It's weird, but I think this might be all the revenge I need

[EarlG]

After all these years and all the electoral disappointments beginning with the stolen election of 2000, you'd think that I'd want to see Bush impeached, or, failing that, stripped naked and forced to ride backwards on a donkey round the streets of Washington D.C.

And yet, I almost think this is just as good. Bush's hubris has has ended in utter humilation, and not just for the president but for the entire GOP. "The Architect" Karl Rove has maneuvered a president with a 90% approval rating and a party with solid House and Senate majorities to an embarassing defeat in just five short years.

I watched Bush's press conference today and he appeared broken and confused. He seemed to think he could joke his way out of it. He came across exactly like the out-of-touch buffoon that the majority of Americans apparently now view him as.

For a couple of weeks DUers have been wondering why Bush seemed so confident going into this election, that there was some kind of sinister October surprise waiting to pop out of Rove's smear machine. I won't lie, I was worried about it myself. Remember "THE math?" But it occurs to me now that Bush's approach to this election must have been the same as his approach to the invasion of Iraq - he accepted only the best-case scenarios, the rosiest intelligence, and when the house of cards collapsed around him he was left scratching his head and wondering what went wrong.

I'm curious to know if Bush's post-Republican-majority plan is as good as his post-Iraq-invasion plan. If so, it could be a tough two years for the president.

Even Rush Limbaugh has cut and run, saying that he's glad he won't have to "carry water" for the administraton any more. Now that Rush has abandoned Bush, who does he have left? So right now I'm happy enough that Bush is going to take his rightful place as the worst, most unpopular president in the nation's history.

Don't get me wrong - despite all the talk of bipartisanship there will certainly be investigatons and the shit hasn't even reached the fan yet, so there's plenty of time for me to change my opinion on this. In fact, it's probably just the post-election glow talking, but as someone who has daily suffered the insult that is the Bush regime, I'm feeling pretty done with that guy. Now I want to see the Dems govern wisely, clean up the mess that the Republicans have left behind, and get the country back on track. There's a lot of work to be done.

Mind you, if they get a spare five minutes to impeach Bush, I'm not going to stand in their way :)

[DeepBlueC]

1. Well said

I am in complete agreement.

[grytpype]

2. There's no one defending him now.

We'll see in the next few weeks just how bad things are, but he is finished.

I think they announced Rummy's resignation today just to knock the Dems out of the headlines. They had to make some kind of a move to stay even marginally relevant, and this was the only move they could make.

And things are just going to get worse, there are a lot of people lining up to talk about the horrible things Bush has been doing, and these hearings are not going to be in a basement. We run the show now.

[The Magistrate]

3. We Are Only At The Appetizer Course, Sir

It is a long way till the last sip of dessert wine....

"Revenge is a dish best served cold."

[NanceGreggs]

21. ... and what will The Decider be having for dessert ...

... tonight, sir? Would you prefer a large helping of Crow, or the Humble Pie?

[opihimoimoi]

70. Yup...this is only zee incipien. We will relish zee main courses

and in zee fini..we will sip cognac and smoke zeegars....and Laugh, smile, sing...

[yvr girl]

4. Bravo

I haven't suffered in the same way - I'm a neighbour, not a resident - but there is a certain satisfaction in knowing that Bush is going to be the lamest of ducks.

(And very well said.)

[slybacon9]

5. the cool thing is, we can do all that cleaning AND still have time for investigations...

we're THAT good!

[file83]

16. Good point.

[Imagevision]

59. If Bush doesn't play ball with Pelosi, then let freedom ring baby and make

public all the illegalities the Bush Administration is truly guilty of since being empowered.

The Dubai ports/deal sale has only been swept under the rug (for small example)

[DesEtoiles]

6. it's surreal

[EFerrari]

7. Myself, I'd like to see John Conyers get a meeting room

at street level for just about anything he'd like to do. :)

[No DUplicitous DUpe]

8. Revenge? Sounds like you wanted Justice.

and as you said, "the shit hasn't even reached the fan yet"

stay tuned..

[enigmatic]

9. W's presidency is publically humiliated right now

And for someone so ignorantly narcissistic as W is, it's about the worst thing to in his mind to have happen to him.

I want him to go to jail for a number of reasons but I think for W the humiliation (and rage) of having Poppy Bush have to step in and bail W out once again, well, that's good times:)

[DoYouEverWonder]

49. I'm starting to be glad that Poppy

has lived long enough to humiliate his own son. Dimson must be seething. I bet Turd Blossom looks like a battered wife this morning.

[Lautremont]

10. I know how you feel.

There were times I'd have settled for nothing less than the full Mussolini treatment, but this election was just so satisfying that I feel an equanimity - and, after that press conference, even a bit of pity - for the farter-in-chief. It's hard for dissatisfaction to intrude on such intense satisfaction, I guess, juat as you don't wish for lemon merengue pie while you're eating chocolate cake.

Like you, however, I suspect this will pass; probably shortly after the very next time I see that smirking, bloodveined face.

[LSK]

11. get your attitude readjustment here

Bush Says 'America Loses' Under Democrats
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/30/AR2006103000530.html

Bush: Democrat Win Is Terrorist Win
http://www.nysun.com/article/42560

Bush: Democrats More Dangerous Than Terrorists
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgTDqvG3Trs&mode=related&search=

:hi:

[AlCzervik]

12. i don't need revenge but i'm not ready to take the high road just yet.

[Mind_your_head]

13. REMEMBER...A lot of what happened in the last 6 years HAPPENED

because the folks responsible for/behind the Iran-Contra affair were never prosecuted and held responsible PROPERLY (30? years ago).

If we don't impeach, hold these folks responsible (with proper "measures").....they will AGAIN rise their ugly (ideological) heads in another 20, 30, 50, ?? years.

From Iran-Contra to what has happened in the last 6 years, NONE of that was indescretion, or 'stupidity' or "going up the learning curve".....‘All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing’

Evil must be dealt with. Period. And, we the people ~ in this day and age today ~ must deal with it PROPERLY.

It's would not be revenge, it would be justice!

Peace,
M_Y_H

[JeffR]

19. Not revenge, justice

That should be the rallying cry and the guiding principle. Very elegantly said.

[EarlG]

Very good point

Worth remembering.

[OneBlueSky]

24. very true . . . but since impeachment proceedings will literally consume . . .

the government and the nation for a year or more, might it not be a better idea to let Bush serve out his term while accumulating evidence, and then prosecute the whole bunch AFTER they've left office? . . .

I bow to no one in my hatred of BushCo and all they stand for, but there's just SO-O-O-O-O-O much that needs doing that will never get done if we're tied up with impeachment stuff . . .

much as I would LOVE to see it happen, the truth is that impeachment would probably be counterproductive . . . i.e. it would prevent us from building a positive record of achievement -- and from saving the country from the BushCo excesses, both those already in law and those in their pipeline . . . (which, thankfully, we can now clog) . . .

no reason we can't prosecute after they're out of office . . . it's going to take that long to assemble the evidence and build the case anyhow (despite Conyers' excellent beginning), and there are much more crucial issues that demand our time and energy right now . . . cleaning up their mess is going to be a massive undertaking . . .

[EFerrari]

36. There are two problems with that argument. One, no sitting

president is going to allow the prosecution of a former president for obvious reasons.

And two, you're putting yourself above the law when you say "we" need to save this country from Bush excesses in any venue other than via the law. Is that your call to make? Or, any politicians', for that matter? If it is, we may no longer live under the rule of law.

And, it may be that we don't. Similarly if you put a Democratic "positive record of achievement" above prosecuting criminals, you are making a political calculation but not necessarily a lawful one and you are choosing, like the current administration, political advantage over public service.

[DoYouEverWonder]

50. I don't think we'll need to go through an impeachment again

Between the Plame, Abramoff, Halliburton investigations indictments of Bush and Cheney are very likely. I think Bush will go the way of Nixon and resign. Bush is a cut and runner, not a fighter.

[TahitiNut]

34. Absolutely!

Impeach. Indict. Imprison. (Rinse. Repeat.)

[malaise]

48. Couldn't say it better

If these men are not removed from all positions of power they will regroup and continue to terrorize the planet.

[annabanana]

60. I wish I could nominate this post.

We have to use our memories, and keep our own catalogues. It is clear that America's media cannot be trusted with the job.

[hippiechick]

65. .. and one of the main Iran-Contra folks is now slithering back into power ...

POPPY

... and with him, JAB III, and now Gates. And how many other "advisors" we don't know about yet?
It's going to be Bush I running things from behind the scenes - just like the Reagan years all over again - in an attempt to "salvage" Dimson.

[file83]

14. I say, skip "Impeachment" - let's wait and try him for "War Crimes" in 2 years.

Impeachment might be counterproductive, if it even worked. We only have 2 years to show this country how the Dems get shit done - and there are many swing voters that want to see POSTIVE stuff happen (although, I'd argue that Impeaching Bush is "positive").

[NanceGreggs]

15. I hear ya!

For a man to whom nothing else matters but his alleged 'legacy', to be seen now as some kind of hero, and to be honoured in future as the black sheep of the family who finally accomplished something of value, the humiliation of seeing those dreams dashed is almost revenge enough.

Note I said almost, because being "stripped naked and forced to ride backwards on a donkey round the streets of Washington D.C." still has a delicious ring to it!

[alittlelark]

17. I understand the need for revenge.

These last 6+/- years have been a hideous cancer on our Nation.


I try to think that the majority of those that supported this monster were delusional whack jobs.... no logical thought required or appreciated.

The US was certainly in a propaganda matrix.... let's just hope the sane ones exit unscathed.



As for the politicos involved - they KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING.... Saddam's sentence is too light.

[Old and In the Way]

18. If he were guilty of buffoonery, I'd agree with you.

If it were a bj from an intern, I'd say, "what's the point?".

But 1000's died because he ignored (on purpose?) warnings of impending attacks prior to 9/11....if he had done anything to try to avert them, I'd be willing to accept the failure...but he did nothing.

Then he lied about the causus belli and started an elective war that has killed 100's of thousands. He didn't have to invade, he could have waited and let the inspectors do their jobs. But there were political and financial considerations that were in his interests, not our national interests .

Because of these circumstances, I have to hold him to the highest standard of the law. Why? Because, if we give him a pass on this, what signal are we sending to future presidential megalomaniacs? Do we really want to be the citizens that history will record as being the one's that accepted this atrocity by our government? I take no perverse delight in this...but justice has to be served.

[EFerrari]

22. 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Katrina, Palestine, Lebanon, Israel

Gitmo, torture, rendition, secret prisons, round ups.

We don't even know how many lives this felon is responsible for ending.

/oops

[EarlG]

23. I guess I meant what I said when I used the word "revenge"

as opposed to "justice." I wasn't trying to say that Bush shouldn't be held accountable for the shit he's put the world through for the past 6 years. My post was more about my own need to feel some kind of revenge. Skinner and I started DU because we were so angry about the 2000 election, and that anger kept us going for a long time. But after what happened yesterday, and watching what's happening to Bush right now, I feel like something of a weight has been lifted. He should absolutely be investigated and held accountable, I'm just saying that the results of yesterday's elections have sort of fulfilled my own personal desire for revenge, if you see what I mean.

[Lautremont]

25. Maybe now you feel fulfilled w/r/t the 2000 election,

and now all the rest of it - which you know well, being the chronicler of Republican idiocy - will burst up into your forebrain and ignite a new anger. Hopefully not all at once!

[EarlG]

29. Hey, I seriously doubt this feeling will last forever

I'll give it about a week :)

[Binka]

39. You've Got Post Coital Glow This To Shall Pass

Then you will want to fuck them AGAIN!:evilgrin:

[Mojorabbit]

27. I have felt like a huge weight has been lifted

off me all day. I had not realized how much anger and frustration I have been feeling all these years. I have hope again.

[Old and In the Way]

32. I gotcha.......and I do understand your point in that light.

Funny, I feel the same way...I'm quite happy to know that this little man's legacy will set the gold standard of incompetency. The really bad news for dimbulb is that he lives in a time of modern technology. All of his shining moments have been recorded for posterity in living color. No other President will ever match his record of complete failure. 50 years from now there will be a course on American history that compares Clinton to Bush....and they'll marvel at how we traded a competent and capable statesman for a man who was obviously in over his head.

[Robeson]

45. I agree....

...and I don't really see any other way around it. Justice - and history - must be served.

[Floogeldy]

20. I'm way more cynical.

I think they knew all along that they would only have a 6 - 8 year window to dump the treasury into the hands of corporations and it is still happening at the rate of $11 million an hour, in Iraq. They got what they wanted and I want them to pay for it, dearly. They don't care.

But I do.

[Mind_your_head]

28. Yes, they DID get what they wanted.....and still are getting what they want....

there are never any "repurcussions"/no penalty (or not much) .... EVER! (think of it!!!!)

(Makes one almost want to become a republican political hack if it weren't for the reasonably d*mn good conscience's that our parents/teachers/nuns/priests/neighbors/et al once beat into us, doesn't it?) I mean, why not?

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

26. You know what I don't like about horror-thriller-chiller movies?

The bad guy dies. We all see him die. The good guys know he's dead.

And then BOO! he pops up in the next scene, more horrible and deadly than before.

And the good guys kill him again. And he comes back again. And so on.

Failing and bailing is George Bush's lifelong M.O. But he has always comes back. Bolstered by his name and fame, the shit just rolls right off him.

But even if he can't come back from this, the Hydra that he is part of will keep moving ahead without him. Like the Essenes, who are said to have put forth one candidate for Messiah after another until Jesus Christ filled the bill, the Bush backers will turn their attention to identifying the next would-be despot who can rule on their behalf.

I think making a good example of this one will help discourage future attempts...at least for a while.

[CJCRANE]

51. It has seemed like that

over the last few years.

But right now we're in a feel-good movie where the bully gets his just desserts in the last reel.

[Lexingtonian]

30. I think

we'll see him and his Party just fade away over the next couple of months. The People is simply finished with the bunch.

That press conference was interesting for what it had and what it didn't have. We had a fellow there whose power has bled out and he actually seemed relieved by it all. He was just the frat president again.

Inauguration Day will be interesting. I think by that point the national GOP will be fragmented and fatalistic and out of energy, and the political center won't even be interested in them anymore.

I don't hold any deep anger either, at this point. The aggregation of power in the Bush crew's hands has melted away, power has diffused back into Congress and the judiciary and The People again. It feels like we're living in a democracy again- messy, pushy, but vibrant. A national politics that revolves around enhancing life again, not the aura and dealing out of death.

We still have our fundamental partisan difference to settle- our side is with the 14th Amendment, theirs is still all about preventing its implementation and enforcement. We have the work of justice to do, of achieving due, fair, and equal treatment for all. We also have the work of mercy to do, which is to live in the spirit of giving due, fair, and equal treatment.

[SeattleGirl]

31. Well said, EarlG!

I agree with you. The Dems have a hell of a lot of work to do that, in my opinion, is more important in the short term than impeachment -- but yeah, if they can find five minutes to do it, I'm not standing in their way either.

[TheBaldyMan]

33. The number of dead GIs and Iraqis suggests that a war crimes tribunal is better

The fortunate son will have to face a lot worse than impeachment in the years to come. He and all the other leaders that dragged their nations into a needless set of conflicts should be put on trial for war crimes and crimes against peace. This would seem to me to be the least the world could reasonably expect.

I think that there are more important tasks that require urgent attention but Milosevic and his cronies found out that they can only delay the inevitable. So it should be for the Bush cabal.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. EarlG, I remember reading your Top 10 that you wrote the week before the 2002 elections

I had joined DU after that point but I found it while browsing through the top 10 archives. For those of you who don't remember this, here's what you wrote...

"Since the inauguration of George W. Bush, we have chronicled over 900 cases of conservative idiocy. So all we have to say this week is: get out there and vote Democratic on Tuesday. Bring your friends, bring your neighbors, get to the polls and punch a straight Democratic ticket. Because let's face it - we're always going to have conservatives to make fun of every Monday. But they don't have to be running this country, and they don't have to be leading us all down a slippery slope of no-holds-barred pan-American conservative idiocy. So read this list, think about the specter of a Republican grand slam, and then get out there and help your local candidates, help get out the vote, and maybe come Wednesday morning we can all feel a little better about the direction this country is heading. Here's to a Democratic victory on November 5!"

Well it didn't go so well for us in 2002, but four years later we did wake up on Wednesday morning feeling a hell of a lot better about the direction this country is going in. On Monday we will have conservatives to make fun of but they won't be running the country anymore. Now we will be able to laugh at them without having to sigh because we know how much they are ruining the country. Last night was a great night for America.

[AntiFascist]

37. I'm so glad you feel better now, but this is not about how you or I feel...

it is not about revenge or about making Bush suffer. Many of us are way, way beyond that...we have seen something far worse happening to our system, something eroding and corrupting it from inside. It is time to make things right and to get to the bottom of it. Yes, bipartisanship is a great thing and we should strive for it, but don't forget that there were a fair number of Republicans helping us out in this election and who are also counted among the true patriots who want, and perhaps demand, that justice be carried through. Justice is never about revenge, any good judge should tell you that.

[puebloknot]

38. Post-election Musing

Hello,EarlG.

I haven't posted here a lot. I've done a tremendous amount of reading here (every day), and have posted a few comments here and there. This is a rather contentious place, and it takes a bit of nerve to jump into an argument as a new arrival, but I think the spirited exchanges here are very healthy -- one might even say "democratic."

I think I understand your point that this election is so satisfying that you might just be willing to be magnanimous and forget about impeachment. I'm also aware that a rush to impeachment could make us newly-empowered Dems look like we don't know how to find the high road. I just keep thinking about all our young people who have given, and will still give, their lives in service to a lie that we were too impotent, until now, to expose and obliterate.

I'm thinking tonight of Lincoln's address at Gettysburg:

"With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow and his orphan...to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."

There is much talk among the Democrats, especially coming from Nancy Pelosi, but also from Howard Dean, about healing the nation, about bipartisan cooperation. I think that our new leaders need to be constantly reminded that they serve at the behest of We the People, and that before healing can occur, the wound must be cleaned. Nancy Pelosi's frequent comments that "impeachment is off the table" seem a bit imperious to me.

I simply think that we must be careful not to assume that thoughtful people who strongly favor impeachment (though they may be called upon to exercise patience) are necessarily motivated by revenge. Yes, investigations must come first, and criminal proceedings may prove to be more effective than impeachment alone, but our Constitution (which I trust isn't really dead) gives us impeachment as a means of reigning in leaders who put themselves above our laws. We should not fail to take this legal step just because we assume in advance that it can't succeed. We need to get it on the record. Who would have said on November 6 that we would take back the House *and* the Senate?

Around 3,000 of our young men and women are lost to the Neocon lie about Iraq, as well as untold numbers of Iraqis. It would be the most terrible injustice to sweep their sacrifice under the nation's rug, and just move on, in bipartisan lockstep with the perpetrators of one of America's most heinous crimes. We do not have a right to be too tired to prosecute their murderers.

I'm not willing to give George a pass, no matter that he *has* been publicly humiliated. It's *not* enough! Unenlightened though he may be, I'll wager George Bush could be found legally competent to stand in a public docket and answer for his crimes. To say that he has been sufficiently embarrassed and brought to heel is in line with those who think it is appropriate to send pedophile priests off to a retreat, while their victims are left to suffer alone. We can have sympathy for the offending priests, but society must hold them accountable for their crimes and make it impossible for them to offend again. We have a whole nation which has been traumatized endlessly by this rogue administration. And now the whole world is watching to see if we really meant business when we took steps to rid ourselves of them on November 7. They have suffered, too.

Cindy Sheehan has just been arrested again. I doubt she's in a mood to just move on, and assume we've nicked Dubya's hubris in the bud. We're all tired, but we turn our collective backs on GW, the Neocons and the Theocons at our own peril. Cleaning up their mess is a bit like cleaning up toxic waste!

I have personally lived with daily anger for a long time about the descent of my country into fascism. I'm soul-weary of it all. I need to take a brief respite, and then start again. I realize that your post was written from a more light-hearted perspective than the one from which I'm responding, and I don't wish to rain on your joy, especially after all your hard work to make this victory happen. I imagine your message was posted in that spirit.

Sincerely.....

[marions ghost]

40. I have learned the hard way that

what you say is true: "Before healing can occur, the wound must be cleaned."

So often in this culture, "moving on" takes precedence over the hard work of revisiting the scene of the crime and rooting out the trouble at the base. In fact, we must do both at the same time. We have a responsibility to present and future generations to ensure greater protection from a rogue administration, as you called it.

We have lived the tragic result of not demanding more accountability in government these last few years. So we were vulnerable to the most ruthless gang of pirates ever to hijack the ship of state. If we do not check them in terms they clearly understand, they WILL just bide their time and do it again. They never really learn. They do not feel the sting of conscience, only anger at being thwarted (which they always see as temporary). There are plenty of twisted Roves, Bushes, Cheneys, Rummys and their willing "waterboys" (apt image from Flush) waiting in the wings. Not to mention corrupt corporate executives controlling every aspect of our lives. America and the world cannot tolerate these predators. They suck the life out of their victims.

Thank you for a wise and thoughtful post.

[puebloknot]

75. And thank you...

...for hearing me and sharing your own thoughts.

I've spent a lot of time over the last six years (more than that, actually, because I started seeing the dark shadows when they started picking on Clinton)talking to myself and my thankfully-awake daughter about how similar everything has been to Germany in the '30s. Friends, even a close Israeli friend who, I thought, surely must see what I see, have let me know I need to get a life, to get out more, to stop being quite so melodramatic.

Perhaps I am obsessed, but I lived in Germany, post-war, with my soldier father, who fought at Normandy and the Battle of the Bulge, and had a chance to observe the ordinary German citizens who were said to have allowed Hitler to take power. Now I am being asked by friends outside of the U.S. why we Americans are allowing this same kind of thing to happen here!

What has happened here is that we did not "clean the wound" way back then, after WWII. The Nuremberg Tribunals accomplished some surface sanitation, but the seeds of a new repression were allowed to spread and germinate. We're seeing that in our own government today!

It has occurred to me that Nancy Pelosi is in a possibly uncomfortable position in that her calling strongly for impeachment of both Bush and Cheney (it would be a fool's mission to do one without the other) would also be a call for her own ascendancy to the office of President of the United States! We must *support* her in this possible discomfort by making clear that she will have to take that risk. She can't be allowed to become a "unitary" speaker, delivering proclamations without the consent of the governed. I do not at this point suggest that that is her intention. I'm just feeling cautious about her.

[July]

46. Wonderful, thoughtful words.

Would you consider sending them to Nancy Pelosi?

I agree with your view that the people will be watching Democratic leaders, looking for positive action that shows our democracy has been restored.

As you point out, there is so much to do, and so much that Bush and his reckless minions must answer for. If we don't "cleanse the wound" -- as we failed to do in 2000, we will pay even more than we have already.

[puebloknot]

73. Thank you for your support

I was a little hesitant to put my toe in this water. You've helped me.

I keep remembering the Committees of Correspondence from the era when this nation was being born. These days, we have the Internet, but many wise people have said it's better to write a heartfelt personal letter and stick a stamp on it. Particularly since if we are not in a given district, many congresspersons won't accept e-mail.

Jane Fonda (love her or hate her) has said that sending personal letters is more effective than faxing or e-mail. I am going to make it my spiritual/political practice from now on to start sending out letters, and to post what I have sent on my own blog (www.TheRoadNowTaken.blogspot.com) which will be up very shortly. And I want to be more active here.

I worked on the Kucinich for President campaign (my first political activity) and learned a lot from that experience. Sometimes, we're just preaching to the converted in venues like this one, but we all need the support from that. What I feel is so important is to try to get our message out, beyond the borders of "we who already know." I'm not talking about "reaching out" to people who are beyond redemption (excuse my negativity), or watering down our own strongly-held truths, but finding a way to be sure we know whereof we speak (which is how DU is a help), and, with integrity, simply send a wave of truth out into the dark places in our country. The People have shown, on November 7, that they have a hunger for truth and honesty.

I am going to write to Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean, for starters, and I think that all of us who are awake and concerned need to do more than post at DU or our other favorite venues. We don't need to give that up. No, no, no! But the people we've just elected need to hear from us very, very frequently. We can all re-learn the fine art of writing a personal letter (eloquence is not required; passion is) and not letting up until we see change.

I've been incubating the above blog for some time, and you've inspired me to go ahead with it. I'll start with the sentiments I've posted here, to which you've responded.

The pen is mightier than the sword (of tyranny)!

[Jacobin]

76. Excellent post

Well said. Its kinda funny about the impeachment thing. My lifelong friend is a libertarian and he is the one champing at the bit more than anyone hoping Bush gets impeached because of his utter disregard for the bill of rights and getting us entangled in Iraq.

Peace. I hope you post more often.

[puebloknot]

77. Thank you!

I appreciate your comments. And I think critics of we who favor impeachment need to understand that seeing our country go through the embarrassment of having to bring down a criminal regime is not something greatly to be wished for. On the other hand, the world is waiting to see whether we have the character to clean up our own mess.

Growing up, I heard often about the character deficiencies of the German and Japanese people who *let it happen* in their respective countries. Now we seem to have arrived at the other side of the mirror.

I plan to post here more often. And I made a decision about three minutes ago to which you can bear witness; to wit:

It was UnderstandingLife who brought me to DU months ago, and who picked out my name, "Pueblo Knot," because of a project we were working on with a group here, and because he felt it was prudent to protect my identity.

He has just announced his real identity in another thread (a thread about impeachment by H20 Man), and I'm going to follow suit. I've never liked "handles," although I realize in some cases they are necessary. Personally, I don't want to cower in fear over what some of these right-wing nuts might try to do. I think they are paper dragons, and that November 7 helped to prove that. So.....

I am Judy James Barrett. I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico with my artist/dancer/editor daughter, who is so like-minded and so passionate about taking back our country that it gives me pleasure every day to talk with her. I work as an editor/trainer in the court reporting field, but my real love is writing/history/art. As an army brat, I saw a lot of the world as a child, from Korea to Germany, and both coasts of the U.S.

My family history says that we (The James Family) owned a plantation right next door to Monticello. Three of my ancestors were burned out by General Cornwallis in the Revolutionary War. I've got a dog in this fight, and I'm not going to cower under the shadow of the likes of George Bush and his tin soldiers, his lies, and his fear-mongering. I want George Bush and his cronies to enjoy just as many -- more -- sleepless nights and worried projections about their futures as I have experienced over the last six-plus years. But I want them all impeached because the Constitution says it should be so -- not because of personal revenge motives.

[understandinglife]

81. Hi, my friend.

Thank you.


BE AMERICA. ---

[symbolman]

41. I want REALITY back

I want to know that when someone says something they MEAN It. That they are not trying to screw everybody six ways from Sunday. I want the KILLING STOPPED. I want the kids educated. I want the Fairness Doctrine reinstated. I want Veterans to get the benefits they so seriously NEED after serving for whatever reason was thrust upon them.

I'd like to see the War Profitteering Act reinstated, reanimated retroactively, Halliburton, Bechtel, some defense companies INVESTIGATED Thoroughly, and if it's warranted to have ALL OF THEIR PROFITS RETURNED to the Treasury.

I think THEY alone owe us Billions and Billions of dollars that could be used right here to fund schools, health care, and for FILLING Holes in our Roads Instead of making NEW HOLES in PEOPLE, ANYWHERE.

I'd like to see Bush frog marched into the Hague, and have him sit in a suicide proof room to think about all the people he senselessly murdered for whatever reason, ego, greed, whatever, and then after a fair trial, be told that Justice has been served and he is to be stripped Naked, and forced to go to Iraq and bury each and every body left with a SPOON until he himself gives up the ghost.

After that his name is to be stricken, along with Rove, Rummy, Cheney, etc from ALL HISTORY BOOKS.

And I want HIM OUT of my sock drawer and off my extension Phone :)

To me that IS Justice.

But you're right, the GLOW feels so damn good, and the ultimate revenge is to Live Well and in good health, knowing that YOUR Karma is clean and that guy is doomed to 10,000 reincarnations as the scum on your shower stall, or as a cockroach :)

Thanks EarlG, and Skinner and Elad, for keeping us all SANE during this period, THAT was the greatest gift of ALL during these trying times, and I mean it with all my heart, for giving us a place where the Creativity FLOWED and I was able personally to GROW with any talent I possess.

You've given new LIVES to many people and touched more souls in a positive way than Bush could ever imagine, and in that way YOUR greatness has shown.

Warmest Regards to you all,

Best,

Symbolman

[hfojvt]

42. He caved on Rummy pretty quick

but I am betting he still governs like the arrogant d*ckhead he is. I expect alot of vetoes, unless Congressional Republicans are scared enough to break ranks. For as many incumbents who went down, they oughta be scared. Who's next in 2008? or 2010? Sam Brownback - Sebelius has got a boot with your name on it!! And those boots were made for walking.
Coleman? Repent and switch parties now, or start packing. If 100,000 troops are still in Iraq by 2008 because of your obstructionism, then we will pick up another 5 senate seats, 20 house seats, and the Presidency.

Can we run to the press with that word for every veto and every Republican party-line vote? Or will our party suddenly get blamed for the failure to solve Iraq or bring down gas prices and the likely recession? Will our people stand up and demand a half-way decent SCOTUS pick if, God forbid, another one falls into their lap? I think they should make a list of acceptable moderate conservative judges and draw a line in the sand if the pick is not on that list. Can we research judges here?

[Hugin]

52. True, it was amazing how fast he threw Rummy under that bus.

Really inspires loyalty... Now, doesn't it?

[hfojvt]

71. I'm not sure Rummy cares

He probably stepped up and offered to be the scapegoat. It's the best way to continue their policies. Take away the controversial character who draws so much fire and quietly continue his legacy. It's not like Rumsfeld doesn't have the option of writing a book or getting a seven figure job at a defense contractor.

Some of us were speculating that Bush would provide jobs for his water carriers like Ryun who went down to defeat. My thought was that he has more unemployed water carriers than he has available jobs, but the corporate world will probably provide - since they were the ones really getting the water. Ryun will probably get a good job at Koch industries.

[dmosh42]

43. Well said....

For a while, I'm sure many of us thought we were alone in what we saw as a danger to our country. So now we have somewhat of a vindication. I still find it scary that so many of the elections were even close, so we will always need to be wary of those amongst the population who had that rosy view of things.

[Sapphocrat]

44. Let me think about this for a moment.

OK, I've thought about it.

Mmm, nope. Not enough for me. This is a man (and a party) who has literally ruined my life, in numerous, very measurable ways. While I firmly believe that prevention is far more valuable than punishment, what's done is done, and there's no way to turn back the clock -- or regain what I have lost, financially, personally, and in innumerable intangible ways (e.g., somehow I'm not quite the sparkly optimist I once was) over these past six years.

And while nothing could ever make the Boy King understand or experience genuine remorse for what he's done, his is the that rare situation in which I believe "making an example" may do some good down the line.

I want him impeached, I want him indicted, and I want him imprisoned. The last won't happen -- but the first two could.

And what about kicking a man when he's down, broken, humiliated? I'd like to say I don't feel the need for revenge, but that would be a lie. Of course a big part of me wants him to experience the way my life has been nearly destroyed throughout the entire course of this nightmare.

But, honestly, my primary motivator is that I'd like to make him an example for the rest of his ilk that would happily abuse their power at my expense. That is the best deterrent I can see for the future.

And, yeah, of course, there's the revenge factor. Of course there is.

Earl, Earl, you're just having a moment of liberal icks here. Now, stop that. I'd hate to think you'd gone all soft, while I've gone all hard.
:rofl:

[hayu_lol]

47. Yeah Earl...justice instead of revenge...

however, that said, would you mind if we drew and quartered Rove and his machine? LOL!

On the other hand, we could round 'em all up, load them on a spacecraft, and let them be the first humans on Mars...a free one-way ticket.

[treestar]

53. * still holds the presidency

Remember that when the freepers criticize the Democrats' "governing." The Democrats have not been handed the power the Repukes had for the past two years. For the next two years that will be the case. Don't try to bite off more than can be "chewn" (rhymes with "screwn").

[sendero]

54. I agree..

.... I can get pretty wound up and say some pretty harsh things, but all I really want is for the damage to be undone as well as possible.

I only thought that Impeachment was a viable action for a short time. It would just divide the country and have nothing other that symbolic value. Let the history that the Reps were willing to impeach a good president over nothing, and the Dems did the right thing for the country.

I would like to see actual, lawful justice for the prosecution of this disastrous war. Justice yes, revenge no, investigations yes, witch-hunts no.

[AnnInLa]

55. Revenge is vastly underrated

My desire for revenge has been so constant for 6 years, that I don't think a couple of days of seeing him humiliated will do it for me. I want to see Cheney, Rove, Mehlman, Bartlett, and many many others humiliated. I want to see them embarrassed, incoherent, squirming, depressed and fearful. And, I want to see the repuke party experience this for 6 years. After 6 years of total frustration on their part, maybe I will feel that I can let go of the desire for revenge. When I see the repuke party totally in disarray, and the vaunted Conservative Movement in shambles, I will feel a little vindicated.

I want them to suffer for more than just a day, I want them to suffer for a long, long time.....I can't help it.

