I kind of snapped on a soldier/customer tonight

[shadowknows69]

Feeling a little too empowered by the election I guess. I picked up a couple, husband was in the air force, and had to deliver them to a club they were hitting. They seemed a fairly liberal couple as the wife kept making comments about how she wanted to sleep with one of his co-workers (female) and they discussed stopping at the local gay/bi bar to find a girlfriend. Lucky bastard.

Anyhoo, I asked what he thought of Rummy getting the can and he didn't seem to indicate it mattered to him much. He did take the opportunity to say how he was dissapointed in the election results from Tuesday. I conceded I was quite happy being a Democrat. His wife popped in and said she was too and he was a Republican but she was a Dem.

"Opposites attract I guess. Now that the Democrats are taking over the economy is going to go back in the toilet"

Oh no he didn't. His wife even said something about not wanting to go there with her but I had to open my big mouth and cost my self a tip.

"Yeah the economy is doing just great."

"It is the Dow is up like crazy today"

"That's all well and good if you own a crapload of stock but some of us can't afford to play the market."

"Well the economy was finally recovering after the democrats got done destroying it"

Yes, the rage was building now

"Who has been in power for the last six years and run up our deficit? Let me put it this way. At the very beginning of this administration I had a highly prestigous corporate radio job in this city. Now I drive cab for a living. Not everyone's economy is doing so well."

The ride ends. The wife gives me pleasant goodbyes. No tip from hubby. I didn't mind.

[NMMNG]

1. I'm so sick of hearing about how the Dow is up

That's because all of those uber-rich f*cks who've benefitted from Chimpy's tax cuts are investing like crazy and making even more money (which is then eligible for tax breaks). The rest of us aren't getting Jack-Shit from the economy or the Dow. :banghead:

[Trajan]

2. The dow is up marginally ....

in 6 years, it has FINALLY topped the highest from 1999 ... and it is BARELY above that point now ....

The Dow is nothing to crow about: it should be HIGHER ....

[NMMNG]

8. Of course

But all I hear from the RWers is The Dow is up, the economy is grrrrreat!. They're so full of it it makes me ill.

[Lasher]

10. Then arm yourself with these facts for the next time

The stock market is not ‘surging’.

The S&P 500 reached its last all-time closing high of 1,527 on March 24, 2000 and has not since reached this benchmark. It was at 1,343 on January 22, 2001 when Bush II took office. It closed at 1,367 on November 2, 2006 – an annualized net gain of 0.3% during Junior's tenure. This has been the worst performance of any administration, going all the way back to Truman. Clinton did the best at 17.4% and Nixon’s performance was the worst (except for Bush II) at 0.6%.

http://www.forbes.com/strategies/2004/07/21/cx_da_0721presidents.html

The DOW Jones index of 30 industrial stocks is so narrowly focused that its performance is not an indicator of how the overall stock market is doing unless confirmed by other factors such as gains in the S&P 500. But since Republicans like to bring up the subject these days, let's take a look at how the DOW is actually doing.

The pre-Bush II all-time high was at 11,723 on January 14, 2000. It was at 10,578 when Bush took office. It didn't finally reach another all-time high until last month, when it closed at 11,727 on October 4. It closed on Friday October 20 at 12,011, which is an annualized growth of 2.5% during the Bush administration.

Under Bill Clinton, it was 15.9 percent.

Bush's dad: 9.8 percent.

Ronald Reagan: 11.3 percent.

These figures are public record.

The index also did better under Presidents Ford, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, Truman, Franklin D. Roosevelt and Calvin Coolidge. Much better.

Since World War I, the only presidents with a worse Dow Jones Industrials record than the incumbent were Herbert Hoover, Richard Nixon and Jimmy Carter.

http://www.blackenterprise.com/yb/ybopen.asp?section=ybem&story_id=99048945&ID=blackenterprise&p=0

[NMMNG]

11. Great stuff!

Thank you. :thumbsup:

[Lasher]

13. Thanks, Buffy.

Like you, I am greatly annoyed by the Republican lies about how the stock market is doing well. So I did some research to collect the information that I supplied to you. I have posted different versions of this here at DU, occasionally updating and improving on it.

All of the Republicans' claims are false. They have achieved nothing positive. All they do is cut taxes for rich people and start wars. They and their corporate news media claim over and over that Democrats, and not Republicans, are the party of big government (spending) but this is yet another lie.

The following is based on statistics that are from 1959 to present. Trust me, you gotta hit this link:

Federal spending (aka "big government"): It has gone up an average of about $50 billion a year under presidents of both parties. But that breaks down as $35 billion a year under Democratic presidents and $60 billion under Republicans. If you assume that it takes a year for a president's policies to take effect, Democrats have raised spending by $40 billion a year and Republicans by $55 billion.

Leaning over backward even farther, let's start our measurement in 1981, the date when many Republicans believe that life as we know it began. The result: Democrats still have a better record at smaller government. Republican presidents added more government spending for each year they served, whether you credit them with the actual years they served or with the year that followed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20059-2005Apr1.html

[elehhhhna]

16. The Iraq Reconstruction funds (Tax$$$) are also propping up the markets.

Google it. It's not a secret.

[sandnsea]

20. Globalized DOW

Never mention the DOW anymore without adding globalization or multi-national or interntional. The DOW can skyrocket with Americans eating rats. We're only 5% of the world's population. A strong Indian and Chinese economy means we don't matter at all. Americans better get a clue.

[Lasher]

24. Very good point, sandnsea.

There's really no such thing anymore as a US stock market. If you buy Coca-Cola stock, part of your earnings will depend on sales in Timbuktu. And another stock might be doing great since they moved all their factories to Central America and put thousands of Americans out of work.

[leftofthedial]

3. they are all deluded

this is the worst--and most fragile--economy of my (way too long) life.

[Selatius]

4. The next time somebody even fucking mentions the DOW, state this:

If you invested in the stock market in 2000, you would ONLY RECENTLY be in POSITIVE territory with respect to your investment.

Tell me: Is 0 percent return on a 6 year investment "good" to you? Does that sound like a "good economy"? If you think that's bad, try talking to people in the bottom 50 percent of the country, most of whom don't even own stock, much less dividend paying stocks. For them, things have been much worse.

[keopeli]

5. It was YOU who gave HIM the tip. Good of you to be honest with him. n/t

[SeattleGirl]

6. Shadow, I got one word for ya:

BRAVO!!!!! :applause: :applause: :applause:

[shadowknows69]

7. Thanks Seattle Girl

Its almost time to find a new career. I did actually apply for a radio sales job today which I won't get despite the fact that I'm probably the most qualified person in my city for it. Wish me luck anyway.

[SeattleGirl]

9. You got it, Shadow.

:hug:

[radfringe]

12. it's time

that "regular people" realize the gains in the stock market are not "TRICKLING DOWN"

A common myth is using the stock market as a gauge on the overall economy. The assumption being the better the stock market the better the economy. In the past this may be true, however under the bush-onomy - the pipes of the stock market are clogged.

the driving force behind any economy is the middle class. Based on sheer population numbers there are more people in the middle class than there is in the upper class.

On the whole - how many cars and big ticket items are bought by the middle class as opposed to the upper class?

If people don't have the money - they can't afford to buy. If they can't buy - businesses can't sell. If businesses can't sell - they don't make a profit. If they don't make a profit - the stockholders/owners don't get any money.

"a rising tide raises all boats - now it just raises the yatchs

[Hekate]

14. "Trickle down" has always meant "pissed on" to me since the first time I heard the phrase

Not elegant, to be sure, but Reagan and Bush the Elder had that affect on me.

This economy is only "good" for corporations and already-rich folks who have invested their money outside the US.

Everyone else is worried, and rightly so. 47 million Americans have no health care insurance despite being employed, and the rest of us know that we are one layoff or job change away from joining their ranks. Perhaps most people don't know for sure that a huge percentage of bankruptcies follow a catastrophic illness in the family -- but I think that deep down they suspect it, and it is true.

I can't marshall all those facts about the NYSE and the Dow, but I know kitchen-table economics.

Lou Dobbs -- our paleocon populist friend -- is absolutely right about the state of the middle class. Even those of us who are currently okay are worried.

Hekate

[radfringe]

15. same here

I referred to it as "TINKLED ON" to use a more polite phrasing.. ;) :evilgrin:

[Ilsa]

26. Trickle-down is the stuff running down the sides of the john when my kids pee.

Yeah, I have boys. I still can't understand how their aim can be that bad.

[Zodiak]

19. Let's not forget

that Bush reduced taxes on all dividends and capital gains. That is why there is no "trickle down" effect. The money is no longer party put into the public coffer, so it can't make it to student loans, assistance, prescription drugs, etc.

Not only does their trickle down theory not work, but they have changed the rules to make SURE it doesn't work.

Stock market money is dead-end money as far as helping out America in general.

[Akoto]

17. Bravo to you!

The truth hurts, but it has to be said.

We've entered into a time where blind loyalty is not on the budget. We can't afford to think like that anymore. Hell, I'd expect a soldier to know more than the average person, given that he's potentially sacrificing his life for those in power.

[Kerrytravelers]

18. If the economy is doing so well, he should have tipped you!

I bet it was more than his sour grapes!

[txindy]

21. The word "surplus" means nothing to him, it seems. Or it's been so long he's forgotten.

He's not too bright. But none of the wingnuts are, really. They parrot dogma very well, though, I'll give them that. :eyes:

[raccoon]

22. Glad you set him straight.

How many times do you hear on the news that ABC Company laid off X thousand people, and their stock went UP??

[stanwyck]

23. I think people voted their paycheck more than we realize

Yes, dissatisfaction with how Iraq has been handled is a major, possibly THE major concerns. And there is overall fatigue with the Abramnoff, Enron, Ney, Cunningham, etc. scandals. Plus, the Foley story.
But I think the Bush administration bungled their campaigning with too much emphasis on "how great" the economy is doing.
For the average American, the economy is NOT doing great. In fact, the average American has to spend more to have the same as what they had ten years ago. Healthcare costs more. Homes cost more. And pay has stagnated. Meanwhile, benefits are decreasing.
And crowing about the stock market is rather counter-productive. Ask a winger who uses this the stock market as a benchmark of the recovering economy how much money he/she has made lately on their stocks? If they're honest, they'll tell you: none.
But you know who has? The Bushies. The Halliburton/Brown-Root crowd.
You can fool some of the people all of the time (the 30% still in Bush's corner). But you can't fool all of the people all of the time.
And this election had more to do with the average American's sense of well-being about the economy than the right will admit.
Your guy still is hanging on to the idea that's he's going to be another Bushie with a fat portfolio. He's not.
But it's that carrot that the fatcats dangle in front of the susceptible that pulls in the wannabees.
You can fool some of the people all of the time.

[emulatorloo]

25. kick n/t