How Mainstream Is DU?

[smoogatz]

Now that Democrats have retaken the Congress, DUers are suddenly looking a whole lot more lot mainstream America (in ideological terms, anyway), while our less-evolved cousins over in freeperland have been confirmed by the voting public as the foaming fascist-lickers that they are. But if DU loves Al Gore and Wes Clark (see my other active poll: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2691401), does that mean the rest of America will, too? How close are DUers positions on the issues of the day to those of the majority of American voters? Tell me what you think!

[TahitiNut]

1. Let the average person have the same knowledge and information ...

... and they'd be 100% within the 'bounds' of DU, imho.

[Hutzpa]

5. I second the motion

give people the information they need and let them decide.

[xchrom]

2. what's mainstream? 30 million evangelicals or

''moderate'' members of the nra or a pin stripe suit wearing broker on wall street or the much bandied mythical san franciscan or what?

it's been a hundred years since i thought terms like normal or mainstream were in the least bit apt.

[smoogatz]

4. I could have said "how closely aligned politically is DU with the newly emerged

majority of the electorate," but it didn't have quite the same ring to it.

[xchrom]

7. i mean nothing but the utmost respect -- however

i sometimes think we do the work of wingers for them.

inviting notions that somehow duers -- or at least a significant number of them are far leftists.

when the problem might be better identified as fear -- fear in the american gut.

fear of jobs being shipped overseas -- fear of fellow americans living lives we don't understand -- fear of mexicans -- fear that my wife is a full and complete human being in her own right -- whatever it is -- fear has gripped this country.

and it has been formulated and pursued and beaten into us by ''wingers''{i use the quotations on purpse -- i am sarcastic here}.

no leftist embraces any governmental program that would HURT america -- and if i'm wrong please point it out to me.

if it doesn't hurt america -- damage it -- if i and others like me promote ideas and policies based on reason and fact -- then -- well i guess i really don't understand.

[smoogatz]

9. Sounds like you're rejecting the whole premise--

and of course you're correct to do so. The "left, right, center" construction is so simplistic that it's useless--it's really just a shorthand or code that allows people to define themselves in opposition to somebody else. That said, I consider myself a pretty damn far leftist, and proud of it.

[xchrom]

11. i am as well -- and i bemoan what i sometimes think

is the death of language.

for me it's not whether some one is left, right, or center -- because that seems to me to that it lets off the hook what happened historically.

the country emotionally -- maybe even socially moved backwards -- and for me that is what's important.

[William769]

3. Du is anything but mainstream.

[Bucky]

6. To quote Jim Hightower...

There ain't nothing in the "middle of the road" but yellow stripes and dead armadillos. Are we more to the left? Yes, probably so. But an online forum encourages more radical thought--be it on the left, on the right, or in discussions about favorite sports teams. It's opinion stripped of the human need to adjust discussions to promote harmony (which was the original function of language for our hominid ancestors).

But the social advantage of all these ideological extremes is the same as the scientific advantage one gets from labratory experiments. This is one of many places where ordinary Americans can kick around ideas, argue out the merits and the weaknesses of government policy, and develop a consensus over what our priorities are as a party.

Without such discussions, played out nationwide, the party just exists to fall in lockstep behind our leaders in Washington. We will always be "more left" than our Congressional delegations, but they will be more left and better geared to run the government for everybody's benefit because of us and discussions like ours in dozens or different online forums.

[Perky]

8. I don't like these choices

I beleive we are to the left of populace on Gay rights but pretty balanced on Abortion. I think here is a stong strain of Antireligious right, the bent is not incorrect but I think it overeaches in that it paints to broad a brush and is more ardent than most americans althoujght I think most emericans think that the fundies are over the top on abortion and gay rights

I don't think the mainstream is anti-choice or anti-gay;

[smoogatz]

10. What are the correct choices?

I think the basic question is pretty interesting, and I'd be happy to consider new ways of formulating it.

[Perky]

21. As do I but I think one the poll is out there you really should not chages the options.

Maybe the questions could be like this.

DU is completely mainstream


I think DU is militant on some issues of personal decision-making and believe everyone should be treated equally but maintream in other areas like healthcare and social security.

I think DU is to the left of mainstream on issues of personal decision-making and progressive in other areas like healthcare and social security.

I think I think we algn with the mainstream on issues of personal decision-making and are for more progressive in other areas like healthcare and social security.


Or some other similar type parallel structure.

[Nikia]

12. I agree

DU is to the left of mainstream on some issues, but abortion is not one of them. Mainstream America doesn't want Roe vs Wade overturned anymore than the average DUer.

[etherealtruth]

25. That was my first ...

Abortion was a poor example of the social issues "we" are left of.

[Mr_Spock]

30. Yes, that was a mistake IMO

That may have been the worst choice possible

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. I roughly agree

I would say "considerably to the left" overall, but I don't think abortion is actually one of the issues on which DU is significantly different from the mainstream. I would say it's considerably more anti-corporate than the mainstream (which is more of a true 'left-right' issue than abortion anyway). If you have to shoehorn all issues into 'left-right', DU is also much further left than the mainstream USA on foreign policy (especially Iraq).

