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My God, Tennessee, what have you done?

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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:45 PM
Original message
My God, Tennessee, what have you done?
It's a sad thing to wake up on a dreary Wednesday morning, and discover that only 18% of the voting population of your home state (Tennessee in this case), a state you love, believe that gay people fall into that prestigious "all men" of "all men are created equal" fame. Some truths, it would appear, are not always self-evident.

And who am I? Just a straight male, a U.S. Citizen. I have a B.S., a forty hour work week, a house, and a dog. But this affects me. It affects me because one day I might have a child. He/She might be gay. And if they fell, madly, deeply in love, they couldn't marry that person. They wouldn't be able to file jointly, wouldn't be guaranteed the normal rights of a spouse, upon the death of their other half. Of course, in their heart, they could still marry this person. They might still have a ceremony; might still wear a ring. But in the eyes of the law, there would be no bond.

It affects me, because when if I die, and leave an orphan behind, that child may not be adopted, because, though there are wonderful people out there, wanting to adopt him/her, they can't. Why? Because, though they're a couple, they are not allowed to marry, and can't be approved for the adoption singly. So my child might grow up, bouncing from foster home to foster home, when there are people who would and could take him/her in, if not for this amendment.

But beyond how it could affect me, I care, because, as a spiritual person, I have a conviction to do what is right; I care, because, as an American, I have a conviction to allow people their freedoms. The same freedoms I get. Being gay is not a crime. We deny rights to criminals. Now we have denied the rights to UNITED STATES CITIZENS. It's shameful.

Is it right, to be required to know the sex of someone, to know if they are breaking a law? Was it right to say "females can not vote"? How can it be ok to say "females can not marry this person"? And if gay marriages are a threat, what do we outlaw next? Divorce? Interracial marriages? I doubt it will be credit cards, though, as Dave Ramsey is fond of saying, financial problems are a leading cause of divorce.

Martin Luther King Jr. said also, in that famous speech "many of our white brothers, as evidenced by their presence here today, have come to realize that their destiny is tied up with our destiny. And they have come to realize that their freedom is inextricably bound to our freedom." It is your duty, as Americans to hold the government responsible for giving equal rights to all citizens.

It is your duty, as Christians, to refrain from the throwing of stones, and leave the judgments not to our hearts, or the hearts of our government, but to the heart of God. It is your duty, as a human being, to extend equality, and fairness to the extent that we have in our power to do.

What has been done can be undone. This verdict on marriage, turned in by the voters this election is what was expected of us. It was not expected of us, because it is the right thing to do, but because we are the South. Because when Mr. King made his speech, though he was in D.C. it was the South he had to address. It is here, that the toughest battles for racial equality were fought in this nation. I would like to defy those expectations of a backwards South. I would like to stand among the few who are now determined to do what is right, fair, just. There are times when this state has been the dark spot, on the table cloth of this nation, jealous of our rights and freedoms, and fearful of sharing them. Let us be the candle on the table: the beacon in the dark.

This battle is far from over....

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montana500 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's where Nu-Country is made. Enough said. NM
nm
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I know, this is true
Tennessee has a long way to go....
Couldn't even vote for an African American...
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Not so long.
Tennessee was FAR from the only state not to support gay marriage.

And a black man was within 3 percentage points of becoming our next US Senator.

Tell me, where is the black senator from Massachusetts? Or California? Or New York?

That's what I thought...
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
99. But to Massachusetts' credit
they did elect a black governor - only the second ever to be elected.

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
3. We need your help in Massachusetts TODAY and TOMORROW!
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I'll be there in spirit
If any of my words can help you guys up there, feel free....
I'm with you!
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
4. The battle is far from over.
very far. Today I rejoice because we have won a whole bunch that means that we can get on with doing some things about some things, but the battle for humanity is far from over.
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well said
This gay man and his partner are moving from Tekkkessee- can't take the Taliborn anymore.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. LOL
that's so funny (and sad of course if you're serious)...
I can't blame you...
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Well, you only have one state you could move to
because the rest of the country voted to ban it as well.

I guess the Taliban is all over.
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9119495 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. my state did not vote to ban it. Arizona did not either
I wish people weren't so hard on your state, but I wish more than 18% would have opposed the ban. I think if Ford opposed the ban, he would have lost by ten to twelve points--but the measure might have polled nearly 40% and we could go forward from there.

Vermont and New Jersey I think accept gay marriage as well.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. My state is one of the break-through states for Democrats, but
with attitudes like that are being expressed here, we're going to NEVER make in-roads into the South.

We could do if we'd stop putting down states on the brink of change: like Tennessee.

Virginia just barely broke blue last night. Arkansas and Tennessee, with some nuturing, are next.

