Lieberman and McCain on MTP: Pseudo-Moderates and the BushCo. Blue Dress Moment

[CorpGovActivist]

I am a moderate. I espouse moderation. I espouse giving one's political and policy opponents a fair hearing - often, better policy ends up being produced that way.

The apologist, water-carrying tripe that John McCain is trial ballooning on MTP today - that's not moderation. McCain was MIA for the past 6 years (and he had more than enough stature to stand up to Shrubya). I say that as someone who voted for and supported McCain in the '00 primaries. If McCain thinks the same independents who supported him in '00 are waiting for his Second Coming, he's going to find that he's got fewer fishes and loaves he needs to prepare for each rally. McCain is going to embarrass himself if he even tries.

The hypnotic, sleep-inducing whine that Joe Lieberman is droning on MTP today - that's not moderation, either. Moderates are passionate - well, effective ones are, anyway. The true test for Lieberman will be when Bush's Blue Dress Moment happens: what will Joe do when the irrefutable evidence of the Bush Family Crime Syndicate's racketeering and war profiteering is trotted out for the American people?

Will he be at least as tough on W as he was on Clinton?

- David A. Smith, Editor of www.HALwhistleblowers.org AND www.BushBunglesBrigade.org
(not to be confused, ever again, with David R. Smith, the as-yet-unindicted VP of Tax at Halliburton, my former employer)

P.S. "Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. ... Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue." -- Barry Goldwater

[niallmac]

1. One way or other, moderately or radically we need

to insure that the trangressions pulled off by Bushco are recognized
by future admins, Dem, Rebub or 'Other' as carrying severe penalites.

They attempted to shred our Constitution.
It's only a piece of god damned paper perhaps
but it's all we've got.

[CorpGovActivist]

2. Extremism in the Defense of Liberty...

... is no vice. Moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.

There are some principles that will radicalize even the most moderate of moderates.

George Washington was no bomb-lobbing, wild-eyed radical, after all!

; )

- Dave

[niallmac]

26. Dang. That was the quote I was looking for.

Good on ya.
:-)

[burythehatchet]

3. On what date will Lieberman jump the aisle?

I predict it will be the first time that Dems stand up to bush, Joe officially becomes a Republicon.

[CorpGovActivist]

4. I Think the Democratic Leadership Will - and Should - Give Joe the Chance...

... to see the evidence that will be presented.

They will - and should - give him a chance to see that his legacy, should he obstruct the Senate's justice, will be one of a turncoat and a traitor.

Joe Lieberman's flip would not be perceived by history in the same way as Jim Jeffords' flip - and I think that, if they treat him with respect - the Democratic leadership can shore up Joe's support for plowing ahead with the Senate investigations, and thereby keep that flip from happening.

- Dave

[stillcool]

27. Joe Lieberman is a member...

of the "Cover-up-Wing" of the democratic party. Now that he's independent, I think he's moved on to pure propaganda...I wouldn't count on him for anyhing...he has proven where his interests lie.

[CorpGovActivist]

30. Well, I Still Think Joe's Self-Interest/Legacy Interest...

... may be enough to keep him from making mischief, at the very least.

- Dave

[conscious evolution]

35. What would happen if you enterd Joe's name

in those search engines you posted links to?
I bet the results would be interesting

[CorpGovActivist]

36. Which Ones in Particular?

The FEC?

; )

- Dave

[conscious evolution]

37. That one too.

[CorpGovActivist]

38. What Others?

Which other search tools did you have in mind with respect to Joe Lieberman?

During the transition, the Democratic Senate leadership has the ability to get him squarely on the same page - and even give him an easy "out" on any obligations he might have to the GOP for this last election cycle.

- Dave

[conscious evolution]

39. Here's one

http://www.sec.gov/edgar/searchedgar/webusers.htm

Still digging here.I wish I was better at search's.

[WiseButAngrySara]

5. Lieberman has to already be aware of the BFEE's crimes...

have you ever heard him condemn B* for anything?

"Will he be at least as tough on W as he was on Clinton?"

The answer is obvious....

[CorpGovActivist]

6. Joe's Legacy...

... I have to believe that Joe Lieberman is aware that - in this day and age - the irrefutable evidence coming out in the same news cycle as his flip would ensure that Americans of all stripes understand that he is playing defense for the BushCo. Crime Family Syndicate.

Senators who once dreamed of higher office grow concerned with *their own* legacy.

- Dave

[here_is_to_hope]

7. I too once liked

McCain but these days, he leaves a bad taste in my mouth...as to Joe, eeeuuuwwww, just slimey IMO.

[CorpGovActivist]

8. McCain Will Have Former Supporters...

... following him around on the campaign trail, demanding answers.

As for Joe - the Dems should treat him with utmost respect, I think. Give him a "sneak preview" of the broad contours of the investigative strategy, and give him just enough of a peek at it for him to make a rational, self-interested decision to stay put on the winning team.

- Dave

[Buzz Clik]

9. McCain and Lieberman are now extremists?

Good gawd. Hyperbole to the max.

So, if McCain is not a moderate, what does that make Santorum? Limbaugh? Cheney?

And you're putting Lieberman in the same package? The very fact that you mention McCain (a professed conservative) and Lieberman (former candidate for VP -- remember?) in the same post should tell you something.

Given an opportunity, I would have supported McCain over Bush. And I voted for Lieberman as part of the 2000 ticket. Although I am disappointed with both of them for various reasons, it is not because they have suddenly morphed into extremists.

[CorpGovActivist]

10. No, They're Pseudo-Moderates...

... not extremists. Please re-read the OP.

- Dave

P.S. I had - and took - the opportunity to vote for McCain in 00, and had - and took - the opportunity to vote for Lieberman in 04.

[Buzz Clik]

11. I read it. It needed explanation. It still does.

The bottom line is you are making a bizarre attempt to pigeon-hole two politicians who have disappointed you. You were smart enough to not call them extremists in the OP (you did that in a later post in a vague fashion); instead they are "pseudo-moderates."

"Moderate" is not a political party or an ideology. Being a moderate is, by definition, not being extreme. Most people reading your "pseudo-moderate" label as a suggestion that they are extremists. That leaves the question: What are you trying to say?

[CorpGovActivist]

13. No, I Quoted a Barry Goldwater Quote...

... in which the word extremism is used.

These two have been lukewarm, or just outright missing. That's not what moderates are all about.

Good moderates take into account all viewpoints, then they act based on that input - and are present, accounted for, and declarative about their position.

- Dave

[Buzz Clik]

15. Ah, now it comes out. They truly are moderates, but not "good" moderates.

In other words, because you don't like their respective public profiles and activism (or your perceived lack thereof), you have rejected them as "moderates."

whatever

[CorpGovActivist]

16. They're Not Moderates...

... and they're not mavericks, either.

- Dave

[Kire]

12. Reid and Pelosi declined their invitations

I wonder why

[CorpGovActivist]

14. Which Invitations?

I missed that - very interesting.

- Dave

[Kire]

17. MTP invited Reid and Pelosi

they declined

it was the last thing Russert said

[CorpGovActivist]

18. Oh, Gotcha...

... I tend to flip the channel by the time Russert gets to plugging other NBC programming.

I missed that. Interesting, though: I'm sure Pelosi and Reid have plenty on their plates for the transition - why subject themselves to premature questioning about "what's first on the agenda"?

- Dave

[Kire]

19. I think somebody said Reid was on Face the Nation

I don't know what Pelosi is doing.

[Blackhatjack]

20. This is a paraphrase of tale w/moral that applies here....

It has to do with integrity and the appearance of integrity, which are not the same thing.

Can a man slap the hand of one who feeds him in times of hunger? Not likely.
And when that man, who accepted the donor's gift of food in times of hunger, is faced with a vote of conscience will his decision to support the position held by his donor be accepted by the public as impartial when they know he owes his life to his donor?

In the case at hand, Lieberman received support and money from Republicans to wage an independent campaign to reclaim his senate seat after he lost the Democratic Primary. Without their help, he would not have been reelected.

So the question becomes, can he "slap the Republican hand" that helped put him in office again?
Jury is out on this one.

Can Lieberman be accepted by the Public as "acting out of conscience" when he supports the Republican position, knowing that he owes his continued political life to them?
The public appearance of bias in his alignment with Republicans cannot be dispelled b/c of the facts.

Unless Lieberman demonstrates an act of conscience by voting in opposition to the Republicans who put him in office, there is always going to be that public doubt --and he will remain damaged in his credibility and effectiveness.

"You will be known by the dogs you run with" is Lieberman's legacy, like it or not.
We will see who "he runs with" in the new Congress, and we will eventually have our answer.

[here_is_to_hope]

21. Well said....

""You will be known by the dogs you run with" is Lieberman's legacy, like it or not."
And that will haunt Joe forever.

[Blackhatjack]

22. I've Never Known Republicans To Give Anything W/O Expectation of Return

... on their investment.

You can bet that Lieberman is in for 'pressure' if he crosses Republican pet positions.

I think Joe's ego will inflate, thinking himself a 'king maker' in a closely divided Senate. However, it is also possible he will quickly find himself 'marginalized' by both sides who believe he has abandoned their expectations for him remaining supportive of their core positions.

He could be the "lonely independent" if several more seats 'switch' in the Senate increasing the DEM's majority number.

[CorpGovActivist]

32. Two Years...

... are all Joe gets - if that. If he makes a complete ass out of himself, he'll find that, come '08, he's persona non grata in the caucus.

- Dave

[CorpGovActivist]

31. I Guess My Take...

... on that is that there can be influence brought to bear, to help remind Joe that the pack with the best bones to share are his old pack.

; )

- Dave

[conscious evolution]

23. Do you think the two

are being presented as moderates so they can be nominated for higher office?
Did poppie step in as a direct result of what you and Ide's are up to?

[CorpGovActivist]

33. McCain Is Now Freed up...

... to gear up for the '08 run. He carried all the BushCo. water he could carry - and much more than he should have. He's going to fizzle out in '08.

Joe Lieberman is front and center (right now) because of the Senate math, and no other reason, really. If the Dems had eked out two fewer seats, he'd be much less interesting to the MSM.

That's my take on that.

As for the frantic defense plays being mounted by the 41ers, they're much too late.

- Dave

[Roland99]

24. Why don't they go marry each other. Such a cute political whore couple!

[WinkyDink]

25. A quote by Barry Goldwater here? I think I'll go play "Barry's Boys".

Chad Mitchell Trio.

We're the bright young men
Who want to go back to nineteen-ten
We're Barry's boys.
We're the kids with a cause
Yes a government like grandmama's
We're Barry's boys.
We're the new kind of youth at your Alma Mater
Back to silver standards and solid Goldwater
Back to when the poor were poor and rich were rich
And you felt so damn secure just knowing which were which.

http://sniff.numachi.com/pages/tiBARRYBOY.html

[CorpGovActivist]

29. Why Not?

Plenty of historical figures with whom I don't see eye-to-eye have had at least one thought I've agreed with.

In John Adams v. Thomas Jefferson, which partisan bandwagon did you jump on, rejecting all quotes from the other side?

; )

- Dave

[Buttercup McToots]

28. Good Mornin`

:)

[CorpGovActivist]

34. Mornin`, Ma'am

: )

- Dave