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sugapablo Donating Member (483 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:41 PM
Original message
Elderly harmonica player arrested for performing copyrighted songs at bar
As seen on /.

http://mdn.mainichi-msn.co.jp/national/news/20061109p2a00m0na018000c.html


A 73-year-old bar manager who illegally performed copyrighted tunes by the Beatles and other artists on the harmonica was arrested Thursday on suspicion of violating the Copyright Law, police said.

Arrested was Masami Toyoda, of Tokyo's Nerima-ku. He has reportedly admitted to the allegations against him.

Investigators accuse Toyoda of illegally performing 33 songs such as the Beatles' songs "Here, There and Everywhere" and "Yesterday," whose copyrights are managed by the Japanese Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers. He allegedly performed the songs on the harmonica with a female pianist at the bar he operated between August and September this year.

Officials said the society sought a provisional injunction against Toyoda in 2001 because he had repeatedly performed copyrighted songs in the past without permission, and the Tokyo District Court granted the injunction.



As a former drummer, this is infuriating. I know it's just one guy in Japan, but to even TRY to press charges for playing cover tunes in a bar! (I did mostly original music, but always threw a couple covers in for fun.)

Is it time for revolution yet?
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niyad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. how wonderful that the crime rate in tokyo is so low that police have time to
attend to such stupidities.
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Kagemusha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Well it's not downtown Bagdhad, that's for sure.
To be honest, I have no idea what the true crime rate is there but, it's certainly believed to be a much safer city than most.
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solara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. Just FYI
Edited on Thu Nov-09-06 12:48 PM by solara
Bar and club owners who have live music usually pay a fee to ASCAP and BMI for the right to allow any musicians who may play a cover. I am not sure what that fee is and it may vary according to the kind of entertainment the bar or club may have. I would imagine this arrangement extends world-wide. However, arresting someone seems like over-kill.
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. The last I heard in 1997, it was to the tune of $5000,00 in California n/t
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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. It depends on the venue
I ran a folk music venue in Miami and we had to deal with these assholes all the time. It didn't matter that we only presented people who played original music or traditional (copyright free) music.

They do base the fee on the income of the venue, so we paid the lowest possible amount, but we had to pay.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
21. so how does the money get back to the artist/writer?
if venues pay for a blanket license... is there someone who keeps track of which cover songs are played in order that the Rocky Eriksons of the world might get their due for their life's work...?

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DoYouEverWonder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. That's the problem
the big artists get rich and everyone else gets very little if anything at all.

They supposedly have some magic formulas to calculate who gets what.

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. "magic formula" = big dogs eat first (read: corporate rock STILL sucks)
i really really hate "the music industry."
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. I do too..
.. and trust me, if you "steal" a song you are a lot more likely to be taking the money out of the pocket of one of the moronic music industry players that have RUINED popular music than you are to be taking it out of an artist's pocket.

The artist gett JACK unless they sell a gazillion copies.

In my dream world (and it's already happening) the internet will replace the fuckhead A&R and promotions departments of the recording indusrty and artists will self publish and reap most of the profits from their endeavors and vision, as opposed to a bunch of blood-sucking leeches that wouldn't know music if it popped both their eardrums :)
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
37. This was a well known night-club in West Los Angeles
I do know how things are ran in Florida, but the RIAA can collect a fee once a year. What you are describing is harassment. That will not stand here in California.

Besides, the live entertainment industry was basically killed off here in Southern California starting in the eighties by Local Politicians (high sin tax, sobriety checks on the roads, responding to people complaining about the noise, and zoning laws), Ticket Master and others like them (this group of people made a game of over selling tickets which lead to overcrowding, riots and more extreme fire safety laws) and land owners who expect very high rents. Promoters basically gave up because of these barriers and others.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
39. I once worked on the BMI/ASCAP case
many years ago, when I was a paralegal. Lot's of fascinating stuff. Basically they have people watch tv, listen to the radio, go to bars and inspect juke boxes, and they take statistical samples (kinda like voting polls) and then make these giant statistical data bases of how much each and every song gets played in every venue. Then they divide the royalties from blanket licenses by percentages generated by their data bases.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
25. That sounds one hell of a lot like a cartel to me
Edited on Thu Nov-09-06 02:49 PM by kgfnally
"It didn't matter that we only presented people who played original music or traditional (copyright free) music.

They do base the fee on the income of the venue, so we paid the lowest possible amount, but we had to pay."

I am no longer going to treat with any mercy at all those content producers who would defend such a system. When they're demanding money "just because", it's time to throw their asses into the slammer and redefine just exactly what "a limited time" means for copyright.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it should be no more than ten years. If you can't make money off your works in that period of time, you probably don't deserve money for that work; if you are making money off it at the time of expiration, there's nothing that keeps you from selling it further.

This "author's life plus" bullshit really needs to end.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. gee were all your drinks and food free? or did you charge customers? nt
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iverglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. the apparent reason for the arrest
He wasn't arrested for infringing copyright -- he was arrested for failing to comply with a court order, i.e. the injunction obtained to prevent him from infringing copyright.

It would have been granted because he was a repeat and recalcitrant infringer; knew what he was doing, had been directed by the copyright society not to do it, didn't arrange for royalty payments when he did it ... there was nothing left to do but get an injunction to stop him doing it, which could then be enforced. Nonetheless, it could still be overkill. ;)

A buddy of mine who was a city councillor in a major Canadian city had a part-time job that involved sitting in bars listening to music, and writing down all the covers the entertainers played and submitting the list to the copyright society so they could follow up on royalty payments. Nice work if you can get it. (Oops, I may owe royalties on that line.)

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PeaceProgProsp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. In the US, copyright performance rights owners employ people
Edited on Thu Nov-09-06 12:49 PM by PeaceProgProsp
who go around to bars and make sure that people aren't violating copyright law (but it's not a criminal offense to violate copyright in performance rights). And therefore, just about every bar and public place which performs music whether live or radio or recorded music has a performance license.

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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. it's the venue's responsibility to procure the license in the US.. ??
i always thought that was the case... as per the little ASCAP stickers in the window...

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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Note to self;
only play original sets if I ever go to Japan...
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. My son's on tour in Japan later this month in Tokyo
for three nights and other Japanese cities (9) but he only plays original stuff. *whew*
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SoFlaJet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. with who crow?
band? solo?
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
40. Band,,, Sentai
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #7
34. I'm in Tokyo
Where's he playing?
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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. He's in Tokyo for three gigs plus other cities
Edited on Sat Nov-11-06 10:46 AM by thecrow
Like Kobe (sp?) Kyoto... he has 9 gigs altogether.
I really don't know where, but he's sort of an indie punk band.
You could look for "Sentai", that's him.

His website: www.myspace.com/sentai


Nov 18 2006 8:00P
Shinjuku Jam tokyo
Nov 19 2006 8:00P
Woody Niigata
Nov 20 2006 8:00P
Sandinista Yamagata
Nov 21 2006 8:00P
eM Seven Koiwa (tokyo)
Nov 22 2006 8:00P
Helluva Lounge Kobe
Nov 23 2006 8:00P
Kyoto University Of Art And Design Kyoto
Nov 24 2006 8:00P
ClubBL Nagoya
Nov 25 2006 8:00P
Shizuoka Spiral Mart Shizuoka
Nov 26 2006 8:00P
Shinjuku Motion Tokyo

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thecrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
6. Songs are for singing and playing
If the songwriters didn't intend them to be played/sung, they should STOP WRITING THEM and surely STOP SELLING THE COPYRIGHTS TO STUPID PEOPLE!

I know, it's not necessarily the songwriters per se but the businessmen who buy the copyrights and impose these ridiculous restrictions on the songs. Now if they caught a person printing CD's of the songs without a permit, that's what the resrictions are for, not singing and playing the songs (which is actually free advertising for them... idiots!)

This whole copyright business has to be fixed. I heard you could get in trouble for singing HAPPY BIRTHDAY, also a copyrighted song.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Two little old ladies wrote "Happy Birthday"
They're dead now, but the estate or whatever still gets the royalties. Any movie or tv show that plays the song has to list it in the credits at the end. I personally think that in this case, it's kind of funny.
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msmcghee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. That's silly.
Non entertainers for money - can sing any song they like at any time or place. The copyright protection provides an income stream for those who write songs. The costs for clubs to license the use on their premises is reasonable - or there would not be millions of clubs throughout the world buying those licenses. As I understand it bands and entertainers can join the musician's union and cover their license to sing covers that way. Whether a business buys the copyright from the writer or not - money ends up in the hands of the writer either way.
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C_eh_N_eh_D_eh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 12:56 PM
Response to Original message
8. RIAA executives have group orgasm.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. This is an ongoing saga in the USA too.
If you can get into the archives of banjo-l you'll find a huge number of posts and subsequent threads on the subject going back ages. It even affects occasions when a few guys get together to play session music. The problem is compounded by instances where seemingly traditional numbers have subsequently been copywrited - Elizabeth Cotton's Freight Train was an early example of that. Affects the UK too - it became an issue at a local folk club about 6 months ago which nearly forced it to close.
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BlueManDude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. can i still sing in the shower?
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
16. The songwriters can extend the copyright to everyone for free if they want to
Woody Guthrie did for "This Land is Your Land". If any artist chooses to protect his or her own material, I don't have a problem with that.
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Katzenjammer Donating Member (541 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. The problem is that too often it's the record companies that own the (c)
not the musician.

