We GLBT folks deserve an *immediate* apology.

[Zhade]

Those of you who declared the NJ decision would cost us the elections - it's time you acknowledge that our fighting for our equal rights DIDN'T cause the disaster you wrongly predicted.

This is not about gloating, but reconciliation. Some of you were very nasty to us. I'd like to offer, from myself at least, amnesty: apologize for your (likely fear-based) dire predictions of blame, and we're good, as long as it never happens again.

I also urge my fellow GLBTers to let people say they're sorry and not attack them, as tempting as it might be to rub it in their faces - I think the realization that they were wrong to say what they did is enough recrimination, if they're sincere about it.

(And btw, we friggin' rocked yesterday, with a few disappointments. Go us!)

[mondo joe]

1. I don't need an apology, but if you'd like to buy me a Manhattan I'll accept.

:-)

[valerief]

3. Oo, I love Manhattans. nt

[Bouncy Ball]

5. I'll buy you five Manhattans.

[DarkTirade]

72. Here in the US I think one of those only costs a few bead necklaces...

Pretty good price considering the cost of land nowadays.

[jpgray]

2. As I've always said, it's not doing the right but unpopular thing that harms us

It's letting the GOP decide which issues to make the campaign about. They pick losing issues for us every time, when it comes to choosing which debate to spotlight. Well, this time they had no choice in the matter--their own incompetence finally trumped all their hand-picked social issues and drove them out on their asses. So the answer isn't to stop supporting equal rights--that would be tragic. The answer is to make the election about the wrong, unpopular stances of the GOP, not the righthearted but unpopular stances of our own party.

[Zhade]

7. That continues to be great advice.

NT!

[terrya]

22. Perfectly said,

And I thank you. I've gotten just as pissed as my other GLBT DUers. But we have our friends here. :-)

[BootinUp]

4. Don't blame you

for being upset about that.

[NNadir]

6. I never thought for a minute that gay rights would cost us elections.

So I guess I don't personally owe you an apology.

[Zhade]

9. Nope, we're good on that.

:)

[Bouncy Ball]

8. I just don't like how the right wing USES gay marriage to try to

scare reactionary homophobes into going to the polling place.

That's the only thing I have a problem with (besides homophobia in the first place).

I totally support GLBT rights, always have, always will.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

10. Kick! I'm waiting for apologies here.

:kick:

[left is right]

18. while I don't think I responded to any of the many posts

citing NJ's gay marriage decision--I do think GL deserve an apology. So here it is, I apologize for any discomfort that was caused by our collective need to win at any cost mentality The truth is as Dems we only win when all have access to equal rights--no matter what the actual election outcome is

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

20. Thank you.

:thumbsup:

[Zhade]

30. Hell yeah!

:yourock:

[ThomCat]

33. That is a cool post.

And that shows that you are a good person who gets it.

[WindRavenX]

45. me too

:kick:

[Ian David]

11. If only Lincoln would have waited to free the slaves...

we wouldn't have had a civil war!

Damn victims of injustice... always inconveniencing us.

[Jacobin]

41. Um, a little historical accuracy would be nice about now

Civil War started in 1861. The first PARTIAL Emancipation Proclomation was handed down in 1863 ONLY APPLICABLE TO STATES IN REBELLION.

Only later did the proclamation take effect in the rest of the country. The civil war was not fought 'to free the slaves'. It was an economic war brought about by the rise of the agrarian wealthy class that threatened the industrial powers in the northeast. Freeing the slaves came as a convenient pretext, and an emotional rallying cry in the depths of the war when it was going badly for the North.

[Ian David]

74. Your facts come from books. Mine come from my gut. I don't trust books.

They're all fact, no heart.

[HockeyMom]

12. They forgot about your mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers,

aunts, uncles, co workers, friends, neighbors, etc., etc. You are not living in a cocoon.

We were there to support you. Keep up the fight and congratulations.

[Guava Jelly]

13. I apologize for those who won't apologize.

I myself was never worried about the nj decision.

[ThomCat]

34. I don't think we should accept your apology

because you are not one of the people who needs to give one. You wear a cape. You're one of the good guys.

