Why the "Fighting Dems" didn't win. Tug of War

[PassingFair]

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w061106&s=franke-ruta111006

snip>

The defeat of Tammy Duckworth, a high-profile Iraq war veteran who ran for office in Illinois, has been fingered by netroots triumphalists as an example of poor candidate selection by the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee (DCCC) and its chair, Rahm Emanuel. She had faced and narrowly beaten a strong netroots-backed primary challenger in Illinois' 6th District, and, today, her race has become a focal point in the ongoing maneuvering between bloggers and establishment Democrats looking to parcel out credit for Tuesday's Democratic sweep....

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=w061106&s=franke-ruta111006

55 candidates fielded by the "genius" Emanuel. 6 won. And most of those were
in Pennsylvania, where Santorum guaranteed that a tree stump could run and win.

Reporting for duty, my ass.

War posturing is a LOSING strategy.


Sorry about the link, when I went back, it asked for registration, worth it, though
for the stats.....

[lcordero2]

1. 6 out of 55?

:rofl:

[bigtree]

4. the rest of the candidates were well served by the over $100 million he helped raise

for the party in the election.

[PassingFair]

6. He is SUPPOSED to raise money for the party.

That's his JOB.

Others raised money too.

The party is NOT beholden to his
corporate donors.

[bigtree]

8. he did a good job. that's the point. He kept parity with the republicans

the fact that he won is no more of a fluke that it would have been in 2004 when the fever was just as high to upset Bush.

The whining over some mistakes he made in the WINNING campaign for the House is ridiculous. The retrospective is good for future strategizing, but curiously unfair as a bludgeon against Emanuel in the face of the victory. This is sour grapes of the highest order, I suspect over Emanuel's Iraq stance. It stinks.

[PassingFair]

11. "the fact that he won"

There you go again.

"He" didn't win.

"He" is NOT the "DECIDER".

Get a clue.

Of the People. By the People. For the People.

The DLC is a TAXABLE entity. They are a think-tank,
not even a functioning part of the democratic party.

[bigtree]

13. yeah that word I put there is real damn important

BTW Rahm Emanuel has NEVER claimed sole credit, no matter how mwny times those words have been shoved down his throat.

[PassingFair]

15. Just MOST of it. n/t

He's "ever so 'umble"

[bigtree]

18. where, damit, has Emanuel taken 'most' of the credit?? This is a lie.

the loose quotes from that closed meeting that were reported without a standard, proper attribution in that WaPo article weren't proof. Where are the quotes?????

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

2. I'm curious...

do you have a cite for that number?

[Clark2008]

3. War posturing??

Most of the fighting Dems were FOR getting out of Iraq.

I'm not quite sure what you, or TNR means by this.

[PassingFair]

5. Running politically inexperienced vets

just for the sake of running vets.

It doesn't work as a vote getter.

[bigtree]

9. yeah, we should have ignored those Iraq vets who wanted to come back and save their fellow troops

by directly affecting the policy. :eyes:

[rinsd]

31. As opposed to the netroots running inexperienced candidates?

Are you just trying to stir up shit because your logic is baffling?

[DURHAM D]

7. Win or lose - all of the vets running as Dems helped

the party shake its image as anti-military and just a bunch of wusses.

I hope to see more of the same.

A lot of those (and other) Dem candidates are two cycle races. We knew that going in - hope for just as many vets in 2008 and even more wins.

[PassingFair]

14. All of our candidates running, in ALL states in this cycle...

not just the "viable" ones as determined by
the "DECIDERS" of our last, SEVERAL, LOSING
cycles, helped.

I do NOT disparage our vets, Durham. I didn't
like the way that viable candidates were literally
shoved out of the way, de-funded, threatened and
back-stabbed by their own party to run them in some
districts though.

[dysfunctional press]

10. THANK-YOU!

I was hoping someone would have the REAL stats on rahm's REAL performance...

BUSH did more to get the candidates elected than emmanuel.

[bigtree]

12. real stats?

:eyes:

what the fuck is it with the Emanuel hate? How about focusing all of this dissing on Bush?


Bush Back Into The Arms Of Daddy
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree

[PassingFair]

16. Strawman.

:rofl:

Look over there!

It's Bush!

:rofl:

[bigtree]

19. If you want to spend your time convincing folks that attacking Democrats is the most important pursu

you're in the wrong place

[PassingFair]

21. Tell that to the "liberal" haters.

They are the folks attacking democrats around here.

Thank you for telling me where "my place" is.

I was SO lost around here before you put me in it.

:eyes:

[bigtree]

22. I suspect that attacking Democrats is not the most important pursuit of most of the folks here

at Democratic Underground

The "liberal hater" crap is another posturing lie. Talk about strawmen.

[dysfunctional press]

20. rahm is my fuckwad dlc congressman.

i'm glad to soon be moving out of his district.

