The Reign... has passed.

[pamela]

I've been thinking a lot today about the message that Elizabeth Edwards posted on DU right after the 2004 election. I was so touched by her compassion that day and the fact that she was trying to console and encourage us in the midst of her own, unimaginable, pain. I thought I'd post these words again as a reminder of how far we've come in two years.

"A little patience, and we shall see the reign of witches pass over, their spells dissolve, and the people, recovering their true sight, restore their government to it's true principles. It is true that in the mean time we are suffering deeply in spirit, and incurring the horrors of a war & long oppressions of enormous public debt...If the game runs sometimes against us at home we must have patience till luck turns, & then we shall have an opportunity of winning back the principles we have lost, for this is a game where principles are the stake." -Thomas Jefferson

Thanks again, Elizabeth, and thank you to all the members of this wonderful community. I don't know what I would have done without you since that sad, sad day. We still have a lot to do, but our luck has turned and I'm proud to be a part of a community that knows the true meaning of the word "principles" and is willing to fight for them against what has seemed, at times, to be insurmountable odds.

[NEDem]

1. I've had that posted above my computer since the 'day after' in 2004,

it's a little faded but its still there. I think I'll leave it there just a little longer.

[pamela]

34. The "day after"

That was such a crazy day, wasn't it? I remember honestly feeling like I was losing my mind...that we were being told that up was down and black was white and I just couldn't believe that so many Americans had fallen for it. I thought Elizabeth's post that day perfectly captured what we were all feeling. It was uplifting without minimizing the pain we were feeling. She's such an amazing woman.

I had this fantasy before the '04 election that after John and John were elected, I would write to Elizabeth and tell her about this idea I have for a program that would provide real support for the families of our troops. In my fantasy, Elizabeth would call me and ask me to help her implement the program and we would become best friends. Lol. I know, I sound delusional, but I really felt like anything was possible back then. I guess that's one reason her message was so moving to me, and why I've never forgotten it. That, plus the fact that she had just found out she had CANCER and was posting on here to try to make us feel better. That just blew my mind.

[bobbolink]

2. She "misspoke" and I hope you change your title

You must remember, there are those who follow a religion who call themselves witches, and they are just as good and deserving of respect and consideration as any other.

If you're using it to avoid the term "bitch", please use "bitch" instead.

Denigrating Pagans isn't enlightened, nor is it "liberal".

Elizabeth should know better!

[NewJeffCT]

3. She was quoting Thomas Jefferson

I remember the post. Author George R.R. Martin used it on his website around the same time, too.

[bobbolink]

7. So, then it's OK to have slavery back, too?

Yanno, the time comes to recognize that some of these things are from another era, and are no longer acceptable.

Elizabeth is a big person, and needs to take back her words.

So does the OP.

Quit with the excuses, and recognize when you have stepped on toes.

[Generator]

4. Oh please

AS if there are not BAD witches, too. ALWAYS with the P.C. CRAP. I actually lean toward Pagan, but just like my feminism, I tend to keep a sense of humour and perspective, it's the meaning behind the words and she wasn't advocating perscuting pagans for Christ's sake! (shout out to the Christians! HA)

[bobbolink]

6. Oh please your own self.

When you can't cope with common courtesy, then it's time for a good time out.

bye now...and take your hate spiel with you!

[conscious evolution]

5. A Wiccan I know said

that about 2 years ago someone cast a big spell.
Notice how purple seems to be everywhere lately?
He said it was part of the spell.

When that quote came out he kept talking about the illumanati or bohemian grove or some such secret society thing.

It all seems tinfoil as hell to me.
But if it's true then my hats off to them.

[bobbolink]

9. So, then that would put witches, Pagans and Wiccans in the

"good" column, right?

If you remember, the OP used witches as something bad.

We definitely need them on our side!

[conscious evolution]

20. Human nature being

what it is,it seems tto me that there are good and bad people who practice such arts.

[Matariki]

8. I"M a WITCH and I don't find offence with or mis-understand this quote.

lighten up. please.

[bobbolink]

10. YOU lighten up.

Enough with the demands.

Every Wiccan *I* know "takes offense", so how would I know you are what you say you are?

I posted my objection politely, and I don't appreciate your put down.

So, get a life.

Isn't that charming?

[Matariki]

12. Yeah well, every WITCH I know is OVER taking things personally

A result of spiritual work.

[bobbolink]

15. what a nice bit of one-up-man ship. Guess that's highly spiritual, too, eh?

Bye now....

[Matariki]

17. You seem to be into getting the last word your own self

you say you're not Pagan, yet when you hear from someone who is, but doesn't agree with your 'concern' - you get all huffy.

That quote is NOT about Pagans or Witches or Hermeticists or even Satanists - it's about politicians like Bush who would oppress ordinary people. That is perfectly obvious to THIS witch.

