Should straight people be allowed to dictate the agenda wrt same-sex marriage?

[TechBear_Seattle]

I believe that I, as a white man, have no right to dictate any agenda dealing with civil rights for blacks or women. That power rests solely with those communities. If invited, I will glady work with those leaders and offer my insight and experience, but in the end my only rights are whether or not to support the agenda they set, and to which extent.

So my question: should heterosexuals -- people with absolutely no vested interest in whether or not equal marriage for same-sex couples becomes a reality in the United States -- be allowed to dictate the agenda of equal marriage for the gay community? If so, would I have had the right to tell black community leaders in the 50s and 60s that it was not a good time for integration and equal rights and they should be happy that they have schools, even if they are segregated and inferior? Do I have the right now to tell women that they should shut up about access to abortions and birth control? Why or why not?

This is an attempt to examine the underlying problem of outsiders coming in and dictating the civil rights agenda of a group. I was going to do this as a poll, but I could not think of any questions that didn't sound condescending or insulting. I do not want to condescend or insult, and I am certainly not putting this out as flame-bait. This question comes from my frustration at all of the straight people who start threads about same-sex marriage and then get pissy when I and other gay people point out how their ideas are not what we want or need. Please treat this thread as an opportunity to discuss and not as an attack.

[Katzenjammer]

1. *NO* group should be allowed to turn another into 2nd class citizens

The entire basis of Jeffersonian democracy is that the majority wins, but no minority can ever be deprived of equal rights thereby.

[ruggerson]

2. Straight people are 9 out of every 10 people

Thus the only way we get our rights is to fight relentlessly, stand firm for our principles and our equality, but accept the reality that progress moves slowly and change comes in increments rather than all at once.

We've changed many hearts and minds, and will no doubt continue to do so. We are a fairly young civil rights movement.

But, strategically, an "all or nothing" approach does not serve our interests.

The history of the world is on our side. Morality and truth are on our side. We WILL win. Eventually.

[mondo joe]

3. I think civil rights is an issue anyone can address. And if heteros want to actually

DO something to help, I won't begrudge them.

But those who just want to talk about what gays SHOULD be doing but don't actually do anything to help - well, they are not much use.

[katsy]

4. K & R

Right now I (and I'm straight) am having difficulty believing straight people can think their way out of a paper bag let alone dictate who does and does not "deserve" their civil rights.

Civil rights just ARE. No group can or cannot dictate that another group be denied the rights enjoyed by others. We should all stand up for that. Civil rights belong to all or no one.

[Cleita]

5. No, but people with no business in legislating for another group

still seem to think they can. I just watched a debate this morning on C-Span with Anthony Scalia. They were debating abortion. Even the guy on the women's side of the issue was a white guy. I mean here are white, guys with no wombs debating laws that will affect all fertile women. Honestly, I was disgusted.

[kimmerspixelated]

6. It pisses me off

That there were so many people voting Yes for the Marriage thing! I'm not gay- but why is it any of my business! Why does it threaten those folks it does not effect? It's like the theory behind Home Owner's Associations with their strict rules except worse, of course. "What? you can't have multi colored Xmas lights-it doesn't go with our plain white lites!!!!" Who TF cares??? To those who are against the Gay Marriage bill, I say- Get a friggin life!

[William769]

7. The majority of "straight" males has an inferiority complex against homosexuals.

When they can overcome that I think we will all win.

[HockeyMom]

8. As the mother of both a gay and a straight daughter,

I have somewhat a vested interest in this. I would like to see BOTH my children in a stable, committed relationship with whosoever they both love.

I can see from the experience of my gay newphew-in-law what a difference that can make. He was on the brink of either being committed or jailed, until that certain someone (male) came into his life and helped him to turn his life around into a happy and productive member of society who is now helping others work out THEIR problems in life.

It makes NO DIFFERENCE what the sexual orientation of that person is. It is all about LOVE.

[Bluebear]

10. You're a beautiful person.

:hug:

[Sapphocrat]

12. Pssst, BB...

...I'm a big fan of HockeyMom's myself. :)

[Jamastiene]

14. Oh, if there were only more people like you.

:hug:

[Sapphocrat]

9. In a word, no.

But far too many people who scream about old white men controlling women's bodies have a big blind spot when it comes to heterosexuals controlling gay people's lives.

Excellent question, btw, TBS.

[gollygee]

11. No one has any right to tell anyone else that their rights aren't important

and that they should have to simply deal with being treated as inferior or unimportant or lesser in any way.

[Patsy Stone]

13. It depends

what you mean by dictate. Are you looking for something that is different than the "straight" concept of marriage? Are you looking for extra rights which are so specific to the group that only they themselves can begin to grasp or regulate them? Like "in our concept of marriage, we get Wednesdays off for reasons that are only relevant to us?"

Civil rights are best when they are equal for every one. If certain rights exist for one group and not another, then the first proper and fair action is to raise everyone's rights to the level of the group with the most rights in that situation.

[ShaneGR]

15. It's such a difficult issue to deal with... especially after the Repug onslaught...

I'm a straight guy. I have absolutely nothing against gay/lesbian/trans people. Nothing at all. But the bottom line is that this is really a states issue. It had no business in the federal legislature. Actually, I think it has no business in the states either. I think a lot of gays want the Dems to propose some sort of legislation in Congress legalizing gay marriage. The sad thing is that doing so would almost guarantee the R's picking up a bunch of seats. First off, they'd never be able to get it out of the Senate even if they forced it through the House. Same as the Republicans trying to do the opposite. At least for the next two years.

[VeggieTart]

16. I think the pro-choice and the gay rights movements should help each other

This isn't dictating as much as it is saying all humans should be able to own their own sexuality. Women decide when and if they become mothers. If two men (or two women) wish to marry, they should have the right to do so. I don't believe in god, but I would ask those who do the question Jena Malone's character posed in "Saved!": Why would god make us all different if he wanted us to be the same?

[NMMNG]

17. No

If we wait until others give us the OK to fight for our rights we'll never get them.

[BlooInBloo]

18. Should anyone be allowed to "dictate the agenda" to anyone *else*?

lol!

Basic false premise that white folks have diligently nurtured for at least hundreds of years: There's some kind of fundamental difference between "types" of people in virtue of which it is nigh-impossible for a person of one "type" to understand much of any importance about a person of another "type", and therefore it is inappropriate for a person of one "type" to have anything useful to say regarding another "type" of person.

It's pure crap - absolutely asinine, in fact. But white folks believe it - and have done a bang-up job convincing most of everyone else.


EDIT: My colon was in the wrong place - yikes!