Shall we now play fair with those who refused to play fair?

[Philosoraptor]

That's what always pisses me off about Democrats, they are too nice sometimes. Too tolerant, too fair to those who have been extremely unfair and uncooperative for so long.

But I suppose we will take the high road, which is laudable, but the repubs NEVER did, and they never will either, we mustn't forget that, when they had Bill Clinton, impeachment and harassment was their number one priority.

I say we approach it with fairness, but with the good of the nation being job one, but let's not be too kind to these particular assholes, they are nasty, they don't play fair, they will fuck you every time, and they are extremely dangerous don't forget.

I'm pissed that the concept of impeachment has been hijacked by the repubs to mean nothing more than revenge for losing, they did it when it was totally unnecessary, and now we have a president who qualifies for impeachment more than any other in history will probably not be impeached, which is actually our duty as citizens.

Impeachment is there for a real reason, and it's not revenge.

[lvx35]

1. Its true, but there is a power in the high road too.

I mean, the main thing we all have to remember is how astoundingly the republicans FAILED at pretty much everything they did. Our kindly ways are much more effective at pretty much everything. And somebody has to keep the country from collapsing, its a dirty job, but somebody has got to do it! :)

[ixion]

2. playing fair with these schmucks is not advisable

for they will only use it to knock the dems off the top again.

Saying 'play fair' with rethugs is like saying it to a back-alley mugger. There is no 'fair' in their book, only weakness to exploit.

[Richard Steele]

3. Yes, we shall, as always, play FAIR.

Which is not the same as " making them happy".

I have no interest in REVENGE; only a RECKONING. "To everyone as they DESERVE."

Simple "fair play" will be VERY unpleasant for those who
DESERVE some serious consequences.

I pray only for the STRENGTH do do what is FAIR.

[flobee1]

4. I say we

work with them the same way they worked with us- just do what we say and everyone will be happy
Make our bills look like the answer to everyones prayers and dare Bush to veto them.


on impeachment-dont do it right out of the gate.
start investigating, start the hearings
start digging-that alone will cause some in the admin to resign
after all, rummy resigned with just a shift in power


punishment would be great, but the goal is to remove the bastards from power completely
Investigate!
show the American people what they have been hiding and 2008 will be easier

[izzie]

5. Yes as it never pays to creep into the sewer with the rats.

I will say that revenge can be so sweet in thought that one has to always fight it just to stay sane. I am an old women and let me tell you revenge is not helpful for your morals. It is a thing that does not last long and it builds back bone to fight it. Even when the 'sweet' part is nagging at you. Winning may be the thing but I think it is how you win. Just my point of view.

[Philosoraptor]

6. Our fairness will not be appreciated by them.

I agree, we should and will take the high road, Dems don't dig up dirt just for dirt's sake like they do, they are on constant attack, always looking for a weak spot to exploit, but then they ask for fair play when suddenly they are in the minority.

That's why we should impeach, not for revenge like they did to Bill, but because it is the right thing to do with bush.

[theHandpuppet]

15. I understand your passion about this, philosoraptor

But I think even more than "the right thing to do with bush" we need to do the right thing for the American people. Looking forward, as Pelosi said. There are so many issues in the political ICU right now that we've got our hands full just trying to undo the damage wreaked by BushCo. This is an angry country, a country in pain, a country betrayed. We need to right this ship -- full speed ahead for fair wages, health care, an end to this damnable war and making sure our vets are cared for, repairing diplomatic ties around the world, addressing global warming and reinvigorating American industry.... the list goes on and on. I'm not sure we can be truly fair to ourselves or the American people if we squander this opportunity and our energies on impeachment. And yes, I do believe we MUST take the high road. That's what we're supposed to be about. I don't want folks to have voted for Dems only to find out they act just like Republicans after all.

Anyway, you asked so that's the way I feel about this. Peace! :smoke:

[zanne]

16. They see fairness as weakness.

Believe me, they'll try to exploit it. I'm not saying we should be as despicable as they were, just very, very cautious about their motives ALL THE TIME.

[izzie]

20. I know you are right and frankly I just try not to think of revenge/weakness.

I do not always end up winning my self. It is to be strong to win the battle but it is a moral fight that I have had to work on my whole life. Lost it alot. I fear we would be more like the Middle East if we did not have this type of thinking and try to live by it in our national history. Just look at the end of WW2 next to WW1 if you do not see my point. Revenge, war and hate seem to make our problems and so it is an endless battle.

