Would You Have Traded Chafee for Corker? I Would've

[CorpGovActivist]

It's hard to argue with the overall result, but I would like to go on the record as saying: Senator Lincoln Chafee is a patriot.

In fact, Senator Chafee was one of only a few GOP Senators with whom I publicly shared my letter to Senators Byrd and Rockefeller, regarding the Halliburton matters: http://www.halwhistleblowers.org/

For me, the Chafee loss is bittersweet. Here's a man who defied the President on key floor votes when many Democrats didn't, "couldn't," or wouldn't.

In a heartbeat, I would have traded Chafee for Corker last night. Ford will eventually get a Senate seat - I'd lay a wager of hard liquor on it.

But the loss of Chafee hurts progressives, whistleblowers, and all Americans, in ways that may not be immediately apparent.

I have little doubt that Chafee will find a way to continue to renew and re-energize the progressive, moderate, and libertarian wing of his party. But his footsteps will be missed on Capitol Hill. For such a slight man, the earth shook when he walked by.

- Dave

[quinnox]

I agree

I liked Chafee and it is sad to see him go, one of the few good old line republicans that were left.

[CorpGovActivist]

5. It Will Be Interesting to See...

... Bay and Pat try to spin this.

- Dave

[Salviati]

18. Meh...

In my mind, the only good republican was Jim Jeffords. He saw what his party was doing, and decided that he couldn't be a part of that. At this stage, all of the so called "moderate" republicans are enablers of their parties wrongdoing, any hope of "changing them from the inside" is nothing more than wishful thinking and self delusion.

With the kind of people that are currently in charge of the GOP the only way change will come is through attrition, and that will only come as the result of massive, humiliating defeat. I'd trade any one of them for any Dem any day of the week.

[CorpGovActivist]

26. Now in the Minority...

... the moderates may find a more attentive audience inside the GOP now.

- Dave

[kiahzero]

60. Chafee is more liberal than Ford would have been

The only problem with Chafee was his vote for Senate Majority Leader.

[kiahzero]

1. Too bad we couldn't actually make that trade.

Or even have gotten Chafee to switch parties.

[CorpGovActivist]

7. In a 50-50 Tie, I Think...

... he would have pulled a Jeffords.

- Dave

[Tyler Durden]

22. He had a chance to do that...and Jeffords DID do that.

Chaffee has to eat "guilt by association." Too fucking bad. He'd rather "fight than switch."

[lazyriver]

23. I'd have taken either of those options for him

He is an unfortunate casualty but if his ultimate allegiance was to the 'R' after his name, it was a necessary casualty in this most important election cycle. I wish him well and believe he is a good man. Maybe he will consider switching parties and making a strong comeback in the not too distant future. He would make a damn fine Democrat and I think most of us would be proud to have him.

[Maven]

2. I would have too.

I'd also like a toilet seat made out of solid gold, baby. But some things just aren't in the cards.

Chafee wasn't a bad guy, I'll give you that. But his party affiliation is what it is. A moderate enabler is an enabler nonetheless.

[CorpGovActivist]

9. Chafee's Floor Votes...

... did much, much, much less to "enable" Bush than many Democratic Senators'.

- Dave

[Tyler Durden]

17. He "enabled" Bush just by having "R" after his name.

This rePuke majority has stacked the deck so horribly with rules changes that they were actually ready to pull "the Nuclear Option."

"Permanent Republican Majority" my ass. Blow me, Bush, and all other rePukes.

[Tyler Durden]

10. Lie down with dirty dogs, get up with fleas.

I specify dirty because our doggies are so clean they actually smell nice.

Chaffee had his shot. His "tradition" was more important to him than the nation. Hubris.

[grizmaster]

and his republican masters were more important than his constituents

[Tyler Durden]

29. Name one rePuke who felt differently.

I can't.

[lisa58]

3. Absolutely!

[Buttercup McToots]

4. Senator Chafee

I always liked him...
What matters is honesty most of all...

[CorpGovActivist]

11. He Had That...

... and grace under pressure, in abundance.

- Dave

[Armstead]

6. It was too bad that Chaffee was a loser in all of this

One of the few Repuglicans in the Senate with principles and a spine. There are many other ones I would have much rather seen go.

[stanwyck]

78. A class act. The Repubs should all aspire

to his fairness and thoughtfulness.
He's the opposite of a guy like Santorum. I'm so glad the last of Newt's pack is about gone. They were divisive and totally self serving. And they didn't respect our Constitution.

[Lucky Luciano]

8. Chafee would have won if he were a D.

We could nto afford to elect a R even if this particular R was not so bad. The balance of power in the senate is too important. Maybe having lost, he will chnange affiliations ?

[CorpGovActivist]

14. No, He'll Seek to Renew...

... the old line of progressive, libertarian, small "c" conservatism within the GOP.

- Dave

[ncrainbowgrrl]

12. absolutely.

Lincoln Chaffee is a patriot and a good man. Bob Corker... well.. um... (Crap- I need to say something nice, don't I?) ... Well... he won his race. (there! I did it!)

[TornadoTN]

19. Not much good to say about Corker, that's for sure

Chaffee was a victim of circumstance, but I think Whitehouse will be a great Senator as well.

Corker on the other hand is a one-termer - he will make his fortune and ride away laughing in the faces of those who supported him. He's a puppet - nothing more.

[CorpGovActivist]

30. Chafee ----> Whitehouse Transition

I bet many whistleblowers hope that Chafee does a thorough transition with Whitehouse.

- Dave

[TornadoTN]

45. Here's to hoping, but Chafee is standup so he will!

BTW, I appreciate all of your personal efforts in corporate whistleblowing. I'm a Marketing Executive but I'm also in charge of Corporate Governance for our company and I am always using your example as a great tool to illustrate keeping things on the clean and doing what's right.

[CorpGovActivist]

49. That's an Odd Dual Hatted Role

LOL.

; )

- Dave

[TornadoTN]

55. You're not kidding!

But if you knew the company, you'd understand - I'm one of the few in upper management that have an MBA, let alone a college degree. Since things are really starting to grow by leaps and bounds, it fell incumbent on me to step up to the plate on that category. Otherwise, it would have fell to someone that A. Has no clue and B. Easily influenced by the pursuit of profit (G.O.P.'er).

[CorpGovActivist]

63. Sounds Like You Wear Both Hats...

... quite well.

Still...LOL.

- Dave

[grizmaster]

13. Chafee spent the last 5 years wearing bush kneepads

and that is unforgiveable.

If it wasn't for Chafee, Bolton's nomination never would have made it to the Senate floor. And once Chafee had done what his GOPer masters had told him to do, they let him off the leash to vote against Bolton when his vote meant nothing.

It's been 5 years of Chafee being bush's b!tch whenever his vote was critical, and then trying to claim he was actually representing his constituents when his vote meant nothing.

He was a poser of the worst sort and we are well to be rid of him.

[CorpGovActivist]

21. I Welcome Civil Discourse...

... on the topic.

But it might help for you to compare Chafee's actual voting record with some Dems', before we start.

- Dave

[grizmaster]

35. Chafee's votes in committee is where he betrayed RIers and dems

and then he would go on the floor once the dirty work was done and cast the occassional vote for dem values to cover his ass back home.

I voted for him last time and he betrayed me. And because of Chafee it will be a long time before I again give support to a so-called RINO.

And again, the Bolton nomination is by far the best example of how he betrayed us. He voted for Bolton in committee saying bush should be allowed to choose his own people, then voted against him on the floor saying he was unfit for the office when he knew his vote meeant nothing.

He's a turncoat and casting one vote against the Iraq invasion does not forgive all the other votes he gave to bush.

[LSK]

25. I guess you never watch CSPAN and dont follow votes

:shrug:

[grizmaster]

40. I do, and it's his committe votes

on critical issues that gave the GOP the deciding vote, not his speeches on the floor that show who he really supported.

And as an RIer and can tell you he certainly wasn't representing my interests when it counted.

[Marie26]

31. He voted against the Iraq War.

Showing more courage & independence than most Democrats at the time.

[CorpGovActivist]

34. Amen!

Too many have gotten caught up in the "if it has an R after its name, it must be bad" demagoguery.

- Dave

[grizmaster]

50. that's only one vote

an important one, but it still doesn't let him off the hook for his other actions in the Senate. He's my Senator and I expect him to represent RI intersts. And RI has the absolute lowest bush approval at 23% last I checked.

And while Chafee did some decent things (most noteably on whistleblower issues as others have pointed out) I'll take a real dem like Whitehouse over the occassional dem Chafee any day. And believe me, Whitehouse knows how pissed RIers were about Chafee giving aid and comfort to the enemy and will carry forward the things Chafee was doing good work on and add to that a full and true slate of dem values and votes in the Senate.

[CorpGovActivist]

53. My Partner and I Spend Lots of Time in RI...

... he has family there. Interesting political climate, to say the least!

- Dave

[grizmaster]

62. bluest state in the union

with a great political and artist base.

[grizmaster]

51. delete dupe post

[grizmaster]

52. delete dupe post

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

15. He should have switched parties. Snowe/Collins - are you listening?

New England republicans are becoming rare, like white southern democrats in the Reagan era. It's time to change parties or get dumped.

Sorry for the loss of a good man, but having the committee chairs, like the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, is what matters right now.

[lazyriver]

32. As a Mainer I hope Snowe&Collins are listening

Too bad my fellows Mainers throw such support behind them. A stronger showing by Hay Bright might have gotten Snowe's attention.

[VelmaD]

16. All I could think last night...

was "Can we trade him out for Trent Lott?"

[CorpGovActivist]

33. The Silver Lining in the Chafee Loss...

... is that it actually strengthens the hand of Snowe and Collins within the caucus, now.

- Dave

[VelmaD]

54. Ok...that isn't making any sense to me

How exactly does the loss of a moderate republican help other moderate repubs? Seems to me it's just the opposite...it shows that they are more vulnerable.

[CorpGovActivist]

61. How Many More Can the GOP Afford to Lose?

The loss of Chafee makes Senators like Snowe and Collins more powerful, by allowing them to be more independent: "Do you want me to lose like Chafee?" they can ask, pointedly, to the RNC and the White House.

- Dave

[grizmaster]

66. I think the answer to that is yes

I do want them to lose like Chafee. They are welcome to become dems but you can't support a despot part-time and expect to get a dem's support.

I say the thing to do now is invite them to leave the dark side

[CorpGovActivist]

69. There's Where I Invite You...

... to read up on the old line strain of progressive, moderate, libertarian GOP thinking.

If everyone becomes a Dem, we'll be back to absolute power corrupting absolutely.

- Dave

[Phillycat]

71. I agree with this - long-term thinking, very good.

:thumbsup:

[grizmaster]

75. I'm quite familiar with it

and I miss arguing with reasoned conservatives. I found William F Buckley infuriatingly hard to brush aside his arguments.

But the neocons aren't finished yet and when your enemy is drowning I say throw him an anchor and finish the job. I'd love to see a reasoned 2nd party emerge. I just don't see the GOP fitting the bill.

In the meantime I say invite decent folks to join us, as in join the dem party. If the GOP wakes up and drains the swamp before Speaker Pelosi does it for them, they might be able to win my respect back in a decade or two. But I'm not holding my breath.

[CorpGovActivist]

76. LOL...Buckley...

... I have the same reaction to many of George F. Will's writings.

- Dave

[Phillycat]

73. No, no, you've got it wrong

Do you want every election to be a Conservative-to-Moderate Dem candidate versus a crazy neocon? I know we won last night, but I don't want that for the rest of my damned life, or my children's, or my children's children.

Change has to come inside the Republican party - thoughtful, moderate, old-guard Repubs who believe in things like small government must overtake the crazed neocons who have NOTHING in common with them. Then Dems can move back further left where they belong and we can come to some semblence of sanity again in this country. Where I don't have to be terrified of every election.

[CorpGovActivist]

74. Amen and Hallelujah...

... the system of checks and balances our Founders designed work best with opposing forces working to produce sound public policy for the common good.

- Dave

[grizmaster]

77. The GOP has proven themselves (so far) to be beyond hope

of becoming an opposition party with anything other than absolute power on their mind and on their agenda.

There is definitely a need for another party to keep everybody (relatively) honest. How about we finish off the GOP and let the dem party split along on conservative/liberal lines after the GOP funeral?