We have a Dem governor and a Dem-dominated state congress. We WILL break back blue - IF people stop assuming that we're all a bunch of inbred hicks with no sense.

We're not - and 48 percent of us voted for a black man yesterday.

I'll accept that there are three or four states that have not banned gay marriage, if you'll admit that it's NOT what the majority voted for, in states much more "cosmopolitan" than Tennessee.

Do I think it's right? No. I voted against the ban. But I also realize that my state isn't full of idiots, either. They just need some guidance and some ATTENTION from the Democratic Party.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Well said...
And I hope I didn't add to the myth that Tennessee is ALL hicks...because it's not...
Kudos for being positive, i found it hard, but yes, you are right!
We are on the brink...
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Claire Beth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #38
51. You are indeed correct....
There are a lot of progressives here in TN and we have made significant progress. The fact that Ford came so CLOSE to winning is proof. It's not like he lost in a landslide. I"m very proud of Harold Ford, Jr. he hung in there til the end.


:dem:
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Big Sky Boy Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
60. Sorry if I don't share your optimism
The Democratic caucus that was elected yesterday is far more conservative than the members we had in 1996 and 118 House Members voted for DOMA back then.

I am disappointed by the huge swaths of people where the issue was on the ballot who voted for a Democrat AND to ban gay marriage. The black Senatorial candidate from Tennessee (a fine man to be sure) was also clearly opposed to marriage equality.

I understand we are not going to "Win the South" (or anyone else for that matter) by brow-beating or shaming them by drawing attention to the hypocrisy of their proclaimed Christian values and their intense hatred for a particular group of people.

But I am also very disappointed in the lack of leadership in the party. I don't see anyone trying to explain to these people, that Freedom of Religion most definitely means Freedom FROM Religion--and as difficult as it is for them to accept, trying to impose their religious beliefs on another group of people is flat out wrong, regardless of how justified they believe they are. That we are all better off when we respect each other's differences. That it is a noble thing to strive for equal treatment under the law for ALL Americans.

Sebastianj333 understands this and I thank him profusely for his post. Why is it such a hard sell for so many others?
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Brandon82 Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #60
71. gloomy
Its not hard for realists to understand. The outlook for gay rights in America is still gloomy.
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Big Sky Boy Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #71
75. but believe it or not - still a bit optimistic
Just a few short years ago, sodomy was illegal in all 50 states and we suffered a terrible Supreme Court defeat with Bowers v Hardwick in 1986. That decision was reversed in 1994 in what is perhaps the fastest turnaround for a SCOTUS decision ever.

Yes the tallies on the anti-gay measures in the bible belt are dis-heartening, but up north, they are a whole lot closer (51-49) (52-48) which gives me hope that they may actually be reversed in a decade or two. Compared to a lot of other civil rights struggles, that's lightening speed.

I just wish we had more candidates who could speak about equality in simple terms that everyone can understand and who aren't afraid to do so.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #71
101. So, "realist"...
...tell me something I don't know -- like what a "realistic" plan for full equality looks like.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #60
98. Why is it such a hard sell for so many others?
Luckily for some, I'm just not up to getting into it today -- but I'm glad you're asking, BSB.

And: Welcome to DU. :hi:
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9119495 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #38
63. Fair enough.
Besides I feel your pain. I live near Bruce Braley's district. When he cancelled his appearances with Kerry, he was called a DINO, asshole and worse. Kerry is viewed as a disaster in Iowa. We've been Blue for so long in pres. elections--even went for Dukakis--and Kerry ended that streak. Braley is a true progressive that had been called a commie and taliban appeaser by his repub. opponent. His race was thought to be tight so he canceled the Kerry appearance. There were Dems on this board that wanted his horrid right-wing opponent to win "just to teach Braley a lesson." Jeesh, with Dems like that, who fears republicans?

Braley got the seat, and even though he is a progressive, he should be able to keep it for some time.
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Brandon82 Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #38
67. Strategy...
I like to think strategically, but Tennessee is hopeless for progressive candidates except for the 9th district where Cohen was elected.

On the whole, Tennessee can't elect Democrats unless they are the staunch conservative type. Strategically, Tennessee should field the most conservative Democrats available just to maintain House and Senate seats so that the national party leadership at least can control the floor of the House and Senate into the future.

Don't forsee Tennessee voting for a mainstream national Democrat for the Presidency anytime soon, it just won't happen. This state is trending far-right conservative. The urban neighborhoods in Nashville, Memphis, Knoxville, and Chattanooga are too small to make a difference.
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Big Sky Boy Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. Yes but...
If you write it off as neo-con heaven, you'll never win either.

In Texas of all places... We have an openly gay state representative that gets re-elected time after time. Granted he's from Austin and most redneck Texans think they're all crazy down there...

Dallas has a lesbian sherriff. Dems just picked up 51 out of 52 competitive judge positions in Dallas County. And the Dallas democratic party has never been shy about its support for the gay community.

Yes, we're having a hard time making inroads into the conservative rural areas, but I'd rather we did it by being honest than by trying to pretend we are something we are not.

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Brandon82 Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #72
93. I want to be positive...
The thing is, I am being strategic and I'm not writing off Tennessee. What I'm saying is that in order to KEEP Republicans from control is to field candidates that will win states with conservative leanings, such as TN, with candidates that are more conservative than the national average. This will at least give Democrats control so that the national Democrats can at least have the power and steer us in a more progressive direction.

Again, this election was a tell-tale sign of Tennessee's far right turn. You cannot ignore it, you have to work within it. And it means that Tennessee is not winnable by even a moderate national Democrat in a Presidential election. The Republicans will have to field a weak candidate in order for us to ever have a chance for the Presidency.

What I'm trying to convey is that we will have to run more conservative Democrats (in my opinion is bad, but has to be done) just to hold the House and Senate into the future so that Democrats control the floor and the national party's leanings will forward the progressive agenda.

You missed my message, I'll repeat one last time, I haven't "given up" on Tennessee, I have given up on us as a chance to ever elect a progressive representative outside the 9th district, or maybe the 5th.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #67
73. I disagree.
I think if Wes Clark had been the nominee in 2004, Tennessee would have been in play - and I KNOW Arkansas would have.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #38
100. OK, Clark2008...
We've been all over this territory, ad nauseam.

You're a pragmatist, right? What I'd really, really appreciate is hearing a "pragmatic" solution to the lack of LGBT equality in this country.

No telling me it's the wrong time to address the issue (it's the perfect time; we just had a major win, and there are no elections on the horizon -- which is what appears to send some people into a tizzy), and no telling me we have to appease anti-gay religious zealots (that's not an option, as they will never accept us), and no telling me to settle for anything less than full equality (and I don't care if you want to call it marriage, civil unions, or something else entirely).

As my father used to say, don't tell me something won't work unless you have a better idea.

So rather than continuing to put a damper on our struggle for equal rights, what is your solution for helping us attain those rights?

I appreciate you voting against the marriage ban in your own state -- but that is the very least I would expect of any Democrat. Voting is a wonderful thing, but it does not begin to address the back-of-the-bus issue.

So fill me in. Tell me what you think we should do -- as opposed to telling what you think we shouldn't do.
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SouthernBelle82 Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
53. So you're going to
give up and run away to California or Massachusetts's? Why not stay here with the rest of us and fight? If you want to change it you have to get out and talk to people and help them change their minds. Running away is not the answer. If you have other reason's to leave than that's understandable but if you're just giving up and running away that's no different than after 2004 when people were saying they were moving because Kerry "lost."
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #53
95. 18%...
Edited on Wed Nov-08-06 07:04 PM by Pithlet
Sorry, but I don't blame him. That percentage is abysmal. I don't think we necessarily need to completely give up on Tennessee on all matters political. But, as far as equal rights for all, I'm ashamed and embarrassed by the state I live in. I think it would be brave and noble to stay and fight, but I also understand the "screw the lot of you, I'm leaving", too. If 82% of the voters in the state I lived in would refuse me the right to marry the person I love, I think I'd be inclined to hit the road, too. I fully expected the amendment to pass, but even I was shocked by how overwhelming it was.
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dunn Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #95
125. I had no strong opinion on this, so I did not vote either yes or no.
I wonder how many of us there was.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #53
106. I seem to recall...
some false optimism about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
8. Your post is one of the most heartening things
Edited on Wed Nov-08-06 01:55 PM by ThomCat
I've read all day. I'm very glad to read that you notice, you care and you're on our side!

:hug:

Welcome to DU!
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Thank you! It's a pleasure
I used to be on all the time as MAKEANOISE, but went away for awhile...

Now today, I have to stand with you all and say:


YEAH BABY! WELL DONE!
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I second that.
K/R
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tpsbmam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
10. Beautifully said. K&R (n/t)
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Lancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. Just a beautiful post. Thank you. n/t
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WhollyHeretic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. Terrific Post
Welcome to DU!! :toast: :hi:
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you, thank you all...
I'm happy to be here!
Can't wait to see the new HATE MAIL DU is bound to get in the coming days!
LOL
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
15. it is "WE," the people -- not "US" the people and "Them" the enemy
they USE sexual FEAR to advance their interests. what do we usually call people who employ those tactics? bullies? terrorists?

they don't see "The We..." they attack "The We..." they are destroying the commonweal.

we have to put an end to the politics of division.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Well Said!
I concur!
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Rob H. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
17. Like I said in another thread...
Personally, I think the anti-gay marriage amendment was put on the ballot here in TN to get out the conservative fundagelical vote.

All I could think about it when I went to the polls was,"Let's see: a war in Iraq, a gigantic federal deficit, poverty, hunger, homelessness, 45 million Americans without health care, AND THIS IS THE STUPID BULLSHIT WE'RE WORRYING ABOUT?!?"

I'm proud to say that I was one of the 49,075 people in Shelby County (where Memphis is located, for those of you outside Tennessee) who voted against it.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Of course it was, gay marriage was banned in Tennessee in 1996.
Why did they have it on the ballot AGAIN?

:shrug:
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I asked myself that same question....
I guess they knew it would bring lots of REPUKES out to vote, so maybe that's what it was...
Good question...
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. So we should expect a "we really mean it this time!" referendum
on the issue in 2008?
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Glad to know you Rob, and thanks!
I know there are some DEMOCRATS who probably oppose it as well, and I try to respect everyone's opinions on the subject, but i do believe it is disrimination...


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Rob H. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #21
85. You're more than welcome!
And by the way, welcome to DU! :) :hi:
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schrodinger_I Donating Member (683 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. So was I
Via a military absentee ballot.
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SouthernBelle82 Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
54. Bingo
That's all it was about. The amendment was written in a weird language and that's my belief too. *sigh* I was one of the 19% here in Hamilton county and was proud to vote against that crap.
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Courtesy Flush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. Correction on the adoption part
In my state, gays are allowed to adopt. Unmarried gay couples can adopt, but unmarried straight couples can't. Pretty progressive for a red state.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Really? Ok well maybe 'Technically" they can...
but I would be interested to know how often that really happens in a RED STATE...
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foxeyes2 Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Seb thank you
As a gay Tennessean I knew that the yes votes would win but I am disheartened by the numbers we lost by.
But I am encouraged because I know that we had straight folks on our side. How can I say thank you for that?
Yesterday while I was standing in line at Cora Howe (2 hour wait) there were a couple of african american men talking about how they were going to vote for the ban. A woman next to them with 3-4 kids spoke up for equality. I flashed her a thumbs up when she was done. I am discouraged and tired but I do realize that my worth is not determined by the electorate of this state, it is by fiat and I am the only vote that matters. I can without hesitation say that 82% of my fellow citizens are wrong, dead wrong on this issue. Perhaps one day they will understand and if they do it will be due in part to people like Sebastian who stand for truth. So again thank you far more than my mere words can ever express.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #31
43. You are welcome, and I'm sorry how it went...but
We have only yet begun to reach out, it may take a while, but i do believe, in time, this will change...thanks for the kind words!

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Big Sky Boy Donating Member (111 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #31
69. Here. Here.
We went throught the same thing here in Texas last year.

75% of the electorate turned out to grant themselves special rights and deny them to me and my partner.

Hurt like hell.

I am comforted by the fact that there are straight people on our side, but not enough to feel all that optimistic about seeing these repulsive amendments lifted any time soon.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #24
58. I have no red state experience, but my niece legally adopted...
her partner's daughter.

I wish they could marry. It'd be better for everyone.
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RedStateShame Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm just a state above you, brother. We Kentuckians have some work to do, too,
...but it can be done.

And, Welcome to DU.
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IWantAChange Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
27. Great post - sorry that racial prejudice also cost us Harold Ford
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foxeyes2 Donating Member (123 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. Ford not all racial
I didn't vote for Ford, not because he is black but because he is so anti-gay. Why should I as a gay man vote for my opressor? If I vote for the lesser evil it is still evil. If he can support full equality for me, a fellow Tennessean than I can not profane my sacred vote by casting it for him. No I did not vote for Corker but an independent candidate who I know is supportive of gay rights. Great thing about that is that when I got up this morning I was able to look at myself in the mirror without any shame.
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Rob H. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #34
87. The independent candidate...
Was it by any chance Jim Maynard? He was offering himself as a write-in candidate, but I don't know if that many people were aware of his candidacy. He's a good guy--I know him through a friend of mine. (His blog is here should anyone want to check it out.)