[1932]

17. All the Fighting Dems were white men except for Duckworth. Women did well

this year. In fact, a record number of women will be in Congress in 2005.

So, perhaps the problem with Fighting Dems is that they didn't have their finger on the pulse of the nation this year. They missed whatever mood it was that put record numbers of women in office. Perhaps the Iraq invasion is so bad that the US decided we didn't need fighting dems, but caring dems -- not that you can't be a caring dem who has served in the military, like JFK and Carter (you just have to focus on the caring part of your persona and not the fighting part).

Anyway, some of the women who won, in case anyone cares:
In flipped senate seats, McCaskill (the only woman running in the six flipped Senate seats) won. In the 28 flipped House seats Gabrielle Giffords, Nancy Boyda, Kirsten Gilibrand, Carol Shea-Porter all beat incumbent Republican men.

Interestingly, a lot of Democratic men flipped Republican seats by beating women (Mass Gov, Lampson in TX-22, Yarmuth in KY-3, Altmire in PA-4, Hall NY-19, Murphy CT-5) and a lot of Dem men beat Rep. women challenges (Nelson vs Harris, Fla Sen). So these record numbers of women are coming almost purely from Democratic gains (and this is also despite the fact that it was married men and not married women who defected from voting Republican!).

From NPR.org today, here are some more numbers:

2,433 women ran for seats as state lawmakers.

12 women ran for Senate seats.

2 new women were elected in the Senate: Claire McCaskill, in Missouri and Amy Klobuchar in Minnesota, bringing the total to 16.

Of the 12 Senate women running for seats, 8 were Democrats.

138 female candidates ran in the House.

10 new women were elected in the House.

57 women incumbents were re-elected in the House.

Of the 138 women who ran in the House, 97 were Democrats.

[wyldwolf]

23. LOL! You only cut and pasted the "non-members" section

...but here are some highlights from the rest of it:

In fact, Duckworth's loss says little about the superiority of either netroots or DCCC strategizing. But it does say a lot about the success of their jointly supported program to run disabled combat veterans and other former members of the military--dubbed the "Fighting Dems"--as a way of neutralizing the perception that Democrats are antiwar and weak on national security.

Ahhh... so the netroots jointly supported the fightin' Dems. Now that I think about it, I did see ads for them all over DailyKOS and MyDD, among others.

[bigtree]

24. why did you go and spoil the fun?

I was just getting up to boiling

[PassingFair]

25. Wouldn't want to "spoil the fun" of all 5

of you guys!

Good luck on your take-over of the party.

Look how GREAT it worked for the republicans
when their base stayed home. It will happen
to you in '08 if you try to legislate from
a corporate think tank.

[bigtree]

26. are you really so shallow that you can't admit you're wrong on your point?

here's the quote again:

"Duckworth's loss says little about the superiority of either netroots or DCCC strategizing. But it does say a lot about the success of their jointly supported program to run disabled combat veterans and other former members of the military--dubbed the "Fighting Dems"--as a way of neutralizing the perception that Democrats are antiwar and weak on national security."

All of the folks you are trying to divide on this board and the folks in the campaign you want to convine are divided were all working together in the campaign. That's what we do. That's how we do it. Together.

Now go find someone else to beat up on. Hopefully they are from the REAL opposition.


here's my neo-dem journal full of all of that conservatism you accuse me of harboring:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree



here's my article archive at oped news:
http://www.opednews.com/author/author176.html


BIG conservative here :eyes:

[PassingFair]

27. Tell that to Christine Cegelis

The candidate who would have WON that seat.

Now YOU go find someone else to beat up on.

I'll read your "neo-dem" journal in my spare time.

Thanks.

[rinsd]

28. Can I borrow your crystal ball?

Nothing says I'm full of it that the posturing that a candidate who couldn't win her primary indeed had lost the previous general election was now somehow poised for victory in Henry Hyde's old stomping grounds.

Either candidate would have been great. Duckworth was chosen by the primary voters. She lost a narrow one.

[bigtree]

29. He gave an interview where he cited Cegelis' numbers as 44%

as the reason Cegelis wasn't tapped: http://mydd.com/story/2006/5/8/134551/7884


Singer: There has been a lot of rhetoric coming out of the progressive blogosphere. Do you have any concern that might turn into, say, progressive voters staying at home on election day?

Emanuel: If the progressive blogs saying... Look, let's go back. What happened in 2004, John Kerry got 47 percent. Right?

Singer: In that district.

Emanuel: And Cegelis got what? Do you remember?

Singer: 44 percent

Emanuel: So she ran below John Kerry in that district. Correct?


that's the bulk of his answer. maybe a mistake, but nothing as sinister or so uniquely bad that should generate such animosity.

Read the interview.

[PassingFair]

30. He ate one of our own to make a place for her.

She wasn't the only viable one to get pushed
out. Democrats don't do that where I come from.
They wait until AFTER the primary to endorse
and fund.

You guys take the cake. And eat it.
And vomit it up and call it cake again.

[bigtree]

32. no he didn't. Tammy Duckworth's one of our own

even if she's not good enough for you

[PassingFair]

33. She wasn't even from that district.

But she didn't win. So I guess
we can argue this all evening.
She had ZERO experience and wasn't
much of a public speaker, but beyond THAT,
I guess she had MONEY and BACKING.

The grassroots were behind someone else.

Maybe THAT had a dulling effect on her
campaign, no?

[bigtree]

34. ONE campaign decision and Rep. Emanuel is dirt to you

Don't be surprised when all of the nonsense that's been written about his role in that ONE race proves to be completely wrong.

What Tammy Duckworth had/has is a commitment to our country and our party. Nice of you to try to force her, and by extention, all of the rest of the vets, to the outside of the party.

[PassingFair]

36. ONE RACE?

6 of his 55 "fighting dems" won.

Did you read the article?

"Don't be surprised when all of the nonsense that's been written about his role in that ONE race proves to be completely wrong."

Now who has the crystal ball?


:rofl:

You argue like a 2nd grader.

Rahm Emanuel is dirt to me because of the way he deigns to make
decisions for the party. He fancies himself a king maker. He tried
to torpedo Dean's 50 state strategy and bad-mouths 75 percent of
the voters in his own party.

[bigtree]

37. that's the only one you argued details about

do you have any other ARTICLES to parse?

[PassingFair]

38. Take your pick.

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2006/01/boss-tweed-emanuel-has-been-busy.html

He's been a busy guy.

[bigtree]

39. Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi and Rahm Emanuel say they are happy to share credit

The Netroots Election? Not So Fast



The Nation Wed Nov 8, 11:51 AM ET

Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi and Rahm Emanuel say they are happy to share credit for the Democrats' electoral success, but not everyone in the party is feeling as generous. Progressive bloggers, who often promote and criticize the Democratic Party with equal vigor, want their props. MyDD blogger Chris Bowers concluded that netroots activists were crucial to victory--long before the votes were counted. Last month, he wrote that "most, if not all, of the significant improvements Democrats have made from 2004 to 2006 were generated primarily within the netroots and the progressive movement." Yet the election results suggest the netroots' scorecard is decidedly mixed.


The blogs' most famous candidate and top fundraising beneficiary, Ned Lamont, lost his bid to unseat Senator Joe Lieberman. One of the campaign's senior advisors, former Clinton White House counsel Lanny Davis, said the victory "proved the blogosphere is all wind and very little sail." Bloggers tell a different story: the unusual, three-way race should not be judged strictly by who won but also by its success in helping "make Iraq the center of this electoral season," as Joel Silberman wrote on FireDogLake. If Lamont's loss is counted as a symbolic effort that beat expectations, his performance fits a pattern. Many of the netroots' most popular House candidates beat expectations this week, but ultimately lost.

While there is no single, authoritative list of netroots candidates, ActBlue.com, a Democratic fundraising clearinghouse, lists the candidates nominated by top blogs and ranks them by total donors. Looking at their top 20 Democratic House candidates, so far ten have lost, three have won and the other seven are in races that are still too close too call at the time of writing. The netroots' lost races include national names, such as FBI whistleblower Coleen Rowley in Minnesota and New York's Eric Massa, the popular former aide to Gen. Wesley Clark. Winners include attorney Paul Hodes in New Hampshire and two veterans, Joe Sestak in Pennsylvania and Tim Walz in Minnesota. (Bloggers also provided critical early support to long-shot Senate challengers Jon Tester and Jim Webb, who were locked in races that were also still too close to call on Wednesday morning.)

Yet regardless of the remaining results and recounts, the fact is the netroots' favorite candidates did not perform as well as the Democrats targeted by party leaders. And they were never supposed to. Many of the bloggers' picks were aggressive Democrats in long-shot districts who were neglected by the Beltway establishment. There is no doubt that bloggers leveraged money and political buzz to make races more competitive and put Republicans on the defensive, but it was simply not the decisive factor in the elections


http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20061108/cm_thenation/15138101



http://journals.democraticunderground.com/bigtree

[PassingFair]

40. What. Ever.

:crazy:

On Edit:

Who WROTE this?

Rahm Emanuel?

Does this mean something?

:rofl:

[bigtree]

41. Oh no no no no no !!!

someone disagrees with you!! Are they DLC neo-dems???

[PassingFair]

42. I can post opinion articles willy-nilly, too!

But I won't.

I'm done with you goons.

[bigtree]

43. Hell, that's what YOU started with

An opinion piece . . .

:hi:

[paulk]

35. just three days after the election

and the usual crowd of piss and moan whiners is hard at work dividing Democrats.