[pnwmom]

7. It's not just a question of playing fair, it's playing smart.

We don't have the 67 votes in the Senate we would need to convict Bush now. Do we want him to be able to say that he was impeached (indicted) and then found not guilty? Is that really going to help us?

A good prosecutor doesn't take a case to trial that she can't win. We're not there yet; we don't have the votes we would need in the Senate.

So we'll drain the swamp, see what's there, and then how see much time we have left and what else we have to do in that time. Once Bush finally stops stonewalling any investigations that we carry out, there may only be months remaining in his Presidency. Would it be worth it to spend those few months impeaching and convicting him?

I think most Americans would rather the Congress work on getting us out of Iraq and taking other positive action -- rather than just working to kick Bush out of the door a few months sooner.

[Philosoraptor]

8. I've given up on impeachment of bush, I agree, we don't need it.

But we do need to hold them all accountable for what they've done.

[pnwmom]

10. I think we should investigate them up the wazoo.

Drain the swamp, as Pelosi says. Then make Bush wallow in it.

There's more than one way to hold him accountable.

[Kiouni]

12. they'll be held accountable

probably not with a disgracful impeachment but after the chimp leaves office we will see the reprocussions of cause and effect.

[fasttense]

9. Before we get to the Impeachment, we need to do the investigation.

These repukes need to be held accountable. Their crimes must be exposed by thorough investigations. After the investigation, we will let the chips fall where they may. Do you believe a thorough investigation will not implicate the Vice President and his ties to Halliburton? How much the President knew and when did he know it is still unclear.

If the Democratic legislature does not investigate and take action after those investigations, they will be blamed in the 2008 elections for the mess that was left behind. But if they can point to people in jail, then they can say they accomplished something.

[Kiouni]

11. But what about all of the independent voters

that came over to our side. I want them to stay, the moderates of america by far comprise the larges swing voting demographic and we need to court them as such by taking the high road. As Howard Zinn would put it if we only do good how can anyone hate us? we need to work with them and take the high road.

[BelgianMadCow]

13. Fair? Sure. Fair and square on the jaw.

due process and all that first of course.

[lapfog_1]

14. It doesn't seem to buy us much

If we play nice, we are weak.

If we play dirty, then we are "taking advantage".

If there is Karma, then playing nice is the way to go (turn the other cheek and all that). But somtimes... OK, for me, lots of times... its "up against the wall, mofos"... sorry, it's just the way I feel sometimes.

[jody]

17. Play fair? Hate breeds more hate and destroys government. Sad that hate is being used to win

elections but compromise is absolutely critical to govern after one is elected.

Compromise is difficult when our nation is divided on several divisive, polarizing issues.

If we Dems sincerely believe we can make a difference solving world problems, e.g. Israel vs. Palestine, then it should be easy for us to work with Republicans to govern this great nation.

[rock]

18. We should play nice, not fair

All is fair in love and war, and this is war.

[Canuck Exile]

19. Exactly.....

We got 2 years and if we sit around being "nice" we will look
up and the repugs will be back...

Make no mistake about it ... this is a WAR ... the right knows this,
it's time WE realized it as well.

Having said that I don't believe that we should waste time on an
impeachment that has no chance of going anywhere UNLESS the coming
hearings provide unassailable evidence of criminal activity.

Canuck Exile :mad:

[newyawker99]

21. Hi Canuck Exile!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[samsingh]

22. no

[SmokingJacket]

23. If I wanted to cheat and lie, I'd be a Republican.

However, I don't think impeachment has anything to do with playing fair or not.

Actually I'm up in the air about the impeachment stuff. I agree that in a perfect world, the asshole ought to be impeached.

But it's far from perfect, and without a 2/3 majority it won't come to anything except to alienate a lot of people and make people feel sorry for Bush.

[warrens]

24. Screw them

Just push the bastards out of the way and do what we have to do. No one says play fair with them. Slash their staffs, refuse to share anything with them, let them see bills five minutes before the vote, etc.

For the non-bastards, like Lugar, treat them great. Reward sanity and good behavior and punish the thugs. No one said we have to be nice to the fuckwads. But the main accent should be getting something done, not picking fights with wingnuts.

[Coventina]

25. Not playing fair would come back to haunt us, just like it did the Republicans

Playing fair is the right thing to do.