And welcome to DU! :hi:
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Brandon82 Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
94. agreed
I held my nose when I voted for Ford. I didn't admire his conservative streak at all, and it was just to field a candidate so the national party has the power to push its progressive agenda.
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IWantAChange Donating Member (974 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #34
121. Thoughtful reply - thanks .... point I was
making, obviously not too well, was that with his 'positions' in what I assumed was an anti-gay state the racial overtones of a black man being senator outweighed that core Repug stance.
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Strabo Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #34
124. agreed
I am not gay, but I did not vote for Ford for the same reason. 1.8 million people voted from a population of 5.7 million. What do you want to bet that Ford could have pulled another 50K votes if he'd gone the route of claiming to be an "I don't think that Government Bureaucrats should be in your bedroom or doctor's office telling you what you can and can't do" social libertarian? I mean, he's already fairly pro-choice, and to my knowledge that didn't even come up in the course of the campaign! Gay, it's the new Black.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
28. Still waiting for the King's "one day"
From MLK's famous speech in 1963...
---

"Go back to Mississippi, go back to Alabama, go back to South Carolina go back to Georgia, go back to Louisiana, go back to the slums and ghettos of our modern cities, knowing that somehow this situation can and will be changed.

"Let us not wallow in the valley of despair. I say to you today, my friends, that even though we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow. I still have a dream. It is a dream deeply rooted in the American dream.

"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed. We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal.

"I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.

"I have a dream that one day even the state of Mississippi, a state sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.

"I have a dream today.

"I have a dream that one day down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; that one day right down in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers.

"I have a dream today.

"I have a dream that one day every valley shall be exalted, and every hill and every mountain shall be made low, the rough places will be made plains and the crooked places will be made straight and the glory of the Lord shall be revealed and all flesh shall see it together.

"This is our hope. This is the faith that I will go back to the South with. With this faith we will be able to hew out of the mountain of despair a stone of hope.

"With this faith we will be able to transform the jangling discords of our nation into a beautiful symphony of brotherhood.

"With this faith we will be able to work together, to pray together, to struggle together, to go to jail together, to climb up for freedom together, knowing that we will be free one day."

---
That day has not yet dawned, but perhaps it is not far away.
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
30. If you'll excuse me for making a "me too" post...
you're bang on with that post.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us.
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swimmernsecretsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
32. Thank you.
Thank you for writing it, for expressing it. I can't think of anything else I can say, except that your words mean more to me today than many I've heard in a long while. We've had a great last few days, and this puts meaning behind the victories we've shared. Everything I want to tell you, I can only say with what I've said before: thank you.
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codjh9 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
35. Another straight but open-minded male who couldn't agree more
The never-ending gay hate and the bullshit about gay marriage 'corrupting the institution of marriage' will never cease to amaze me. Buffoons!
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4_TN_TITANS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
36. Trust me, we're very much ashamed
of all the damn holier than thou hypocrites in this state.

Sorry, DU....
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southernleftylady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
37. I voted for Ford and stood outside all freaking day... in the nasty weather..
Edited on Wed Nov-08-06 03:10 PM by southernleftylady
and i told EVERYONE to vote.. and i gave out voter registration forms...
i tried my best :(
and told EVERYONE to vote NO on No.1
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. So did I, but it is the SOUTH!
and because of people like us in other parts of the country, who stood in lines for long periods we are having the kind of day we deserve!

And you voted too, which is the most important thing...
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southernleftylady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
42. I HATE THE SOUTH.. and I'm freaking from here but i still cant stand it!
the ignorance is just mind numbing
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SouthernBelle82 Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #42
56. I know what you mean
While I love living in the south I just hate the ignorance as well. That's the only bad thing. And the liberals get defeated in the primary's. We had a great democratic candidate for congress who lost in the primary to a more conservative guy.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
104. Me three (or four, or whatever.)
I'm a proud southerner, but I am the first to say we have a pervasive problem with education and -i don't how I want to say this exactly-- people here just seem to do the bullshit thing waaaaayy to well.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
112. I second that.
The south has so many truly beautiful spots with such splendid scenery and such charm only to have it dampened by the ignorance that continues to elect right wing neanderthals time and again. You are right. The ignorance, will ignorance at that, is just mind numbing.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
41. The South has always been a battleground for people's freedom.....
and civil rights; someday ALL people will have the same rights, THEY just have to keep on fighting the ignorance of religious fundamentalism. Someday THEY too will win.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. RIGHT ON!
thanks!
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spancks Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
44. Thank you so much for that OP...
it's is refreshing to see that there is at least one DUer who doesn't think we belong at the back of the bus, and who recognizes that we all share the same fate when basic civil rights are denied to anyone.

Thank you!!!
:applause:
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BluRay01 Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
46. Thank you for this
The discrimination against same-sex marriages was one of a very few dark spots on an otherwise wonderful day. But you're right--it can be undone. I just wish that more people shared your views. Thanks for a very beautifully phrased post.
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cwydro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
47. good post
:kick:
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ninkasi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
48. Very good post
I live in Texas, not Tennessee, but there are bigots everywhere. I believe the need some have of making their hatred the law is a very cruel thing. Straight or gay, black, white, or any shade in between, man or woman, or bisexual or transgender, we are all humans, we are all people with feelings, and hopes, and dreams. We should all be equal under the law. Welcome to DU.:hi:
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
49. Beautiful post!
Thanks for sharing those heartfelt words. It's so true that we must think of others (and our society as a whole) when we vote, and you have beautifully explained WHY.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
50. welcome to DU
Edited on Wed Nov-08-06 03:35 PM by themartyred
sadly, what you say is not a shock, so many TENN voters being racist & homophobic, that is makes me have nothing but ill will towards TENN having any say in our country... to see nearly 6/7 voters say gay marriage is wrong is very unjust and uncaring.


Thank you for your kind words, young man.

WELCOME TO DU! :hi:



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts
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SouthernBelle82 Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
52. It is really sad and
I was a part of the 18-19% of those who voted against it. I know I can separate my personal beliefs with what is right for my country.
I'm also disappointed that my mother voted for it. :( She voted democratic in everything else. But hey keep this in mind too that it can always change. It wasn't necessarily banning same-sex marriage it was just defening marriage between a man and woman so it's not banned or anything from the wording of the amendment from yesterday but either way it's still disgusting and sad. But keep in mind that interracial marriage was the same way and now that's legal so keep the faith please! There were other states who had this as well and only Arizona voted it down.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #52
76. okay okay...
it can change... and hopefully it will before we all pass on.

such hatred. people just mock or hate what they've never seen (as a whole) and that's sad.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
55. Why can't Civil Unions....
then at least be afforded the same rights as marriage?
Maybe that's where we can start....
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SouthernBelle82 Donating Member (879 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Perhaps
I have heard and talked to even some conservative Christian's who are for civil union's. I used to be that way as well but than someone talked about how it would be nothing but separate but same like with black people and their whole ordeal before the civil rights act.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Yeah, good point
it's still dancing around the issue somewhat...
but as with the Civil Rights movement it did go in stages...
And obviously most Americans need to apparently go in stages on this issue or they may have a heart attack...
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
61. Kick and recommended again!
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
62. Kick and recommended again!
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Brandon82 Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
64. Tennessee is an embarassment
Edited on Wed Nov-08-06 04:08 PM by Brandon82
I think some of you are missing the point. Tennessee voted against the amendment by only 18% of the vote. States like Virginia, even if they approved it, was much closer. I think Virginia voted 43% against the gay marriage amendment. That's over double the support against an amendment, even though it passed.

Tennessee, my home state, appears to be an extremist stronghold by far beyond the national average.

Its an embarrassment. And Ford "nearly winning" doesn't prove anything. Ford was unbashedly one of the most conservative Democrats to run, he doesn't show a progressive edge for our state at all. While I supported Ford, encouraged friends and family to vote for him, and I voted for him myself (obviously), I do not think his near-win shows any progressive side to this state. He had to run on an evangelical platform using references to God every day, he had to emphasize Bush is his friend, and he had to emphasize that he is a conservative Democrat to get a near-win, and it still wasn't enough.

Again, Tennessee should be ashamed. Ford should have been a shoo-in based on his stances for this conservative state, and it wasn't the case.

The marriage amendment is just salt in the wounds.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #64
107. Only if you expected something more out of them.
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drone Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #64
113. It is the hill billy's fault
The problem is east Tennessee
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SCantiGOP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
65. time heals all wounds
The under 25 crowd are overwhelmingly in favor of full rights for gays. They are the first generation where friends felt comfortable coming out. It might take a decade or two, but opposition to gay unions will one day look as archaic as opposing inter-racial relationships. I realize this is very little consolation for those currently facing this type of discrimination, but the next generation will correct the problem.
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Brandon82 Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. not true in tennessee
If you read the exit polls:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2006//pages/results/states/TN/I/01/epolls.0.html

In Tennessee, the 18-29 aged group voted against the amendment by only 23%

The other categories were about 19%. Not enough difference, and doesn't show any promise for the future when these young anti-gay voters continue voting anti-gay. Don't see equal rights in Tennessee happening within my lifetime unless its a federal policy.
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caseycoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #65
86. Over 25's in favor too!
I'm a 64 y/o straight married female & I have always been disgusted at the way the majority of folks in this country can be so adamantly against giving a whole segment of society equal rights! Many here in the South are still not giving equal rights to blacks! Do you think Latino citizens have equal rights? Only the minimum mandated by law in many cases. And now the furor over gay marriages. WHY? Oh yeah... they want to "preserve the sanctity of marriage". Well gee... over 50% of new marriages now end in divorce. How 'sanct' is that? :sarcasm: GAY MARRIAGE? Hmmm now just what problems would that cause in my life? NONE!
I believe that everyone has a right to their opinions, but no one has the right to force them on others.
Well, I'm sorry to ramble.
The first post in this thread is the most eloquent & well stated argument I've ever heard in favor of something that, IMHO, shouldn't ever have been in question. Gay marriage. May it happen soon for all of you in every state.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #65
102. My only hope at this point...
...is for the generations of gay Americans to come. You are spot-on that "this is very little consolation for those currently facing this type of discrimination" -- one generation from now, I will be 65 years old. Two generations from now, I will be dead.

And people flame me for making plans to leave the U.S.? How can they even question why?
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
66. Damn right the battle isn't over.
It's just beginning.

While I was delighted with the results last night, I was depressed because 6 states, in addition to the 27 already, have voted for bigotry. Why? Because we uppity gay and lesbian folk refuse to be treated as second class citizens. Because we simply want to have our loving relationships legally recognized. That's all.

But I'm tired of moping about it. I'm more than ever ready to fight.

Thank you for an inspiring, energizing post.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #66
70. and the battle continues....
Let's now show the American people what leadership is all about!
I think they may have forgotten...
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LeftCoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
74. Kicking so others have the opportunity to read this!
:kick:
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #74
77. Thanks....I forgot to recommend it!
My bad. :blush:

This is a tremendous post. Wish we'd seen something like this in 2004...
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. Sorry, back in 2004 I was toooooo scared to get on....
Thanks to the Repukes FEAR mongerings, LOL

Joke, but anyway better late then never, glad I could connect with you...
Again, I'm just soooo happy today, a good day...
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terrya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. I have some unfortunate memories from 2004 here.
But you've helped to erase those. And to inspire and to get some people thinking. And I thank you for that.

:thumbsup:
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Thanks, that's what DU should be about...
Inspiring each other, it's time for DU and all of us to RISE...
Someone tell the President, "Hey George, TOUCHDOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!"
:)
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
81. Standing shoulder to shoulder with you and our LGBT brothers & sisters
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swimboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
82. Second-class citizen of the Commonwealth of Virginia reporting, sir.
:cry:

K&R
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
83. Thank you so much for this.
I've give almost anything if everyone felt this way -- and would say so.

That was beautiful.
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bullwinkle428 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
84. I completely agree. I have to admit, I felt heartsick when I saw the
huge margins of defeat for the various propositions relating to gay marriage in some of the states. It proves that it still remains a long, uphill battle, but one that needs to be fought everyday and discussed constantly...people need to realize this is a human rights issue!
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PegDAC Donating Member (906 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
88. No good news from South Carolina, either.
None whatsoever. The gay marriage ban passed 80%/20%.
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brer cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
89. Where have you been? We need your eloquent voice more often.
I'm a straight, 60-year old female from the very red state just below you, and agree 100% with your post. I will NEVER give up hope that during my lifetime all Americans will have equality. I confess that these past dark years, I have focused more energy on getting dems elected than gay rights, but that can now change. Priority #1, protecting our vote so that 2000 and 2004 can never happen again, Priority #2, equal rights period. amen. all Americans.

When DU is back to normal, I want to take part of your post for a new sig line....and I will give credit where credit is due:

Let us be the candle on the table: the beacon in the dark. This battle is far from over....DUer sebastianj333

I salute for you for one of the best posts of all times!


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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #89
120. Well thank you!
I appreciate your kind words and it's my pleasure to be here with all the fine DU'ers!
:)
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Daneel Donating Member (14 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
90. where I come from we take equal rights for everybody for granted
what you write touches me, I feel with you all!
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hyde Donating Member (90 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. great post
it's hard to watch people go to the polls every election and vote to deny you your rights, but it helps to have people from all areas of American life give you support.
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VeggieTart Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
92. My heart goes out to you and all my gay brothers and sisters
I would ask those in favor of a ban on same-sex marriage how affording two men or two women the rights of married couples threatens their marriage. I would ask if they feel threatened by someone else's happiness. I would ask if they don't think divorce isn't a greater threat, if being able to get married on a whim and have it nullified two days later isn't a mockery of the sanctity of marriage, if men who hop from marriage to marriage isn't a greater threat to the institution. And you know what, I know that if gay and lesbian couples were allowed to marry, some of those marriages would eventually fail. But I don't think it would fail at a vastly different rate than "traditional" marriages either.

And as for the argument that the purpose of marriage is to raise a family, I can assure you that plenty of heterosexual married couples remain childless for one reason or another and plenty of gay couples would love to either adopt or a lesbian couple will go through artificial insemination to have a child. Should infertile couples be barred from marrying? Should postmenopausal women not be allowed to marry? Should people who have no desire to have children be prevented from marrying?

