About Iran Contra...

[texpatriot2004]

Poppy's people are rushing in to "save" Dubya. Many of these people were part of Iran Contra. I read this is bringing up "old wounds" in Congress now; as well it should.

I was younger when Iran Contra was in the news and on the stand. I know that those involved did not get what they deserved. Wasn't Ollie North the only one that got a slap on the hand?

Do you suppose that someone or even more than one person still has evidence about Iran Contra? Can it still be produced so many years later? Can the issue be raised again? Can there be legal action or would this be like double jeopardy?

I guess this criminal regime just doesn't know anyone who is not steeped in scandal. It was wrong to bring Gates into the picture now. And Baker is a horrid human being; he is currently representing the Saudis against Americans in the 9-11 situation and he and his firm represent Halliburton. Baker is bad on so many levels.

Iran Contra was about gun-running and drugs and what else?

Thanks for the information and any resources you can provide.

BTW who were all they players in that scandal?

[Captain Hilts]

1. Iran Contra was about the privatization of foreign policy. To avoid oversight.

That's why it was so important.

[Blue_In_AK]

2. I think the much-maligned John Kerry

probably knows as much about Iran-Contra and BCCI as anybody.

[texpatriot2004]

3. I know that is true. He was the only one to take on that fight. nm

[AntiFascist]

16. which is probably why he is "much maligned" by DLC no less...

who has acted as an enabler if not worse.

[Blue_In_AK]

22. I couldn't agree more. :)

[Captain Hilts]

27. Kerry really went after BCCI and doesn't get credit for it. nt

[eleny]

4. Weinberger was pardoned in advance

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardonsex5.htm

From the above site:

"Today I am exercising my power under the Constitution to pardon former Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger and others for their conduct related to the Iran-Contra affair."

and

"I have also decided to pardon five other individuals for their conduct related to the Iran-Contra affair: Elliott Abrams, Duane Clarridge, Alan Fiers, Clair George, and Robert McFarlane."

[Democrats_win]

5. Selling guns to terrorists (Iran) giving the profits to terrorists (Contras)

Giving money to the terrorist Contras was strictly forbidden by the Democratic Congress. Dealing with the terrorists in Iran was against the law because the Iranian terrorists attacked the U.S. embassy in Iran and held Americans hostage.

[texpatriot2004]

6. Hmm, so how did it come to pass? It was done in secret until

it was exposed?

How did they get around the Congress? For how long?

[Democrats_win]

11. Lebanese newspaper reported the sale. Israel was an important middleman.

That helped keep it secret.

Wikipedia has great info on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra

[Dover]

25. Hmmm...interesting. I never heard about Clinton's involvement before.

From Wikepedia:

As reported in The Wall Street Journal on January 29, 1997 <19>, activities at the Mena, Arkansas airport allegedly involved then-governor Bill Clinton in a coverup of illegal drug-trading activity. The Wall Street Journal article goes on to state.

[moodforaday]

31. Craig Unger alludes to this

in House of Bush, House of Saud, though I don't recall him making any specific accusations. But google "Clinton Mena drugs".

[karynnj]

32. I never knew that was reported in the WSJ

I knew the drugs were flown to Mena - but not that there was any proof that Clinton knew.

Maybe his wife should say that letting cocaine into the country and not speaking truth to power on it was - inaappropriate.

[bananas]

17. also Congressman Jim Wright went to Nicaragua on a fact-finding mission

when he came back the Republicans launched an ethics investigation war on the Democrats. It was horrible.

[bananas]

18. and CIA pilot Eugene Hassenfus confessed on live TV after shot down over Nicaragua

you can't make this stuff up - Ollie North said in his testimony something to the effect of "I thought you guys knew what I was doing - everybody knew - it was even on the front page of Pravda"

[karynnj]

30. As you said it was done in secret

subverting the will of Congress.

[autorock]

7. Actually the Contas were given weapons as well

It wasn't just money that Reagan and his slimeballs in the NSC gave to the terrorists in Nicaragua.

The weapons that were shipped via airlifts into Nicaragua were used to kill thousands as well as blow up harbors, ports, roads, and other public works.

This is why Nicaraguans think of Reagan as a butcher.

[sam sarrha]

20. the guns were traded for Cocaine that cause the disintegration of the LA black & Latino communities

and caused massive disintegration of the USA's economy sending Trillion$ over the decades out of the country.. and there is nothing big and shinny to account for where it went.. we were bought up by the cartels.

[The Deacon]

8. Several Did Get Convicted

Ollie North got off (after being convicted) because the info which lead to the evidence against him was from testimony he'd received Congressional immunity for - unfortunately, even Right Wing nutjobs have Constitutional rights (they may want to deny them to others but I'll fight for their rights anyway.)
Quick synopsis - the Reagan Administration traded weapons for hostages (against American policy) sending high-tech replacement parts to Iran (against Federal Law) and used the money (which should have gone to the U.S. Treasury) to support the "Contras" in Nicaragua (when Congress had banned U.S. government aid to them with the Borland Amendment) while using a quasi-private network (a violation of both the Neutrality Act & the Trading With The Enemy Act.) The CIA-funded air cargo group Carib Air was used by the Contra leaders to smuggle cocaine into the U.S. (the planes, being CIA-run, were not inspected by Customs & the pilots hired by the CIA were mostly ex-drug smugglers.) Ollie North & his secretary Fawn Hall admitted to shredding documents which were under subpoena from Congress (Fawn Hall smuggled some out in her underwear) violating Federal laws on destruction of evidence.
But it is all okay - most of them later were able to land jobs as high paid consultants to the George W. Bush Administration (John Poindexter, for instance) or as commentators (Ollie North, for example.)
Ain't America grand?

[texpatriot2004]

9. Wasn't the Carlysle group involved? Or were they just the same

people involved in Iran Contra and also Carlysle group?

[salin]

24. Carlyle was formed later... by many of the principles from the IC scandal.

[H2O Man]

10. Iran-Contra

is an extensive series of crimes and scandals. There are a number of good sources of information that document most of the events from that era. It is worth our while to read and discuss these texts.

[H2O Man]

12. Of interest ....

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/

[H2O Man]

13. Regarding Gates ...

http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/walsh/chap_16.htm

[texpatriot2004]

14. Wow! Thanks H20, I appreciate the link nm

[H2O Man]

15. There is a lot

of fascinating information there.

[bananas]

19. Who was the congressman trying to get active duty benefits for the US soldiers

that served in Central America? Because it was "covert" they couldn't get the full benefits they deserved. He was a (R) from California, can't remember his name.

[texpatriot2004]

29. So, let's see if I am understanding this

first of all, Ronnie Raygun didn't like the party in charge of Nicaragua so he decided to embrace their opponents, the contras.

second, there was appartently a rule in place here not to fund Nicaragua for certain political reasons.

third, Iran Contra was a way around # 2.

Very simplistic, too simplistic I am sure but is this where it all begins?

[sam sarrha]

21. cia chief cassy allegedly got brain cancer and the memory part of his brain was removed before he

testify.. and Reagan got Alzheimer's.. and Oile got pardoned

other key people were found dead.. with no explanation of what killed them.. i guess they got new identies..

[salin]

23. here is a point that is rarely included in reportage

Congress was growing uncomfortable with Reagan's policies in Central America - and with direct/indirect support for the Contras. The House passed a law (?) preventing ANY US money (remember the house as the power of appropriations) to direct or indirect support for the Contras and the war in Nicaragua. Everything that followed was all about intentionally going around the House and the law. All of it was illegal. The scheme to sell arm (illegally) to get the cash to (illegally) funnel to the Contras (illegally).

I was in the basement of the house on the day of the vote - watching from a basement office for CSPAN (the folks watching the monitors let me sneak in and watch). Indelible in my memory.

[texpatriot2004]

26. good point nm

[omega minimo]

28. .

[Disturbed]

33. Old man Bush claimed that he was "out of loop" on all of the

Iran Contra actions. He was never under any serious under oath questioning. Yeah, he knew nothing. :eyes:

Raygun in a Video Taped questioning said "I don't recal 132 times. He went on TV claimed responsibilty and apologized. Case closed.