Folks, Gates replacing Rumsfeld is a HUGE burn for Rumsfeld

[WilliamPitt]

Rummy does not like the CIA, in a bureaucracy v. bureaucracy kind of way. After 9/11, the Pentagon had no war plan for Afghanistan ready to go, but the CIA did, and Rumsfeld had to watch that agency (run by Tenet, whom he despised) take over the "War on Terror."

One of the reasons Rumsfeld was so hopped up to attack Iraq was so he could get the "War on Terror" back into the Pentagon and out of CIA. Seriously. Go find the Frontline episode on Rumsfeld, Tenet and Cheney, called "The Dark Side" I believe.

Now he has been replaced by a CIA lifer.

Huge burn.

[Shakespeare]

1. It's also a huge burn for Cheney.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the west wing for the next few days.

[jannyk]

6. Yes, tweety just made that point

Cheney wanted Rumsfeld to stay or another ideologue to replce but Bush went with Baker's (Daddy's) choice. Has Cheney been castrated!!!???

[aquart]

21. I don't want a "burn." I want a heaping pile of ashes.

[mike_c]

2. this has Poppy's fingerprints all over it....

eom

[liberalla]

59. Yep! Tweety was recounting how Poppy and friends

have stepped in and rescued baby bush from his earlier failures. There is a pattern here. Time after time. He needs the help, but he sure resents it.

Junior doesn't like it when Poppy is right.

[maddezmom]

3. is this the one?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/

[WilliamPitt]

4. Yup

Watch it.

[Doctor_J]

9. Too scary

made it about 3/4 through one time,couldn't sleep for a week.

[jobycom]

5. Yeah, I feel so sorry for him.

:rofl:

Actually, I just feel sorry that he's not on trial for treason and war crimes.

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

41. That isn't out of the question

There will be investigations.

[Nothing Without Hope]

46. ....YET. n/t

[mom cat]

47. That might come sooner than you think!

I hope!

[TahitiNut]

7. The Army Times editorial was the sound of the coffin being nailed shut.

There's no question in my feeble, little mind that the Army (& Navy & etc.) Times' editorial was published with an insider go-ahead ... that the handwriting was on the wall of the administration's outhouse the Rummy was a goner.

It's nothing but an ablative - shedding Rummy to take the heat off.

[LSK]

8. yep, State of Denial mentions this too

[democrank]

10. Am I remembering correctly?

Wasn`t Gates involved in Iran-Contra?

[Lars39]

11. Yes....Solly Mack's thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2639900&mesg_id=2639900

[KoKo]

38. Manucher Ghorbanifar is all you need to know about Gates and

Ghorbanifar's name comes up once again in the lead up to Iraq Invasion and meeting with Michael Ledeen...possible ties to Niger Forgeries and an involvement with Chalabi and Iran.

Look for that Iran action to be on the plate next year if Gates is confirmed. We have to hope our Dems will block this confirmation, if they have the chance, because Gates is part of what needs to be "cleaned out" if we are to avoid more hell like we've been through the last decades with these Bush Criminals.

[aquart]

48. And you think invading Iran will be popular here in the states?

Can't wait to see what we invade with.

I'm sure Gates has wonderful plans for world domination. What's he gonna dominate WITH?

[AntiFascist]

51. Also, I don't buy into the wise Bush I vs. bratty Bush II controversy...

Bush I became a neocon when he announced his New World Order.

[KoKo]

55. Are you two agreeing with me or disagreeing? I wasn't sure...n/t

[bigtree]

12. Cambone still #2 at Defense?

This isn't change, it's window dressing.

I'm not at all satisfied for Bush to choose his 'sacrifices'. Our leaders need to demand action beyond what Bush intends to relinquish and not be mesmerized by the musical deck chairs.



http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree

[catmandu57]

13. Darth, then bolton, then rice

then dead eye kick the lower rungs out first then watch the collapse.

