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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 09:36 AM
Original message
Guess Who's Coming to Dinner


Dear Matt and Christina Drayton:

I read in the Nov. 8 edition of the Syracuse Post-Standard that civil rights activist Rev. Jesse Jackson will be speaking at the Hendrick’s Chapel of Syracuse University on the 17th. I am hoping that you will be able to attend the speech, because I believe that it might help to address some of the concerns that you expressed about my recent essay "On Impeachment." It seems that some of the beliefs of one segment of the democratic party makes another segment uncomfortable – in fact, a few members of the Democratic Underground stated that my proposals in "On Impeachment" were "dangerous" – and I believe that Rev. Jackson is uniquely qualified to define the role of the Rainbow Coalition in democratic politics.

It was with some amusement that I read, in the Post-Stand article(page B-5), that one of the university faculty was concerned that Jackson would "give a speech that is purely political. That is going to be the greatest temptation right now." I hope that Jesse gives a very political speech, and explains how "politics" impacts the every day lives of those students.

It would be important for Jesse to talk about his runs for the presidency in 1984 and ’88. In particular, I would hope that he covers that time period found in Chapter 17 of Marshall Frady’s 1996 book, "Jesse: The Life and Pilgrimage of Jesse Jackson." That chapter is titled, "The Desperation After Coming This Far." It tells about how Jesse had brought large numbers of the progressive movement into the democratic party. He had earned consideration for the VP spot on the ’88 ticket.

US News & World Report had a poll that showed that a Dukakis-Jackson ticket would beat George Bush by 47% to 42%, while and Dukakis ticket without Jackson would lose by a similar amount. Jackson made it clear he wanted the chance: "For some people who have come by the way of the stars and have had silver spoons in their mouths and many job options – shall they run their father’s ranch, shall they run his plantation, shall they run the family corporation? -- maybe the vice presidency is not quite the top, but it’s a long way from where I started …" (page 402)

The book tells of how Dukakis invited Jesse and his wife to dinner at his home in Brookline, and then to the 4th of July celebration along the banks of the Charles River, to listen to the Boston Pops and watch the fireworks. It was a strange night. There was no one to pick the Jackson’s up at the Boston airport. Jesse’s staff had told Dukakis’ staff that he could not eat any milk products, yet almost the entire meal was milk-based. After the meal, Dukakis asked Jesse, "If I offered you the vice president spot, would you accept?" Jesse said, "Yes." It was, however, the last time they ever discussed the issue. Dukakis did not contact Jesse to tell him he had made another choice. And, as we know, Dukakis lost by the margin the US News & World Report had predicted.

Jackson’s address is sponsored by the African American Male Congress. I hope that Rev. Jackson talks about how the recent elections make it likely that Detroit Congressman John Conyers will likely be the chairman of the powerful House Judiciary Committee. In that position, the Nov. 6, 2006 TIME predicted Conyers will hold hearings to examine the Patriot Act (page 30). Jesse can tell these young people how Rep. Conyers is familiar with how the executive branch can abuse powers such as those granted by the Patriot Act. In fact, Jesse could read from the first Nixon White House "enemies list," made by Charles Colson, that had Conyers near the top: "Coming on fast. Emerging as a leading black anti-Nixon spokesman. Has known weakness for white females." (The American Police State; David Wise; Random House; 1976; page 329)

Those students might find that interesting, perhaps especially so in light of the republican ad attacking Harold Ford, Jr. For you see, Mr. And Mrs. Drayton, William Faulkner was correct when he wrote in "Intruder in the Dust" that "The past is never dead. It’s not even past."

Rev. Jackson might point out that the 2006 elections were so close that no one group can claim the full credit for the many democratic victories. It was a group effort. There are many good democrats who believe the victories were the result of "taking the middle." That is true, but it is equally true that the margin of victory was less than the number of progressives in the party. Take away that middle, and there would not have been progress; take away the progressives, and the democrats would find themselves in the middle of defeat. Again.

Each group that makes up the democratic party is a finger. Alone, our enemies can twist and break any one finger. But when we combine in a common effort, we make a powerful fist. It’s that fist that led us to victory in the elections, not just any one finger.

And that is why we want our place at the table today. Progressive democrats pitched in the funds it took to win the elections. We did our part in the hard work that brought the victories. Now we expect to be seated at the victory feast.

Jesse can tell the Syracuse students about the difficult work that was done in the 1960s. There was a lot of friction in those days. I think about part of the wonderful series "Eyes on the Prize" that played on PBS. There is an episode titled "Bridge to Freedom," about the march from Selma to Montgomery. There was an infamous film clip of James Foreman, dressed in the movement coveralls, telling the crowd, "This problem goes to the very bottom of the United States. And you know, I said it to them and I will say it again: If we can’t sit at the table, let’s knock the fucking legs off, excuse me." I remember afterward that James said he wished he hadn’t cursed in front of the people that day. But he was frustrated.

The progressive democrats are not cursing the party, or threatening to overturn any tables. But we want our say. We know that there have been episodes where those in that "middle" have been not only silent, but unwilling to listen to our voices. All you need to do is to look at Michael Moore’s film "Fahrenheit 9/11," and in some of the opening scenes, there are progressive members of the House of Representatives asking for the help of even one US Senator, because they were intent on making concerns about the republican effort to disenfranchise black voters in Florida part of the official record. Those Representatives were trying to do the same thing that the Selma marchers did.

Today we want to say that we must be willing to put the most important of topics on the table, even if it makes some people uncomfortable. We recognize the Patriot Act, because we have seen it before. It had a different name, but it was the same danger to democracy. In the Nixon days, it was called the Huston Plan. You can read about it in David Wise’s "The American Police State." Or in Bob Woodward’s "The Secret Man." Or, better yet, read about it in the historic Ervin Committee Report, in the Section A of Chapter 1, "The Background of Watergate." The Senate Committee, made up of both democrats and republicans, noted that the Huston Plan was in direct opposition to the Bill of Rights. It was this Huston Plan that led to the crimes we know as "Watergate," and which posed a danger to our democracy.

I thought it interesting that some on the Democratic Underground thought that my essay "On Impeachment" contained "dangerous" suggestions. Indeed, I think that they are in gross error. It is the Bush-Cheney administration that poses the dangers to our society. I merely suggested that when we are confronted by an updated Huston Plan, with the Patriot Act, the threats to the Bill of Rights that Keith Olbermann has noted, the Downing Street Memo, the Plame and the neocon/AIPAC espionage scandals, the WMD lies that led us to war in Iraq, and many, many other related crimes, that we lobby Representatives like John Conyers and Henry Waxman, and ask them to investigate. Investigate in the manner defined by the Constitution of the United States.

I remember that Dick Gregory spoke to a group of parents in a Selma church, to address their concerns that what their children were doing by marching was "dangerous." You can find Dick’s beautiful and moving speech at the end of his book "Nigger." He told the crowd,"Let’s analyze the situation. We’re not saying, ‘Let’s go downtown and take over city hall.’ We’re not saying, ‘Let’s stand on the rooftops and throw bricks at the white folks.’ We’re not saying, ‘Let’s get some butcher knives and some guns and make them pay for what they’ve done.’ …

"We’re saying, ‘We want what you said belongs to us. You have a constitution …. And you make me take a test on the United States Constitution, a constitution that hasn’t worked for anyone but you. And you expect me to learn it from front to back. So I learned it’." (page 202)

My essay "On Impeachment" shows that I’ve read that Constitution from front to back, too. It’s not dangerous. I suggested others read it. That’s not dangerous. I quoted from Arthur Schlesinger, Jr. Look at him: he’s an elderly intellectual who wears a bow-tie. He isn’t threatening. If you don’t want to read his "The Imperial Presidency," then please read his wonderful books "A Thousand Days" (about JFK) and "Robert Kennedy" (the best book on RFK). Then you will understand the promise that was made to progressive democrats. And you’ll know who invited us to this table.

I hope that you will be able to hear Rev. Jesse Jackson’s message. Perhaps afterwards, we could go out for a meal. I promise I’m not planning to kick the legs out from under that table.
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Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 09:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. Our libraries must be mirrors of each other on each coast!
Marshall Frady beautifully illustrates the dramatic power of Jesse in the first chapter showing both his human frailties and his magnificence. The story of the women cleaning chicken and dying horribly in that fire by being locked in, in the Carolina's will haunt me to the end of my days.

Impeachment is a natural progression after much finding of fact. Oh, how I love the Constitution first rather than standing on a political platform trying to amass more power. Which have most people willingly died for more political power or the Declaration of Independence which lead to the Constitution?

:applause: as always!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's a wonderful book.
I thought Jesse's run for president in '88 was one of the most important events in recent history. And not just because of him -- with his "human frailties and his magnificence" (I like that!) -- but because of the power of the progressive grass roots.

I was in that park along the river that July 4th. I'll never forget it.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. We want what you said belongs to us
MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain--
All, all the stretch of these great green states--
And make America again!




Let America be America again.

Let it be the dream it used to be.
Let it be the pioneer on the plain
Seeking a home where he himself is free.
(America never was America to me.)

Let America be the dream the dreamers dreamed--
Let it be that great strong land of love
Where never kings connive nor tyrants scheme
That any man be crushed by one above.

(It never was America to me.)

O, let my land be a land where Liberty
Is crowned with no false patriotic wreath,
But opportunity is real, and life is free,
Equality is in the air we breathe.

(There's never been equality for me,
Nor freedom in this "homeland of the free.")

Say, who are you that mumbles in the dark?
And who are you that draws your veil across the stars?

I am the poor white, fooled and pushed apart,
I am the Negro bearing slavery's scars.
I am the red man driven from the land,
I am the immigrant clutching the hope I seek--
And finding only the same old stupid plan
Of dog eat dog, of mighty crush the weak.

I am the young man, full of strength and hope,
Tangled in that ancient endless chain
Of profit, power, gain, of grab the land!
Of grab the gold! Of grab the ways of satisfying need!
Of work the men! Of take the pay!
Of owning everything for one's own greed!

I am the farmer, bondsman to the soil.
I am the worker sold to the machine.
I am the Negro, servant to you all.
I am the people, humble, hungry, mean--
Hungry yet today despite the dream.
Beaten yet today--O, Pioneers!
I am the man who never got ahead,
The poorest worker bartered through the years.

Yet I'm the one who dreamt our basic dream
In the Old World while still a serf of kings,
Who dreamt a dream so strong, so brave, so true,
That even yet its mighty daring sings
In every brick and stone, in every furrow turned
That's made America the land it has become.
O, I'm the man who sailed those early seas
In search of what I meant to be my home--
For I'm the one who left dark Ireland's shore,
And Poland's plain, and England's grassy lea,
And torn from Black Africa's strand I came
To build a "homeland of the free."

The free?

Who said the free? Not me?
Surely not me? The millions on relief today?
The millions shot down when we strike?
The millions who have nothing for our pay?
For all the dreams we've dreamed
And all the songs we've sung
And all the hopes we've held
And all the flags we've hung,
The millions who have nothing for our pay--
Except the dream that's almost dead today.

O, let America be America again--
The land that never has been yet--
And yet must be--the land where every man is free.
The land that's mine--the poor man's, Indian's, Negro's, ME--
Who made America,
Whose sweat and blood, whose faith and pain,
Whose hand at the foundry, whose plow in the rain,
Must bring back our mighty dream again.

Sure, call me any ugly name you choose--
The steel of freedom does not stain.
From those who live like leeches on the people's lives,
We must take back our land again,
America!

O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath--
America will be!

Out of the rack and ruin of our gangster death,
The rape and rot of graft, and stealth, and lies,
We, the people, must redeem
The land, the mines, the plants, the rivers.
The mountains and the endless plain--
All, all the stretch of these great green states--
And make America again!

Langston Hughes
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Langston Hughes
was such a powerful voice.

"And make America again!"
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. We, the people, MUST redeem
It is our destiny

Marcus Garvey's words come to pass,
Marcus Garvey's words come to pass,

Ain't got no food to eat,
Ain't got no money to spend, wo-oo-oo
Ain't got no food to eat,
Ain't got no money to spend, woo-oo-oo

Come, little one and let me do what i can do for you
And you and you alone
Come, little one, come wo-oo-oo
Let me do all i can do for you and you alone, woo-oo-oo

He who knows the right thing
And do it not
Shall be spanked with many stripes,


Weeping and wailing and moaning,
You've got yourself to blame, I tell you.
Do right do right do right do right do right,
Do right do right do right do right do right
Tell ya to do right, woo-oo-oo
Beg ya to do right, woo -oo- oo

Where is bagawire, he's nowhere to be found
He can't be found
First betrayer who gave away Marcus Garvey
Son of satan, first prophesy,
hold 'em Marcus hold 'em
prohey fulfilled
Catch them, Garvey old

Prophesy fullfilled
Catch them Garvey, catch them woo-oo-oo
Hold them Marcus, hold them woo-oo-oo
Marcus garvey, marcus woo-oo-oo
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
6. "The past is never dead. It’s not even past."
So true, those ghosts are still swirling ariund us as they've never fully been put to rest. And until we determine once and for all that the Constitution is a mandate for this country and not a choice that an imperial president can make to follow at his whim (or not), those ghosts will never be fully put to rest.

I notice that Leahy of Vermont is determined to restore Habeas Corpus. Clearly he understands what has been lost so far and what will be lost in the future if we don't restore the authority of the Constitution.

No doubt this topic will be discussed for the next two years and that is wonderful. Let no one think they are above the law, not the entitled, resentful man who resides in the WH or his venial veep. What did they think they were doing? I think what scares people is the thought that it will be seen (using our last impeachment proceedings as an example) as a witch hunt, that the dems will lose the credibility they are just starting to have again. So let me say this about that. Please keep in mind that many polls, nationwide, say * is worthy of impeachment. Will it happen? I cannot say. The dems who would be in charge of this say not. I am willing to trust their judgment at this point and watch as they begin other investigations. The results of which, I believe, will open the eyes of the American public as to just how egregious the acts of this admin and their cronies have been. Then we'll see where we go from there. I am mindful of Nancy Pelosi and her comment of it being off the table and an article I read that said, "for now". If nothing else, the threat of it hangs over * and may be a deterent to any other wilful act he has contemplated. So let's see how things play out in the next months and year. You never know.

I had no idea Conyers was on Nixon's enemy list. I give him credit for never giving up, anywhere along the way. We can trust this man, and I am willing to do so.

*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. It's interesting to read
those old "enemies lists." Here are a couple others from the first list:

Ed Gutherman, an editor of the LA Times: "a highly sophisticated hatchetman ... It is time to give him the message."

Morton Halperin: "A scandal would be most helpful here."

Sidney Davidoff, aide to Mayor Lindsay: "A first class S.O.B., wheeler-dealer and suspected bagman."

Daniel Schorr: "A real media enemy."

And the dangerous Mary McGory: "Daily hate Nixon articles."
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. You Just Never Know
Edited on Sat Nov-11-06 10:38 AM by Me.
When I saw the name Morton Halperin on the enemies list I wondered if there was any connection to ABC political director Mark Halperin who has also been christned with the title of "latest beltway darling". Mark is Morton's son.


" Apparently, the most traumatizing and horrifying thing that could ever happen to Mark Halperin is for Bush followers like Hugh Hewitt to think he's a liberal. It is self-evidently very important to Halperin -- on an emotional and deeply personal level -- to demonstrate that he is one of them, or at least not one of those liberals. To achieve this, he made an extraordinary vow to Sean Hannity when trying to win Hannity's approval, in which he pledged that the media would spend the next two weeks compensating for all of their anti-conservative sins over the past decades, and now he is engaged in a truly debased and highly emotional crusade to obtain Hugh Hewitt's affection.

I really question whether someone who has obviously made it such a high priority to obtain a very personal form of right-wing absolution can possibly exercise appropriate news judgment. If Halperin is willing to expend this much time and energy and shower Hewitt with such gushing praise -- and if he's willing to make such a public spectacle of himself when doing so -- all in order to convince Hewitt that he isn't liberal, won't that goal rather obviously affect Halperin's news coverage? Isn't there something extremely unseemly about the political director of ABC News engaging in such an intense campaign to win the approval of one of the most blindly partisan, extremist Bush followers in the country?" Cont...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/11/1/112435/994

*shadow government*
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Lost History, by Robert Perry
has interesting information on "Project Truth" and the efforts to make "perception management" an everyday part of the corporate media. On page 252, he notes that the Reagan administration "succeeded in maneuvering secrecy critics into a series of crippling compromises that expanded secrecy laws. Some of the sacrrifices were promoted by 'bipartisan' Democrats, such as Rep. Lee Hamilton of Indiana. Others were tolerated by ACLU officials, such as Morton Halperin. The rational often was that the compromise was better than what the Reagan administration might do otherwise."

It's a small world, sometimes.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. So I Wonder What The Father Thinks
of the son?

*shadow government*
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Annces Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
32. It is a small world
or a large world where everything is connected.

:) :)
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hwmnbn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks again, H2O Man.....
Some of us have forgotten and some of us weren't there in the late 60s when it seemed like this country was coming apart. These battles we are fighting today are the same ones we fought back then. Only the level of government sophistication and sinister secrecy is much higher.

Our principles today are the same ones that were worth fighting for. Tuesday's results gave me a similar feeling that RFK did.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Tuesday's results ....
Yes, the election results were worth the fight. And it was evidence that what RFK had been advocating in late 1967 and '68 was true: that when we put our smaller, individual differences behind us, and concentrate on our common interests, we find the promise of America. I felt that Tuesday, and it was confirmed on Wednesday!
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. Fascinating! The Dukakis story is so significant! As is that in the end,
It's Jackson's name that endured in relevance (with all the controversy), while Dukakis became history so shortly after his show of disrespect.
And, oh, how I hope that one day soon, I'll be able to read W's hate list. Preferabe as part of court evidence.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
13. I think it is
interesting that books such as "The American Reader: Words That Moved a Nation" (Diane Ravitch; Harper-Collins; 1990) contain Jesse's Democratic National Convention speech, along with speeches by JFK, MLK, RFK, as well as FDR, and even Jefferson and Washington. But Dukakis is not even a footnote.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
11. I was a 'Jesse Jackson Democrat' for many years.
I remember that election very well as I supported Jesse all the way through. I remember about halfway through the primary, right before Ney York and others voted, Jesse led in the popular vote. It was a very exiting moment. I too expected Jesse to be offered the spot but I can't recall why. I also remember the DLC/DNC battles after the election over the primary process which was adjusted in a way that helped the Clinton win years later.

Investigate! It will happen, and we will all be more than happy when the pressure from those investigations forces the compromises we will seek to further legislation and effect the policy changes we want from the administration. NO ONE from our side will stand in the way when that ball starts rolling. By that time folks will realize Bush still has play and needs to be further stifled.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Jesse and Dick Gregory
assisted us in the effort to get Rubin Carter out of jail in the 1980s. I had always respected both, but grew to admire them even more at that time.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. My conservative dad would contradict his outward bigotry and disappear
to go and march or sit in somewhere with Dick Gregory from D.C. across the country. He never let on where. Strange memory I have. Dick Gregory must have meant that much, I would think at the time, because dad acted like such a conservative with everything else.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. My father would be
considered a conservative democrat by today's standards. He had been one of the heads of the telegrapher's union for the railroads in the northeast, and so he was fairly familiar with corruption among the rich and powerful .... the owners and managers of the lines were politically powerful, and as crooked as could be. My father was big on FDR, and I remember all about Leland Olds, who had been a writer who advocated for the railroad unions before FDR hired him. What happened to Olds on the Federal Power Commission was eye-opening, of course. But for some reason, it was Watergate that really was the most upsetting to my father.

Somedays, when I grow tired of talking to myself, I wish my father were here to discuss the Bush-Cheney administration with me!
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Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
15. K & R n/t
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jokerman93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
18. Call and Response
THIS LAND IS YOUR LAND
words and music by Woody Guthrie

This land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me

As I was walking a ribbon of highway
I saw above me an endless skyway
I saw below me a golden valley
This land was made for you and me

I've roamed and rambled and I've followed my footsteps
To the sparkling sands of her diamond deserts
And all around me a voice was sounding
This land was made for you and me

The sun comes shining as I was strolling
The wheat fields waving and the dust clouds rolling
The fog was lifting a voice come chanting
This land was made for you and me

As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!

In the squares of the city - In the shadow of the steeple
Near the relief office - I see my people
And some are grumblin' and some are wonderin'
If this land's still made for you and me.

This land is your land, this land is my land
From California, to the New York Island
From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I like the
5th verse. It's not always included, though it should be.
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thank you Rev Jackson nm
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fortyfeetunder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
22. Compelling letter
We need to hear more from folks like Jesse, for I fear we are continuing that social/racial relations decline back to where we were in the 1960's. Like voting rights, civil rights, affirmative action, immigration, are, IMHO, still fragile and vulnerable.

The USA, can't afford to repeat the 1960's again, and expect to come out a stronger nation.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
23. beautifully written. thankyou for this post.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Thank you.
I was hoping that people would enjoy it. I thought it might be of interest, even to those DUers who disagree with my opinion on the need to investigate VP Cheney's actions.
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Tatiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
26. Oh hell - you HAD to bring up the beginning of F 9-11, didn't you?
I have the movie and I always fast-forward past that part when I watch it. It's simply too painful. I'm getting emotional right now, thinking about it. We really have lost the purpose of politics and government. It was designed for the benefit of the people; to aid people in the pursuit of happiness. It strikes me that our Founding Fathers must have been believers, to some extent, in Aristotle's ideas on happiness and how politics and government should be designed to facilitate that pursuit of happiness.

There are so many things that move me about this essay, but I can particularly identify with Foreman's frustration. It angers me to no end to hear, not from members of the opposition, but members of our OWN PARTY talk about things like "extending an olive branch to the other side," or "we don't have the votes for _______." We didn't get Civil Rights by twidling our thumbs waiting for 2/3 popularity with the American public before discussing the issue. We got it by fighting and never giving up and educating the public and letting them see real-life evidence of wrongness of Jim Crow laws and segregationist policies. We GOT IN THEIR FACE until they were sickened and embarrassed by America's dirty little secrets.

Come back to the present, and the situation is no different. America's got some dirty little secrets and some poor widdle sensitive citizens feel as if we shouldn't make waves. I'll apologize in advance for cussing myself, but FUCK THAT! There are thousands of people who have died in Iraq: Americans, Iraqis, British, French. And what have they died for? An ignoble neoconservative ideal - nothing more or less. People are being detained indefinitely with no rights - INNOCENT PEOPLE. We are putting our soldiers around the world in grave danger of being tortured because we are using inhumane, foul and sick forms of torture on captured POWs (NOT enemy combatants). Our privacy rights have been eroded. Someone who doesn't like me, but is rich and powerful (and has friends in the right places) can use the government to obtain access to the websites I visit, my phone records, my viewing habits, virtually ANYTHING. No personal information is sacrosanct anymore. We, as Americans, have no assurance that our personal information will only be used in a fair and honest manner.

There's more, there's enough for me to go on for days. The bottom line is that there has been a serious erosion in our Constitutional protections and laws. Like the President says, it's only a piece of paper. There's something seriously wrong with a person who serves at the pleasure of the people, who is in employed by the people, occupying a position created and given authority by what he deems as just a piece of paper. Such a person ought not occupy that position, if those are indeed his feelings towards our Constitution. That person took an oath to uphold it, but has instead pissed on the very document that he swore to uphold.

Just from a "right or wrong" perspective, why shouldn't we do everything in our power to remove that person and others like him from their positions in power when it is obvious that everything they do only results in weakening and marginalizing the principles this nation was founded on?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thank you.
Sometimes I think back about the struggles that people engaged in, and the goals they were willing to sacrifice for .... and I think of the human toll ... the jailings, the broken bones, the suffering and the deaths .... and I think that much of the progress that those from the '50s and '60s and '70s made in civil rights, in women's rights, and the anti-war movement .... and I wonder how and why so many people today are willing to give that progress up.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Have They Forgotten
if they ever knew, what it is like to live under suppression, to belittled, or worse, for having a different skin color, being a different sex or having a different orientation? How could everyone not see how terrible a crime was visited upon Mathew Shepherd? If they can weep for a man crucified, why can't they have empathy for a boy who was pinioned on barbed wire?

I think we've been in a modern version of Sleepy Hallow, all asleep, engrossed in our lives and ourselves to the extent that we never lifted out heads. We've been drifting in this country and even those who recognized the danger that approached may never know the full extent of it unless there are investigations.

*shadow government*
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #27
35. 'wonder how and why'
"The past is never dead. It’s not even past."


But it is sometimes forgotten by those who lived it, and often undiscovered by those who come after.







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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
29. Excellent H2O Man!
thank you, thank you! :)
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #29
38. I appreciate that
you like it!
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
30. "we want our say."
"The progressive democrats are not cursing the party, or threatening to overturn any tables. But we want our say. We know that there have been episodes where those in that "middle" have been not only silent, but unwilling to listen to our voices."

Amen. Beautiful analogy.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I think that
the majority of DUers understand that feeling. Some of the younger folk may not remember the movie that I speak of, but they know the experience of being asked to pay full dues but yet to be denied the full membership in our society.
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Starfury Donating Member (615 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
33. K & R - Impeachment is a crucial tool for America democracy!
Any tool can be abused or misused, but that doesn't mean that the tool should be avoided. It does mean that it should be used carefully and responsibly.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Right.
There are a few people on DU who understand what impeachment is, and are not in favor of it. But the majority of those expressing their feelings against impeachment do not have much understanding of what it is, and why it is important. That is a result of the purposeful miseducation of the American people that has taken place since 1974.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
36. Perhaps your best essay yet.
I am in awe.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. Thank you.
I was hoping that my essay made sense, and that people would enjoy it.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. !
a little kick

*shadow government*
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. I am very surprised to hear
that DUers thought your essay on Impeachment was dangerous. I suggest that each of us seek out a copy of the Constitution/Bill of Rights this week for review. Perhaps we need a special forum here on DU to review it together?

Thank you for my weekly dose of dangerous ideas to think over!
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. Underneathe that bow tie,
Arthur Schlesinger Jr is a threatening force. At least Nixon thought so. (smile)
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. Bow ties.
Accessories for the new subversives. :)

Remember Senator Paul Simon? He was a wild man too.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I liked his autobiography.
But, as you say, it is subversive. He understood the Constitution.
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