party. (Except the Inner Party.)

We will never tell you that you are unpatriotic. Because we don't care about patriotism.

We will never tell you that your opinion doesn't count. But we will think it, and do what we can to count our votes twice while dumping yours in the trash.

We will never waste your lives for power. We will sacrifice them for power in the most stewardly way we know how.

We will hold our leaders to a high ethical standard and when they succumb to lust for power, WE WILL HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE. But no matter how illegal or immoral their behavior, we will let them continue to hold office.

If we forget this, please, please, please, remind us. So we can politely ignore you.

We need you to do this. You are America as much as we are. Because without you, there wouldn't be an America.


Well, maybe I've been listening to too much Mike Malloy, but here's how I would "reach out" to the right wing:

Dear Degenerate Fuckheads:

We hereby make these promises to you.

We will protect our lives and livelihoods from your predatory, murderous policies.

We will listen to and respect your beliefs, but we will never again allow your medieval superstitions to run our lives.

We will never try to force you to change your religion, sexual orientation, or first language. And if you ever try to do this to us we will kick your ass into next week.

We will do our best to reduce the number of abortions in our country. By allowing your ignorant brood to learn about healthy sexuality and birth control.

We will have no tolerance for corruption and cronyism, even in our own party. ESPECIALLY since we'll have no place to put them with all y'all taking up all the prison space.

We will never tell you that you are unpatriotic. As long as you pay your fair share of taxes without complaint and sign up to fight in any war you support. Oh, and try to cut down on outing our covert foreign operatives.

We will never tell you that your opinion doesn't count. Because "opinion" is a big word and you might not understand us. Instead we'll just say "shut the fuck up you inbred moron."

We will never waste your lives for power. We'll let you waste them on crystal meth and gay prostitutes.

We will hold our leaders to a high ethical standard and when they succumb to lust for power, THEY'LL STILL BE TWENTY TIMES BETTER THAN THE NAZI FREAKS YOU VOTE FOR.

If we forget this, please, please, please, remind us. So we can go out back and shoot ourselves like you would if you had any shred of self-respect.

We need you to do this. After all, we need somebody to pick up the trash and park our cars. But put a towel down first -- I just had it detailed and I don't want to get Redneck all over the leather.

[Nick Fallon]

342. excellant post nt