[Lasthorseman]

13. No

All it means is a paradigm shift.
Issues and events in the media have already started to frame themselves. In Cambridge Mass the city is considering a ban on leaf blowers. The meltdown cometh! Argh. How to explain. Let's take global warming, a real problem which needs a real solution. What does this mean, well it means people in authority have to convince people to not use so much energy. Cut back, do without. Business however can't, well simply because that would mess up the already comatose "economy", which right now consists of how rapidly can the US export it's technology and manufacturing to China. Global warming, yes I'll get on that bandwagon just as soon as Big Al makes this http://www.earthpulse.com/src/subcategory.asp?catid=1&subcatid=2
a household word.
Nazi fascists or osterich, take your pick. Truth is why I get "historized".

[smoogatz]

24. I hate leaf blowers. Banning them sounds like a great idea.

What the hell is so hard about raking?

[Lasthorseman]

26. Not about leaf blowers

about one's ability to ban someone from doing something. Ok, sex is now banned because it annoys me.

[smoogatz]

27. I think if your neighbors were outside having sex at 132 decibels

when your kid was trying to take a nap, you'd be justified in asking them to find a quieter way to go about it.

[Lasthorseman]

33. True

I have to assume then that you live in a city. Amazing that there are still trees there. 132 decibels 40 feet away inside a packed condo complex. Yes, I would bitch too. Here in the burbs we do this at reasonable hours and far enough away that it doesn't wake up the kids. Then again if I had to live in a dense packed community I would have sought the "good death" long ago. Just my take on American "society".

[otherlander]

14. The biggest difference

Is probably all the 9/11 conspiracy theories. Which might make people think of DU as a crazy fringe. But besides that, a lot of America agrees with us.

[BlooInBloo]

15. Just what, pray tell, does being way left of mainstream....

... have to do with being disconnected from reality?

That is the clear and direct implication of your option-statement:

"DU is WAY left of the mainstream, which is pro-corporate, pro-evangelical, anti-choice and anti-gay; the DLC have a much firmer grasp on reality."

[smoogatz]

19. If you disagree with the statement

my advice to you is to not vote for it. Even better, maybe you should post your own poll--one that better expresses your entirely humorless take.

[BlooInBloo]

20. Dammit. Why are DUers like politicians on talk shows - refusing to answer a question?

Sigh.

[smoogatz]

22. Oh for Christ's sake.

The answer is obvious: nothing. But from the pov of a DLCer, we are the lunatic finge. Get it now?

[Rowdyboy]

17. Consider just one issue: Atheism v Religion....According to many DU polls

I've seen in the past, anywhere from 45-65% of DUers are atheists. In American society at large, the highest figure I've ever seen is 17% atheist and that was very recent.

It's hard to justify DU being "mainstream" under those circumstances, but I don't want DU to be mainstream. How boring would that be? This place is interesting mainly because of the intriguing, unusual and occasionally off-beat ideas you see expressed and the interesting people you meet.

No, as a body, DU is not "mainstream" Democrat, thank God. Hope it never becomes like that.

[bananas]

29. Were those polls in GD or R/T?

R/T is not representative of DU.

[Rowdyboy]

32. I've never even been to the religion/theology room, so it must be GD

Frankly, I'm always a little surprised at the actual poll numbers-though I've seen such polls several times. DU is full to the brim with fascinating, intelligent, sometimes radical thought and should be enjoyed for just that. If I want "mainstream", I can find it anywhere. What I find on DU is more challenging and thought provoking.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

18. “In matters of conscience, the law of majority has no place.” Gandhi

What the "majority" or "mainstream" find popular should be of little concern in doing what is right.

The vast majority of Americans once thought that slavery was "right", that the 8 hour workday was "radical", that women's suffrage was "dangerous", that the war in Vietnam was necessary, that invading Iraq was "protecting" us from terrorism, and that African Americans are "inferior".

Some, more that we like to think, still believe some of those things.

The tendency of the "big tent" types is to pander to, and appease, even the most repugnant of those "popular" beliefs.

[Perky]

23. You are exactly right.

I think the problem we run into is that the nature of govering means incremental change rather than meeting the concerns of conscientious objectors. That slower pace is objectionable because it looks like compromise. (well ok it is compromise) The challenge is that you only get to incremental change through being one whoget s to govern an that comes through an elective process. And in order to get even incremental change you have to build coalitions with your elected peers and with your constuency back home.

Even if we allow that the majority of americans are progressive. we also have to allow that 80% of the progressives are concentrated in about 1/3rd of the congressional districts. That means that 2/3rds of congress represent moderate to conservative majority districts. I don't know how you overcome that inequity.

[Jacobin]

28. A lot more than it used to be

And that's because much of America has caught up with us, not the other way around

[entanglement]

31. Depends on the issue

DUers can be quite right-wing on matters of race / immigration (which is fairly 'mainstream'), but are more left wing on religion / GLBT rights / abortion. On economic matters, I find most people center-right (not corporatist) but they're certainly not socialists, either. On foreign policy matters the majority is left leaning when it comes to war (Iraq, for example) but quite right leaning in that they hold other countries (China / Mexico etc) responsible for our problems rather than the international capitalist class.

Of course, I must confess I'm to the left of most DUers. :)

[slackmaster]

34. I would have voted for "WAY left of mainstream", but

The part about the DLC having a firmer grip on reality stopped me cold, so I went for the "commie pinko treehugger fags" option in protest.

:argh: