MS Vista pricing will raise the cost of PC's and raise the cost

[alfredo]

of doing business.

http://news.com.com/Acer+Vista+is+an+excuse+for+Microsoft+price+increases/2100-1016_3-6130136.html

Microsoft is raising the price of its software as it prepares to launch Vista, according to one of the leading PC manufacturers, Acer.

According to Jim Wong, senior corporate vice president of the Taiwan-based company, the issue is simply that the basic home edition of Vista, Home Basic, which is available for preorder on Amazon.co.uk for 154.99 pounds ($293), is so basic that users will be forced to move to Vista Home Premium, at 189.99 pounds ($359). A Home Edition of Windows XP is currently available for 165.99 pounds, but has a recommended retail price of 176.99 pounds.

"The new (Vista) experience you hear of, if you get Basic, you won't feel it at all," Wong told PC Pro magazine. "There's no (Aero) graphics, no Media Center, no remote control."

Imagine the cost of upgrading your business network to Vista. Include in that price the cost of compatible hardware.


Greed is counter productive.

[McKenzie]

1. OSX 10.4 is currently £89 from Apple UK

and it is a far superior OS to XP - don't know about Vista - not seen it in use.

M$ is ripping people off imo.

[alfredo]

4. There's a good reason for that. MS is a software company. They need

to make their money from sales of software. Apple is a hardware company. The OS adds value to the hardware.

I can't wait to see what Leopard does.

Check out this widget:

Maintidget It runs the periodic scripts. It's very nice.
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/20981

It's a good idea if you are on a laptop or if you turn your computer off at night.

[McKenzie]

8. thanks alfredo - will add it to my increasing load of widgets

just found a file shredder widget that over writes to DoD standard which is handy.

[Solon]

9. I agree and disagree...

But really, Apple is about as much a hardware company as Dell. Granted, Dell hardware is sub par, while Apple's isn't, but then again, the only real difference between the two, now, is the case, which for Macs, is MUCH nicer, but I don't really care about that, and the customized ROM chip that is needed for MacOS X to run on x86 Macs. Macs are PCs with a better OS than Windows.

[alfredo]

13. The beauty of the case goes beyond the external.

Look inside, look at what they have done to make upgrading and repair easier. If anything Apple knows how to design the machine.
http://www.apple.com/macpro/design.html# Attention to detail. There's no jagged edges. Everything is finished.

[Solon]

27. I don't care about "Jagged Edges" whatever that means...

First, it looks like it would be hard as hell to use a standard DVD drive on that thing, not to mention I see no easy way to replace the motherboard without taking all that extra crap out of the case. Yes it makes it extremely easy to add or replace hard drives, PCI cards, and memory, but that seems to be the limit.

Look, Apple makes an excellent OS, they even use quality hardware, but all that other stuff is fluff, so to speak. But, my problem is this, I can get a new case that's just as well designed, a top of the line Mobo/CPU, and all for a little less than 400 dollars. Hell, I ALREADY have the case, the mouse, the monitor, a DVD burner(don't know why you need two), etc. Tell me when they sell NEW motherboards, and sell the x86 version of the OS at retail, THEN I consider buying those, till then, thanks but no thanks, I'm not made out of money.

[alfredo]

38. Leopard will be sold retail. By then hackers will have a good

hack to make the OS run on commodity hardware.

I'm from the school of "it's not what you do but how you do it." I don't know how many times I have been cut and scraped working inside computers. Rounding edges, making things click into place, making screws so they don't fall into the computer shows that a lot of thought goes into making the computer user and techie friendly. I used to be a bicycle mechanic and I appreciate manufacturers who think of those who repair their equipment. I don't know about how easy or hard it would be to replace the motherboard, I assume it would not be difficult if it is designed with the same philosophy.

The intel pro model is brand new (less than a month) , I don't know when or if they will have new motherboards available.

Part of the appeal of the Mac is the tight integration between hardware and software. I don't have to worry about conflicts, drivers, and other such crap. Yes I am limited to some degree with hardware, but I am secure in the knowlege that what I plug in will play. Lack of software? There's very little shovelware for the Mac, I don't miss it. It's a small market so it has to be good to survive. Games? I have my PS 2 and plenty freeware and shareware games to play on my Mac.

I have been thinking about making my own Linux box, but I live two blocks from a Goodwill store and can pick up good hardware cheap if I want to. The McMansion crowd nearby replace computers often. A used Toshiba laptop might be better for my needs. Most are Linux friendly.

[Solon]

43. Sometimes I think PCs are getting too easy to build...

I remember building my old 386 and AMD K7 where you had to read about which jumper setting is for each piece of hardware. When I built the computer I'm using now, well, it took maybe a quarter of the time, about 30 minutes, what with the everything from the hand screws(normal screws with those BIG heads used without screwdrivers), and a snap in motherboard, hook in power supply, etc. the thing just booted up and I installed Linux on it really quick.

I "recycle" as much as I can from my computers, my monitor is somewhat old, but fulfills my needs just fine, hell, I still use the disk drive from the 386 in this computer, that thing is at least 15 years old. All I need, for a "new" computer, is a Mobo, CPU, and RAM, bought separately, but overall a HELL of a lot cheaper than buying a Dell or Apple.

[alfredo]

44. I lack space here, that's why I will probably go with a Mac Mini.

I can mount it under my desk.

If I do build I would have to build something like a Mini-iTX.

Right now I have this seven year old Mac G4/450 dual. It will be sporting a Linux partition when the Mini comes.

[longship]

2. Yet another reason to switch to Linux.

All my computers run Linux.
Linux is free!--All the software is free, too.
Linux is reliable--No reboots, ever. No blue screens of death.
Linux is secure--no viruses, no spyware, not even a worry about these things
Linux is fast, fast, fast.

The one issue is installation and configuration, but once that is done, the computer is stable and easily maintainable by the user.

Ubuntu Linux is a good way to start. They'll even send you installation and Live Boot CDs for free.

[alfredo]

3. Any of the Unix variants would be much cheaper and more

secure than anything I've seen out of MS. We will have to wait to see if Vista does deliver value for the dollar, but past experience makes me think they will fall short again.

When I get my Mac Mini I am going to put Linux on a partition on this machine.

[jmowreader]

11. And the Linux version of QuarkXPress ships when?

[longship]

12. Well, you need publishing?

Then, maybe a Mac will do you better. It has a Un*x kernel, just like Linux. It's stable and reliable and does very nice publishing.

I didn't mean to imply that Linux was for everybody or everything, but for general use and for many, many specific uses, it is a great alternative.

Publishing? Try Mac on OS X. Also good for lots of stuff.
Games? Well, you can play lots of games with Windows.
Almost everything else? Linux might suit you fine, and certainly is heads over heals better than Windows.

[alfredo]

14. Scribus and Inkscape does all I need.

http://www.scribus.net/

http://www.inkscape.org/ I love Inkscape

[jmowreader]

29. I looked at Scribus and Inkscribe's webpages before posting that

I think any commercial printer would be HIGHLY reticent about taking a file from either program.

Inkscribe doesn't generate EPS, so it's useless on either computer-to-film or computer-to-plate--SVG won't image on a hardware RIP like an Agfa Star 400 and it WILL crash a lot of software digital front ends...it definitely will crash a Brisque--and Scribus won't do PANTONE colors.

SVG will run on a Prinergy or a Prinect, but you get 300dpi images out of it. Vector graphics on one of those rigs should image in the thousands of dpi--my 4press was set to 3083dpi.

[alfredo]

39. Both are works in progress and both are not

replacements for the big pro operations. They suit my needs. I use Inkscape for simple images (propaganda). Scribus I use for newsletters.

[DavidDvorkin]

34. Self-delete

[Armstead]

17. Can a computer have both Linux and Windows?

I keep wanting to try Linux, but all my software and files are Windows.

Is there a way to have both on a computer to try out Linux for a while?

[yojon]

22. check out vmware.com

You can make a partition in windows that runs linux very nicely. You download vmware server. It is in beta so it is free for now. Works great!

[Feron]

32. Yes

When you install Linux, you have the option to dual boot. My distro's free version (Mandriva) automatically sets up the bootloader so that you can dual boot between the two. The only glitch I ran into was the anti-virus protection in my BIOS. After turning it off, everything went smoothly. Otherwise my BIOS would ask if I wanted to run the bootloader twice before it could run.

Keep in mind that Linux can read a NTFS partition (so all of your files will be accessible), but can only read/write to a FAT32 partition. Windows also cannot see your Linux partition unless you get software to do it (the name escapes me at the moment since I don't use it). I just made a FAT32 partition as a dumping ground for anything I download in Linux that I'll want to use in Windows.

Speaking of software, there is plenty of freeware available (and your distro should come with tons of it on the installation disc) and I haven't had a problem finding replacements for what I use in Windows.

I would recommend getting a spare harddrive for Linux and you can partition it through XP (I did). However if you are going to partition on your Windows harddrive, then I would try another partitioning tool.

If you don't want to install just yet, there are also live CDs that you can try.

Additionally if you do choose to install, the distro's site will most likely have step by step pictures and instructions of the process.

[JesterCS]

33. Yet another reason...

to pirate Windows? heh

Not that i condone that or do it personally *whistles*

[kiahzero]

5. Vista has finally pushed me away from MS entirely.

My next laptop will be a Mac, and my upgrades to my desktop will have compatibility with Linux as a main focus.

[alfredo]

15. you will find a lot of Nix apps. Some run native, some are

in the process of porting to Aqua.
I use NeoOffice, GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus, and other Unix apps.

I used to use Fink until native ports started appearing.

[kiahzero]

19. Yeah, I know.

I was running Gentoo Linux on my desktop, but then I started playing World of Warcraft; I haven't touched my Linux hard drive in over two years now. Since I'm pretty much done with that, there's nothing exclusive to Windows that I would want to run on my desktop. My girlfriend has a Mac laptop, so I've got some exposure to running on that OS. She had been trying to use OpenOffice.org at first, but it was way too crash-happy. NeoOffice, on the other hand, has been running well enough that I feel I'll be able to do everything I need to do.

It'll probably be another year or so before I make the switch, because I've still got a while on the warranty for my laptop, but I think I'll be happy when I do.

[alfredo]

20. Neo Office 2 should run native.

I am going to get a Mini. That will be the first non pro model I have bought other than iMacs for my wife.

[sandnsea]

6. Well labor pushes prices up

doncha' know. :sarcasm:

[originalpckelly]

7. Time to bring an anti-trust suit against these assholes!

We have to create a special prosecutor, because Bush is nicely wound around Gates' finger. Don't believe me? Here from the FEC's (Federal Election Commission) website:

GATES, BILL
REDMOND, WA 98052
MICROSOFT

WASHINGTON STATE REPUBLICAN PARTY
08/19/1998 2000.00 98033570812

GATES, BILL
REDMOND, WA 98052
MICROSOFT CORPORATION/CHAIRMAN

VOLUNTEER PAC
07/06/2004 2000.00 24971657360
12/30/2005 2000.00 26990169196

GATES, BILL
REDMOND, WA 98052
MICROSOFT/CHAIRMAN

ALLEN, GEORGE
VIA FRIENDS OF GEORGE ALLEN
12/31/2005 2000.00 26020052188


That is the only reason Windows is expensive. SON OF A BITCHES! And Bush uses a Mac to top it off!!!

[Neshanic]

10. "Outlook" is not included in majority of Office2007 versions. Asshats Microsoft.

[blogslut]

16. IMHO

Big mistake on the part of MS. They've probably priced themselves right out of the market. Either folks will switch or they simply won't upgrade. Don't get me started on the way MS literally holds a user hostage with .Net.

Screw em. I begrudgingly upgraded to Win 2000 just this year. I shut off Windows update. And if they force my hand as a user, I'm going MAC.

[alfredo]

18. The vendors will complain, but I don't see much they can do

to MS. If they try something, MS will retaliate. The DoJ won't touch them.

[blogslut]

21. Why not?

The DoJ has touched MS before. My hope is "the vendors" will include players like Walmart. It's high time MS got slapped with a brand, spanky new Anti-Trust action. I've just about had it will Billy Gate's frigging bloatware and I supsect I am far from alone.

Damned piece of crap "let's-just-write-code-over-code-patch-over-patch" sloppy damned junk. Grumble. Grumble. Grumble. Grrrrrrrrrr.

[alfredo]

23. With Aberto in charge there, I don't think they'd touch MS.

How many anti trust cases has there been since 2001?

[ContraBass Black]

24. "...one of the leading PC manufacturers, Acer."

:wtf:
:rofl:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

25. Vista is a load of fucking bollocks.

I had a chance to play around with RC2 yesterday (thank you MSDN) and it was a nightmare. It was slower on my brand new dual-core xeon than XP is on my old IBM T40 laptop. Redraw performance was especially bad. The UI is a complete mess - worse than anything MS have done in the past. It has the potential to utterly confuse average users. I have no idea what the hell MS were thinking with Vista, but I don't think it's going to appeal to anybody.

God, I'm actually thinking of switching to Apple when XP gets out of date. And I hate Apple. That's how bad Vista is.

[alfredo]

26. You can use either Parallels or Boot Camp

and run XP on your Mac if you need to run Win apps.

http://www.parallels.com/
http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/


Keep an eye out for this project too.

http://darwine.opendarwin.org/

[benEzra]

30. Ditto.

A coworker of mine has been playing around with Vista a bit, and he said he can't believe how SLOW it is compared to XP.

I got REALLY turned off on Apple in the years where they were peddling slower hardware than most x86's and charging twice as much for it (I even used the term "Reality Distortion Field" a bit, Apple-haters will identify) but since they've built their new OS on a Unix based kernel and have switched over to x86 architecture instead of IBM/Motorola, I'm getting a lot more interested. The MS Vista crap may be the last straw for me as well.

I'm currently running a Dell with a 2.8 GHz P4 processor and 512MB of RAM, and many XP processes run slower than Win 97 ran on our old 500-MHz system. Various software components decide on their own to work or not work. I ditched Internet Exploder and am now running Firefox, but I'm getting tired of the whole bloatware thing, and I have serious privacy concerns with Microsoft's We-Own-Your-Machine philosophy. I think there may be a Mac in my future at some point.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

36. Had a look at Mac Minis yesterday.

For the price, the new Intel-based minis are really compelling. The old Moto-based ones were far too slow, but the new ones look nice.

I also like the idea of having a computer that takes up almost no space.

[Vidar]

28. Yet another microsoft scam.

[jmowreader]

31. It's not just the cost of the software. The PC it needs is seriously jacked up too

I went to Microsoft's "Windows Vista Capable and Premium Ready PCs" page.

A computer that will start under Vista needs an 800MHz processor and 512MB RAM. That's just to get the machine to turn on.

If you want the "full Vista Experience" complete with the "Windows Aero User Experience," you need a bit more power in your box: 1GHZ processor, either 32-bit or 64-bit, 1GB RAM, 40GB hard drive with 15GB free space (yes, it takes fifteen gigs of disk to load this OS), a DirectX 9-compatible graphics card, internet access and a DVD-ROM drive.

It has been my experience that any Microsoft OS needs at least twice what Microsoft says it needs if you want to run software on it, so this is PROBABLY the actual configuration you must have to successfully run Windows Vista: 3GHz 64-bit processor, 4GB RAM, 300GB hard drive, broadband internet access, at least one 1600x1280 video card (two preferred) and mouse with scroll wheel.

That's going to run the price of a Vista PC up way higher than anything Microsoft can do to it--especially when the price of RAM goes through the roof as people start buying so much of it.

[The Cleaner]

37. BINGO. As I understand it, you need a 64-bit processor

to run Vista. The new 64-bit systems are coming out in December or January I believe. I also believe the shift from 32 bit to 64 bit is a big deal in the computer world.

So...not only is Vista expensive but you need to buy a new computer to run it it appears.

I wanted to buy a new computer recently but am holding off because of this.

[The Cleaner]

35. When will the public REBEL against this tyranny? They never fail to give the public the SCROOGIE.

I am personally SICk and TIREd of these kinds of shenanigans from the tech companies, which literally force you to pay more and more for this technology.

I'm still on Mac OS 9.2, limited in some ways but dread the thought of purchasing a new system. Already it was HELL trying to find a new printer that was compatible and even that one wasn't supported by HP anymore even though it was BRAND NEW.

[undeterred]

40. If they would release a well tested, finished product

without so many bugs, it would be worth it. The constant updates are a pain in the ass.

[entanglement]

41. OEMs should protest - This is gouging, plain and simple

n/t

[Nabia2004]

42. I haven't even upgraded to XP yet, why would I need Vista?

Windows 2000 Pro has been doing me fine but I understand support has ended for it.

[NorthernSpy]

45. just build your own computer, and install Linux on it...

That's what I did, and I've never regretted it. I started with a new processor, new mainboard, and new RAM. But every other component was just stuff pulled out of junked PCs. I've been replacing the old stuff piece by piece as finances have allowed.

Building a system is honestly NOT difficult at all. You might have to do a little reading first. In one afternoon at the library, you can acquire -- for free! -- all the knowledge you need to build a good computer.

Most varieties of Linux install very easily now for the ordinary user. The great thing about Linux is that there's a very large and active community keeping it healthy and vigorous, and lots of really good software is available for Linux users.

Getting away from Microsoft is totally doable, even for people who've never dared to open up their desktop's case and peer inside.

[noiretextatique]

46. can you recommend a version of linux that is easy to use?

i'm building a new system and i've tried linux before, but i never could figure out how to use it...too lazy from using windows, i guess.
thanks.

[alfredo]

48. Ubuntu

http://www.ubuntu.com/

[noiretextatique]

52. thanks eom

[alfredo]

54. No biggie.

[kineneb]

49. Linux is the future in the third world

MS has already lost the OS war, they just haven't realized it yet. Vast populations in the third world are or will be using Linux on their computers. Why? One- because many of the computers to which they have access are built of older hardware and will not run the newer version of Windo$. Two- they cannot afford the OS and related software; open source is the only way they can join the "computer revolution."

Heck, I am not living in the third world and I use Linux, for the very reasons I have cited above. Linux gives a longer life to older hardware, such as my still-functional IBM Thinkpad 600E- anything newer than Win98 would slow it to a stop, whereas I am able to continue using it while running Linux. Also, being on a fixed income means that paying for software upgrades is simply not possible.

[BlooInBloo]

47. Just outta curiousity: Has ANY new commercial OS been cheaper than...

... the version it replaces?

Ever? In the history of commercial OS'es?

Thanks!

[alfredo]

51. It's not that they raised the price it's how much

they raised it and that their basic home edition is in some's opinion, crippleware. Add to that the cost to some to upgrade their hardware to meet minimum requirements.

It wouldn't be a big thing if the business community wasn't so dependent on MS products.

[NYC Liberal]

53. Well Mac OS X 10.0 cost $129 and 10.1 (a huge update) was free.

[boolean]

50. Just pirate it....

Honestly...

[DireStrike]

55. A bigger, fatter, slower, more expensive OS...

My win2k pro is still not TOO out of date for me... thank goodness.