STOP, LOOK, and LISTEN: I just posted this on Free Republic.

[lander]

Full disclosure, I'm a democrat, so get over it. I'm not here to insult you, and I'm certainly not here to gloat. I'm not here to trade barbs, undermine Free Republic, or infiltrate your ranks. I'll be honest — I disagree with most FReepers on almost every issue.

So, why am I posting a new thread?

Because I — we — need you. We at Democratic Underground and Daily Kos, and all of the lefty blogs you love to hate, and who love to hate you. We need you to acknowledge that if there's one thing we're learning about our country's political system, it's that there's way too much corruption. Too much greed. Cronyism. Lying. It's on both sides, folks — I'm no apologist.

Yes, the Democrats won. Yes, we're very happy about that. It means we get to put the emergency brake on what we see as runaway irresponsibility in our government. Some of you FReepers see it, too — the Bush administration is spending like Paris Hilton on a bender and Harry Reid is spending his afternoons thinking about how to double his real estate money instead of how to lead his majority. Result? America's losing its ethical center.

Indulge me for a moment: we at Daily Kos and Democratic Underground are ecstatic for one particular reason that it may be difficult for FReepers to understand. Candidates like Jon Tester, Jerry McNerney, Paul Hodes, and Jim Webb were all relative political unknowns — guys with great ideas who just had no "street cred" at all. The lefty blogs — dKos and DU, chiefly, coordinated the fundraising and did the canvassing, calling, and late-night video posting on YouTube.

We wanted this one like rabid dogs, and we got it. You guys will win again, and win big, but this time it was the democrats. If Jon Tester and Jerry McNerney begin taking money from lobbyists and accepting flights on Learjets, do you know what we'd do?

We'd castrate them. We'd end them. Ask a DUer — if these guys let Washington's corruption get under their skin, we'll vote against them.

But the truth is that they won't. I know this because that's why we picked them. They're committed to bringing some civility and dignity back to our country's political system — and so am I.

And, hopefully, so are you.

So, today, I'm reaching across the aisle, in earnest, and in what I hope you will realize is good faith. America isn't America without all of us, and I'm not about to let this election force us to self-segregate and turn into the epitome of what we hate. This country wasn't founded on ideological differences. America was founded as a place for people with unpopular beliefs. That's why the Puritans came here — and why everyone else followed.

Disagreement is no justification for acrimony.

If Free Republic joined with Daily Kos and DU to denounce corruption, cronyism, and dishonesty in government — regardless of our political stripes — we'll all be better for it.

I'm cross-posting a similar thread to dKos and DU in the hopes that the netroots on both sides can come together to reorient our government's ethical compass. Let's agree to disagree, but let's do it in an American way — in a way that helps all of us. We can (and should!) continue to fight for our personal morals, beliefs, and ideas — but we must ensure that our government, no matter which party controls it, is still a government of, by, and for the people.

So, come on, FReepers. Let's fix this country. Concentrate on common ground instead of ideological divisions. What do we all believe, and how can we leverage the immense power and respect of the blogosphere to do the most good?

I wish you all the best, and I'm sorry if I've ruined your day.

[Rosco T.]

1. how fast did they delete it?

[lander]

14. About ten minutes. And they revoked my posting privileges.

Oh, well. I tried.

[NaturalHigh]

18. Ten minutes?

They're running slow today. Good effort, though.

[Tyo]

39. Great post! I signed up last night

Was cruising their site checking out their reaction to six years of their crap going down the drain and I don't know why I did it but I'm a registered FReeper now.

Afterwards I thought briefly about posting something along the lines of your post, although I don't think I could have done it as well as you did. But obviously it wouldn't have gotten anywhere. We might as well forget about the olive branches. It is a very strange and scary place over there - a little slice of unapologetic totalitarianism.

Don't know what if anything I'll do with my new FReeper-hood. From the sound of it I'll get one post and one only so I'll have to make it count. Whether I ever post or not I'll be holding my nose and visiting periodically just so I don't forget what we are up against.

[AntiFascist]

25. They don't mind being called Freepers?

You know what they call DUers.

[Left Is Write]

29. I believe they themselves coined the term "FReeper."

[tavalon]

42. They call themselves freepers

I call them freeptards.

[tavalon]

43. DUmmies I believe is what they call us

I'm sure there will be other new ugly names now that we have punked them.

[AntiFascist]

49. DUmmies not because we are stupid, but....

because they don't think we understand how to play their "game".

[tavalon]

54. We can play their game just fine

We just don't think it's a very smart game. It's gratifying in the short term, useless and hurtful in the long term. But I would guess I'm talking to the choir here?

[lonestarnot]

86. And I understand that tonight they are calling one another and

themselves "retards." OMG :rofl:

[mhatrw]

30. You were treated very nicely.

You should have seen what they did to Jesus when he turned the other cheek.

[calmblueocean]

31. LOL! Did you get any replies?

I respect your bipartisanship, but you know, trying to coax them into a show of unity is like trying to play fetch with a cat. :-)

[lander]

77. LOL!

Yes, I got several very positive FReepmails. Mostly screed, though. Oh, well. I really do want to save this country, and we are going to have to work with them.

[Mythsaje]

165. Nice analogy

but completely inappropriate. I've KNOWN cats that play fetch.

[toadzilla]

195. my brother's cat plays fetch.

[tavalon]

40. Did you truly expect different?

It was a laudable effort though. I think I might suggest you try again in a month or two. It might go over better. Then again, probably not but it would be worth the effort.

[beezdotcom]

188. It WAS a laudable effort...

...and I have some ideas on how to improve its chances next time.

[lander]

190. Other than me not doing it...

...what ideas do you have?

[beezdotcom]

192. I'll tell you on newsvine - eom

[Ian David]

69. They're fucking nazis. All there is to it. n/t

[Demonaut]

71. silly lander, learn your lesson? all they heard was

blah blah blah, I'm a Democrat (shit eating commie) blah blah blah, etc, etc, etc,.

[lander]

74. I don't give up that easily.

I'm gonna... uh... stay the course... or something.

[Demonaut]

103. lol

[demwing]

121. Reminds me of that bit about what Dogs hear when we speak

Blah Blah Blah Blah Spot Blah Blah Food Blah Spot Blah Blah Blah Blah Ball. Blah Spot!

[Mythsaje]

166. Except I think dogs understand more than freepers...n/t

[Bryn]

89. Not Surprised! Read One of FReepers' posts

I went over there out of curiousity...what I found from there..someone posted like this:

'Vengeance is mine says the Lord! I will repay evil for evil! Thank you Mr. Rumsfeld for a job well done...GOD BE WITH YOU and may the Lord shine upon thee!!


This is so strange. Repay evil with evil?? Ugh!!
:nopity:

[yurbud]

102. maybe if you said something about hating gays, blacks, mexicans, or

muslims, it would have counter-balanced the good things you said enough for them to let you stay:

"And one thing we kin all agree on, is when them illegals is talking mexicish, theys plotting to take over America from the people god put here: the anglo-cacasoid."

[tlsmith1963]

108. You Should Target Moderate Republicans Instead

They would listen. The Freepers are too far gone. They lost their minds a long time ago.

[exlrrp]

197. Are you outta your fucking mind??

We just knocked ouselves out to beat these @#$%^'s and now you wantr to try and work with them???
Are you outta your fucking mind?? who the hell are you talking for?? You sure don't speak for me or a whole lot of other Kossacks and Democrats that don't want any power handed back to the Republicans--we want them out and to keep heading out!!