[never cry wolf]

14. Will, you have CIA sources

At least ex-CIA such as Larry Johnson, Ray McGovern et al. I'd love to hear their take on Gates and this appointment. I don't think the cabal would trust the post, as well as access to evidence of where all the bodies are buried and all the corruption to anyone they wouldn't trust.

Is this guy a straight shooter?

[bunny planet]

33. Of course he isn't, they never appoint straight shooters.

Seems like Big Jim Baker, the lawyer for the Saudi Royal Family is now calling the shots in Iraq.
While I'm glad to see Rumsfeld go, Baker being involved with anything is not comforting.
Greg Palast's book 'Armed Madhouse' had a lot to say about the secret war between the Neo-Cons and the Baker Boys. Neither is up to any good.

[EFerrari]

15. Did BushCo just fired the Cheney/Rumsfeld junta?

A signal to the purseholders, maybe.

[Turn CO Blue]

31. Yep. That's it.

[Turn CO Blue]

32. Yep. That's it.

[mdmc]

16. what is goin on?

Didn't know rummy was really out...

[Phillycat]

23. Just out of the sensory deprivation chamber?

:D

[mdmc]

25. just moved, no internet, just got done with 48 hours of GOTV

what is going ON? :hi:

[Phillycat]

36. LOL!

House OURS, Senate ALMOST OURS (just waiting for VA and Webb is ahead), and Rummy FIRED. It's a freakin' holiday, basically. :D :bounce:

[Efilroft Sul]

17. Gates is another horrible replacement.

But what do we expect?

Gates was William Casey's main boy during the lobotomized one's tenure at CIA during the Reagan administration. When Casey didn't like the estimates worked upon by analysts, he sent Gates in to bark at the analysts and rip off their heads. The analysts at CIA were terrified of Gates and they hated his guts. Like the Downing Street Memos, Gates would wrap the "facts" around the policy to further promote Casey and Reagan's vision.

When the Director's position was vacated in 1991, Bush 41 nominated Gates. The analysts at CIA went bonkers, and rightfully so. One by the name of Jennifer Glaudemans (I believe I spelled her name correctly) even testified against Gates before the Senate. Nonetheless, her testimony was largely dismissed, and Gates ran CIA into the ground until Bill Clinton took power.

Robert Gates. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

[Jcrowley]

18. Not really

This is just a shift of faces & personalities, not a shift of anything meaningful. Gates was very close to William Casey -- as big a liar and criminal as anyone in US ruling circles. Together, they did a makeover of the CIA, throwing out analysts who didn't politicize "intelligence" according to their preconceived preferences.

[Tatiana]

19. Agreed. Also a huge burn for "F-you" Cheney, as well. n/t

[Window]

20. Yup, time for Dick to spend more time with Lynn and Mary.

.

[BurtWorm]

22. It will be very interesting to read the history of this portion of the Bush era.

Who's calling the shots now? It doesn't seem to be Cheney.

PS: It goes without saying it isn't Jr.

[napi21]

30. I think it's Poppy. Both Shrub and the Dems said they are waiting

for the proposal from the Baker Comission for a solution to Iraq, and Gates is part of this commission. They are all biddies with Brent Skocroft, and all of them are close GH Bush's friends. I even heard one of the talking heads today say this has GHB's fingerprints all over it. Maybe W has recognized that Daddy knows best.

[elehhhhna]

43. People in the know suggest the Poppy is somewhat ga-ga these days.

Isn't he about 120 years old?

I think it's Bandar. He IS GW's bestest closest confidant and International Policy mentor, remember? Plus he was smart enough to get out of town at least a year ago.

[Blackhatjack]

24. Is this not a repudiation of the NeoCon Game Plan for the Middle East??

It sure looks like 41 and his team are taking over the handling of this war, and they are not listening to the NeoCons desire for more conquest.

This must be making Cheney crazy.

[roamer65]

26. Baker is getting his way right now...

This is an intervention by Daddy Bush and Jim Baker right now. They're trying to save the Bush Crime Family name.