[Guava Jelly]

79. injustice is injustice

I apologize to my fellow glbt humans for a world where love is treated as a crime.
If i could fix it i sure would :)

[Jamastiene]

42. Yeah, but, but...

aren't you a lesbian with male parts? :shrug: Why do you need to apologize? I don't think you need to apologize. You are one of us...in a way. :D

[Guava Jelly]

80. Thank you!

Being an honorary lesbian is quite an honor.
(just wish i could take a more active part) :rofl:
I just try to lead by example.It's ok for a totally straight man to accept glbt humans.
It doesn't mean i am gay it means i have compassion and understanding :)

[Sabriel]

14. I'll apologize for the morons in Wisconsin

We're sorry about the amendment. You have no idea how sorry.

[Exiled in America]

65. Same here in Idaho - we fought really, really, really hard.

Sorry everybody.

Andrew Yoder
Campaign Manager
Idaho Votes NO on HJR2

[NoodleyAppendage]

15. I was wrong and for that I am sorry. Thankfully they didn't use the old playbook.

Just when you think you have Rove figured out...

J

[Change has come]

17. Woo Hoo NoodleyAppendage!

:toast:

[ThomCat]

35. They tried.

We tried harder! :)

It would be good to have you on our side in this fight.

[Zhade]

56. Thank you! It takes courage to say that.

:toast:

[NMMNG]

60. Thank you.

:-)

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

16. Anyone who made such a prediction...

Has some soul-searching ahead of them.

[lcordero2]

19. Apology?

We owe you a BIG FAT THANK YOU!!!

The GLBT community probably doesn't have any clue how many lives they saved during this election cycle.

[Lerkfish]

21. I don't have to apologize....

because I've been saying all along we should never compromise anyone's rights to attempt to get elected.

I've been in a few fierce battles here with some, not just the GLBT aspect, but the idea of them telling us to forget about Iraq, forget about filibustering alito, etc,

Once we compromise what we KNOW is right: that every citizens should have the same rights as every other citizen, we cease to be democrats.

[Sapphocrat]

23. It will take a lot more than an apology...

...from those who threw us under the bus while swearing they are 100% in favor of LGBT equality. What it will take is seeing those same people actively jump into the battle, alongside us. Actively. Consistently. Unflaggingly.

An apology is easy, and meaningless. Putting action behind one's words is the true test of sincerity.

Call me hard, Zhade, but I've heard way too many empty words -- and received too many pats on the head -- to be mollified by mere apologies.

[readmoreoften]

27. Agreed, Sapphocrat. We need straight DUers to explain to their friends and families

that we need the ability to take care of our families, to not live in fear of physical attack or being fired from our jobs. If you do YOUR part and explain this to your friends and family, instead of arguing minutae with us, that is all the apology I will ever need. Because if you do that, then we won't lose elections over GLBT issues anymore.

[ThomCat]

36. I'm hoping that with the help of Straight people here at DU

we can get a few steps closer to fairness, justice, and equality.

We'll see...

[smokey nj]

54. As a straight DUer and a proud citizen of the Garden State......

I didn't think the court's ruling was strong enough, marriage is a right that should be enjoyed equally by everybody. I'm tired of the "civil unions" bullshit - enough of the semantics. My husband and I had a civil ceremony and we are MARRIED. The people who said that Menendez would lose his Senate seat because of the ruling obviously don't know the state of NJ very well. The majority of NJ citizens are not a bunch of bible-thumping freaks, I wouldn't be able to live here if that were the case.

I apologize that my LGBT brothers and sisters have had to deal, yet again, with this bullshit.

[donco6]

46. Amen, Sapph. eom

[Zhade]

58. Look, I agree.

But you have to admit, those who won't even apologize - we KNOW they hate us.

[Sapphocrat]

61. Oh, I know they won't, Zhade.

The silence is truly deafening. And telling.

[Zhade]

67. Hey, I'm reading comments elsewhere that we shouldn't hold criminals...

...accountable for their crimes (i.e., the administration).

I'm starting to think the United States may be fundamentally broken, when even good people say things like this.

[LittleClarkie]

69. Hey we were fighting against an amendment here in Wisconsin

I'm sorry we weren't successful. Now even civil unions are outlawed. How fucked up is that?

[Sapphocrat]

71. It's way fucked up.

It's so fucked up, it puts Wisconsin on a par with Virginia, which is something I never thought I'd see. (I loved Wisconsin up to now!)

Nah, LittleClarkie, you don't have anything to apologize for. You don't do the Chicken Little "We're doomed! We're doomed! The gays are killing us!" Dance -- on the contrary, I've seen you advocate on our behalf more than a few times. And I thank you for that. Please don't stop.

[ThatsMyBarack]

24. From your straight-but-not-narrow friend:

GLBT :yourock:! :toast:

[Critters2]

25. I preached a sermon supporting marriage equallty Sunday, and

it's got some of my parishioners in quite a snit. Not many, but some. If just supporting equality is this hard, I shudder to think what it's like to live without equality. (If I every meet a suitable mate, I may find out!).

I've always supported marriage equality, but I'm sorry on behalf of all the institutions I've been associated with that haven't.

I'm mostly just sad, and sorry for the struggles of GLBT people. And working to make it better.

Critters

[NMDemDist2]

26. I've never needed to apologize cuz this old hetro woman has

gotten flamed and flamed back over GLBT rights.

I've been a DUer for a couple years and over 30K posts and the only flame wars I've ever participated in have been when I demanded GLBT rights and pointed out the bigoted, biased bullshit of trying to throw Gay people off (or under) the bus

:hi:

PS I was thrilled to see Arizona refuse to make gay people an issue. :bounce:

[Mr_Spock]

28. I'm sorry I overreacted when I heard the story on the Nightly News

which announced this was going to be a political issue this election. I was wrong to believe that the MSM was anything but a bunch of bloviating trouble making trolls.

I'm also sorry that the RWers have made being gay into a political issue - a persons private life is just that - their private life.

And a persons rights should be the same whether gay, straight or asexual for that matter.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

29. thank you.

[readmoreoften]

31. Thanks, Mr. Spock.

Although it's not just our private life that's the problem. It's our public life, too. People know that we're GLBT, and we have to change our behavior in public too-- how we look at one another in the grocery store, how we hold our partners when they are sick in the hospital.

But thanks so much for your apology. I'm sorry the media scared you.

[Divine Discontent]

40. ty Mr_Spock

and to all the others who apologized. it's even better to see the voters in some states not throw gays under the bus like the Tennessee Massacre (over 80%!).


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[Mr_Spock]

43. The scumbags in several states still threw gays under the bus

Unfortunately, it's gonna take the passing of time before some of these RW jerks back off on this issue. :(

[Duncan Grant]

53. A toast to you, Mr_Spock.

It's a pity that so many of the politically powerful exploit GLBT people. Among the worse damage created is the alienation many of us experience from one another (GLBT and straight). Shouldn't we really be building alliances?

Here's to straight/GLBT alliances - and to you. :toast:

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Duncan Grant]

64. Hateful gay bigots?

Just when I thought it was a good time to come back to DU. :banghead:

[Name removed]

66. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Duncan Grant]

70. Well, I'm going to expect the best.

We'll see what good it does me.

[NMMNG]

73. And "Heterophobes"

As well as some other tasteless stuff.

[txindy]

32. I've been gone from DU for many months, so this is news to me.

I'm very sorry to hear that happened to you. :hug:

[Ilsa]

37. No one should ever accuse any group of ruining elections

when they are fighting for their equal rights!

The other day, on an interview with NPR, the reporter commented on how few younger voters understood the miscegenation drafted into the Corker ad against Harold Ford, but the voters older than mid-forties saw it in a heartbeat, even if they don't agree with it.

My point is to say this blessing: May someday all the battles for equality be a distant memory for all groups who have suffered oppression.

[bhunt70]

38. I'm sorry Virginia didn't come through for ya...

[greeneyedboy]

39. i for one am too THRILLED to be interested in apologies.

let's just never again hear that b.s. about how standing up for queer people's human rights was a mistake.

forget factionalism and backbiting--time for UNITY; ethical, responsive, and competent governance; sane policies; fair trade; decent jobs and protections for workers; sustainable culture; innovation and free expression; and all that good stuff.

[Book Lover]

44. K&R because you are *right*

[Duncan Grant]

47. I love it when GLBT people step up and ask for what they need!

Great thread, Zhade. :thumbsup:

I hope more DUers will ally with GLBT people. May I suggest empathy as a great place to start?

