Impeachment...or Resignation?

[Plaid Adder]

I just thought of this on the way to church this morning: Now that we have Congress back, I think it's possible that depending on how things go, George W. could wind up resigning.

First of all, if you look at the pictures of him that came out last week, it's clear that George W. is miserable. I think he's been pretty miserable for his entire second term, actually; but as long as he still had Congress and he had an assuiduous cabal of flatterers in the White House he could still pretend he was doing a good job and having a good time. But from his point of view, I think the presidency has always been a toy, and now he realizes that he played too rough with it and it's broken. And that's why he's gone whining to his dad asking him to fix it.

All Bush's life, his business ventures have followed the same pattern: 1) His parents pay to set him up with some establishment; 2) He runs it into the ground; 3) He quits and his dad's people bail him out. The presidency is just the last in this series of terms. Stage 1 was the 2000 election; stage 2 has been unfolding over the last 6 years; the firing of Rumsfeld and advent of Gates, Eagleburger and James Baker III signify the onset of Stage 3. Cheney is one of his dad's people. Assuming the people around him don't try too hard to talk him out of it--and why would they, it's clear now that Bush is ballot-box poison and his coattails have been dipped in hydrochloric acid and are on fire--I can see him deciding, once Saddam Hussein has been executed, that he's tired of this job and he's going to quit and move out to Crawford where he can clear brush all day long. Cheney can then handle the fallout just as daddy's boys have always done with all of his other failures.

And, of course, if Bush resigns, Cheney can pardon him.

Cheney, of course, is going to be the target of many a subpoena once the new Congress takes over. So who knows, maybe he also will suddenly feel a need to spend more time with Lynne and Mary--especially since he must be almost as close to death now as Fidel Castro. From a party point of view, it would make a lot of sense to dump Cheney and appoint someone who could run as the heir presumptive in 2008. McCain, maybe.

Anyway, who knows what will end up happening; but the main thing is that even though Pelosi and Conyers are trying to avoid the "I" word, there is a lot of noise being made about accountability and oversight--and clearly we have a mandate for THAT, if for nothing else. I would counsel the people who are getting concerned about the impeachment question to be patient. There will be investigations; and any investigation WILL strike paydirt. You cannot swing a cat on Capitol Hill now without hitting evidence of Republican corruption. There will be impeachments, indictments, and resignations aplenty. Give it time.

Me, if I were going to pick one guy to impeach, it wouldn't be Bush. It would be Cheney. He's clearly the dirtiest guy in this administration and he's also clearly the one in charge. And I think that we would learn a lot more from the investigation into _his_ crimes and misdemeanors than we would from impeaching Bush.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[TOhioLiberal]

1. Well said...

Kicked and recommended!

[texpatriot2004]

2. I agree about impeaching the veep. Let's make history, shall we.

Also, I think there will be many, many resignations and why wouldn't Dubya quit, it's what he has always done once his endeavor du jour is sufficiently run into the ground. It's "hard werk" you know.

[KyndCulture]

3. K and R!

Excellent assessment.

[williesgirl]

4. Impeach Darth, let crybaby resign - recommended for your excellent thoughts

[Eurobabe]

5. These two assholes will never resign by their own accord

They've done nothing wrong, why they're making 'Murica safer!!

We'll have to drag them out kicking and screaming.

[NanceGreggs]

6. Agreed on all points.

K & R!


And I think Bush will resign. He only enjoyed this little game of playing president as long as he was surrounded by yes-men, who never questioned his policies, who acted as cheerleaders, who gave in to every childish whim.

Now, as throughout his life, the grown-ups have to be called in to try and clean up his mess. And he's got two full years of constant criticism (and scolding from poppy and his friends) ahead of him.

Methinks Lil' Georgie is going to want to pick up his ball and go home.

[here_is_to_hope]

7. Agreed

"Me, if I were going to pick one guy to impeach, it wouldn't be Bush. It would be Cheney."
Me too. Evil he is, just plain Evil.