And of course Woody was special anyway.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. That's true!
But I guess I don't understand why the musician persisted in doing this after having been told it was illegal.
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Miss Chybil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. And don't forget you can't sing "Happy Birthday" in public, either... nt
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Lance_Boyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
20. Alarmist bullsh*t
I thought the "alarmist bullsh*t" tag was put out there at slashdot, as well, given the number of people tagging this "story" as a hoax. As thoughtful poster "pikine" put it on the original story...

1. This happened in Tokyo, Japan, not in America.
2. Back in 2001, the Japanese Society for Rights of Authors, Composers and Publishers brought Toyoda to court and obtained a restraining order that prohibited him from
playing a number of copyrighted songs in public.
3. Toyoda still repeatedly violated the court order, so he was finally arrested by the police.

The greedy-ass music owners pressed civil charges on initial discovery, in 2001. Mr. Toyado refused to cease the activities he was barred from continuing back in 2001, violating the injuntion won by greedy-ass music owners then. Now he gets arrested FOR VIOLATING THE INJUNCTION. I sympathize with his plight, but in the spirit of nonviolent resistance, Mr. Toyoda should accept the prescribed penalties for breaking the (unjust) law.

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. Maybe he was really, really bad.
Sheriff: "Oh, God. These poor people. We need to do something."

Deputy: "Want me to shoot him?"

Sheriff: "No, let's just arrest him and see if he needs medication."

Deputy: "What are we gonna charge him with?"

Sheriff: "Who knows. Well make something up on the way back to the police station. All I know is that if he plays "Yesterday" one more time I AM gonna shoot him."
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Chovexani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
26. Fuck that noise
I'm downloading several J-Rock albums as we speak and don't give a shit.

Call me a thief, I don't care. When they arrest old people for playing cover tunes in bars? Whatever, man.
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LeftHander Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
30. ASCAP and BMI require clubs to pay a license fee...
Around $300-500 per year if they have live music that plays copywritten material from ASCAP or BMI memebers.

They threaten litigation if the fee is not paid.
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aint_no_life_nowhere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. Enforcing that law here would kill the few remaining jazz players left
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
32. I'm gonna get taken to county lock-up for the weekend
I s'pose sooner or later I'm gonna get taken to county lock-up for the weekend because I like to hum Springsteen and Billy Joel tunes.

"Hey! Piano-man wanna-be... you got a permit to whistle Thunder Road? If not, I got a tazer with your name on it..."

Sheesh, this is crazy.
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Josh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
33. In play in a cover band here in Sydney -
and unless there's something no one is telling me, you're allowed to play whatever you want at a live venue.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-09-06 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
35. The original Japanese new article, if anyone's interested
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DemBones DemBones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
36. If you did original music, did you copyright it? And wouldn't you

want the royalties you deserve whenever your work is played? Surely you know songwriters/ musicians don't get huge royalty checks unless they make it really big, like the Beatles (and last I heard, Michael Jackson had bought the Beatles catalog.)

Obviously the surviving Beatles are not starving musicians but the music industry has ripped off musicians and songwriters for decades. Blatant opyright violation should be prosecuted.

Governments are more aggressive in prosecuting copyright violations than they once were. In the U.S., schoolteachers are not allowed to post students' drawings of Disney characters, Garfield, etc., on bulletin boards or classroom walls because of copyright laws.
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mrdmk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-10-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Your music is automatically copyrighted upon a live performance
You will need a record of that performance being given, people's recollections will do.

BTW: Ringo Starr did have financial problems from time to time. His friend, George Harrison bailed him out.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
42. Oh..
...but he was STEALING from the Beatles :sarcasm:

There are a lot of things wrong with how we codify and enforce copyright laws, it looks like it's even worse in Japan.
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