[Zech Marquis]

56. i feel such a heay weighthas been lifted off my shoulders

Tuesday morning I woke up with a real good, but cautious feeling that something wonderful was going to happen for America. When I voted that afternoon, it was like,"there you go Zech, now sit back and enjoy the show" :-) Tuesday night as the first scumbags like Santorum were shown the door, I felt better. In fact I don't know how I was able to sleep period! And to be honest, i really wasn't able to, I could FEEL the changes taking place--my feet, my hands, everything was buzzing :bounce: I got out of bed yesterday morning,and the House was under democrat control--YESSS!!!! AND, the Senate was within reach too! The local bitch Thlma Drake barely hung on to her seat, which was a shock as in how much ground the freeps have lost here.

At my job,which is like a moment or 2 from that other freep hvane Chesapeake :puke:, all the dinosaurs a,d righteous ones were out after voting, but this time, something told me don't worry Zech, we'll get 'em tonight...Wednesday morning almost NONE of them bothered to show their faces :evilgrin: And this was BEFORE rummy got canned and Macaca got owned. Now revenge? No. there's too much work to do as in repairing all the damage from the past 6 years. Let the reptitles scream, kick, and holler, WE won, and it's our time to set things right :-)

[Maeve]

57. I just want the REAL grown-ups back in charge!

Accountability, responsibility (fiscal and personal), thoughtful action...no more school-yard bullying, dirty tricks, spoils-system treatment of the treasury.

Okay, I also want Rove humiliated in public..or in jail. So I want a touch of revenge, so sue me. :patriot:

[mdmc]

58. This year was the best year for me

nothing good on the local level, but everything on the national level:toast:

[JerseygirlCT]

61. I agree. Especially with this:

"Now I want to see the Dems govern wisely, clean up the mess that the Republicans have left behind, and get the country back on track. There's a lot of work to be done."

We must. It's roll up the sleeves time. If we don't show the country that we can make positive changes, we're out on our butts come 2008. There's little time, but we asked for the job, and now we have to do it.

I think we can.

[Hubert Flottz]

62. I did not vote for revenge...

I voted for "Oversight" (Justice)

I'll never forget just how nice the leaders of the GOP played though!

[G_j]

63. I'm not into revenge or even impeachment at this point

I know Bush and others are guilty of various crimes including war crimes. I trust that someday
after he leaves office he will have to answer to justice. Of course, investigations need to happen, and soon.

btw, thank you guys!

[Coexist]

64. Yes, its hard to be bitter in this magnificent afterglow

but then I read this and that bubble popped.

I am enjoying watching them all crawl out from beneath their collapsd house of cards, true. However, they are now embarassed and pissed, and have already begun their stealth campaign for '08.

Lets hope the Dems begin to steer this country in the right direction, and make a case for themselves by then. The people will follow the prosperity.

[Imperialism Inc.]

66. I'm with ya.

The new congress should tackle Pelosi's 100 hour plan, heed Dean's suggestion to secure the voting process, and then hold hearings. Not hearings for revenge or even justice, but hearings on corruption. Iraq contractor corruption. Only after all that should they consider going after the pre-war intel and the domestic spying and such. If that leads to impeachment then fine, but it should not be a goal from the start.

[Blue_Roses]

67. great post!

and well said. As I watched Bush yesterday, I actually felt sorry for him. Maybe that's just how I am. But to see this man totally knocked off his feet and I agree with you: "he accepted only the best-case scenarios, the rosiest intelligence, and when the house of cards collapsed around him he was left scratching his head and wondering what went wrong."

When you let everyone do everything for you, it's hard to know what the hell is actually going on. This is Bush. He's always had poppy to bail him out. I just find it sad. Hell, when he was first approached about running for President, he and Karen Hughes laughed out loud.

Now like you, if the investigations reveal more, my sentiment might change, but for now I just feel sorry for him because I think it's got to be hard to face the fact that you were just used as a puppet--and it's hitting him in the face now.

[grizmaster]

68. bush might do more for our cause

being a poster boy for everything that's wrong with the republicans for the next two years than if he's dumped in an impeachment.


...but then again, as you say if they have a few spare minutes I might just make some popcorn to enjoy the show.

[NewJeffCT]

69. It's not even 5 years, more like 2

Rove has taken a party that held a commanding position in the Senate of 55-44-1 to one that is now 49-51(2) in only 2 short years. That is a huge turnaround in such a short time for such high level positions - especially when they have way more money than us.

[Lex]

72. Great post, EarlG.

I agree completely.

:thumbsup:

[Cleetus]

74. Thank you

Very well said, my friend.

[Zhade]

78. Is the official line of this site's administrators that we cannot support impeachment?

Or is this just your personal feelings?

[havocmom]

79. Hmm, not how I read the OP at all

If we're not with impeachment, are we necessarily with the terrorists?

Gads, that seems somewhat familar.

[Zhade]

80. It's not my take either.

But after having been told (by a mod) that merely criticizing lieberman is "working against a Dem majority" (never mind that my lone voice can't possibly cause the majority any harm) - and doing so is a ban-worthy offense - I'm being extra careful.

But I noticed that I missed the "five minutes to impeach" line first time around, so it's moot now anyway.