C-Span Moron Calls John McCain "Soft."..

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I wouldn't vote for McCain in a million years but how can a man who

-was shot out of an airplane

-held captive in a VietNamese prisoner camp for five years

-had two bouts with melanoma


be soft?


Then the caller had the ignorance or gall to say Mitt Romney is tough...

[Fresh_Start]

1. I'd sort of agree with the caller about McCain

he's soft because he sold out his pride and ethics and principles. Thats the ultimate soft.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. Perhaps But I'm Impressed With His Physical Courage

"Beating" melanoma and surviving captivity.


And Mitt Romney certainly isn't a man of firm convictions.

[elehhhhna]

22. Ethically soft? Yes. Absolutley.

[Skidmore]

3. And he sold out his family.

The man has no principles. You stand by and let a bully like * insult your child and wife and not utter a peep? If you won't stand up for your family, you won't stand up for anyone else, and we've seen him do that with his position on the torture bill.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. I'm Sorry But I Can't Discount His Physical Courage.

It took the VietNamese five years to break him. I'm afraid I would tell them anything they wanted to hear after one hour, as would ninety percent of people in that position.

[Skidmore]

9. I'm afraid I'm not impressed with physical courage. This

penchant for focusing of physical courage has gotten the world into more wars than necessary. I prefer the strength of personal integrity.

[freefall]

10. Right on, Skidmore!!!!! n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Both Are Important But The Unltimate Test Of Your Convictions Is Whether You Are Willing To Die

For Them.

[Skidmore]

17. I would argue that in Vietnam, McCain was trying to survive.

As for being willing to die for convictions, there are clearly convictions that McCain is not willing to die for as we've watched him time and time again sell those out to * and the Republican machine. The man has no personal integrity.

[acmejack]

19. Anyone who can watch that film of him climbing out of that burning A4

on the flight deck of the USS Forestall, when it was in the midst of all that exploding ordinance and was in fact about to explode itself, cannot doubt his courage. Don't tell me he is a coward! A jerk yes. A reprehensible republiclown, who would sell out his mother to advance his personal ambitions? Certainly! But his personal bravery is unquestionable. Those of you who have not walked the walk have no stead questioning the man's valor, especially on Veteran's Day!

[Skidmore]

21. I have tried to shelter my small children during air raids and

when street fighting broke out during a war I didn't ask for. Don't tell me about physical courage. It does not take bravery to wield automatic weapons or drop arsenal from the sky on women and children. Yeah, I've walked the walk and without a gun to protect me or them. I have no use for war or its machinery. I remain unimpressed with the bravado of men.

[acmejack]

26. delete-since I don't want to stump for McCain

Can't respond to inflamatory comments, so I won't.

[Kerrytravelers]

28. Where did Skidmore say that?

Suddenly, not being impressed with McCain's personal integrity and weighing personal integrity over physical strength is now pissing on all who served?

Please. Nice spin there. Are you stumping for the McCain 2008 Presidential bid? 'Cause you know, a vote against McCain is not a vote against all American troops- not those who have served, those who are serving and those who will one day serve. Kind of like a vote for Kerry or Democrats isn't a vote against all American troops- who have served, those who are serving and those who will one day serve.

Please tell me DU isn't turning into a military vs. civilian wrestling match.

[acmejack]

29. Certainly sounded like it to me.

That was only directed at McCain-Hah! You must think I'm dim...

[Kerrytravelers]

30. Where did Skidmore say that?

Seriously, where did s/he say that? It certainly didn't sound like that to me.

Could you be specific? I'd really like to understand.

Thanks,

kt



On edit: Oh, I see you've edited out your posts.

[acmejack]

31. In response to you!

"Don't tell me about physical courage. It does not take bravery to wield automatic weapons ... I remain unimpressed with the bravado of men."

Since McCain was a pilot the rest was a gratuitous attack on ground troops. Damn right I took offense. I edited it in response to your remarks & that was the only reason.

[Skidmore]

32. My words are not a gratuitous attack on anything but a statement on

the idea of war as a solution for the problems of the world. War is a lazy and destructive solution. It is also often an unprincipled solution. It is often the solution of men. And heaven help the old, the young, and the women who get in their path. There is no honor in war.

And what is inflammatory about acknowledging that a toddler and a 6 year old huddled frightened because things that make craters drop from the sky? How is that an affront to you and the honor of warriors? Perhaps if the political "warriors" had the will to arrive at different solutions, children like mine the world over would never again have to deal with the suffering that war inflicts.

[Kerrytravelers]

33. And...

So that means Skidmore hates the military. There are plenty of people who work in jobs where they carry weapons who aren't impressed with the bravado of men. I don't now many cops who look forward to shoot-outs. The military members in my family and among my friends don't look forward to war. They are unimpressed with the bravado of men. If the measure of a man is simply wielding weapons, then what does that say about the measure of a men? And one who might have, at one time been brave, doesn't carry that save bravado, that same bravery into his current life won't get my adulation simply because of one portion of his life. Yes, McCain served, he was brave and he had great bravado. But whatever he had in his youth is not gone. He allowed his family to be used in a racist campaign ploy by not coming out strong publicly about what happened. He went soft on the torture issue. On torture. A man who had been tortured. That alone shows me he has lost the bravado of his youth.

[acmejack]

36. Overly caffeinated and grieving over friends lost in decades past.

I do realize there were thousands if not millions of terrified innocents fleeing from people like McCain, I like so many have the image of the child burned into my brain.



I probably shouldn't come here on these days and make trouble. On a more rational day I would be whole heartedly agreeing, as I know you are right.

[Kerrytravelers]

37. Well, I think we can give you a little break then.

Many of us empathize and/or know what you're feeling today.

[blondeatlast]

23. Pretty much sums up my feelings about him. I loathe his politics and the

way he's carried out his personal life (and well, the way he's exploited his POW status when it suits his goals), but there is NO doubting his courage in the face of unimaginable horror.

[Kerrytravelers]

27. Thank you.

Any person who would let their family be used as some racist campaign ploy and NOT be completely outrages publicly, and who would then support the "man" who did it is beyond my comprehension. And, beyond my scope of caring.

There is nothing about McCain that is strong. There may have once been, but not any more.

[seaglass]

5. It's because sometimes he co-sponsors bills with D's and he's

anti-torture (kind of).

All the morons are out this morning. I can't believe the nut who just said Catholics aren't Christians and are going to hell because they worship Mary. Sometimes I can't believe I live in the same country with these whack jobs.

[lonestarnot]

6. McCain

:puke:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I Don't Like His Politics At All But I Am Impressed With Physical Courage

eom

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

8. McCain is a puny, weak POS.

He ceased to be a man when he let Bush trash him in 2000 and then turned around and "let bygones be bygones". Let himself be used like an old whore out of a lust for power.

He does not have the character to be president of the USA; remember, he also was a member of the Keating Five - politicos do not get much more corrupt than that. He carries the stench with him everywhere he goes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. My Point Is That The Man Displayed Great Physical Courage Regardless Of His Politics...

eom

[freefall]

13. Our point is that there are more important things than physical courage.

Lots of people with physical courage are moral cowards and McCain has joined that group. He has demonstrated time and time again in the last six years that he is without principle.

Peace,

freefall

[Caretha]

14. Not really

Unfortunately he was a POW during Viet Nam. All he did was survive. That's a basic human instinct, and there are thousands of American men who have been prisoner's of war in the past century. They'll be the first to tell you, they weren't/aren't heros.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. He Was Offered An Immediate Release In A Swap Because His Dad Was An Admiral

He refused and endured five years of torture. I wonder how many people whould have exhibited that kind of courage.

[Kerrytravelers]

34. Where is that courage when he went soft on the torture issue?

That decision of his offended me to the very core of my being. Period.

I started a thread on a mailing we received from Amnesty International. It still says Rumsfeld because it was through the US mail, not email. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2675277







McCain should be all over this. Where is he? If he is, it sure isn't loud enough.

There was a time when I really liked him, but I can't anymore.

[POAS]

15. The obvious conclusion from watching WJ is

that right wingers are insane. Many of their comments were just completely unhinged from reality.

[madrchsod]

16. i have come to the conclusion that

the years of imprisonment have done it`s damage because he has no courage and no principals. he kissed george- the man that did everything in his power to destroy him and his family.

[MrScorpio]

20. This "Vets For Freedom" guy is a warmongering idiot

Where the fuck do these people come from?

[blondeatlast]

24. Yes, I posted a "dump McCain" post in GD/P yesterday, but took pains

to note that I admired him for his service and survival in such hideous circumstances.

But I would agree that he is soft--he went through the hell of the Hanoi Hilton and still stood with a chickenshit/hawk over TORTURE? To further his political ambitions?

I absolutely admire his courage and service in Viet Nam, no question. But if he's really tough, he'll stop exploiting it and his family in order to win over moderates. Holding on to one's principles when it's a threat to one's ambitions to do so--that's what I call courage.

On that note, McCain has failed miserably.

I'm a longtime Arizonan, by the way, and have watched him since even before I could vote.

[Roland99]

25. The AM radio talking heads are the source for these rwingnuts "opinions"

The talking heads are PISSED at the likes of McCain. They want the GOP to keep moving to the right to the point that anyone to the left of, oh, Mussolini, would be considered a leftie/commie.

[librechik]

35. Mitt Romney= obvious pansy

just sayin...tough guys don't get manicures and visit stylists. (Not that there's anything wrong with that!) And McCain is soft--he changes his position depending on the listener. They broke him in Nam, and the experience is serving him well as he sucks up to the guys with power here.








ain't that sweet?

[La_Fourmi_Rouge]

38. He doesn't even reach AROUND! n/t

[Rocknrule]

39. I'll bet it was his wife

:evilgrin: