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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:50 PM
Original message
OOPS False Alarm.
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 03:02 PM by lonestarnot
When I went to KOS, I hit an old link. Thought I was on the front page. There is nothing new here. Sorry Folks, my appologies!


Kids sodomized at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has the videos - Hersh
by Gryn
Wed Jul 14, 2004 at 08:33:32 PM PST
(From the diaries -- kos)

Seymour Hersh says the US government has videotapes of boys being sodomized at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
"The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," the reporter told an ACLU convention last week. Hersh says there was "a massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there, and higher."

This is a summary of Hersh speaking at the ACLU 2004 America At A Crossroads conference according to EdCone.com (via Oliver Willis). I verified by watching the video myself (it starts at 1:07, the "worse stuff" part starts at 1:30).
There's more bad stuff in here, read Ed Cone's summary.

I'll try transcribing some of the more important bits.



Some of the worse that happened that you don't know about, ok. Videos, there are women there. Some of you may have read they were passing letters, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib which is 30 miles from Baghdad <...>
The women were passing messages saying "Please come and kill me, because of what's happened". Basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys/children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. The worst about all of them is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror it's going to come out.

It's impossible to say to yourself how do we get there? who are we? Who are these people that sent us there?

Chilling.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's very old news that Sy has seen the videos (as well as members of Congress) *and*
Rumsfeld has seen them.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Yes I know, but either part or all of the video has never been
released. There is a video link there, but I'm afraid to look.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Perhaps a link to the Kos entry you found?
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crikkett Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. well do you think that the story will get some traction now?
even if the story is old to you it's news to others, and MSM might be more receptive (ick) to it now.
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. If Abu Ghraib is news to others, they've been living under a rock. Even the OP is from 2004.
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wholetruth00 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Old news but a new Congress. If they don't investigate this and charge
those responsible they are no better than the evildoers they replaced. How can evangelicals and other so-called Christians uphold this kind of behavior even from our own troops? Talk about sons and daughters dying in vain. If this continues to be covered up this whole f***ing war was in vain. And this kind of cover up dishonors our dead soldiers more than anything any Dem has said.
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wholetruth00 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
2. Heads should roll for the actions and war crimes should be charged for those who
covered this up. Even if it goes to the top of the WH!
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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Self Delete...
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 03:13 PM by Hubert Flottz
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WindRavenX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. really, really, really inappropriate
Seriously, I love black humor, but for fuck's sake these are KIDS, not just MINORS, that are getting brutally VIOLATED by fucking Amerian troops.

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Hubert Flottz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I know what you are saying, but I'm serious.
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 03:04 PM by Hubert Flottz
I know that Rumsfield and other government officials were there when this stuff was going on. Who dreamed this kind of stuff up?

BTW, I never meant to try and be funny about this.

Edit... Out of all the things that the Bush gang has done so far nothing made me more angry than the torture of unarmed POWs. NOTHING! One other thing...not everyone who was torturing these people were American soldiers. It's my understanding also, that some of the torturers were contractors and CIA people.
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Dangerously Amused Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
9. How did the video finally get out?




Does anyone know?


I hope investigating this and castrating the perpetrators and those who covered it up is at the top of Pelosi's agenda.


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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. I don't believe it is. The diary referenced in the OP is from July 2004
Edited on Sun Nov-12-06 03:02 PM by Roland99
If it was out, it would be HUGE news and every liberal blogger would be blasting it out there.


I even saw Hersh here in Louisville in March 2005 and he discussed what was on the video:

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/03/04/an-audience-with-seymour-hersh/

The Iraqi resistance has the government wired. They have people in various key areas of the government. Hersh made a point of emphasizing that. In the meantime, American intelligence about the resistance remains at about the same level as it did eighteen months ago, scattered and incomplete. This lack of intelligence is what led to wholesale roundups of suspected members of the resistance (for a prime example of how house-to-house searches were conducted, see the Extra Features on the Fahrenheit 9/11 DVD. Specifically, the interview with the Swedish journalist who went along with American troops on house-to-house searches in Samarra.) Most of the detainees were kept in Abu Ghraib. Abu Ghraib has a notorious reputation amongst Iraqis. It is the site of the most heinous acts against prisoners by Saddam Hussein and his supporters during his reign. The Americans at Abu Ghraib, however, took things even further. Aside from the heinous actions involving beatings, using dogs trained to bite the groin areas, and even outright murder, one aspect that has raised the ire amongst Iraqis, Muslims, and others around the world, is the sexual abuse levied against the prisoners. Hersh prefaced this segment of his speech by stating that those involved in the actual application of abuse and torture in Abu Ghraib were not just acting out of ignorance or out of being victims of circumstance (understaffing an over-crowded prison.) On the contrary, the specific actions taken had to only be at the behest of people in charge of the intelligence gathering in Iraq. This goes all the way to the White House.

Hersh went into a bit of detail in the drafting of the so-called Torture Memo by Jay Bybee approved by now-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and consulted by now-Secretary of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff. This Torture Memo was written with one goal in mind, creating a narrowly defined term of torture that would allow the Bush administration a great amount of latitude in its techniques for obtaining information. This all began with abuse and torture of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Some of the detainees at Guantanamo were elderly men, as old as being in their 80s, who were in no way a part of Al Qaeda or the Taliban in Afghanistan. When these innocent people were finally released, some released more than two years after being captured, Hersh opined, if they were not enemies of America before, they were now. U.S. techniques were creating more enemies and were resulting in useless information as detainees were confessing to anything in order to stop the torture and abuse.

At Abu Ghraib, the Bush administration orchestrated policies that were focused on humiliating detainees through sexual means. In the Muslim world, sex is an incredibly taboo subject. Men are not allowed to touch women in certain situations, being seen naked or forced to perform certain sexual acts brings shame upon a family that, in Muslim society, is a sentence worse than death. This was surely known by members of the Bush administration that recruited people to setup and train officers and interrogators at the prisons. We now know that five key men all had severe human rights abuses in their past careers in running prisons here in America. This was surely known by Ashcroft, despite the statements otherwise by the DOJ Inspector General. Hersh was also made aware of first-hand stories from former detainees of Abu Ghraib. He found that some woman at Abu Ghraib were so ashamed of the sexual abuse to which they were submitted that they sent messages to their family and friends to kill them when they came to visit them in the prison or when they were released. They were so ashamed of what was done to them or what they saw that they preferred to be killed than to live with the shame. Other prisoners were intimidated by the taking of photos of them in various sexual positions. These photos were used as carrots to get the prisoners to join the resistance report back to the officers with intelligence on the resistance. Failure to do so meant that the photos would be disseminated around their village and they would forever be shamed. The actual group in charge of Abu Ghraib was previously involved in traffic control and could not have known of the extreme taboo surrounding Muslims and sexual abuses. These orders had to have come from above.

The abuses at Abu Ghraib are also leaving an indelible mark in the psyche of the “worker-bee” soldiers ordered to take the photos and carry out some of the abuses. An example is the case of a female soldier who returned to the States, Indiana, specifically, from Iraq. Her mother noticed a marked change in her daughter’s attitude. The soldier’s condition worsened and wouldn’t even talk or meet with her mother. The mother, however, did come across a CD during a visit to her daughter’s home. On that CD was a folder named “Iraq” and it contained many photos of the abuses that occurred in Abu Ghraib. As a reaction to the stress, this female soldier had been consistently going to a tattoo parlor and had been having her body covered in black tattoos.


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pnorman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
13. Unless a link to those videos is available,
I find that subject line somewhat misleading. We've all been hearing about those videos for a couple of years now, and probably most here regard Seymour Hersh as a highly credible source, but .........

pnorman
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Garbo 2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
14. .Link to 2004 Kos thread:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/14/193750/666

The video link in the diary is a video of Hersh's speech

The Abu Ghraib video Hersh refers to in 2004 has not been released.

When posting excepts from another site, please provide a link to the site.
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