OK--which one of these guys do you want to sit down and get all warm and cozy with first--Delay?? "Hide the Pedophile" Hastert? Maybe Georgeie himself??--be sure and email him that everything's OK--we want to be Bi Partisan!

Boehner's still there and wants to be Republican leader--why don't you invite him over for dinner and we can all discuss in a war and friendly democratic way how we're going to get rid of all the corrupt Republican influence--the Bipartisan way!!

And the beauty of it is we don't have to pass any new legsiation to do it, the rules they created to disenfranchise us will do just fine. Let them sit in the basement waiting to be told what's going to happen, just like they did with us, while our leaders decide whats best to be done to straighten out the mess the Republican's made--untill everything's wonderful I don't want to hear any Republican yap again!!

If there's one thing Democrats should have learned these last many years of torture and despair is that the Republicans have NO intention whatsoever of sharing power with Democrats. They had no intention of sharing power with us on Nov 7 and they have no intention of sharing it with us today either or any day. Republican are ONLY working for our demise and they didn't start yesterday, they were already doing it and have been using the reins of power to do it for years.
Any reality we have that does not include that factor is not reality based

I don't want to listen to Freepers or conservatves in any manner at all. Fuck them entirely, up, down and sideways, now and in the forseeable future!! And all this "lets try to work with them" stuff is crapola, sure to lead to Republican rule again. Lets Use the reins of power wisely--and a wise man does not try to work with Republicans.

Anyone that thinks he can work with Republicans is only setting hiimself up for a good blanking in the blank. Tom Daschle tried to work with Republicans and Holyt Moly--we don't see Tom Daschle around much any more, do we? Go ask ol T.D if trying to work with Republicans pays off!!


You can go cozy up to them if you want but don't say your doing it for me!! As far as I'm concerned, now that we have these assholes down, stomp em in the face--we won't get the chance later

[donco6]

2. I'm Gay! Will Freepers love me, too?

:sarcasm:

[Sapphocrat]

44. I'm glad you asked first, don.

'Cause I'm tired of asking where we're supposed to fit into this dreamworld of making nicey-nicey with the haters who would just as soon see us dead.

[donco6]

55. Sheesh.

Sometime I'd like to see them NOT be quite so willing to throw us under the bus. Speaking of dreamworld . . .

[Maven]

62. Of COURSE they'll love us gays

Soon as we drop those ideological differences. :D

[Duncan Grant]

92. It's getting so that I'm always looking for your posts.

:yourock: :D

[donco6]

209. Gosh!

:blush:

Thanks.

[Mythsaje]

3. You're a braver human than I, Gunga Din.

For what it's worth, I agree.

I don't care if a criminal has an 'R' or a 'D' after his or her name. I won't choose party loyalty over loyalty to America or the human race.

[NaturalHigh]

10. Absolutely.

One of the things that really did in the Republicans this election cycle was turning a blind eye to the rot in their own party. If Democrats follow the same pattern of politics-as-usual cronyism, they will (deservedly) lose big somewhere down the road.

[VelmaD]

4. A challenge for you...

name me ONE thing the Freepers believe that I believe too. Something more substantive than mom and apple pie. Or pizza is yummy.

BTW, I have no doubt you'll get some posturing over there about how they agree with you about corruption. But if they really did, they wouldn't have been shock troops for one of the most corrupt administrations in the history of the world.

[Arugula Latte]

9. Maybe something like:

It's good to reduce the abortion rate.

Now, we have completely different reasons. We think it's smart to educate people about sex and give them access to good birth control so fewer abortions are necessary. They think it's good to keep women in their place by controlling their most personal decisions.

Still, we both agree on the general goal.

[VelmaD]

16. that's a big presumption on your part

I personally don't give a rat's ass about reducing the abortion rate. I don't care if women have abortions...it's their business, not mine. And every time I hear a politician spewing on this topic...it makes me cringe for every woman who has ever had an abortion and is being made to feel like she's a bad person for doing so. It's judgmental no matter which party the politician is from. It presumes there are too many abortions...it implies that abortions are a bad thing regardless of the circumstances. I frankly just wish everyone would shut up about abortion and leave it to women and their doctors and stop trying to tell us what's right and wrong.

That said, I'm all in favor of more education on birth control and sexuality.

[Arugula Latte]

19. Well, I'm totally fine with people having abortions too. However,

I think most people would agree it's just plain easier to prevent an unwanted pregnancy, no?

[colorado thinker]

35. Usually

But not always. Birth control is not fool-proof. There are many children walking the planet because birth control, whatever form you want to pick, failed. There have been many abortions for the same reason. I make no judgment on a woman who takes either road, it's not my life. But the main point is that there is a choice. 'Nuff said.

[lander]

23. It's not about making women feel bad.

I've been there for my friends who've had abortions. I'm not talking about shaming those who've had abortions, y'all — I'm talking about getting contraception education back into our schools ALONGSIDE abstinence education. "You should not have sex before marriage — but we know that people your age don't always listen to what we say, so you have to be prepared for what will happen if you decide to defy us."

[VelmaD]

28. I find your choice of words interesting...

"you have to be prepared for what will happen if you decide to defy us." Defy? Good grief.

And why should people not have sex before marriage? Why should we be teaching that bit of religious dogma is the schools?

[skygazer]

38. Excellent points

Does all that mean that those of us who never want to marry should live a life without sex? Why is that anyone's business?

[lander]

76. If we want to talk the talk...

...we've got to walk the walk. Compromise isn't compromise unless both sides give. I'm willing to let them toe the line on morality, as long as we're also allowed to present reasonable, realistic solutions as well.

[VelmaD]

106. Ok...you're making no sense whatsoever

There is no compromise on this. They DO NOT get to shove their morality down anyone's throat...especially not in publicly funded schools.

[lander]

110. At the risk of getting flamed some more...

I'm a high school teacher, and I don't know that many parents would be happy if, in sex ed, we just tossed condoms at the kids and said, "hey, have fun!" It's the parents' responsibility to teach morality, of course, but if we're going to offer contraception in schools, we should probably at least let them know that they should consider the pros and cons of having sex at fourteen. Condoms break sometimes, after all.

[VelmaD]

112. you just keep right on backpedaling

There is a difference between talking to kids about the pros and cons of having sex and what you said in your original post on this subject about the consequences of "defying us".

Nice right wing talking point about just throwing condoms at kids and telling them to "have fun" though.

[lander]

116. Jesus fucking Christ.

Please read my own blog. I've gotten myself in waaaay too deep here. Please, please, please don't think I'm some sort of trolling asshole. I already got that at FR and I learned my lesson, okay?

[VelmaD]

118. I just finished reading further down the thread...

about where you essentially lied about Democrats being no different from republicans in terms of scandals and knew you were doing so. I'm not sure what lesson you theoretically learned. But here's a new one for you to chew on...you don't get a free pass when you post after less than a week looking for us to tell you how wonderful you are for calling for unity with a bunch of assholes who have refered to us as unpatriotic, unamericans, terrorists, and worse for the last 6 years. You don't exactly walk, talk or quack like a liberal in this thread. And if you're going to stick around here you need to get used to getting raked over the coals over absolutely everything you say...because it happens to everyone else on DU and you don't get a pass on that either. Welcome to GD...wear a cup.

[txindy]

136. "Welcome to GD...wear a cup."

Nice post. Great ending.

[VelmaD]

137. gotta give credit where it's due

I lifted that one from Will Pitt. :)

[Heywood J]

185. Apparently because

people will take every opportunity to aim for the groin.