[Laelth]

8. I see resignation as very likely.

But we still need to show the American people that we have a spine. How can we ask them to trust us to protect them from terrorists if we won't even try to defend the Constitution of the United States from the Republican Party?

-Laelth

[civildisoBDence]

35. There are bound to be plenty of skeletons in those closets, and the Democrats

may well be biding their time until something impeachable pops up.

Pelosi was wise to dismiss impeachment...FOR NOW.

If the impeachment writing is ever on the wall, resignation is likely.

Newsprism

[AntiFascist]

9. There are many who feel that it is better to try to work with Bush...

in order to demonstrate that Democrats can govern prior to the 2008 election, in order to build up some political capital. This is the same as deciding to do business with a murderer because you could make a lot of money, rather than do the right thing and call the cops. Some of us are horrified by what Bush has done, others feel "oh he's not such a bad guy."

If he resigns then he will likely take Cheney with him. We should stand strong and be in a position to demand that Republicans put someone else in power who we can also do business with, for the good of the country.

[electropop]

29. It won't be the GOP's choice who replaces Bush & Cheney

If Cheney and Bush are impeached or "resigned" in that order, or preferably simultaneously, Nancy Pelosi is next in the line of succession.

[Liberty Belle]

10. Dems could also pressure him to resign, as Nixon did, to avoid impeachment.

[johnfunk]

11. "...if I were going to pick one guy to impeach.... It would be Cheney." HERE'S REASON 2:

If he says on as VP (I think he may resign), I believe Cheney WOULD be convicted in the Senate on charges of treason stemming from the exposure of over a dozen CIA agents and dozens of CIA assets in the Brewster Jennings (Valerie Plame) affair -- based entirely on PUBLIC, nonclassified information.

That would mean that the Senate and House would have to approve Cheney's replacement. Picture Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Speaker Nancy Pelosi marching over to the White House hours after Cheney is convicted and removed, and hand the Preznit a list of potential nominees that the leadership of Congress believes could be approved by a majority:

Albert S. Gore
John Edwards

And, of course, the new VP would be within his rights to assemble a "shadow Cabinet." Imagine Defense Advisor Wesley Clark, Housing Advisor Harold Ford Jr., Vets Affairs advisor Tammy Duckworth...

A guy can dream, can't he?

[kimmerspixelated]

12. Yes, well said.

Cheney is the evil one for sure, but they're both outta here! They'll never stand for impeachment proceedings or subpoenas or any of that stuff. They'll walk, or have a mock death situation, board a plane for Paraguay-never be seen again...But I think the American People, the ones that voted Dem on Tues. almost demand to see his/their head on a plate for the IRAQ catastrophe.The duo of horrors shouldn't be allowed to run away from their war crimes...maybe something , some plan other than impeachment at first, will nail them and capture them in more lies for all the world to see..... I don't think Pelosi, as seasoned as she is, is quite ready to be prez. I think she would be good, much better than Hilary, but, but whoaa Nellie, let her at least move into her new office first.

[Pyrzqxgl]

14. Impeach Cheney and Bush appoints McLain or brother Jeb

or maybe Jeb first and when Congress turns him down they settle on McLain in a compromise, setting him up for a run in '08. I'd rather keep both Bush and Cheney in office for the next two years where they can continue to embarass us and we can continue to rag on them. In '08 we elect a Democrat President (more Senators & Congresspeople too),

[arcane1]

13. I prefer conviction and excecution n/t

[Just-plain-Kathy]

30. They sure deserve it!!

Get rid of them both, thennnn ......President Pelosi :)

[madokie]

15. I like your way of thinking

I think that the investigations will indeed start and once they start all bets are off the table. So many possible crimes, some admittedly committed by the bush* cabal it will take a spell to sort them out for severity. All the while they are comfortable with doing business their way that they will surely commit many more fresh offenses to comb through. Barring a miracle the bush* crew is going down

[Jack Rabbit]

16. Fortunately, we don;t have to choose which of the two war criminals to impeach

I agree that Cheney is the more evil of the two. He wanted this war so that he could personally profit. There is is little for which Bush can be impeached that Cheney could not be impeached also; in addition, there are conflict of interest charges that may be brought against Cheney that Bush might have had nothing to do with.