[seabeyond]

20. i like chafee. out of all the repugs, he is the one i didnt want to see go

tis the way it is though

[CorpGovActivist]

36. Agreed...

... no mulligans in this game. Play it where it lays.

- Dave

[LSK]

24. it depends if we get control of the Senate or not

If Webb and Tester win, then NO.

Otherwise, you have a point.

[CorpGovActivist]

39. I've Already Built in Twin Victories...

... in MT and VA into the equation.

- Dave

[Phillycat]

27. He should have switched parties long ago

He would have won by 90% as a Dem last night.

[Inuca]

44. Loyalty? Family tradition?

I do not know what keeps him a republican, but he surely votes WAY better than quite a few right-wing dems. ANd he truly seems to be a nice person. He would have easily won even as an independent.

[CorpGovActivist]

59. Working within the System...

... to restore the party to its roots.

Two very powerful voices in the minority GOP Senate caucus now? Snowe and Collins.

- Dave

[Marie26]

28. I do like him

But not enough to give up a Democratic majority for. Maybe he can switch parties & run again in 2008.

[Patsy Stone]

37. Yes

I would have.

[CorpGovActivist]

43. Ford Will Be a GREAT Candidate...

... for the other TN seat! Chafee will be missed.

- Dave

[TornadoTN]

47. Ford has time to find his direction

He will have to contrast himself sharply with Alexander in order to not fall victim like he did in this race. I'm hoping he moderates his views on the war and the erosion of our liberties, then he will wipe the floor with Alexander who does nothing to excite anyone in this state.

[CorpGovActivist]

65. I Suspect...

... that nation-wide, Ford will draw tremendous support - financial and "in kind" - in preparation for his matchup with Lamar.

- Dave

[Patsy Stone]

58. Corker is a scary man.

I was never frightened by Chafee.

[burythehatchet]

38. I feel a real loss with Chafee's defeat

he did the right thing when the right thing wasn't cool.

[Cha]

41. Yeah, too bad about the

inequities of a Chaffee loss and corker win.

OTH, Yay, Senator Sheldon Whitehouse!



http://www.whitehouseforsenate.com/?page_id=36

[CorpGovActivist]

46. Absolutely Congrats to Whitehouse!

Good point.

- Dave

[grizmaster]

68. You got that right. GO SHELDON!!

I know he'll do us prouder than Chafee ever did.

[Lurking Dem]

42. I live in Tennessee.

I would trade Corker for Daihatsu Charade.

That said, I really liked Chafee.

[distantearlywarning]

48. I actually feel the same way.

I felt bad about the Chafee loss. I think it sends the wrong message to moderate Republicans. All this result tells them is that they will get shafted by both sides unless they are extremists.

I would much rather have had a Dem loss in RI, and a Dem win in Tennessee.

[CorpGovActivist]

67. Determined Moderates...

... will be making the argument within the GOP - LOUDLY - that Pat and Bay need to be told their Reign of Terror is over.

The hijacking that took place in 1992 should have been ended long ago.

- Dave

[in_cog_ni_to]

56. ABSOLUTELY! Chaffee was one of the few repubs in the Senate that I could

tolerate. He's not a bad guy, he's just a member of the WRONG party.:)

[Hidden Stillness]

57. I Agree--Chaffee Would Have Fit Really Well With Us in the Senate

I am also sorry that Lincoln Chaffee lost, and I hope Chaffee will run again for something--even Senate again. Chaffee was one of the best of the old-fashioned liberal New England Republicans who would have been great with us in charge. Also, Olympia Snowe of Maine, another great one of this type, won in Maine. On a recent thread where I posted about Chaffee, the poster opihimoimoi made the comment that Chaffee should have switched Parties and become a Dem a while ago, and somebody made that comment here, too. Cheffee is still really popular in Rhode Island, but Bush and Republicans are not. This was a shame; I wish Chaffee had won.

[CorpGovActivist]

70. Snowe and Collins...

... will get a boost within the GOP caucus out of this, if nothing else.

- Dave

[ToeBot]

64. opps

[Double T]

72. ABSOLUTELY! The Democrats lost a GREAT moderate Republican FRIEND!!