[Mythsaje]

169. Hey, Lander...

Welcome to DU.

Don't mind the sharp tones. I received my share of those in the beginning too. I'm pretty mainstream and it took me a while to learn to be careful how I worded things. Some DUers can be pretty harsh if you say something the wrong way.

I've mentored teenagers before. It's a little different, since I didn't have to stay inside anyone else's rules. I usually just told them, "don't be a dumbass. You don't really NEED to have sex, but you'd best protect yourself if you do." To guys I say "if you get a girl pregnant, you WILL be held responsible. A few minutes of pleasure isn't worth twenty-some years of debt. Always wear a condom."

I've usually mentored boys, but I used to have fairly long talks about the subject with my niece. She had the great bad example of her mother to steer her away from making bad decisions about sex and other things. All I usually had to do was reinforce her natural good sense.

[Warren DeMontague]

117. How many people do you know who didn't get married until their 30s?

Because I know a TON. I suppose they were all supposed to be abstaining, right?

:crazy:

I'm sorry, but "Don't have sex until you're married" is a ridiculous piece of dogma to be foisting on people in the 21st century.

And telling kids -in public schools- that "god" wants them to marry the very first person they screw is a recipe for shitty marriages and divorce.

[stanwyck]

191. You can teach without saying

"you shouldn't have sex before marriage". Really? I did. Everybody I know did. And I've been married 28 years - no divorces - and have raised two 23-yr. old twins who have, gasp!, had sex before marriage. Neither is married or likely to be anytime soon. My son is a Marine who has been to Iraq twice - and goes again in January. My daughter is using her college degree to counsel teenaged girls who are i juvenile detention.
And you want to inflict your moraility about "now you know you shouldn't have sex before marriage" on these two young adults?
I've got news for you. More and more young people are NOT getting married. Married people are now in the minority in this country.
You're introducing your morality into the discussion instead of giving students facts.
Your administrator can explain the differences to you. And should.
You're a teacher. Not a preacher.

[Sapphocrat]

41. Yes, it is all about making women feel bad.

I hope somebody else has the strength and energy to explain how abortion rights, women's rights, and LGBT equality (among other things) are all tied together in one big ugly class war -- and why the same people who are anti-choice are also anti-gay, and anti-feminism... and that none of this has anything whatsoever to do with "morality."

I hope somebody else has the werewithal to explain it, but I just don't right now.

[Maven]

64. Absolutely. It should be crystal clear that misogyny and homophobia are

inextricably linked.

[Maven]

63. Yeah, well uh, that's the problem, isn't it

They don't want to educate anyone about contraception.

[cap]

98. shouldn't married people also understand contraception????

and what really should be happening on a wedding night? I think virgins should know what they are getting into. I dont think most virgins want 10 kids. I dont think doctors want to go back to the bad old days when they had to undo bizarre stuff that uneducated people did with their bodies. Also, physical exams are tough to perform on frightened, scared bodies.

[Warren DeMontague]

157. The religious right wants to criminalize ALL birth control. Period.

You don't want babies? Don't fuck.

[VeggieTart]

56. Well, I personally would like to see fewer abortions...

...because I would like to see fewer unwanted pregnancies. Every unwanted pregnancy represents a difficult choice for a woman, and I wish no woman were in that position. I would like to see fewer abortions because no woman should get four or five months through her pregnancy and realize that her fetus is so deformed that it will not survive long after birth. I would like to see fewer abortions because no woman should have to make a choice between her life and her baby's life.

Yes, yes, I know that the latter two types of abortions are pretty damn rare and 85-90 percent are in the first twelve weeks, but they do happen, and I think it's a terrible tragedy for a woman to see her dreams come crashing down around her.

So birth control, birth control, birth control. And tell kids that it's perfectly okay to masturbate; it's the safest sex there is. And if you are too uncomfortable to talk about contraception with your partner, then you are not ready for sex.

[alfredo]

59. I read the "reducing abortion" statement differently. I believe they

want to reduce abortions by reducing the economic, social, health care problems that may lead a woman to seek an abortion. They don't want to legislate away abortion, they want to foster a society where a woman is not forced into a situation where she feels an abortion is the only option.

[reggie the dog]

181. also

also having the moring after pill helps, but having it cheap or free (here in France it is 7 euros)and for under 18's would help a lot more. that would lower the number of abortions a lot.

[alfredo]

187. It has been tough getting the morning after pill approved, and then

getting pharmacies to provide them. We have a lot of Theocrats that want to punish women for making a mistake or for getting raped.

[Turn CO Blue]

144. Never mind.

[nolabels]

189. The debate about abortion is about a three legged stool

If you pull one of the legs off it will fall. Republicans + Religion + abortion

Women and their bodies are just being used for leverage in a sick misogynous ploy in politics.

[Marr]

159. Exactly.

[AIJ Alom]

5. Got a link to over there ? Hopefully you'll reach someone

over there, someone who'll come back to reality.

[karlrschneider]

6. A valiant effort but somehow I don't imagine them embracing your

excellent suggestions.
:eyes:
Welcome to DU anyhoo...
;-)

[confludemocrat]

52. I dont think the OP gets it. They wanty to bury us and anyone not like them

These people were fine with separate facilities for the races, and now that gays have no right to the pursuit of happiness and they love war
plus, like they care about corruption, what gave you that idea Mr/Ms OP? Answer: you pulled it out of you ass

[lander]

88. No, I get it.

I'm just giving it a shot, okay?

[madmax]

7. Where might we find your post?

I looked a bit didn't see it. Give us a hint ;)

[tavalon]

47. It got pulled after 10 minutes according to the OP

[lander]

78. Everything was going well — I'd been posting there for days.

I think they just got upset that I decided to write my own post.

[Contrary1]

8. Can't find it. n/t

[Quantess]

13. Maybe the thread got pulled.

In any case, lander, why throw pearls at swine?

[puerco-bellies]

11. Right on..

The goal of all Americans should be honest, responsive government. Well said.

[tblue]

12. Hi Freepers! We are nice people here. We don't preach hate. We forgive. We care about

others. We don't want to hurt you and we don't want to take your money and guns away. If you open your mind just a little bit, you'll find we're not anything at all like people on the radio and tv have been telling you. We love our country and our Constitution as much as anybody. I bet you have wives, mothers, or friends who are liberals like us, and you know you'd trust them with your life. And you know it's because those individuals exemplify values that are so often labeled liberal: community, fairness, justice, equality, security, and peace. Stick around. We are not your enemy.

[populistdriven]

73. Hollywood taught the freepers that approach doesnt work

Since they never read books and watch FoxNews all day

[NaturalHigh]

15. Great post...

but Free Republic doesn't really tolerate a lot of free thinking. For what it's worth, I totally agree with you.

[unpossibles]

17. good post

wonder how many of them know what "acrimony" means. :)

hmm. I'm all about doing what is right for America regardless of party, but I'm not sure I believe their open hands yet. I think I got their true colors when they treated lefties like shit for years - sometimes even calling for death threats, or saying we were unpatriotic terrorists - and I don't believe they are sorry; they're just sorry they got caught (just like their leaders).

[Wiley50]

20. Deleted Already? You should have posted a link for us n/t

[Wiley50]

27. Man, They Use Cheezy Forum Software

Our site is so much more functional and upscale

[karlrschneider]

32. Well, RimJob needs that money for his fancy RV

(seriesly)
:evilgrin:

[Ioo]

60. I agree - the forum looks as if it was designed by a MORAN

[YDogg]

21. I think Harry Reid would disagree with your assessment ...

... about how he spends his afternoons. But otherwise, I like it, and salute your effort.

[SammyWinstonJack]

53. That part bothered me, too.

[Maven]

65. I think he'd also disagree with this bullshit "everybody does it equally" argument

concerning corruption.

You know, the same way Abramoff was a "bipartisan" scandal? :eyes:

[lander]

75. It's the only Dem scandal I could think of...

...that is, without dredging up Clinton. C'mon, it's Free Republic — I couldn't mention Bush without giving us "equal time".

[Maven]

81. So you appease people with lies?

Maybe it's time for them to FACE THE TRUTH.

That's what this election was about. Reality check.

[lander]

83. Reality doesn't fly at FR. n/t

[Maven]

84. Well then there's your answer.

Don't bother.

[Bouncy Ball]

90. So, You are trying to talk reasonably to people

for whom reality "doesn't fly."

And you don't see the futility in that?

What a waste of keystrokes.

[lander]

91. I disagree.

It's not a waste of keystrokes. I got four private FReepmails expressing agreement and a willingness to fight criminal politicians. A few of the FReepers even joined DU and posted their thoughts. So, no, I don't see any futility in that.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

109. Great! More Freepers trolling around on DU. Just what I always wanted!

:sarcasm:

[Catrina]

186. But it's not a scandal, it's a smear!

It's not the first attempt to smear Harry Reid that turned out not to be true, and it won't be the last. Have you read what Reid's answer to the smear was?

Scandal is:

Republican, Duke Cunningham (R) In jail for corruption
Republican Tom Delay (R) indicted for corruption
Republicans Ney, Noe, and a host of other Ohio Republicans convicted on charges of corruption (including the Governor with more to come)
Republicans Abramoff, Kidan, and the untold numbers of Republicans either indicted, convicted or under investigation (Doolittel, Burns, Pombo, Cornyn) for corruption.
Republican administration of Illinois Governor Ryan convicted of corruption.
Republican David Safavian convicted of lying to the Feds
Republican Claude Allen convicted of shop-lifting
Republican Governor Rowland of CT convicted of corruption
Republican Defense Contractor Wade convicted of corruption
Republican Enron/Bush campaign contribors Ken Lay, Schilling et al convicted of corruption.
Republican Larry Franklin convicted of spying in the Pentagon Spy case. Two others on trial for spying.
Republican Congressman Foley under investigation for violating sexual predator law that he co-sponsored.
Republican Scooter Libby indicted for perjury and OOJ.


I could on, and there will be more as the Abramoff and Cunningham (Hookergate) investigations unfold.

This is just off the top of my head. There is simply no way to compare this level of corruption to anything we've seen in recent history and to use what is a smear to try to make a comparison, is simply wrong.

I understand trying to stop the divisiveness but since it was caused by Freeper types I would rather go elsewhere, like maybe Baloon Juice eg, where at least some of them seem to get it.

But if we are to fix this country the first thing we need is to be totally honest. I could have mentioned other Republicans eg, who have been implicated in crimes, but they have NOT been indicted or convicted so to do so would be smearing them at this point.

Freepers are basically a lost cause. Many of the more rational ones have left already. Without Republican votes, Dems couldn't have won this election, so we have already won over many from the other side. Or I should say, the Bush administration's corruption drove them away. Freepers don't disapprove of corruption, they disapprove of their side getting caught. And they smear our side on a regular basis. Let's not help them in their dishonesty. If I ever post there, I will give them a complete list of Republicans who have either been indicted or convicted and ask if they plan to continue to support this, because if they do, they are our enemy.

[TexasLawyer]

22. conciliatory

Free Republic won't allow any "can't-we-just-get-along" type posts. It might actually lead to people getting along. That's the opposite of the FR mission.

I posted something very benign there a few years back. It was gone in 60 seconds.

[cui bono]

61. Hm... so that's what that movie is about...

[TexasLawyer]

141. LOL!!!

Funny! I thought it was from the actual movie, 'til I read the text. Too good!

[cui bono]

210. :)

[Maven]

66. .

"Free Republic won't allow any "can't-we-just-get-along" type posts. It might actually lead to people getting along."

:rofl:

[DaveJ]

24. "You guys will win again"???

Am I totally insane for not wanting that to happen ever?

[karlrschneider]

26. Nah, you aren't nuts...but at SOME point they will...

Say, around 2080...


;-)

[DaveJ]

33. That's too soon...

Just getting tired of this two party system. If Republicans were more aptly renamed the War Party, then people might more likely support other more progressive parties.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

36. I'll be returning to my basic atomic structure about that time...

But I might try to come back if they rear their ugly, hateful heads again.

They had 12 years and completely fucked the dog. They let the looniest of the right have their way. Enough. Never again.

They cannot govern or make policy. All they can do is hate.

[baby_mouse]

50. No. They'll never win again. Not THAT Brand.

Reality is too big to accomodate such short-sightd selfishness, and by the time the pendulum would be set for the next swing back, globalisation and the related social paraphernalia will have rendered their particular brand of conservatism entirely obsolete.

There may be another brand of conservativism sometime later, but the petty, swiftboating, psychopathic brand has had its day and is now shuffling off into the wings, peering over its shoulder with confused suspicion and misunderstanding...

[spancks]

94. Yes, the phrase "Dustbin of history"

comes to mind. Or was it "Ash pile"?

Whatever, they're on their way to extinction now - and that's a good thing.

[Maven]

67. no, quite sane actually.

[slackmaster]

34. T&K&R

This should be good.

[BlueEyedSon]

37. You know what? Their warped ideologies are more important to them

than integrity (i.e. no corruption & cronyism)

[confludemocrat]

45. Why the shot at Harry Reid? go take a flying leap (& why wasn't this OP 86'd?)

[donco6]

58. I don't get it, either.

He admits to having posted on FR for a long time, but has less than 30 posts here. Duh!

[lander]

104. I said DU, you said FR, but I actually meant dKos.

I've been posting there since '04.

[lander]

82. Hey. Listen, buddy.

Go check out my long-winded defense of Harry in an earlier thread on FR. I was there to mend fences, not to fire on all cylinders.

If you disagree with me, great. Let me know. But why would you calll for me to be 86'd? We want to take the high ground, not their ground.

[confludemocrat]

95. screw that and your gratuitous sucking up to that bunch of fucktards, buddy

get real

[lander]

97. I already am, thanks.

I was only trying to help — gimme a freakin' break and read that if you really think I'm a fucktard, okay?

[confludemocrat]

99. I called the freepers fucktards, not you. n/t

[lander]

101. Fair. My bad. Sorry. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

46. I welcome any freeper who wants to help us IMPEACH BUSH!!!

[upi402]

113. Yeah, welcome!

Just don't let 'em behind ya.
And they need to keep both hands in view.
And no sudden moves.
And empty pockets.
Cavity check, of course.

Okay, we're ready to trust now!

:silly:
Actually I'd sit by one at the trial.

[baby_mouse]

48. laudable in spirit, but...

... I fear you are dealing with a mindset alien to us. Division is a fundamental part of their identity, unity fills them with horror.

They care nothing for people like us at all, and never will.

[Joanne98]

51. Are you trying to say It's "bidiness as usual"?

I'm in Ohio an I can pretty much say with confidence that "WE ARE OUT FOR OURSELVES'. We in OHIO want more NONEY! We want JOBS!

We WON"T BE DISTRACTED!

[Berserker]

57. Thank You

Dixie Chicks I feel the same:

I'm not ready to make nice,
I'm not ready to back down,
I'm still mad as hell
And I don't have time
To go round and round and round
It's too late to make it right
I probably wouldn't if I could
Cause I'm mad as hell
Can't bring myself to do what it is
You think I should

[doublethink]

68. Great Post ..... but ......

all I needed to read beyond it was the first response here and your answer to him/her ......


Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Wed Nov-08-06 02:59 PM
1. how fast did they delete it?

lander (26 posts) Wed Nov-08-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #1

14. About ten minutes. And they revoked my posting privileges.
Oh, well. I tried.

sorry but :rofl: ..... oh well nice try. Peace, and carry on comrade.

[Sparkly]

70. Give up on the Freepers.

People like that have their little minds SHUT -- they will never get over their own insecurities enough to get perspective, think logically, or accept facts.

There ARE people who call themselves "conservative" who Democrats may be able to reach out to -- but they won't be found at FR.

[Ian David]

72. Email the Repukes directly.

There's an email list of some of the RNC Delegates posted here:
http://susiemadrak.com/2006/11/06/18/04/robo-called/

And more of their contact information here:
http://subpoena.nycimc.org/040819/list-0404-12-08-2004.csv

And here:
http://subpoena.nycimc.org/040819/

And here:
http://web.archive.org/web/20041012003838/http://nyc.indymedia.org/newswire/display_any/101494


Background info on the source:
http://subpoena.nycimc.org/

[last1standing]

79. I don't agree with your moral equivalency.

The repubs ran rampant for 12 years looting our treasury for their political and personal gain to an extent never seen in the history of this country. The Dems never came close to their level of corruption. Reid is not "spending his afternoons thinking about how to double his real estate money instead of how to lead his majority". He has shown complete compliance with the rules of the senate every step of the way with his fiscal dealings other than one simple error that was rectified as soon as it was pointed out. It was of no great financial boon to him.

I want to make sure the Democrats don't turn into the corrupt vermin the repubs did as well, but you don't help matters by immediately going into "they're all corrupt" mode. They are not all corrupt, not even the repubs. The best you'll do with posts like this, either here or in freeperville, is suppress the desire for average people to get involved with the process. That in turn will just lead to further corruption.

Give our new House and Senate a chance to prove themselves before you work to slander them.

[lander]

80. They've revived my post...

...so they could sh*t all over it.

How sweet.

[GoneOffShore]

85. Hey, you tried

It's amazing the number of reptile brains there are over there.

I clicked your link and landed in the dinosaur swamp. They don't want reconciliation, they want another Clenis.

[Generic Brad]

They suspected you of making up gibberish words like "acrimony"

When posting there - use many small misspelled words and limit your posts to 50 words or less. And never identify yourself as a non-believer there. If you post entries like "Hell, yez!" or "Youse got that sh*t right!!!!11!!" you might be fortunate enough to get in almost 20 posts before they recognize you as an outlier.

[Generic Brad]

87. They suspected you of making up gibberish words like "acrimony"

When posting there - use many small misspelled words and limit your posts to 50 words or less. And never identify yourself as a non-believer there. If you post entries like "Hell, yez!" or "Youse got that sh*t right!!!!11!!" you might be fortunate enough to get in almost 20 posts before they recognize you as an outlier.

[Batgirl]

93. What possible motivation could there be

for reassuring the Freepers "you guys will win again, and win big"?

Do you actually believe it's possible to "reach across the aisle" to unrepentant, extreme Bush-cultists? Why would they accept your invitation to "join with Daily Kos and DU" in order to "reorient our government's ethical compass" when their stated position is that all of the nation's problems and ills are the result of our very existence?

You seem worried that the Freepers might be feeling mad and sad but maybe they'll feel cheerier if they see a supposed Dem doing a little Dem bashing, plus issuing a lace-edged invitation for them to form some kind of coalition with the left blogosphere. Is this idea-- that suddenly the bad guys have learned their lesson and are going to want to be our friends-- the tragic result of watching too many very special episodes of 80s sitcoms?

If you want to do an outreach, wouldn't it be more realistic to start with people who are at least reasonable enough not to wish you dead?

[Clarkie1]

96. I'm so proud you posted this. It's sad they revoked it. Says something about those on that site.nt

[lander]

100. Thank you.

And that's really the lesson I've taken from it: there really is no such thing as discussion on FR — just hate.

[Old and In the Way]

105. I was surveying the train wreck over there and saw your post.

You lost them when you said you were a Democrat. It's like Pavlov's dog....say Democrat and they start salivating and breaking out in hives. Really, the 100 or so responses were quite typical - short and crude. Only one reasonable reply....and, of course, the worker bees in the hive accuse him of being a troll.

What would have been very interesting, in a sociological experimental type of way, would have been to put essentially the same post here, replacing the key phrase "I'm a Democrat" with "I'm a Republican". I guarantee that you'd have gotten nowhere near the same response. True, a few comments would be hostile, but you'd have seen other DUer's defending you. Most comments would have been conciliatory and engaging in a meaningful dialogue type of way. Too bad....the differences between the 2 reactions would have been quite enllightening to compare and contrast. Perhaps, in a few months, someone could do that to see how different the groups really are.

I do agree with other posters, you really shouldn't have smeared Reid about his land deals. His transactions were entirely above board and profits were not a function of his legislative influence. Hastert, OTOH, clearly violated ethics with getting legislation in his local transportation bill that added an interchange miles from a development that he had recently invested in. I really hate to see false equivalencies made when the facts don't support the conclusion.

Oh well, you tried.

[lander]

107. My fiancé is smarter than I.

She suggested (after the fact, of course) that I should have used Jefferson instead of Reid as an example. I feel like I should write a letter of apology to Harry — I know his land deal was on the up-and-up, legally. Ugh. Now I feel all queasy — I have made many more enemies than friends tonight; I don't know that anyone's in a very conciliatory mood.

[Batgirl]

115. I don't think you should worry much about it.

You'd have to do a lot better - or worse- than this to end up on anyone's shit list.
Maybe you were just overly motivated by that good old liberal tendency to forgive one's enemies.
An admirable trait in theory, but some of us have seen enough to know what happens when you reach into the velociraptor cage with a milkbone.

[lander]

145. Yeah, but...

...I also reached into a box of milkbones with a milkbone; I still got bitten.

[Warren DeMontague]

120. Fiancé?

I suppose you're abstaining until marriage, too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2646299&mesg_id=2646543

You know, walking the talk and all. :hi:

Welcome to DU. Really, man. :hippie:

[lander]

146. If you really must know, Mister Lebowski...

...no. Not at all.

By the way, nice marmot.

[Warren DeMontague]

155. Thanks. Good. Then maybe we can agree that it's a bullshit concept for government to try

to foist on everyone else, too.

[lander]

160. Not 100%, no.

See, the high school teacher in me says that if we offered contraceptives and no guidance on economics/family planning, we'd have a pretty awful situation in areas where parents are completely disengaged. I'm only 26 — and even since my high school days, parents have become astonishingly absent. No one shows up to parent-teacher conferences anymore — I think I saw three parents in two hours last spring.

But I think the guidance should be more along the lines of how we teach hygeine and table manners in schools — not by advocating a morality, but rather by offering practical arguments and examples. For example, birth control isn't perfect — and having a child at fourteen can force you to sit out the prime of your social and educational life. Besides, it's an impossible financial burden and likely a huge strain on your own parents — so be careful.

[Warren DeMontague]

170. Right, That's good.

But that's not the same thing as saying "You should not have sex before marriage — but we know that people your age don't always listen to what we say, so you have to be prepared for what will happen if you decide to defy us."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2646299&mesg_id=2646543

See, telling kids -point blank- "You SHOULD NOT have sex until you're married" (along with using phraseology like "don't defy us") is not only an moral edict, it's a bullshit absolutist one that kids KNOW doesn't line up with reality. It's like telling kids that if they smoke pot, their testicles will fall off, they'll get date raped, and in a month they'll end up shooting heroin. Float that crap, and they tune out any potentially true messages -say, about meth, or the financial burden of single parenthood- you may be inclined to throw into the mix.

Now, you're 26. You're not abstaining. So you're going to sit in front of a room full of HS students, with a straight face, and say "Don't have sex until marriage. Marry the VERY FIRST PERSON you screw."? I'm a lot older than you, and I lost my virginity at 16. Back in the olden days, heh heh. And I was right in the median, man. Most kids lost their virginity around that age, and most still do. There was nothing "wrong", or "defective" with me, and I wasn't lacking in morals-- or guidance, for that matter. I was a teenager, and teenagers have sex. Always have, always will. What they NEED is access to safe, effective contraception, and honest education about pregancy and STDs.

Another point of advice, lander, is you seem to do a little bit of telling people what you think they want to hear. And then changing it, depending. (I've worked with people like that. It's maddening as shit.) For instance, what you wrote in your post above is quite a bit different from saying we should tell kids "not to have sex before marriage", for to do so would be to "defy" us. (and we should "concede" that point to the religious right) Similarly, you've gotten into a bit of hot water about what you wrote over at FR re: Gay Marriage. I think there's more than a couple people here who'd like a concise clarification of how you feel about that.

And always, understand that you are new here - hey, we pretty much ALL were new here, once - but whether it's right or wrong, as someone who is new you're probably going to be, eh, scrutinized (for lack of a better word) for a while. FWIW I wouldn't let that bug me, if you're really interested in hanging around and you're up front and honest with people, long-term no one will remember if your first thread was a giant flamefest, or not.

[lander]

174. Fair enough.

Yeah. I was afraid that the FReepers would come here and think I was being disingenuous (I was). I misrepresented myself and it came back and bit me in the ass. You know, in actuality, I was telling you what they wanted to hear... kinda...

About gay marriage? Um, honestly — and I don't say this often — I don't have any strong convictions... then again, I'm not gay. I am opposed to statewide and federal bans on gay marriage, but I feel that it's up to the states to decide to affirm the right (I believe, in general, that constitutions ought to affirm and not deny rights, y'know?). I will tell you that I take immense pride in the fact that my fiancé works for a company that provides full benefits to domestic partners.

My brother, however, is a fervent supporter of gay marriage. He's not gay, either. But he's very pro-Israel and pro-capital-punishment. Not that those things are diametrically opposed, but you get the idea. Right? It's a spectrum.

[NMMNG]

177. Why should we believe you?

You post this on FR:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1735125/posts

To: listenhillary
EXACTLY! And the Democrats won! Which means at least SOME Democrats (myself included) are AGAINST gay marriage?

Shocking? I think not.

35 posted on 11/08/2006 12:03:31 PM PST by landeraepi


Then you state here:

I am opposed to statewide and federal bans on gay marriage, but I feel that it's up to the states to decide to affirm the right.

So were you lying to them, to us, or both?

My money is on both.

[lander]

179. Well, then don't believe me. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

194. I'm friends with gay Israelis. How's that for a spectrum?

It's funny that you trot out those particular examples- more evidence, I suspect, that the RW noise machine has done a decent job misrepresenting what "liberals" are supposed to stand for.

Hey- I'm "pro-Israel" in that I fully support Israel's right to exist and defend itself- but that doesn't mean I support everything the right wing in Israel does. Funny, neither does my Israeli wife. And -go figure- neither of us is gay, but we both fervently believe that marriage rights are a civil rights issue and an issue of equality for our Gay & Lesbian brothers & sisters. My biggest problem with capital punishment is that the Justice system fucks up a lot, and is heavily weighted against poor and/or minority defendants. The injustice of a wrongful life imprisonment sentence can be corrected. A death sentence cannot.

But, hang around here enough, and you'll see that views on issues like the Death Penalty and Israel are pretty diverse and split. (Surprising news flash, we're not all interested in taking people's guns away, either!) Like I said, just be careful with the misrepresenting yourself. Folks in these parts do tend to have pretty finely calibrated bullshit detectors.

Peace.

[upi402]

111. Greet you with flowers and chocolates, did they?

{crickets}
;-)

[lander]

114. Yeah, as a liberator... er, liberal.

And you know how they feel about us liberals.

[upi402]

134. LOL, oh I know...

I wade in, still, from time to time. Never have I seen one admit he/she was wrong. No matter what.

[Norwood]

119. Thanks for trying anyway Lander

I agree with you, I think its worth trying to get some type of dialog between us and the more reasonable republicans. If we have to be the ones to extend that olive branch, well then so be it. I know I and most of DU would welcome some healthy debate/disagreement. As far as the freeps that would like to keep their heads in the sand and ignore the corruption, well screw em.

[LostinVA]

184. Except Freepers aren't reasonable Republicans

Olympia Snowier is a reasonable Republican. My uncle is a reasonable Republican.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

122. I have a serious question. Why do you not support EQUAL RIGHTS for all Americans?

Seriously, why am I a second class citizen? I pay my taxes. I'm a productive member of society. Why am I not worthy of equal rights?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1735000/posts

To: listenhillary
EXACTLY! And the Democrats won! Which means at least SOME Democrats (myself included) are AGAINST gay marriage?

Shocking? I think not.

35 posted on 11/08/2006 12:03:31 PM PST by landeraepi

[VelmaD]

124. and there's the nail in the coffin

And hugs to you for having to wade through that cesspool to find that post. :hug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

127. Wading through that cesspool is an odd form of entertainment for me.

I did feel that post needed to be brought to light here though.

:hug:

[VelmaD]

128. I hope all the people who were patting him on the back...

make it this far down the thread.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

131. So do I and I would like an answer to why I don't deserve equal rights.

I have a feeling I may not get one though.

[VelmaD]

133. the silence...

is deafening

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

135. Yes, well...there is no reason aside from bigotry really.

[Batgirl]

138. does this mean it was a troll after all?

If so, he's gone and spoiled everything for all the other Freepers who, after painful self reflection, were about to reach across the aisle.
I will probably never trust again.

[txindy]

139. Oh, my...

:spray: :rofl:

[Maven]

140. .

:rofl:

[lander]

148. I. Am. Not. A. Troll.

Look. Read. Please. Okay?!

AAAH! WHY DID THIS HAVE TO BE MY FIRST POST ON DU!?!?!?!?!?!

[lander]

149. I had to drive home. Sorry. nt

[blonndee]

126. Holy shit! Nice catch.

Not very "supportive of progressive ideals," is it?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

129. Definitely not.

[Maven]

130. Crickets...

I'm going to recommend this post just so people can see what kind of "bridge building" we're talking about here.

The name "Zell Miller" comes to mind.

[lander]

150. HOLY SHIT NO!#()$*#()%*

Okay, look, I was having a PRETTY NICE WEDNESDAY... I know why this is happening, okay? I understand that we're all a bit distrusting of outsiders, given the past six years. I understand that we are ever-vigilant, intelligent, and slightly exciteable — but please. Come on. Do I really have to do this?

- Volunteer, Planned Parenthood
- Volunteer for Claire McCaskill
- Member, Missouri NARAL
- Member, Democracy For America
- Member, National Education Association
- Officer, College Democrats

My best rejected idea of the campaign season was to print up two sets of bumper stickers, one saying "NO" and one saying "ASS CLOWN", and put them on Jim Talent's signs.
Oh! Oh! Yeah... and I do musical theater. MUSICAL THEATER, folks.

The list goes on and on. My comments at FR and the specifics of my post (at DU, dKos, and FR) do not represent my personal beliefs, although the sentiment I expressed is absolutely genuine. My aim was to reach across the aisle and strike a friendly, conciliatory tone with the FReepers. I had been reading dozens of threads over there and noticed that there was a small minority amongst them who were coming out of the woodwork saying "see? This is what happens when you alienate the true conservatives — we stay home." So, I figured maybe there were a few who would drop the Kool-Aid if only someone were to reach out their hand and say, "look, we won — but we're not trying to ruin the world, and you probably already know that," and ask, "do you want to... I don't know... help?"

Poor judgment on my part. It was a botched joke appeal.

[Maven]

153. .

My comments at FR and the specifics of my post (at DU, dKos, and FR) do not represent my personal beliefs. My aim was to reach across the aisle and strike a friendly, conciliatory tone with the FReepers.

I don't understand. Then why should anyone trust anything you say?

And what the hell does this have to do with your antigay comments at FR?

[fishwax]

173. so in order to reach out to FR you have to disown gay rights/human rights

That's why the attempt at conciliation with people like that inspires a lot of anger on a site like this. Conciliation with them requires, your experience or instincts would apparently demonstrate, betraying our friends, our families, ourselves.

Fuck that.

[lander]

175. I'm sorry. nt

[Sapphocrat]

176. Clarify this for me:

My comments at FR and the specifics of my post (at DU, dKos, and FR) do not represent my personal beliefs, although the sentiment I expressed is absolutely genuine.

So whose personal beliefs were you expressing? Somebody's whose personal beliefs you don't share, but whose anti-gay, anti-choice, anti-Democratic sentiment is absolutely genuine, which makes you think that gays, women, and Dems at large will forgive your broadbrush smears because our tiny minds can't possibly fathom the complexity of some grand plan of yours to have the haters and the peaceniks sitting around in a circle singing -- what did that one freeper suggest? "Kumbaya"? -- by day's end?

You must think we're even stupider than the freepers you've been sucking up to. (Oh, by the way, sorry to see you got banned over there. I hope it didn't come as any big surprise.)

So what you're telling us now is you didn't mean all those nasty things you posted about Democrats, gay people, et al., at FR -- such as the following (bold emphasis mine)... right?

To: oblomov
"Democrats" aren't going to do much of anything about property rights — the Congress will. We elected a whole wave of pro-gun, anti-abortion, pro-family democrats in the west and mountain west, and I can't wait for this wave to start sweeping the democratic party in full force.

Democrats believe all kinds of things — but most of all, we believe in people.

51 posted on 11/08/2006 12:14:04 PM PST by landeraepi



To: listenhillary
EXACTLY! And the Democrats won! Which means at least SOME Democrats (myself included) are AGAINST gay marriage?

Shocking? I think not.

35 posted on 11/08/2006 12:03:31 PM PST by landeraepi



To: KC Burke
I don't know if you realize this, but it's impossible for science (at least at this point) to clone a human being without a uterus. In order for a blastocyst to grow into a fetus, it MUST be implanted in a uterus.

Again, I see where the Dim-lawyers have made this overly complicated and convoluted, but it certainly does not legalize any of the things that I thought — and was told — it was legalizing.

If you understand biology on a high school level, this isn't difficult to figure out.

19 posted on 11/04/2006 11:21:39 AM PST by landeraepi

After denying all that, why should anyone believe a single word you say here?

And no, I'm not buying your lame explanation that a question mark at the end of your "SOME Democrats (myself included) are AGAINST gay marriage" remark negates its meaning. You meant every word of it.

Oh, and are you sticking with the "Barry Goldwater is my cousin" story too?

[lander]

178. Hrm...

I give up. Yep, you got me. I hate everyone.

Oh, and are you sticking with the "Barry Goldwater is my cousin" story too?

Well, yes, that I am sticking with. I've heard second cousin or first cousin something removed. (What do you call your grandfather's first cousin, anyhow?)

[Sapphocrat]

180. Clarification enough for me, thank you.

I give up. Yep, you got me. I hate everyone.

Well, either you're telling the truth now, or you're pulling the whipped-puppy act, which often works well on saintly little old ladies, fresh-out-of-college third-grade teachers, and your mom, but which doesn't work on me. However, since even thinking, much less accusing you, of the latter would be grossly unfair on my part -- and since I have a bad habit of giving everyone the benefit of the doubt until they fuck me over royally -- I'll do you the courtesy of believing you are telling the truth.

Thus, you are not denying a single word you posted on FR after all. Which means you are anti-gay, anti-choice, and anti-Democratic Party -- and which means you weren't lying to FR, but to DU. And you're not a liberal, as you claim somewhere upthread, since you posted on FR something to effect, "Call me anything, but don't call me a liberal." (As much as I dread wading into the cesspool that is FR again, I can find your post and quote it here, if you'd like it verbatim.)

Got it. No paint off my fender -- as long as we know where everybody stands.

Re Barry Goldwater:

That I am sticking with. Except he's actually my second cousin, as has been pointed out by someone else.

Then it's a downright shame you didn't learn any lessons from him. Ol' Barry may have been a lot of things, but he was a straight talker -- and he eventually saw the light about a number of issues, particularly LGBT issues.

But then, I can claim Frank Capra as a direct ancestor, too -- and I didn't inherit anything from him, either.

[Warren DeMontague]

143. I'll third that.

I guess the "common ground" we're supposed to find is the turf our GLBT friends, along with pro-choicers and atheists such as myself, will get tossed onto when we're thrown from the bus in the name of "unity". :eyes:

[lander]

147. Oy...

Look at the end of the sentence. It's a question mark.
Holy crap, I wish you knew me.

No. I'm not against gay marriage. I promise.

::sinks head into hands::

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

152. It was a pretty weird way of saying you're for equal rights, question mark or not.

"Which means at least SOME Democrats (myself included) are AGAINST gay marriage?"

I think most people would agree with how I read it.

[lander]

154. That was the point. nt

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

156. .

:eyes:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

164. Then explain me this...

To: oblomov
"Democrats" aren't going to do much of anything about property rights — the Congress will. We elected a whole wave of pro-gun, anti-abortion, pro-family democrats in the west and mountain west, and I can't wait for this wave to start sweeping the democratic party in full force.

Democrats believe all kinds of things — but most of all, we believe in people.

51 posted on 11/08/2006 12:14:04 PM PST by landeraepi

I'm a strong supporter of RKBA, but anti-choice and "pro-family" sounds more like the Republican party to me. I know what "pro-family" is code for...bigotry.

[lander]

167. Uhrm...

anti-choice and "pro-family" sounds more like the Republican party to me.

Read that again. That's why I chose the words I did. Please, can we put this to bed? I'm ready to start celebrating in earnest.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

171. Hey, you wrote it. I own what I say. You should, too.

Why do you not support a woman's right to choose?

What does "pro-family" mean to you? It's pretty much accepted as a euphemism for "anti-gay."

[lander]

172. Okay.

I do support a woman's right to choose. I am a volunteer for Planned Parenthood and a member of Missouri NARAL.

Pro-family is Republican double-speak to us, but means "anti-gay" to them. And I was talking to them.

And I do own this.

[TheBaldyMan]

151. Abso-Fucking-lutely Right haruka

that isn't about equal rights, it's about human rights as far as I'm concerned.

Letting people designate their chosen partner as next-of-kin and beneficiary of their pension hasn't brought about the collapse of civilisation in Europe. The way the gay-bashers act is inhuman and unfeeling.

[Canuckistanian]

123. Interesting post, interesting discussion

Maybe someday medical science will come up with a reason why so many Freepers respond the way they do.

Perhaps it's some mass psychosis or just a basic tribal instinct gone haywire.

I think you're not dealing with any kind of a familiar mindset. I don't know how many there are out there like this, but they can't be ignored. Nor can they be reasoned with in any conventional sense.

These are the hard core exremists. Doubtless they'd say the same about us, but their closed-mindedness is... breathtaking.

But good for you to try.

[NuttyFluffers]

125. well, we all occasionally need a learning lesson.

this time you learned that there really are some people who are beyond help and truly love to wallow in their own hate-fueled crapulence. a painful lesson to learn that some humans can be so willfully evil. oh well, now you know, and knowing is half the battle.
;)

[InvisibleTouch]

132. A thoughtful post...

...intelligently written, spelled correctly, proper punctuation - it's no surprise they totally didn't get it. I understand what you were trying to do, and though I don't entirely agree with the sentiment, I do respect the effort. There are several very passionate and dedicated DUers around here these days who admit to once having been Freepers, until they finally woke up to the facts. So it was worth a shot, and it's even possible that you did give one or two readers a new perspective. As for the rest - don't feel bad, you tried, and that's all you can do. Now leave them to sink in their own morass.

[LSK]

142. thats a great post, but you dont understand those people

This is a game to them. If corruption and cronyism gives the GOP power, then THEY LIKE IT. They dont know about things such as HONOR or ETHICS or INTEGRITY. These concepts are foreign to these people. The fact that they deleted that post in 10 minutes is proof that I am right about what I say.

You are wasting your time with those people. There is no reasoning with them.

[lander]

162. And I know that now. nt

[NMMNG]

158. Give me a break

Go over there and read their posts. They are full of hate, derision and even threats of violence and death. Do those sound like people who are willing to compromise and make peace?

[LostinVA]

182. Thank you -- another voice of reason on teh thread

[Marr]

161. The people at Little Green Footballs were rooting for a military coup today.

I have nothing in common with supporters of the American fascist movement. Not a god damn thing. The LGF crowd and the Freeper crowd are one and the same, and they are not to be reached out to. They should be marginalized and mocked, period.

If you want to reach out to conservatives, I suggest people of the Lou Dobbs variety. They are at least rational and reasonable. We can have an exchange with these people and potentially learn something.

But Freepers? Little Green Footballers? No, they should not be included in anything.

[LostinVA]

183. Excellent post

[Raster]

208. Rooting for a military coup? Who the hell did they think the military was going

to revolt against? The newly elected Democratic-majority Congress? heh heh heh That's a good one.
BULLETIN: If there was a military coup, it would be to REMOVE bush* and his cronies from office. Obviously the LGF crowd has spent little time or effort to REALLY discern the military view of bushco*. Trust me, it's not nice. bushco*'s wanton disregard for the military and their subsequent use and abuse has left many military men and women, and their families--with a very bad rethuglican taste in their mouths. The meme that the military always supports the rethuglicans has just about seen the end of the line. bushco* still may have some support and loyalty from some of the officers, but that's about it. Coup? Yeah, whatever.

[orleans]

163. bullshit

"Because I — we — need you. We at Democratic Underground and Daily Kos, and all of the lefty blogs you love to hate, and who love to hate you. We need you to acknowledge that if there's one thing we're learning about our country's political system, it's that there's way too much corruption. Too much greed. Cronyism. Lying. It's on both sides, folks "

speak for yourself.
i hate to be so rude, but really...you might be feeling all warm and squishy but not all of us are. i don't "need" them to acknowledge shit. fuck them.

you said there was way too much corruption, greed, cronyism, lying--on *both* sides. really? name names, give me examples besides jefferson.

just because you want them to admit they're shit doesn't mean you have to "confess" that we're shit too. we're not. they are. they have been for twelve fucking years. try to keep that in mind when you want to make nice-nice and don't include me as part of it. please.

new here?

[lander]

168. Why, yes. Yes, I am. nt

[Zenlitened]

193. If you're talking about Freepers with a capital "F," then no thanks.

I don't need them. Don't need to get through to them. Just need to get around them, or shove them out of the way, if that's what it takes. As the voters did on Tuesday.

We, as progressives, are the majority in this country. We've got work to do, and it doesn't involve giving milk and cookies to lunatic-fringers, so they can feel all warm and snuggly. No time for that.

As I've often said, those who have something decent left in them will come to their senses and join us, if we take solid steps to demonstrate the value of Democratic leadership. Common-sense policies with detailed action plans, for example. Well-crafted legislation that benefits our entire society. A willingness to stand up and defend core American values such as liberty, dignity, and opportunity.

Those who are capable of it will take heart, and support us and as we go about our work. Those who can't... well, as I said, we don't need to waste time on them. We've got a job to do.

[Name removed]

196. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trumad]

198. Oh come on guys....

the dudes not a troll and he's clearly trying to make amends.

AND I gotta ask...if you're against Gay Marriage on DU, does that make you a troll?

[Phillycat]

199. Did you read the whole thread?

It's more than the gay marriage thing...although I would contend that there are very, very few people on DU who are against gay marriage or at least civil unions. Generally if they're against gay marriage, it's because they're against all marriage, or at least the government being involved in the business of marriage. I've never heard an actual DUer say they were against it because they believe in the sanctity of one man and one woman or some bullshit...

[trumad]

201. Sure did...and it's a great read...

the point is, when I joined DU 5 years ago, I had some preconceived notions on a bunch of stuff that didn't conform to a true Progressive ideology. I learned and I changed some of my opinions.

The Death penalty for instance. I was for it before I joined DU and now I'm against it thanks to DU.

I'm just saying the sniff factor on this guy is pretty low and I believe him..MHO

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[trumad]

205. Now you see...we can go a whole thread on why you're for the death penalty.

another time maybe..;-)

[Phillycat]

207. I'll be here!

:D :hi:

[warrens]

200. You're talking to the Coulter audience

You can't reason with mad dogs. The average Republican might be approachable, but these people are not. To them, you are a communist, bent on destroying the U.S. and turning their women over to Arab terrorists. They're not rational, and you can't treat them as if they are.

[Raster]

203. I'm not ready to make nice. I'm not ready to back down...

And I sure as hell am not ready to sing Kum-ba-fucking-ya!

[DinahMoeHum]

204. So FR deleted you after 10 minutes? Fuck 'em, it's their loss.

:evilfrown:

[Catchawave]

206. WOWsa !

You can speak for me anytime :hi:

And Welcome to DU :toast:

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

211. Why do you bother

They are mentally ill. They are not able to reason. They hate anyone who does not 100% agree with them all the time. And they are probably going to go live in Wyoming and start the new militia soon. Let them rot.