Bushbot says: "This election is proof that 2000 and 2004 not stolen"

[Emit]

It makes for interesting discussion and introspection.

If the republicans stole the 2000 and 2004 elections we would still be in the majority.

Where's your conspiracy theories now?

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=65412&postdays=0&postorder=asc&topic_view=&start=0

On a related note:

AMERICANS VOTED BUT PAPA BUSH STAGED A COUP

It'll take a while to explain this, but what I mean is that, Bush Sr., took advantage of the revolution staged by American voters to insert his own people in power. The most blatant indication of this is his appointment of Bob Gates as seccy of defense.

http://discussions.pbs.org/viewtopic.pbs?t=65469&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=63b0860beadb0807cf764670d9492ccc

[lonestarnot]

1. BULLSHIT!

[helderheid]

2. check it out

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2632227&mesg_id=2653728

[Emit]

4. Funny, I was just checking that thread out before you posted!

But, can you explain your question about "machines programmed to switch within a certain percentage?" -- I haven't read all the comments, and I'm a still sleep deprived from GOTVing on E-Day, but what are you getting at specifically with your question? Thanks!

[papau]

8. My response to OP as posted in original thread to that question is below

yes-maybe? The Virginia malfunctioning machine had a 1% bias in one direction
but as the code is proprietary no one could look at the code to see if it was on purpose.

The bias was revealed via complaints by amazingly observant people - and confirmed post election by demonstration.

So was it code, or a "bad chip" - does it make a difference since the real question is "was it planned"?
============================================================

perhaps now the GOP will agree to paper trails and random mandatory audits of say 5% of the vote?

[Emit]

10. Thank you much! n/t

[UofAWildcatJoanne]

3. HA! That's funny!

Just the fact that they're even bringing that topic up just shows one thing: back then, they were caught with their pants down and they knew that if another election went by where votes were tampered with, then we would be out for massive investigations...same reason Rummy isn't the D.S. anymore. Fear of investigation...IMO...

[Lex]

5. For one thing, In 2000, the Supreme Court stole it for Bush

by inserting themselves into the matter in the first place.

[autorank]

6. Gore won by .5 million votes. .150 million valid votes were thrown out.

It's al there - the 50k registered voters thrown off in the 'felon' purge with a data tape from the Texas Secretary of State. Over 100 thousand ballots, mostly in minority precincts, were tossed as 'spoiled.' Then Ohio, no need there. We have an AG in Ohio who wants to investiagate and new evidence in the form of preserved ballots.

Want to know why 2006 was such trouble for them. The "sanction' was withdrawn:

Teardown: The Mainstream Media Turns on Bush

That should clear up any freeper fantasies about fair elections in 2000, 2002, 2004, & 2005.

The issue is on the table, it's been supported by the right and the left as a problem. Election fraud is part of our history. Why wouldn't they use it? No good reason emerges from that question.

[Marlie]

7. Let's look at it this way

We would have REALLY won by a landslide if they didn't mess around this year.
I still think we should hound our representative to allow for paper trail on
all the voting machines. Vote, get your receipt,look it over and if it's OK
drop it in a box at the polling place and if ever a doubt, there's your recount.

[papau]

9. Funny - your paper trail voting procedure is how they vote in Venezuela!

Seems Only leftist folks must not trust the corporations!

[Cleita]

16. Actually, it's normal accounting procedure. Each transaction

must have a source document, in this case the ballot. Imagine if you rang up sales on a cash register and there was no accompanying tape in the register. You would not know if the amount of money in the register was the correct amount if you couldn't balance the paper money, coin and credit card slips against the tape or tapes that record the sales. You would never know the correct amount that was collected. This makes it very easy to steal and not get caught.

[devilgrrl]

11. So many voted for Democrats in 2006 that it cancelled out the fraud.

I still think that votes were stolen or not counted and that those votes were for democrats as well.

[Cleita]

12. I think it's the reverse.

It proves they were stolen because this time there were too many eyes watching them and they couldn't rig key elections without getting caught like Ohio for instance. Apparently, there seems to have been attempts in Florida, another key state, but they have been caught and are being investigated.

[porphyrian]

13. You wouldn't want them to break character now, would you?

That character being "delusional and stupid."

[Hippo_Tron]

14. It's evidence for the case that 2004 wasn't stolen, but it says nothing about 2000

[NewYorkerfromMass]

15. Here. I looked at this in 2004

I did a bit of studying of 2004 returns vs. 2000 in terms of the presidential race in several states, and I'll repost here:

In light of assumptions of fraud in Florida and Ohio, I thought I'd take a quick look at the vote totals in 3 uncontested, non-battleground, non-swing, "safe" Kerry states. A simple comparison of 2000 to 2004 Bush totals shows the following:

................... ...... 2004..... 2000
Massachusetts 1,067,163 878,502 (21.5% Bush increase)
Rhode Island ..... 161,654 130,555 (23.8%)
Delaware .......... 171,660 137,288 (25%)!!!

You might attribute the high Mass and RI votes to anti-Kerry voters who know him and simply hate him, but the Delaware number is mind numbing.
These percentages also, unfortunately, agree with the Bush popular vote total of 62 million, which would be a 23% increase over his 50.5 million in 2000.
So it appears that Bush somehow, actually, really got all of these new voters this time.

Also, Bush's percent share increased in every state but a few, Vermont being one of them.
The 3 listed here are:
Mass: 32.5% in 2000 to 37%.
RI 31.9 to 38.9
DE 41.9 to 46.2

So basically what happened was that between scaring people that the terrorists were going to kill us all and only the GOP could stop it, and Rove cranking up the GOTV mahcine big time, Bush actually got a hell of a lot more people to vote for him in 2004.

[gollygee]

17. Someone doesn't know what the word "prove" means

It is certainly possible to steal two elections and then not steal an election. Just like a bank robber can rob two banks, and then not rob a third.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

18. I personally think that they probably stole votes this time around but so many

people came out to vote against them, they didn't succeed.

Look towards VA. I have a feeling that Allen is be dissuaded from a recount because it will open up a can of the proverbial worms.

[Kerrytravelers]

19. We simply monitored closer this time than ever before.

The slightest hint of voting irregularities and we were all over it. The media was covering this- or at least they were on my tv.

Denial and delusion is just too much for some to overcome. I mean, did they think we would sit around for decades not doing anything? Duh.

[American Jesus]

20. The second quote is true enough

Poppy Bush has reasserted himself as the undisputed head of the Bush Crime Family, and Gates is definitely his appointee. Don't be surprised if Cheney is next to go. Poppy has to save the Bush Crime Family's role as leaders of the Republican party (as they have been since the Eisenhower administration) and right now, things aren't looking good for them. Iraq or otherwise.

[Emit]

22. Thanks for bringing attention to that part

Regardless of the outcome of the election -- and, don't get me wrong, I'm elated with the results -- my fear is that, in essence, it may have mattered little to them who won, because, for example, now with Poppy Bush/Gates and this Baker-Hamilton commission that Bush* keeps referring to, Bush* still might govern largely through executive orders (with Poppy and his people behind the scenes) rather than working with Congress on legislation. And, let's not foget how many signing statements have occured -- time will tell what he does there with future legislation.

Jeesh, I hope I'm just being paranoid and our win really will make a big difference to restore the balance. I just don't trust these guys at all. Something feels unsettled still. Bush & Co. have worked fast and furiously these last few years to attain their executive power grab while they had the majority -- could it be that they are now in a position that being in the minority still will not prevent them from continuing with whatever nefarious goal they may have had all along? Rove didn't seem too shaken by the results of this election.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

21. Depends what you mean by 'stolen'

I think since 2000 there has been voter suppression, intimidation and infamous tampering with the electoral register. These factors certainly were enough to steal the election in 2000 with a little help from the SCOTUS.

In 2004, electronic voting was seen as a major culprit. The difference between the exit polls and the actual official vote was large and this was seen as evidence of voter fraud. However most of the larger differences between exit polls and the actual results occurred in areas which did not use Diebold machines and were often Blue States. This points to a major methodology problem in polling, indicative of respondents' disinclination of telling pollsters they were planning to vote republican.

However those other unethical methods were in operation in 2004 as they were in 2000. Although whether they were enough to actually stop Kerry from winning the popular vote is up to debate and unlikely in my opinion, although the possibility of its high rôle in Ohio is more likely. The Democratic Party ran a bad bad campaign and our candidate didn't perform very well (despite probably making a good President). The media was hostile to the Democrats and was not willing to go against the incumbent party during wartime for fear of being labelled "unpatriotic" or heaven-forbid "liberal."

[Kerrytravelers]

23. And yet, there is this story...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061109/ap_on_el_ho/florida_recount

[Kerrytravelers]

24. Here is some interesting info.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2647434