[BlooInBloo]

48. Don't hold your breath. Such people essentially never admit being wrong.

[Mr_Spock]

51. pity

some people just don't get it...

[Rex]

49. I couldn't believe people posted it would.

I'm still not sure how some DUrs thought it would hurt our chances.

[ConsAreLiars]

50. We straight sane humanists who believe in justice also deserve that apology.

I assume that those who advocate not (yet) taking a stand for equal rights honestly believe that "winning" depends on Dems/liberals not seeming to be too "different" from the right-wingers. The same point of view is seen in criticisms of other progressive stands, anti-war actions, and so on. My own view is that without a clearly defined, consistent and principled ideology that puts human rights above money rights, bigotry and fear-mongering, the Party will continue to have a reputation for being unprincipled, opportunist, untrustworthy and irrelevant.

[JackBeck]

52. I've been offering hugs all day long to anyone who wants to come forward and

apologize.

Not one person said they were sorry.

Makes one wonder.

Seriously, I don't care. I have hugs for anyone who admits they were wrong.

[Nicole]

55. I'm sorry

I'm sorry that some on DU felt that way, even sorrier that they had the nerve to post it.

[lonestarnot]

57. Missed this but we did friggin' rock didn't we!

:hug:

[AtomicKitten]

62. I have always maintained it is never a bad time to insist on

the civil rights of EVERYONE. So, I don't owe you an apology for that. But I'm sorry for whatever I might owe you an apology for and have forgotten. If I don't owe you any, just put it on my account.

[VelmaD]

63. yes you do...

and you are about as likely to get it today as you and pro-choice women were to get the apology we were owed back in 2004. That would be not at all. *sigh*

For what it's worth, I'm sorry you had to put up with the bullshit again.

[k_jerome]

68. I was not involved in the discussions you reference, but...

I would like to apologize for being part of a society that blatantly discriminates against a sizable portion of its own members. Seeing these measures passing, most of the time with large margins that must include both Dems and Repubs disgusts and shames me. Finally, blaming these same persecuted people for their own status as second class citizens, let alone blaming them for costing elections is beyond reprehensible.

I will support this crusade for equal rights wholeheartedly, but honestly see no light at the end of the tunnel in a country where it appears there is so much outright and in many cases proud bigotry on display in what I see as a truly bi-partisan issue. Nothing brings together people like a little discrimination, after all.

[dddem]

75. i wasn't really paying attention

For what it's worth, I'm sorry for all the frustration you have too put up with to try and get your message out. But, like I tell my kids, don't be sorry, be better. Rather than ask for an apology from folks who, more than likely, don't feel like they did anything wrong or offensive, Maybe you should ask for some real support from the rest of us. It's time for straight people to show some real kahunas in this fight for civil rights. Open up our mouths, argue back with bigots. The more you speak up, the more you'll find like-minded supportive people. I have my 'straight but not narrow' bumper sticker, and you'd be surpised at how many positive comments I've received from other straight pwople who want to know where I got it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the whole, you don't need people who are sorry, you need real allies. Count me in.
Peace.

[samhsarah]

76. Haven't been around DU much lately,

I've been busy with personal matters and working on the election so I missed this. But I am from NJ and I must say I have never been more proud to be from NJ than when that decision came down. I am not a GLBTer, but I don't really think that matters when the issue is equal rights for ALL. That is just terrible that people here would say things like that. Since when do we only fight for peoples' rights at a time when it is politically expedient? That is just a disgraceful thing to say. BTW, while you are demanding apologies, I would also throw in that you deserve an apology from Bill Maher. Yesterday on Larry King I could swear I heard him say that he was willing to give the republinazi's the gay marriage thing. Way to throw the GLBT community under the bus, Bill. What an ASSHOLE.

[Bushfire]

77. Control of State Assemblies, State Senate, and Governorships

keep homophobic ballot initiatives off the ballot, while giving fundies less of a reason to GOTV. Every position that serves in a statehouse position is important for this very reason.

This cheesehead apologizes for the homophobics in Wisconsin. My marraige is not threatened by a gay couple on my street from having the same rights.

[terrya]

78. Coming out in favor of same-sex marriage didn't hurt Eliot Spitzer

who would be, if I'm not mistaken, the new Governor of New York State.