Fortunately, in the real world we don't have to choose between whether to impeach one or the other.

I don't take seriously this "impeachment is off the table" rhetoric. There will be investigations; those investigations will uncover facts that will shock the American public. Bush lied and knew that he was lying; Cheney and Libby were strong arming analysts in Langley; Doug Feith was in the OSP making sure all the maybes and not reallies were edited out of intelligence reports before the information got into the NIE. They junta members may not have known that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, but they didn't know that Iraq had them at a time when they were publicly stating that it was a certainty. The evidence will be overwhelming. If the Republicans think they had a bad night of it Tuesday, just wait and see what they face if they vote to acquit these scoundrels.

Other than the outright collaboration of Norwegian Defense Minister Vudkin Quisling with foreign invaders of his country in 1940, it is difficult to imagine a greater betrayal of public trust that sending troops into combat against a nation that posed no threat and lying about the reasons for doing so. It is not just an impeachable offense; it is a war crime.

[crispini]

26. "I don't take seriously this "impeachment is off the table" rhetoric. "

Right on! I totally agree with your post. There WILL be investigations. Which is what makes it so hard for me to understand why people are getting all bent out of shape about this here on DU.

[timtom]

17. Prison, at the very least

Whatever it takes to get them all there.

[B Calm]

18. Time for him to quit. He's been a damn failure at everything he's done.

[mopinko]

19. nuremburg style impeachment

repeat after me- nuremburg style impeachment. it is the only thing that will truly get the job done.

[Hubert Flottz]

23. I agree!

They committed war crimes and they knew, that they were doing criminal things and went right ahead doing them.

[midnight]

20. You wouldn't be, Thad ,Plaid would you?

To answer your question I think either one would be acceptable. They have proven that they do not have the respect of human life, and have squaddered the resource of our precious soldiers lifes. I will have to agree that Dead Eye Dick seems to have had a bit more trainning via Nixon, but Bush is ever so equal in the corruption dept.

[progressive_realist]

21. My thoughts as well.

We already know Bush is a weak, weak man. Not only did he flee from military service, but he spent much of his adult life hiding in the bottom of a bottle. When he had a rubber stamp Congress, high approval ratings, and a righteous cause, he was on top of the world. But I’ve (painfully) watched his speeches steadily degenerate into near-hysteria over the past year. This is a man close to his breaking point – he will not be able to cope with serious opposition. I think his handlers have already figured this out, which is why his father’s friends Baker and Gates are suddenly rushing in to support him.

My personal theory is that Cheney will resign first (health reasons?) and get replaced by McCain. McCain is about the only Republican who is still respected by many Democrats (I don't understand why -- McCain epitomizes the term "weasel" and also the term "flip-flopper". Oh, and let's throw in "completely unprincipled, mercenary, lying sack of sh*t" while we are at it.). And he has the singular advantage of being about the only remaining Republican veteran in an era in which military prowess is idolized.

After Cheney, Bush goes and then the Repubs get to try to reframe their party in time for the 2008 election. But is anyone really going to fall for "compassionate conservatism" again?

Not if we do our job well in the next two years.

[H2O Man]

22. As Malcolm X said,

don't waste your time going after the puppet; go for the puppeteer. Impeach VP Cheney. Not only is he the more criminal of the two, but it would be far easier to make a stronger case against him. Add to that their relative popularity: though Bush's policies are unpopular, many still like the image that the media tells them is him. Cheney, on the other hand, is considered to be the most unpopular and repulsive liar in Washington, DC .... and the republican party would be happy to sacrifice him.

[leftchick]

25. That would be true justice

I would love to see him pay for his high crimes. Before his next heart attack.

[SeanQ]

24. Agreed!

Getting Cheney indicted ASAP would have far more popular support and be likely to produce vastly more useful incriminating evidence against others, including Bush. Disruption at that level would, I can only image, completely lame what remained of his presidency. And I expect that, with so many republicans in legal and ethics trouble, any even vaguely bi-partisan bill would get too much support for a veto to stop it.

And for now I'll just have pleasant dreams of Chaney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Rove etc someday doing the perp walk. But in the end, as long as they and their ilk are driven far, far from power, and their influence is broken, we have done what was needed to save our country!

[mmonk]

27. The threat usually induces a resignation

unless its a sham like the Clinton impeachment. So it's not necessarily either/or. The whole point of impeachment is to see if there is substantial reason to force him out of office. Resignation accomplishes this as well as Senate removal.

[westerebus]

28. the Deal

"They" will not impeachment Bush. The deal is right in front of you. Baker-Hamilton Committe will give cover to withdraw the troops,Rumsfield resigns,Bush will not attack Iran as long as impeachment is off the table. This is not about what we want its about what "they" will compromise to. The election sealed the deal.

[WI_DEM]

31. I agree there is not going to be any impeachment or resignation

and I also think if we get a time table to get out of Iraq that Bush's approval ratings will also go up, not to astronomical numbers but more stable numbers.

[westerebus]

41. What matters most.

We have two years left to the next election. The last thing I want to see is the Republican base charged up. They will make up enough BS on their own, we have more important things to do. The troops come first. The Constitution is upheld as the law of the land. The economy as in national debt gets fixed. We have way to much to do.

[Phrogman]

32. You're going to find out Bush approved the air cover stand down on 9/11

and you're going to let that man walk?

[dwp6577]

33. how about the appetizer?

When is Condi going to be resigned?

[kay1864]

34. He ain't gonna resign

Yes, his toy is broken, but he's not going to throw it away.

To resign would mean admitting failure. Although WE know he's a miserable failure, he will never admit that to himself, or to the public.

Instead he will whine about the evil Dem Congress not letting him have his way, how he's just trying to promote freedom, yadda yadda yadda.

He and Poppy will prop up his pResidency no matter what it takes.


Just as well too--the thought of Darth pardoning him makes me puke.

[robertpaulsen]

36. I say put them all in the 4 I Club.

Investigations

Impeachments

Indictments

Imprisonment

Of course, if they resign before they are impeached, FINE BY ME. I just want to see justice served.

[Holly_Hobby]

37. I agree 100% n/t

[Flarney]

38. No pardons?

What would have to happen to ensure that neither Bush nor Cheney receives a presidential pardon? If both are impeached simultaneously, then it wouldn't be a problem. If Cheney resigns, the Dems have to make sure that Bush doesn't get to appoint a new VP that would pardon either of them (in the event that W was impeached). If Cheney resigned, would W be able to pardon him even no charges had been formally brought yet? It's an interesting scenario...I just don't want these criminals to get off...

[kay1864]

39. No such thing as simultaneous impeachment...

sadly enough. It could save quite a bit of time. :+

If Cheney resigned, would W be able to pardon him even no charges had been formally brought yet?

Per Wikipedia: A presidential pardon may be granted at any time after commission of the offense; the pardoned person need not have been convicted or even formally charged with a crime.

[pat_k]

40. May see the BushCheney "resignation exit strategy" implemented . . .

. . .as soon as the threat of impeachment becomes real.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2700922&mesg_id=2706301

[RedCloud]

42. May your words spread like wild fire!

Across the praries where it'll do 'em good. The plain truth bites the hardest.

Eagle feather for you!

[Cleita]

43. I would settle for oversight and accountability. I would also add

that other word justice, which I hope we will bring them to. I firmly believe that if we don't make them admit to and pay for their crimes, we as a country are doomed. There will be more of their ilk who will follow because they know they can get away with their criminal behavior without any repercussions.

[BeHereNow]

44. Daniel Ellsberg agrees with you, and so do I.

Resignation is FAR more likely than impeachment
once the investigations bear fruit.
Like Nixon, he will crawl back to his former miserable
life, although perhaps as a resident of Paraguay,
as the American people are informed of the facts.

My money is on Waxman and Dorgan, not to mention
DU's very own CorpGovActivist, Dave, to provide the
dots that connect the resignation signature of the
WORST pResident ever.

BHN
:popcorn: