Myths about minimum wage

[undergroundpanther]

Why do Republicans ignore the evidence?
Well, let's see. A minimum wage hike has been proposed. Republicans say it will cost jobs. Yet, the last few times the minimum wage has been raised, unemployment actually DROPPED after a short slowdown that lasted only a few months. What is going on here -- are Republicans merely morons who ignore the evidence of their eyes, or are they deliberately lying to us?

http://badtux.org/home/eric/grumblings/minwage.php

RICHMOND, Va., Aug. 29 (UPI) -- Researchers say the national rate of severe poverty in the United States has increased rapidly since 2000.

The percentage of Americans living in severe poverty -- those earning less than half of the poverty threshold -- grew by 20 percent between 2000 and 2004, up by about 3.6 million people.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/upi/index.php?feed

Does this mean capitalism cares? Hardly.

But it does illustrate how the profit motive is often incompatible with public health.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=3926
Share...
http://www.stwr.net/content/view/1161/37/
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World federalism will be achieved in the 21st century partly because during the 20th century, more millionaires were converted to "fair competition" libertarian economics. So long as the ruthless competition of oligarchic markets persist, everybody except the most ruthless suffer, thus essentially resembling the war system. Moreover, ruthless competition breeds creeping centralization, the precursor to ecocide. As the Establishments recognize the benefits of fair competition and cherishing diversity, hope for world federalism can increase.
http://home.comcast.net/~decentralist/asphrg092000.htm

[izzie]

1. Even with proof they say the same thing. Always have.

I guess if you say thing over and over people believe it. I heard all sort of things like that when we know they are not true. Seems it has always been like that.

[ovidsen]

2. You're confusing people with FACTS!!

How DARE you???

[porphyrian]

3. If not morons, they are liars, both to themselves and everyone else. - n/t

[Warpy]

4. Another fact they never face is that no businessman

has ever screamed for the minimum wage to be dropped back down. That's because, while he resents paying his own employees, he's noticed a huge increase in business from everybody else's employees.

Remember, the consumer economy is demand driven, not supply driven.

[Mythsaje]

7. I know it...

And this is the gaping hole in the whole "free market" Republican and Libertarian ideology. They just don't seem to get it.

[blurp]

13. Flawed logic

That's because, while he resents paying his own employees, he's noticed a huge increase in business from everybody else's employees.

But that increase in business is offset by increases in prices.


Remember, the consumer economy is demand driven, not supply driven.

The economy ultimately rests on supply and production. Everyone can demand. Fewer can supply and produce.

[Warpy]

14. Actually, it's not.

It's really too bad colleges are teaching only neoclassical economics because neoclassical economics is wrong.

You are exactly backwards. I know it's counterintuitive, but read some history and you'll see.

Of course, history is anathema to economists, all of whom have the conceit that they're blazing new trails and discovering new territory when they're only traveling a well trodden path and trying to redefine old concepts.

Supply side has never worked, doesn't work now, and will never work because no rich man ever handed out a job unless he had a poor man with money in his pocket waiting to buy the goods or services that job produces.

Think about it. Employment is not welfare. Employers don't hire people out of the goodness of their hearts, hoping customers will materialize when shelves are full. It's quite the opposite, no matter what the textbooks tell you.

[Odin2005]

17. Neo-classical "economists" ignore history because history destroys thier BS.

They make up "just-so" stories that lack historical context in order to prop up certain assumptions based on the need to purpetuate corporatist power.

[FormerDittoHead]

18. Agreed, but there are many colleges which teach economics correctly...

In college, WE learned economics both from history and from the endless charts which always failed once outside their "relevant ranges".

I would condition your statement by agreeing that it's really too bad that there are ANY colleges which teach only neoclassical economics, because it's wrong. I would further say that I find it curious where those instructors learned economics, at a masters level, to continue spreading such dated information.

Geeze, you don't have to go past the great depression to find out Say's law doesn't work.

The nail in the coffin for me is that Thomas Sowell, who often substitutes for RUSH LIMBAUGH, subscribes to Say's law. That's good enough for me to know it's WRONG.

[Warpy]

19. Right, if I'd never read economics or history

THAT would certainly do it for me.

:hi:

[bettyellen]

15. ridiculous. many american could damned well supply and produce- yet

their jobs are gone now.
offset, my ass. what drivel.

[Buzz Clik]

5. A perfect example of arrogance in ignorance:

http://www.capitolhillcoffeehouse.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8650

We're all idiots.

:cry:

[FormerDittoHead]

10. Great. Now I have to take a shower...

After having gotten "A's" in 4 semesters of economics, I really do wonder where these guys keep their "Rush Limbaugh Institute School of Economics" diplomas...

[pinto]

6. Interesting, and detailed review of the Minimum Wage issue (2004)

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_viewpoints_raising_minimum_wage_2004

VIEWPOINTS (Economic Policy Institute)

Opinion pieces and speeches by EPI staff and associates.

THIS TESTIMONY WAS GIVEN BEFORE THE U.S. HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE ON WORKFORCE EMPOWERMENT AND GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS ON APRIL 29, 2004.

Minimum Wage and Its Effects on Small Business

By Jared Bernstein


I sincerely thank the members of the committee for the opportunity to testify on this issue of great importance to working families.

As members of this panel are well aware, the federal minimum wage was introduced in the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938. At that time, and many times since, Congress has recognized the need for a policy that prevents market forces from driving the wage of our lowest paid workers below a level deemed to be minimal by Congress, and by our general sense of fairness and decency. Since it is not indexed to inflation, the buying power of the minimum wage declines unless our nation’s leaders enact an increase. Thankfully, numerous proposals to raise the minimum are currently under consideration and I speak to these specific proposals below.

<long snip>

Conclusion

Since the late 1930s, the Federal government has recognized the need for a national wage floor: a minimum wage level below which Congress will not allow wage offers to fall. Unless Congress acts, however, the value of this wage floor will fall behind both inflation and the general upward trend in living standards. In fact, as shown in Figure 1, we are in the midst of the second longest stretch in which Congress and the administration have failed to enact an increase in the minimum wage.

Two proposals are under debate, and I show above that both would cover fewer workers than the last increase enacted in 1996. In this regard, it is notable that following that last increase, low-wage workers faced an all-too-unique period of fast growing employment and earnings opportunities. Evidence presented above, along with much empirical labor economic analysis of this issue, reveal that such moderate increases as those that may soon be under consideration in the Senate have no measurable negative impacts on jobs. In addition, the gains from the increase will largely accrue to those in the bottom third of the income scale. With these empirical facts on the record, Congress should act quickly to raise the wage floor in support of our lowest paid workers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jared Bernstein is senior economist at the Economic Policy Institute in Washington, D.C.

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/webfeatures_viewpoints_raising_minimum_wage_2004

[FormerDittoHead]

8. Minimum wage is a perfect issue to illustrate the Republican position...

It illustrates their short term, self centered, economically ignorant, racist, sycophant to the rich "philosophy" to a tee.

[upi402]

9. They still buy the BS about defict, taxes too n/t

:banghead:

[Boojatta]

11. Why not have a lower minimum wage where the cost of living is lower?

Yet, the last few times the minimum wage has been raised, unemployment actually DROPPED after a short slowdown that lasted only a few months.

That doesn't establish cause and effect. Maybe raising the minimum wage caused unemployment to drop. Maybe not.

Why should there be a one-size-fits-all minimum wage?

[bettyellen]

16. but it DOES disprove the myth it causes higher unemployment....

and states often do have a higher minimum wage- i don't know how much more local you want to get.
but i haven't seen one decent honest and fact based argument against a national minimum yet.

[blurp]

12. WRONG. You have to look at the rate for low-skill workers.

Not just overall unemployment.