Now that we control both houses, are we still Underground?

[Clovis Sangrail]

?

[gully]

1. Yes, it's part of our roots.

neeeeeeeeext.

[Xenotime]

2. We are mainstream, baby! Dem prez in 08 and we will be on top of the hill

[wisteria]

3. Yeah, we aren't the DLC n/t

[havocmom]

4. Elections not certified. GOP can get paws on the machines

I think we are still the underground ;)

[porphyrian]

5. At least as much as "alternative" music is alternative after the 90s. - n/t

[bryant69]

6. The people running Congress aern't us

They are certainly better than what we have had, and they are certainly closer to us, but they are going to be more moderate than I would like to see.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

7. We've still got two branches of government to go.

[InvisibleTouch]

8. I think we'll still be an Underground...

...because the opinions here are still likely to be more intense and at a bit of a different angle than the average "Dem on the street." Which is a good thing and an important influence to have, IMO, as long as we don't start tearing down our newly elected people each time they say something we don't 100% agree with, or don't vote exactly and precisely the way we would have wanted them to, each and every time. In the big picture, we still all share the same ideals and values.

[Nimrod2005]

9. No, we are now official main stream, middle of the road...etc.

Can you think of a new name?

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

10. I like it down here.

It's degrees cooler. ;-)

[NewJeffCT]

11. Until progressives get a major media presence

we're Underground.

And, I don't mean a few spots here & there.

I want Air America (or similar) to be on 50,000 watt stations across the country... I want liberal newspapers with circulation like the Washington Times & NY Post... I want liberal counterparts to Fox & CNN...

and, i want all talk shows to be balanced between LW and RW.

[hlthe2b]

12. We are progressive Dem internet activists---we'll never be

mainstream or "ABOVE Ground." We are the force, a strong force working in the background. So, yes it will always be appropriate for us to be DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND.

[gollygee]

13. We're the more progressive side of the Democratic Party

so we are still somewhat underground I suppose. Most of the democrats in office aren't as progressive as I am anyway, by a long shot.

[Peace Patriot]

14. Well, if by "we" you mean the SEVENTY PERCENT of the American people

who oppose the war on Iraq and other Bush policies, then I think you'd have to say we're still the "underground." The new Congress doesn't even come close to representing the majority of Americans, EVEN WITH the 30-some Dem majority in the House. I think where the "underground" really surfaced was in the huge Absentee Ballot vote--ordinary citizens distrusting the election system and BOYCOTTING the machines. And it is there that we should put our energies: mobilizing this huge voter rebellion to implement a backdoor strategy to restore transparent vote counting. Mark my words: The new Congress is NOT going to ban TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code in the electronic voting machines and central tabulators--code that is owned and controlled by rightwing corporations, and that is so secret that not even our secretaries of state are permitted to review it. They may mandate a "paper trail"--but with the "trade secret" code still in place, and woefully inadequate auditing of elections, a "paper trail" is a sop; it is not real reform. (And even the BEST bill--HR 550--already has a loophole in it, that can and will be interpreted to permit "trade secret" code in the central tabulators. HR 550 also has inadequate auditing provisions.) There is just too much corruption on these billions of dollars in e-voting contracts, affecting both Dem and Repub election officials and legislators, to expect a still unrepresentative, largely corporate-controlled Congress to take any truly effective measures against it. And even if the House does so, the Senate will water it down or kill it.*

I think restoring transparent vote counting is going to be up to the people, and it will have to be a campaign in LOCAL jurisdictions--which I think is doable. Up til now, the election reform movement has been awesome at raising public consciousness, but it has proposed no STRATEGY to achieve our goal. Here's a strategy: Mobilize this huge block of distrustful voters--all the AB voters (AB voting got up to 50% and 60% of the vote in many places)--to put pressure on LOCAL election officials, to, a) HAND COUNT the AB votes, and b) POST the results BEFORE any electronics are used. These simple, common sense demands--the clear wish of the AB voters--will go some way toward creating a paper ballot system BY DEFAULT. We can then try to extend these policies to the Optiscan ballots (hand count them, post the results BEFORE the electronic tally), and lobby for AB voting rights in the states that don't now permit AB voting. (30 states currently permit voting by AB.) I think what will happen, as we start succeeding at getting the AB votes properly counted, is that even more people will vote by AB. And as awareness gets even higher, only fools will be voting on the machines--and, the demand for AB voting in the other states will become clamorous.

Just as AB voters have tried to find a way around the rigged electronics, we activists need to find a way around the massive corruption that so quickly entrenched these egregiously non-transparent, corporate-controlled voting machines and central tabulators all over the country. THAT has been the problem all along. Billions of dollars in contracts, filthy lavish lobbying, and the heady POWER of secret voting "counting" have all contributed to this fast-tracked entrenchment (--all quite deliberately engineered by Tom Delay and Bob Ney--abetted by corporatist 'Democrats' like Christopher Dodd--in the Anthrax Congress.) This "backdoor" strategy to achieve transparent vote counting looks like the only way to do it. It is, in any case, a STRATEGY, where none existed before.

Until we have restored transparent vote counting, the "underground" agenda of the MAJORITY of the American people cannot and will be not be implemented, and will remain very much marginalized by our political leadership and of course by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies. That agenda is: 1) the complete and immediate withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq, and turning that disaster over to the U.N.; 2) SERIOUS investigation of the war crimes and unconscionable thievery of the Bush Junta and associated war profiteers, and prosecutions and impeachment of guilty parties; 3) measures to prevent any such thing from ever happening again (curtailment of the "unitary executive"; cutting the military budget back to a true defensive posture--no more wars of choice!); 4) RECOMPENSE--getting our money back, or as much of it as possible; and 5) a complete re-write of the tax structure to favor the poor and the middle class, and to properly tax the rich and the corporate, and re-regulation (re-asserting public control over vital resources and busting corporate monopolies, with corporate NEWS monopolies being the first to get busted).

The probability of any of these measures being taken by the new Congress is a measure of just how truly representative this Congress is. And this situation--our current "choice" between Corporate Rule or Fascist Rule--is not going to start changing until we start being able to SEE our votes counted. Transparent elections is the most fundamental and necessary condition of democracy. We don't have that now.

It's interesting that the corporate news monopoly "talking point" today is that the American people chose "conservative Democrats." We can see the corporate fallback position in progress with this "talking point." And whatever lies and marginalizations it is based upon, it IS true, in some important respects--except that it was never a free choice. The deck was already stacked--with true leftist (majorityist) voices already weeded out, through the filthy campaign money system, corporate control of the news media, and direct intervention via Diebold/ES&S and brethren. And we can't do much about the filthy campaign money system or corporate control of the news media until we restore the fundamental condition for peaceful change: transparent elections.



-----

*(ALL BUT TWO Democratic Senators in the Anthrax Congress voted FOR the so-called "Help America Vote Act" (HAVA '02). Think about THAT. And they were no more ignorant of what HAVA was going to do to our election system than they were ignorant of the consequences of giving George Bush the power to invade Iraq. We STILL have a Senate in which only 25% of the politicians represent the views and interests of the MAJORITY of Americans. I therefore predict that the Senate will kill any real election reform. At least 75% of them WANT rightwing corporations to have SECRET control of vote counting--and too many House members are also in that camp, for real reform to succeed. Note: The only two Senate Dem "no" votes against HAVA were Hillary Clinton and Charles Schumer--I would guess not because they oppose Corporate control of our elections, but more likely because of New Yorkers' attachment to their old, reliable, and virtually unriggable lever voting machines. NY has resisted the change to electronics. Clinton and Schumer, who have to get elected in real vote counts, perhaps didn't want to offend NY voters?)

[Dob Bole]

15. No...that's only 1/3 of the federal government

n/t