A thread about Santorum's kids

[burythehatchet]

Last night I did not get to see Santorum's speech where his son was bawling behind Rickie as he conceded. I was pretty surprised that a lot of people were mocking the kid because he was crying. Some posters complained and probably rightfully so.

However...I watched the speech this morning and I was absolutely shocked at what I saw. The issue wasn't the fact that the kid was crying, it was what happened when Santorum finished his speech.

Before I share my observation I have to say that when my kids are in trouble, I know it. No matter where they are I know when they ar in distress, and my only objective is to comfort them.

When Santorum finished his speech, he turned to his wife and gave her a hug. His son was on the other side, lookinf for comfort or even some acknowledgement from his father that he was very sad. Daddy Rick would not even acknowledge the kid. The young boy kept trying to seek comfort and his father cold not even manage to give him a hug. When the son out his arm around his dad, Rick gave him a half hearted arm on the shoulder and turned away.

Maybe I'm being over-analytical but I was so sad for the kid. What kind of father would treat his son that way. Maybe if there was an embryo crying behind him, Rick may have been able to squeeze out a little compassion. What as ashole.

video at http://thinkprogress.org/

[julialnyc]

1. He shouldn't have dragged his kids on stage

and it certainly didn't look like he gave them a "it's fine, we're fine" speech before they went on. I would never expose and humiliate my kids like that!

[xultar]

31. Agreed. It was his loss. His kids shouldn't have been up there.

[Caoimhe]

2. I feel bad for all of his kids

It's obvious they are purely luggage to him. He should not have paraded them up there like that. My father ran for a local office when I was a kid and even though it was a tiny little race, when he lost it was very upsetting to all of us. It is hard to fathom someone not liking your dad when you love him with all your heart. We watched Santorum concede last night and I was in tears watching his poor kids. They don't deserve to have such a dick for a dad, but they do love him.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. Who gives a shit?

We've got work to do people.

[Beausoir]

8. You must or you wouldn't be posting.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. No, I quite honestly don't give a shit.

Do you?

[Beausoir]

12. I can tell..that's why you keep hanging around in here.

LOL.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. I keep hanging in here...

because I think it's a pretty damn stupid thing to care about.

Now- tell me why you care.

[Dora]

14. You're pretty funny, BAH. And I don't mean ha ha.

Arguing for the sake of argument, even when there is none. Repeatedly hanging around threads to point out, over and over again, that you think the OP or the poster is stupid.

You are the sound of one hand clapping.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. I noticed nobody's answering my question.

:shrug:

[Dora]

19. Looks like nobody wants to talk to you.

:shrug:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. Well, nobody wants to answer my question.

I'm going to have to assume it's because I'm right.

Honestly- who gives a shit?

[Dora]

24. Damn. I hope you're not as lonely as you seem.

It's a hard job assuming your rightness when nobody will validate it.

You have my sympathy, but beyond that cheap and meaningless expression, I really don't give a shit about whether or not you give a shit.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Still no answer.

I'm perfectly happy. You?

What I'm going to have to conclude, Dora, is that nobody really gives a shit about Santorum's kids, including their parents and holier-than-thou sticks in the mud.

[Dora]

29. "Perfectly happy."

Who asked? Not me.

You see, "nobody really gives a shit" about your happiness except you. And as long as you're right and you continue to have your one-sided arguments and assumptive victories, then you're golden.

Carry on, man. It works for you.

[Dogmudgeon]

35. It's why I fight

If you're just being "too hip for the room", then you can skip over this; no harm, no foul. And I speak for only myself. But if you really are interested, here's why *I* don't mock the Santorum kids; and, yes, why I could be said to care about them.

I live in an area with a lot of "Churchianity". The kids do NOT have an easy row to hoe. Way too many of these Radical Religious Rightists are in power. We can see the effects of their venom on their children. They are the canaries caught in their parents' toxic coal mines. And they are compelled to work the black seam every day.

Or I could stop with the metaphors and go to direct experience. Christian child-raising manuals -- basically, how-to guides for child abuse, and textbooks for inculcating the "poisonous pedagogy" described by Alice Miller -- outsell all other child-raising manuals in the local bookstore by a ratio of over 2-to-1.

These kids, the Santorum kids as well as millions of others, live what we would face if their parents were to assume full power. Fortunately, as of last night, that threat seems to be over ... for a while, at least, but not forever. Because they themselves will grow up ... to pass the emotional disease on, in turn, to their children.

That's why I care about the Santorum kids -- about all kids, in one way or another. Not in a maudlin, weepy way, but I care about them enough to oppose their parents' craziness. In the case of dealing with the adult sphere of influence, that would put me in the political world. So I work to reduce, or end, this "mass psychology of fascism". It is all of a piece.

No, I'm not perfectly happy. Not by a long way. There's still a lot of work to do. From the political agenda to the day-to-day lives of kids, and every point in between, we've only started to recover the enormous amount of ground we lost over the past 26 years. I hope you're in with us.

--p!

[NMMNG]

50. People who aren't devoid of human compassion.

People who don't like seeing innocent children used as tools.

People who are tired of the Rethugs and their abuse of people for their own agenda.

That's who gives a sh*t.

[yella_dawg]

27. Dude.

If you're not willing to feign emotional involvement when some archetypal asshole uses his children for political gain, you are posting in the wrong thread.

Geeze!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. LOL

:thumbsup:

[Cha]

43. LOL is

right. :D

[LittleClarkie]

54. Seems pretty obvious. Who gives a shit? The OP for one.

And the rest of the folks who responded to her question for another. There ya go.

[LittleClarkie]

53. So show how much you don't give a shit by not responding to the thread

that contains an observation you don't give a shit about. You must give a shit about something regarding the thread or you wouldn't have bothered with it.

[ContraBass Black]

32. I dislike calling attention to the underage children of candidates here

Regardless of how they are used by their parents. It bothers me every time I see it, so I give a shit.



There, somebody answered your question.

[LostinVA]

57. I agree

[Fierce]

4. It's sad, and I find it sad that people at DU are piling on.

They're kids. That's it.

[LanternWaste]

36. I agree

I agree. It frustrates me to see progressives telling me/us (for all intents and purposes) "Fuck the kids-- unless their parents are on our side of the aisle"

[Yavin4]

5. Rick Doesn't Want His Son Turning Gay

Comforting your son makes him Gay.
:sarcasm:

[Quantess]

16. If he doesn't want his son to turn out gay, he should do what Dobson suggests.

Dobson (Focus on the Family) advises fathers to stand naked in front of their young sons. By showing a grown man's penis to a little boy, the boy will admire the adult sized penis and will aspire to become manly and heterosexual, "just like dad".:crazy: :o

(True! I can find a link if anyone doubts me)

[Buzz Clik]

28. I don't follow the fundies much...

Did Dobson really say that?

[Bluebear]

30. Oh he absolutely did.

[Quantess]

47. Here's a couple of links

It's about 4 headlines down, under "Friend or Foe":
http://www.topix.net/who/focus-on-the-family/keepmedia

Another site. It's about halfway down:
http://www.desertratdemocrat.com/archives/2005/08/dobsons_world_w_1.html

[Horse with no Name]

6. Santorum is a heartless bastard

I am SHOCKED that liberals--who I hold to a higher level of discourse--are ridiculing a crying child. Kind of takes some of the wind out of my sails for our victory.
Anyway...knowing Santorum and his bag of evil tricks..how to make them cry...something along the lines of ..We have to move out of our house, the evil Democrats took my job...or we won't be having Christmas this year...the evil Democrats took my job.
I feel nothing but sorrow for these kids...who were obviously in need of comfort and love. Instead they were rebuked by their parents, and ridiculed by people who should know better.

[AlCzervik]

7. i was ashamed of Santorum, more than usual. He knew those kids were upset

before they went on stage. Shame, shame, shame on him for putting his children through that.

[Phillycat]

42. Yes, they came out crying.

I watched it on our local (Philly) news and they showed them coming onstage, and the kids were already crying their eyes out and obviously had been for some time. It was BULLSHIT for Santorectum to have put them through that in the national spotlight.

That said, the whole family DOES seem kinda strange, don't they?

[undeterred]

44. kind of like the Addams Family, but not amusing

[earth mom]

10. Men don't cry. Doncha know?

That's very likely Santorum's attitude. But then he's a pig for using his kids for political purposes in the first place.

However, I will save my REAL sympathy for the kids of Katrina & Iraq & elsewhere who are experiencing REAL hardship.

[Sapphire Blue]

11. That moment in time painted a very clear portrait of Santorum.

He's a cold-hearted bastard who openly rejected his hurting son.

I would like to think that posters here would not mock a hurting child, but, sadly, I've come to know better.

[burythehatchet]

46. I have two sons and I was

heartbroken. As a person who suffered much childhood abuse, it is something to which I can never be hardened.

[rpgamerd00d]

15. Hope his son gets used to losing...

... or grows up to be a Dem.

[LeftHander]

17. I saw that and I think that the kid did not want to be there...

And was bawling becasue his father made him. Thus the snubbing by Santorum.

[Goblinmonger]

20. Oh, come on, their dad's a douchebag.

If he is going to parade kids that young out there for whatever fucked up purpose he did, it isn't wrong of me to get a little bit of humor out of the fact that his kids are realizing that there dad is a douchebag.

This is not like the Clintons who did NOTHING to bring Chelsey into the spotlight--and actually did everything possible to keep her out of it--and then Rush went after her anyway. And chuckling a little because of the reaction is not the same as going after the looks of a teenage girl (who, if I can say so without being punked, is smokin' hot these days).

[librechik]

22. boys don't cry--he'll get a lickin for that when he gets home

what a travesty

[burythehatchet]

62. exactly. emotional abuse followed by physical abuse

[txindy]

23. They are definitely a freakish family, led by the King of Freaks, himself.

Any 'man' that would foist a dead fetus on his children, bringing it home so they could 'get to know' it before it was buried, is truly warped.

Those poor kids don't stand a chance.

[Monk06]

55. "Those poor kids don't stand a chance." The man's a child abuser and he will pay...

Those kids are going to make a point
of being the antithesis of everything
he thinks he stands for.

I just hope they don't end up in jail
or dead in an alley with a needle in
their arm.

[bleedingheart]

26. Santorum is a heartless fuck who has tried to use his kids

to win his election...that didn't work...then he trots them onto a stage so that the country can see his pain...and that won't work either.


I feel bad for the kids but what kind of stupid do you have to be to bring your kids out when you know the news is bad and you know it will hurt them?

[Virginia Dare]

34. I think it is for the betterment of his family that he lost...

they were obviously too wrapped up emotionally in Daddy winning, and that's not a good thing. This family needs to reprioritize their values.

True, Daddy lost his "job", but I don't think they'll have to worry about putting food on the table or a roof over their heads, or getting adequate health care anytime soon. I'm sure they'll be just fine, unlike many other people in this country.

[ContraBass Black]

37. Are you sure he wasn't turning to the daughter?

[LynneSin]

39. Is that kid giving us the middle finger

:shrug:

I feel bad for the kids but only because Santorum has been using them as campaign fodder now for 12 years. No kid deserves to be treated in that manner

[ContraBass Black]

45. When I wore glasses, I usually pushed them up with my middle finger.

[PA Democrat]

38. Santorum has a history of using his kids shamelessly as campaign props

In the 2000 race he had an ad that ran non-stop that featured all 6 of his kids. Last month he had another ad in which his children made comments defending him for living in Virginia. He got so much bad feedback on the ad that his campaign pulled it after a few days. Rick uses his kids to further his political aspirations and those kids are home schooled to prevent them from hearing any point of view except sicko daddy's.

I pity those kids.

[LynneSin]

40. You and me both

Kids should not be treated as campaign fodder

[Red Right and BLUE]

41. I noticed that, too.

He seemed all alone. The "least favorite" child. I felt sad for him.

I really wish DU'ers weren't so quick to make fun of these children. If it's not a topic of interest, then that's perfectly fine, but I see making fun of them as something a repuke would do.

[renate]

48. aren't the two lighter-haired kids near him part of the family?

I hope so--it would have been a shame if he really were up there by himself (relatively speaking).

I thought the way Santorum's daughter couldn't keep herself from leaning toward him for comfort was kind of sweet. She was trying to hold it together (I suspect less from parental pressure than from peer pressure--kids that age don't like to cry in public) but at one point it got to be too much and she went to her father for comfort. I saw nothing amusing or manipulative in that.

Whatever we may think of his politics and religious views, I don't think we have any solid reason to assume that he's an unloving father. It's not fair to look at a family in a very high-stress moment and make all kinds of assumptions about their day-to-day relationships.

(p.s. This is OT, but I also think the way that he and his wife dealt with the loss of their baby was a perfectly valid way of coping. Bringing the baby home for the other kids to say goodbye to him may seem bizarre to people who haven't suffered a fetal loss, or even to some who have, but it has never seemed strange to me; in fact, I thought it was touching. People deal with grief in their own way, and if it works for them, it is not for anybody else to judge.)

[Red Right and BLUE]

49. That's how I feel about it.

I probably would not do it, but I saw nothing "freaky" about it. I have lost a baby and would have liked to see her face.

[NMMNG]

51. But just think how much more sympathy he got while that child cried

If he comforted the child and the child stopped crying, the sympathy might have stopped.

The Rethugs use every emotionally manipulative trick in the book, and if a child has to suffer for them to rack up votes, sympathy points or donations, so be it.

[Azathoth]

52. That's the conservative way: "Take it like a man."

"When you get old enough and big enough, you can make smaller people cry. Until then, suck it up."

[treestar]

56. Feeling cynical this morning but could they have instructed these

kids to act this way, in order to garner sympathy?

Maybe I'm being too cynical, I recently read a Marge Piercy novel about a political family from Pennsylvania - fiction, I know. But the whole family and everything they did was geared to publicity. Which sounded like it hit a realistic chord.

[fladonkey]

59. Santorum's family....

last weekend (before the election) I saw a clip on CNN of Santorum campaigning somewhere with his wife and daughter. Rick was trying to be upbeat (I think it was in Lancaster, PA), but his wife and little girl looked exhausted. I know the adult children of several politicians and it is very hard to see your parents fail so publicly. I'm old enough to remember the Nixon girls in 1960 when he lost the presidency and even though I couldn't stand RN I felt sorry for his family. I don't think it was an act, I think the kids were genuinely upset and probably very very tired. I watched Santorum concede at about 11:00 PM so the kids were probably exhausted. Folks, give them a break, we won let's be a little gracious about it.

[watercolors]

58. It was not a place for the children to be in the first place.

I couldn't believe they were present for such a upsetting situation.

[neebob]

60. So I'm guessing

my posts were among those complained about, and yeah I mocked the kid. How horrible of me. After all, he's only what - 5, 7, 11, 13? (Those are the approximate ages of the four Santorum boys, based on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Santorum#Early_life.2C_education.2C_and_legal_career">this Wiki article.)

Everyone knows kids are empty vessels with no personalities of their own and no experience outside of their immediate families. Rick Santorum's kid can't possibly be accountable for his behavior. It's so much better to sit around trying to get inside his father's head, remote-viewing his private life and analyzing his parenting and inventing reasons to feel sorry for the kid.

Do I need the dripping sarcasm icon here?

I'm sorry (and I mean that as a figure of speech), but it's not normal for a teenage or even a pre-teenage boy to be crying his eyes out like that over his extremely well-paid and well-connected father losing his Senate seat. I'm sure it does have a lot to with how he's been raised and what he's been led to believe, but he's still just an exceptionally privileged kid acting nonsensically.

And this is still just a political message board in cyberspace and not some rarefied think tank where geniuses get paid to share their enlightened thoughts with the world. People make comments. Some are less thoughtful and compassionate than others.

I saw a kid being a weenie, and I said so. Big deal.

[burythehatchet]

61. I think you started out taking issue with my comments

and ended supporting my view. Read the last three paragraphs of your post. The kid didn't get that way by himself, he is a product of a patriarch who believes that the Puritan era was the way things ought to be now. It is child abuse. As a victim of many years of abuse I do not blame the child. His life is pretty much screwed.

[neebob]

65. I didn't intend to agree or disagree with you, specifically.

I was responding to the all the comments and the broader context of this thread. Sorry, I should have made that clear.

I didn't know there was a whole thread about the kids crying until I found it in a simple search and was just guessing what you were talking about. The thread I first posted on was on election night and didn't start out about the kids. I made two little posts that never showed up on my most-recent list, so I don't know if I got any replies and can't find the thread until the advanced search function is restored.

I agree with you in general on abuse, but you don't know whether Rick Santorum abuses his kids or what he believes about the Puritan era - unless he's talked about it, which would surprise me. You and others are just guessing and assuming. That was a big point of my post this morning.

Do please explain to me, without guessing or assuming, how soon-to-be former Senator Santorum's kid's life is screwed.

[burythehatchet]

66. .

Do please explain to me, without guessing or assuming, how soon-to-be former Senator Santorum's kid's life is screwed.

Rather not.

[neebob]

67. Well, all righty then.

Carry on! :)

[RB TexLa]

63. When did the having family members on stage for this start

no one votes for anyone's children or spouse, there has never been a reason for them to be on the stage.

[Bush_MUST_Go]

64. John John & Caroline Kennedy?

Don't most politicians with youngish kids usually have their families by their side to show people how 'real' they are?

[Neecy]

68. I saw a clip of this again last night...

And I noticed something very odd. When the little girl started to really fall apart, her mother grabbed her shoulders from behind and edged her closer to the podium - perhaps to make sure she got in the camera shot. It certainly wasn't a comforting touch or meant to calm the child. Santorum didn't seem to notice.

I really do think these children were used as props for their father's political advantage. I feel terribly sorry for them because of all of the ignorance and hatred passed down from their father that they'll have to overcome as they become adults.

I hope that people stop mocking these children and start showing some decency and compassion.