[nofurylike]

38. except those still persecuted. i understand that you don't know

them, but i do.

g'night.



peace

[nofurylike]

18. i am, and i felt intense pain on reading the subject line. is that ok

with you?

witches have been on the good and persecuted side in this.
i mean, why not say the reign of the white male-supremacist christians has passed?


peace

[Matariki]

28. sure - I understand the prejudice that magik has towards it

I live with that predjudice and get frustrated that I have to keep secret some of the most exciting things in my life because what i do scares people or they think it's just plain crazy.

BUT that doesn't mean that I have to go out of my way to NOT understand the meaning of that Jefferson quote just because it has the word Witch in it. The meaning of that quote is in no way criticizing my spiritual practices and I'm not going to pretend it does just to get upset about something. And besides, Jefferson is long dead.

You are free to do and feel as you like.

[nofurylike]

35. you know, i felt pain on reading it, but even more that one DUer

was very gentle and peaceful in suggesting the subject line be changed, only to be both dismissed and put down for expressing it.

it is interesting that, to many on DU, it has become just fine to say things like "get over it" and "oh please" "lighten up" to people who express being offended, but it's not okay to object and be upset because of being offended.

g'night.


peace

[Matariki]

45. intense pain? caused by a Thomas Jefferson quote?

I think it must be difficult for you to ever leave your house and interact with other people. I rather believe you are exaggerating because you want to police what other people write. Are you really a Wiccan or Pagan? If so, I suggest you do work to balance the elements and stop taking things so personally. It's ridiculous to get so offended by a quote that has nothing to do with you. Dick Cheney is the only one who ought to be 'deeply pained' by that quote.

[nofurylike]

11. thank you for saying that, bobbolink. it hurt my heart to read that

subject line.

i have admired elizabeth edwards, but i also feel she should have had more sensitivity on this...
even if jefferson didn't.

thank you for speaking out.


peace

[bobbolink]

16. You're welcome! I'm not Pagan, or Wiccan, but I'm certainly

wanting to see respect for all!

I hope you tell Elizabeth how it hurts you to read that.

I really do believe she's a big enough person to listen.

Unlike those who like to lash out here...

Take good care of yourself!

:hi:

[nofurylike]

27. it is very thoughtful of you, bobbolink. and it is true, what you say. i

ought to write elizabeth edwards my feelings on this, too.

i will take your advice and do so.

and thank you for your kindness.

you take care of you too!

:hi:

peace!

[bobbolink]

47. thoughtful? Hmmmm, just being part of the human race!

Thanks, nofurylike, I appreciated hearing from you! All those pugilistic messages really are disheartening, and make me wonder why we worked so hard to get a Dem majority, if that's all it means--beating up others who you don't want to take the time to understand.

So, I'm really glad that it was helpful to you.

Just one thing... when I suggested letting Elizabeth know how that felt to you, I didn't at *all* mean instead of saying something on this thread. I think we all need to speak up wherever these things pop up. I just meant that I think Elizabeth needs it pointed out to her that she wouldn't quote Jefferson on something regarding slavery (which he obviously condoned), so the same holds with other groups.

I also want to mention to you that I'm now in the geriatric set ~~chortle~~, so in times past that meant that I would have some wisdom to impart. People these days don't seem to want that, but I'll share this with you anyway. :)

During my dirtyhippiecommiepinkobum days in Berkeley, there were lots of groups discovering their awareness of themselves, and speaking out for justice. The difference was that we all listened to each other, developed sensitivity for what was hurtful to each other, and treated that speaking out with the respect it deserves.

As a result, we had not only a lot of support among our own groups, but a lot of cohesion and cooperation between groups.

When I see all the hostile comments (spoken with such pride!), it saddens me not only that I can't see the difference between that hostility and the hostility from the RW, but because there's been so much handwringing about how to broaden our "base", and how to get more people to vote, and otherwise take part in the process.

Well, the very first step is that old song.... R-E-S-P-E-C-T. If someone says that something you've said hurts, then, for the goddess' sake, back off! It's a very small thing that we can do for each other, and it makes the world of difference in our... world.

That's a word from an old lady. We really can be sensitive and caring and supportive.

We really can.

Best to you! :hi: :pals: :hi:

[nofurylike]

49. "We really can be sensitive and caring and supportive."

"thoughtful? Hmmmm, just being part of the human race!" yours is a very nice way to see the human race, bobbolink!

thank you!
i don't know if you realized it then, but it was your courage to speak out that encouraged me to speak, and then to stand strong. and it was your compassionate insight that gave me to hope that compassion could make that difference, at least for some.

i understood that you were not suggesting i write elizabeth *instead* of posting here. it's just that i realized my not saying it to elizabeth back when she first posted that quote, is why it is being quoted now. i also feel that you're correct that i ought to let elizabeth know that some are hurt by it, as i am convinced she would care about that, and deserves to be told before hurting someone with it again. she would especially understand if put the way you do here: "she wouldn't quote Jefferson on something regarding slavery (which he obviously condoned), so the same holds with other groups." yes yes yes.

i think - beyond that societies just should never have forgotten the importance of elders' ("the geriatric set" "chortle" lol!) wisdom - you yourself have much insight and wisdom to impart around here. i look forward to hearing more of it on these boards!

btw, i'm sorry i didn't check back to this thread for a later reply! i am way out of practice at DUing, and the new structure befuddles me at times.

:hi:
be well! :pals:


with admiration

[pamela]

22. I'm genuinely sorry.

The last thing I intended was to hurt anyone here.

[nofurylike]

25. thank you so much, pamela! eom

[nofurylike]

31. it is kind you care that much. i will try to write ms edwards on her

using that quote. the sad thing is that the point is important, and soothing, but there has to be ways to say it that do not cast aspersions on other folk, who also just happen to be dear allies.

i am very thankful to you.


peace!

[nofurylike]

40. i'm off for now, but thank you, again. i know you did not intend to

hurt anyone.
it is a very fine point, but jefferson lived in another time... that's all. i think if it had been in quote marks, i wouldn't have been so sharply hurt by it. i first read it as a local's statement and was stunned to find a DUer saying such a thing.

i am sincerely sorry it was on your thread i reacted to this quote, as i should have taken it to ms edwards from the time of her first using it on DU. please accept my apology for not doing that back when i should have.


kindness, peace and understanding, always

[pamela]

42. peace

You don't owe me an apology. We're cool.:pals:

[nofurylike]

44. *

kind spirit

:pals:


peace!

[bobbolink]

48. Thank you, pamela!! I appreciate you!

:applause:

In these days of so much roughness and lack of caring for each other, it's refreshing to have someone reply with sensitivity and caring. I very much appreciate that.

I definitely know that you didn't intend any hurt. I know that it was a quotation, and that if you didn't have any Pagans in your circle of friends, you likely wouldn't have given it any thought, just as Elizabeth didn't.

I so much appreciate you hearing my words, and making the adjustment!

I"m happy to share the planet with you! :pals:

[Big Kahuna]

14. No biggie as far as I'm concerned, and I am Pagan.

During the 90's.. no one on either side of the isle had anything better to do than promote, or oppose "political correctness". It kept Rush Limbaugh in business for almost a decade, before 9/11.

Thanks for the concern, but this Pagan and Witch can defend himself.

[msongs]

13. get a grip. the quote is NOT about real witches, it is allegory

it is about his political opponents of the day and their policies.

you know, stuff that the alleged jesus used to say.

or just like the stuff dems say about bush.

Msongs
www.msongs.com

[nofurylike]

21. then it should have been in quotation marks, shouldn't it have? to

happen upon it as appearing to be the statement of a DUer was hurtful.

is that just fine with you?

[NEDem]

23. I have no problem with the quote

and I'm married to a wiccan. I've had this quote posted over my computer for 2 years, she framed it for me. Some of you need to chill out.

[Rocknrule]

19. How about "The Reign of Witch-Kings"

Since Loser Santorum is so fond of LotR

[nofurylike]

24. thank you thank you!! eom

[Jcrowley]

26. Witches were enlightened

It's the businessmen I'm worried about.

[nofurylike]

30. well said, Jcrowley. eom

[Mr_Spock]

29. Who stole the witches!

Hehe - you got the "treatment" - lol

[Matariki]

32. That's a great quote

It always made me think of Rove & Cheney specifically.

I wish you hadn't succumbed to pressure to change the thread title. There was nothing offensive about it.

[nofurylike]

36. to you. the only who matters, i guess. g'night. eom

[Matariki]

46. Interesting - reading through this thread, you seem to have made it all about you.

And how much that quote personally makes you suffer. Bah.

[pamela]

39. I didn't really feel pressured.

I was a bit surprised at the reaction but now I can see how the thread title, out of context, might be hurtful to witches. I just figure if you unintentionally hurt someone's feelings, it's just best to apologize and do what you can to correct the situation.

[NEDem]

33. You shouldn't have given in on the thread title.

Anyone with 1/10 of a brain knew what the quote was.

For the record, Yes I am saying that those that complained are idiots. And frankly I really honestly don't care if you are offened, because the complaints WERE idiotic.

[nofurylike]

37. maybe you care about DU rules? please read them. thank you. nt

[and-justice-for-all]

41. The Theocracy has been cancelled!!!!

Time to clean up all those fucking Rethug messes!

[nofurylike]

43. i like that. and YES! eom