[LonelyLRLiberal]

27. Any chance with this slap-down by Bush that Cheney will resign?

("health reasons"?)

Cheney was informed by Bush in the news conference that Bush is making the decisions - which I took to mean Bush decided Rumsfeld had to go and was going to be replaced with a philosophical opponent from the Bush I Regime.

[BuyingThyme]

28. I don't think so. It's just politically prudent.

If they replace Rumsfeld with a Rumsfeld guy, the Dems can still go after Rumsfeld.

By replacing Rumsfeld with a know-nothing, they're free to stay the course.

[Turn CO Blue]

29. What it means is that the neo-cons are dead...

out with the idealogues and war-mongers -- in with the pragmatists.

Bush II did this to change the lede and prove that he is not going to be a lame-duck for the next two whole years. He effectively told Cheney to stuff it.

My suspicion though is that Bush I and his group are now pulling all the stings.




edit for grammar: doh!

[gordianot]

35. Yes replaced by a pragmatic criminal, Poppy Bush is in charge again.

One more time Junior has screwed up and needs to be bailed out.

[ArmchairMeme]

52. Bush Sr.

I agree Bush Jr. is being enabled by Bush Sr.

[malaise]

34. Is there a connection to the anger re

The Vanity Fair neo-con criticism of Bushco

[Dover]

37. The Bushco regime simply rotates out anyone who catches too much heat.

Maybe someone has made a list of all the players who have gotten rotated out. Gone but not really "out", and certainly never prosecuted. Unscathed. Rolling stones gather no legal moss...
They have 10 more for every one that is replaced. And being out of sight does not guarantee that their influence is not still formidable. Perle, Ashcroft, etc...all still very much in the game.

[BuyingThyme]

40. Exactly.

(Less Ashcroft, in my opinion.)

[Cha]

39. Could it happen to a more

arrogant POS except the chimp or the dick?

[emulatorloo]

42. kick n/t

[schrodingers_cat]

44. Just think about the troops, though, in all this

As I went to bed last night, my last thought was of how happy our troops will be with this democratic landslide. And now, oh, I just hope deeply in my heart that they too, are feeling some tiny relighting of the flames of hope in their hearts, because now, they have some folks that will fight for them. I hope that Rumsfeld's departure puts a smile on every one of their tired, hot faces.

[lonestarnot]

45. Two more killed announced today from AZ.

:cry:

[devilgrrl]

49. Gates isn't exactly a improvement - in fact, he's probably WORSE!!!!

Forgive me for not celebrating.

[Jacobin]

56. Nothing is worse than a neo con. Nothing at all

Gates is a paleocon.

I see glimmers of hope in getting out.

[Jacobin]

50. Poppy has displaced Cheney as the puppet master

That's what this is all about. Poppy's old henchmen are coming in to clean up yet another Shrub clusterfuck.

And that's probably the best option we have out there.

[Metta]

53. Gates is tarred with Iran-Contra. See enclosed link.

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_16.htm :thumbsup: :donut: :donut:

[The Backlash Cometh]

54. Sometimes I fear Evil Thing One, more than I fear Evil Thing Two.

If only we can get rid of the evil twin that exists in each one of our agencies.

[symbolman]

57. I think W is cutting the strings that run him

and a Puppet should never do that.. I get the feeling he's distancing himself from Cheney AND Rove and that is going to prove to be his downfall. Despite Rove being a dick and non genius at this juncture without him Bush is doomed.

If Bush becomes a Free Range chicken, he'll be scooped up by foxes in no time, and let's hope the foxes are the Newly Minted Left wing core..

Curiouser and curiouser :)

[Jacobin]

60. Poppy is running him now

Cheney and Rumsfailed are now irrelevant.

Its all about getting our asses out of Iraq.

[Sabien]

58. Frontline

I think the episode you mention is called "Rumsfeld's War" - "The Dark Side" is about Darth Dick Cheney