Love is what makes a family. The people who fume the loudest about the "sanctity of marriage" are probably the biggest threat to it.
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. Nice post.
:hug:
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ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
97. Beautiful!!
Count me in! :toast:
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
103. Thank you! /nt
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
105. Good post, and Welcome! n/t
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
108. Very well said. As someone who has lived in Tennessee, I know exactly
what you're talking about.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
109. Great post! k&r/nt
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
110. I have a friend living in Wisconsin...
Where a gay marriage bill was on the docket. She told me that while she was waiting to vote, a guy in front of her was talking about 'fucking f***ots having the same rights as us NORMAL people,' and he was being really loud, and getting the other people in the crowd gung ho about homophobia. She was so mad she could cry, she said.
No kidding.
Amazing the lengths that people will go to, in order to wallow in their hate.
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Jamastiene Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
111. I wish I could post a sound file of a loud standing ovation.
I clap for you anyhow though. That was a well written post. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

And btw, let me extend a hearty welcome to DU. :pals:
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emlev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
114. Thank you. Very. Much.
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-08-06 11:33 PM
Response to Original message
115. I stand with the Homos.
Dear Gay People:

I wasn't thrilled about gay marriage. Why, I wondered, did you all want in on a thing which was rapidly sinking? An institution which is all but ruined/gutted/fallen-out-of-use/useless? And who cheapened this institution of marriage? It wasn't you--it was us. It was us, the people who always had the marriage option: we have torn it to bits by getting married without thinking it through, and as a result, we often get divorced at the drop of a hat. End result: marriage means little or nothing nowadays, it seems.

Me, I'm still married, though. And it's the only marriage I've had, and it works. So I guess marriage CAN be useful for someone who really wants it.

And if YOU, gay people, really want it, you got it. I give it to you--as well as to us straight people. I want you in on it.

The majority of you gay people have been far more of a friend to liberty and decency in this country than have many, many straight or closeted/self-hating people who call themselves Americans--especially among republicans. And it is YOU I want standing by my side, not them.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
116. amen
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njbuddy Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
117. Excellent post! n/t
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The Brethren Donating Member (853 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
118. You put a smile on my face
I very much appreciate the thought and concern you have put into this issue especially coming from a straight person. There are many straight people like yourself who do care and want to stop the bigotry. However, there are too many who either support discrimination against gay people on any issue as well as many others who take the stand "it's not my problem." And yet yesterday it clearly took thousands upon thousands of straight people across the nation who voted to ban gay people from even attempting to gain legal marriage.

Your post couldn't have come a better time - I was just thinking about the returns from yesterday and have mixed feelings. One hand I am so excited for the democratic victories, and yet with the exception of AZ, across the board, the majority of voters banned legal gay marriage. I am not only angry about it, I'm outraged. I must admit I honestly wouldn't have except such support and insight on this issue coming from a straight living in Tennessee where it seems so conservative. Thank you again. :)

And to make matters worse, my own state of CO not only passed a ban on gay marriage, it also voted down a referendum to support domestic partnerships. So as of yesterday, according to the majority of voters in CO if you are gay you are a second class citizen who doesn't even deserve just some of the legal benefits afforded to straight couples. And it also made it clear that couples like my partner and I legally don't matter. Then to see the same discrimination else where, such as with Tennessee, on a day when we made history as dems - and the voters showed that they want a change and to make things better is infuriating to put it mildly. And when I think about it, it is hard not to be angry at all straight people and all straight married couples who are entitled to be legally married ...or even just to have that option. But then I have to remind myself that not all straight think this way and not all of them supported bigoted legislation that didn't just turn down gay marriage...it banned us from even trying....and that many straight people voted against it as well.

I know they wouldn't even dare put legislation on any ballot in any state that would try to ban rights to someone because they are black or Jewish, etc But thousands of voters thought nothing of openly discriminating against people. Your post and your determination helped a lot....I hope more straight people learn from it.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
119. Beautiful post sebastianj
Unfortunately we still live in a nation where people have no compunction about using their personal religious beliefs to rule other peoples' lives, while they'd be up in arms if other people tried to infringe on their right to practice their religion. Furthermore, the average person sees no problem with laws based on Chrisianity but would rend their clothes if anybody dared suggest they live under a law based on any other religion.

Separation of Church and State simply must be made a priority for the good of all.
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specimenfred1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
122. Same bigoted crap here in VA
where non-gay people who live together are also targeted. Sixty percent voted the bigot line, a disgraceful display of bigoted psychopathy.

Unfortunately, the only way to change a repuke's mind is to make them suffer personally. That means calling the police and the county if repuke's of any persuasion are living together.

If it's a fascist state they want, it's what they'll get.
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sebastianj333 Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #122
123. I know, VA is my homestate!
But on the bright side, WEBB is the man!
Thanks VA, for almost everything, LOL
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