We are NOT going to get a 2/3 majority in the Senate to impeach Bush

[Caution]

Seriously. There is absolutely no point to all the impeachment talk. It would be political suicide for republican senators to vote for impeachment and without the support of 15 of them this simply won't happen.

Investigate, publicize and criticize the administration and Bush but impeachment is off the table not because it isn't the right thing to do, it's off the table because it is impossible.

We could in fact send the matter to the Senate with a majority vote in the House, but I'd rather see real, serious investigations into criminal behavior followed by a Hague war crimes indictment handed down against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice.

[gfnrob]

1. delete.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

2. What about bringing back the Special Prosecutor statute?

Any talk in that direction? Personally, I don't care whether Bush gets impeached or not. I just want the truth about 9/11, Iraq, and the rest of the mess to come out. I want ALL of it to come out.

[Caution]

10. I completely agree here.

Appoint special prosecutors for a bunch of this stuff. Congressional corruption, lies leading up to war, manipulation of intelligence, vote stealing, Katrina incompetence, war profiteering, etc

[originalpckelly]

27. Remember Clinton? We don't want it to come back in the same old way...

we'd have to really think it over again and make sure that it cannot be used to hound a guy who gets a blowjob.

[klook]

3. Same situation as when the Republicans impeached Clinton. (n/t)

[Caution]

12. Yep. And in the end that made Clinton MORE popular.

Let Bush wallow in his incompetence, investigate the incompetence, maybe even censure him, but impeachment accomplishes absolutely nothing since we cannot convict.

[babylonsister]

4. Once facts concerning culpability of getting us into an illegal war

combined with the disgusting misuse of federal funds to feed the Halliburtons out there, minds could change as could opinions and votes. Never say never.

[Caution]

13. The amount of time required for this simply isnt there.

By the time everything is out there will be less than a year of Bush left, leaving very little time to get impeachment in real process, with Republicans knowing that if they impeach Bush that their own constituency will annhilate them in primary elections. If we had lost the Presidency in 04 but had taken the House and Senate then we might have had a chance to impeach the bastard.

[babylonsister]

17. Yes, you're right about the time constraints. Then we can hope

enough dirt is revealed that he resigns in disgrace-I could live with that.

[Caution]

20. That would be nice wouldn't it? I doubt it happens, he'll try to hang on to the very end

Either way he IS already a disgrace and his legacy is one of the immolation of his own party, the weakening of the US militarily and diplomatically, the potential bakrupting of the nation, and the deaths of 10,000 Americans in 9/11, Katrina and Iraq.

History will not judge him well.

[Mojorabbit]

5. Depends on what the investigations

come up with. If there is enough that is damning,it would be political suicide for the republicans for it not to happen. Time will tell.

[MethuenProgressive]

6. How can they not side with the Truth?

If the investigations provide enough proof, the Republicans will *have* to side with the Dems - it's be political suicide for them *not* to.

[Caution]

16. You are joking right? You;ve seen how often they have sided with the truth to date right?

Their constituents, particularly those who vote in the primaries don't care about about the truth (they don't even believe the truth, they only believe what right-wing radio tells them to believe). They'll slaughter any Republican Senator who even looks like he might vote for impeachment.

[HereSince1628]

7. That's a prediction on something that is unknown. Just sayin...

We don't know what the public would feel about information hidden from them for years if it's revealled.

We need to allow the Democrats re-establish oversight, checks on executive power and balance to radicalness. And then let's see where we are.

[napi21]

8. That depends on what info is discovered in the hearings.

I wasn't paying a LOT of attention when Nixon was Prez, but when sooo much bad stuff came out in those hearings, Nixon's Pub friendssent to him and said "Mr. President, we can't protect you any longer, even our own party people have turned against you."

Let the hearings take their course. If even hlf of what we've all suspected did happen and can be proven, impeachment will take care of itself.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

15. exactly right. nt

[Caution]

18. There isn't enough time for it.

All of that happened almost immediately after the start of his second term. Republicans knew they couldn't have 4 full years of investigations into his various crimes so they forced him to resign. With Bush, by the time things really got rolling, Republicans will be facing primary challenges from the right and their base will simply kill anyone who even looks like he might vote in favor of conviction.

[napi21]

21. I disagree. It didn't take years for Watergate like it did for Clinton.

With Clinton, every road they tried came up empty, so theyy had to keep searching. With Shrub, there are so many roads to take, all the lawyers have todo is choose the ones easiest to prove! It really shouldn't take more than 2-3 months.

[Caution]

25. You forget, they control the SCOTUS and at every turn they will appeal to

the SCOTUS. They will work as hard as possible to drag out giving up any documents, answering any subpoenas or submitting to any oversight whatsoever. It's going to be ugly even with impeachment off the table.

[napi21]

33. You're probably right. Lets just see how good all these damn

lawyers who've gotten themselves elected really are!

[rinsd]

39. "ones easiest to prove!"

Therein lies the rub.

Remember how Plame worked out? That was an open and shut case in the minds of many here...that dragged for 2 years with unsatisfying results.

[GOTV]

9. You are right .... for now.

We should have some investigations, after we've achieved some solid legislative work, and see where that takes us. We may be able to make a case that will convince the public that impeachment is the right thing to do, and then the senate may follow.

[William769]

11. I'm going to take a wait and see attitude.

[Drix]

14. Republican Senators

Your reasoning is so pre-10/7.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. Are you kidding me?

When the Senate repukes hear of the corruption, the laws broken, the scams, the money laundering, the lies and LIES and LIES ....they will want to get the Bush noose from around their necks so fast your head will spin. THE PEOPLE will DEMAND an Impeachment and if the Senate ignores THE PEOPLE, THE PEOPLE will just vote their asses out of office! We did it once, we'll do it again.

The Hague works for me too. I'll buy the orange jumpsuits and hand cuffs.

[Caution]

22. While I agree you are forgetting that 35% of the electorate are completely nuts

They only listen to right-wing radio and Fox News, heck many of them think Fox News is part of the "librul media"

They will eat alive any Republican Senator intent on voting for impeachment conviction in the primaries which season will be upon us well before we can get to the point of impeachment. There are an awful lot of Republican Senate seats up in 2008.

I'd love to see it don't get me wrong, but I think that we are better off just exposing the stuff rather than going after impeachment. Take the high road "we aren't looking for revenge here, just for oversight"

The more the moderate republicans, the fiscal conservatives, the evangelicals and the independents know about the war crimes committed, the massive pork barrel spending, the abuse of ethics and the poor, the real result of those tax cuts and the bankruptcy bill, the more that the Republican Party will splinter. The 2000 Green defection will look like a joke compared to the defection to the libertarian, constitution and other conservative parties, not to mention the complete abandonment of the GOP by the independent voters.

[in_cog_ni_to]

37. I can go for investigations and exposing the corruption

as long as they are then sent to THE HAGUE. I can live with that.:)

[babylonsister]

26. I think the Senate rethugs know full well what's been going on.

In fact, all the rethugs are complicit. Why else were they so quick to put the kibosh on any investigations for the past 3 years? Why muzzle men like Waxman and Conyers?

[in_cog_ni_to]

36. Oh, I know they know what's been going on...Abu Ghraib pictures/videos anyone?

Once it's been exposed to THE PEOPLE though...they will feign ignorance, run like hell and BEG for Impeachment....I can't wait to watch it.

[solara]

23. Investigation and indictment

Prosecution and punishment sounds a lot better to me than manufacturing a grandstand for * lies with an anemic slap on the wrist, which is what impeachment right now would accomplish.

Investigations will prove that he and his cabal have plenty to atone for and once he cannot hide behind executive privilege, he can be subpoened and tried for his war crimes. And while the investigations continue, the Dems come through with their promises and go forward with Pelosi's Plan, form a platform from which to run in '08 and America grows stronger.

No reason this can't -all -happen.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

24. Are you old enough to remember Watergate?

I don't remember having enough dems to impeach then, either.

[Caution]

31. And in the end he didn't get impeached. The timing was the big issue there

it happened very early in his second term. This is very late in Bush's second term and will be even later before there is enough evidence disseminated to the public for support to build enough that Republicans have no choice but to vote in favor of conviction, not to mention that they would be committing political suicide during the primaries if they even hinted at being in favor of impeachment.

[Xenotime]

28. Sounds like a cop out to me.

[ThomWV]

29. You Presume Removal From Office - How About If Impeachment Leads To Censure?

Remember, the impeachment takes place in the house, the Senate hears the trial and decides on the punishment. It does not have to be removal from office.

[Caution]

34. You don't need to impeach to censure. I say go for censure after investigations

no political fallout from impeachment if you go that route as well. There are just no good reasons to impeach other than to make those of us who have know for years how criminal this fucker really is to feel better.

But I for one already feel better. We've won back Congress, we stand a great chance at keeping it for another 10 years and we have a shot at the presidency in 08. Let the Hague deal with Bush and his criminal gang.

But investigate it all. Bring back the special prosecutors, bring it all out. If enough evidence can come out early enough maybe we could get the support required for impeachment but i seriously doubt we'll be able to get it all out until after we retake the White House.

[althecat]

30. Evidence is the key.... starting impeachment proceedings may flush out evidence....

OTOH... 13 of this crop of Democrat senators voted for the Military Commissions Act and nearly all of em voted for this ugly war.

[Individualist]

32. The House impeaches, the Senate convicts,

and a simple majority in the House is all that's needed to issue articles of impeachment. www.answers.com/topic/impeachment?method=5&linktext=

[Swamp Rat]

35. "No point to all the impeachment talk??" ... IMPEACH BUSH NOW!!!!

Bush said he will keep U.S. soldiers in Iraq until he leaves office!

WE OWE IT TO THEM TO SCREAM IMPEACHMENT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND WE IN NEW ORLEANS DEMAND JUSTICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

38. So what? Sometimes you do things because they're right.

Not because they're popular.

[pat_k]

40. Silence is complicity

And with her "pledge" Pelosi went went beyond complicity. She became an accessory after the fact when she bent over backwards to give the Fascists an unassailable argument -- i.e.,

"If we were destroying the Constitution, members of Congress, who are sworn to defend it, would be calling for our impeachment and removal. Not only are they NOT calling for impeachment, they are pledging NOT to impeach. With their pledge, we are exonerated of the charges coming from the "looney left."

The Congressional oath to uphold the Constitution is not an oath to win; it is an oath to fight -- to "support and defend."

To fulfill their oath they must be "on the look out" for threats (turning a "blind eye" is not an option). When they identify a threat, their First Duty is to notify us and tell us what they believe we must do to defend against it. (Not what they think we will do; not what they think they can do; not what they think other members of Congress might do. They have a duty to tell us what they personally believe the nation must do.)

Any member of Congress who sees the threat but won't speak up is enabling and empowering the attackers. No rationalization, whether it's the edict from their peers that "talk of impeachment is off limits," their fear of being snubbed at the next cocktail party, their fear of losing votes, or pronouncements that they "can win," excuses their dereliction.

The process doesn't start with Articles of Impeachment. It doesn't end with judgment in the Senate.

The process starts in the court of public opinion. The process ends with removal from office by resignation or by force through impeachment. Between those two points things can play out in an infinite number of ways. There is no way of knowing.

Their oath is an individual oath. Even if No Other member recognizes the threat, each member has a Personal Duty to act on their own judgment.

To fail to accuse criminals is to be complicit with them.

It doesn't matter if member of Congress doesn't think they can get the votes to convict in the Senate. It may never Get There. It doesn't matter if they think impeachment is "impossible," if they believe the Constitution is being harmed their oath to defend it demands that they tell us.

The cool thing about duty is that you just do it, come what may.

"Fiat justitia, ruat coelum"

"Let justice be done, though the heavens fall"

[savemefromdumbya]

41. there may not be any GOP left after they go to jail

pedophiles and fraudsters?