Are you satisfied with Dean's job thus far as DNC Chair?

[jpgray]

I remember poor Terry McAuliffe, who almost never said something I didn't think could be said better, and only seemed to raise money by going behind the scenes to some stereotypical cigar-smoke filled room. When you're outclassed in "spin alley" by Ed motherfucking Gillespie it makes people who identify as members of your party very sad. I'm proud of Dean as our DNC chair because he reaches out to average, unconnected people for money, and because he sees Democrats in red states as people, not stastically insignificant markers on a gameboard. Also because he speaks from the heart, and what's there is straightforward and powerful in its simplicity and honesty.

[Fenris]

1. Yep, and it's largely because, as you so eloquently put it,

"he sees Democrats in red states as people."

I could not be happier with Dean. He really fought hard in races the Democratic Congressional establishment wrote off as lost causes, and it paid off.

[W.E.B. Du Bois]

2. I am the lone dissenter

Well going into the 2006 elections I really thought the Democrats were going to be in trouble because it seemed that Dean had been looking at strategically unimportant areas and neglecting battleground states and districts. I suspect that the Democrats succeeded DESPITE such a poor strategy.

That's just the way life is. You have to be good at electoral strategy or you are more likely to lose. Sure it would be nice to build up the party base in South Carolina or wherever he is sending the money, but it makes more sense to target swing areas where the return to your $$$ is greater.

[Ravy]

3. It sure helped the Democratic infrastructure in those states...

helping to take Governorships, state houses, local races... they all benefitted. Remember how important state legislatures are in defining Congressional districts and I shouldn't have to remind you how important a strategic SOS here and there can affect elections (or prevent the stealing of one).

[Alexander]

4. We could have a House seat in WYOMING, for crying out loud.

We haven't had a seat there since 1979, when Dick Cheney represented them.

And not all the votes have been counted, so the seat is still up in the air.

Do you still think Dean's strategy was so poor?

[Change has come]

30. as of Friday, Wyoming is still counting provisional ballots

we need 31 more votes to trigger an automatic recount!

[Alexander]

31. There are reasons why the red states are red, Dean's simply appealing to that.

It's a good strategy. Montana, North Carolina, Colorado, Kansas and Arizona are only red to a certain point - a Democrat did win the South within the past 30 years (Carter) and most of the west within the past 45 (Johnson).

It can be done, and I never liked the idea of "giving up" on certain states. What makes Alaska red probably isn't the same thing that makes Alabama red - so we can focus on one of these issues, and send the GOP into a panic mode in a state they previously took for granted.

[jpgray]

5. Chasing the opportunities of the ephemeral present is killing this party

It's why the Republicans are able to sucker us time and again into arguing the social issue debates they want to have--we have to do more than respond to the opportunities of the moment, we have to build new opportunities for ourselves, and out of nothing if that's all we have. Luckily we have a great deal more than nothing in some red states--and even more luckily we have a DNC chair who recognizes it. Building Democratic party structure is not a two week flood of money to one targeted district/state during an election year, it's a patient nurturing of infrastructure and political feeling on the local level. Dean's strategy does this. May he still be in the job to appreciate the results, and may a future Democratic congressperson from one of these "strategically important" areas prove how wrong you are a few years down the line.

[Kagemusha]

6. The thing is, Dean's work isn't done.

Party building will continue for another two years without a pause. Hopefully with even better results.

[BlooInBloo]

8. Shorter WEBDB: I don't care WHAT the results were - Dean's strat still sucks. lol!

Talk about willful disconnection from reality... All to avoid admitting being mistaken - sheesh - You're a good American!

:rofl:

[jpgray]

10. I agree that just because we won doesn't mean Dean is doing a good job

Correlation isn't causation, but I think I could argue that Dean's policies will do us more cumulative good than Terry McAuliffe's ever did.

[BlooInBloo]

14. (shrug) I never said, implied, or even suggested that correlation...

... was causation. But aside from the fact that your comments bear no relevance to mine, they're lovely.

And in any case, while correlation doesn't imply causation, it DOES imply not-coincidence. Which is all that's relevant here. Although why you thought it was interesting to introduce the concept of correlation at all in an environment containing only one data point escapes me.

[jpgray]

15. You can't easily define the causes of something so complex as an election

So just because we won, that doesn't in itself guarantee Dean is doing a good job. Our victory certainly doesn't hurt his reputation, naturally. :D I think he's doing a great job, in case that wasn't evident in the thread.

[BlooInBloo]

16. I don't recall attempting to "define the causes of" yadayadayada...

But thanks for the warning!

[jpgray]

17. You were laughing at WEB because he thought Dean "sucked" despite the win

I thought I'd point out to you that the -win- doesn't by itself prove that Dean doesn't "suck." You were treating WEB's opinion as ridiculous on its face when it isn't. I don't agree with him, but he doesn't deserve to be laughed at as if he's not making any sense.

[Mabus]

18. LOL, we have a new Dem Rep from Kansas

that makes two Dems from Kansas in the House.

The two Dems are incumbent Dem Dennis Moore and our new Rep. Nancy Boyda. Nancy got all kinds of money back in 2004. She lost by 15%. This time around she was ignored by the DCCC until the last two weeks when polls showed she had a chance to win. She ran a grassroots campaign that started with the same Deaniacs that helped her out in 2004. The difference this time was support from the DNC in the form of walking lists and canvassing. The early canvassing (I started in the spring and worked throughout the summer) helped identify people who were willing to put up signs, make phone calls and volunteer. We got people signed up to walk their neighborhoods and, in some cases, other areas. That's what made the difference around here. By the time Ryun's (Boyda's five-time incumbent opponent) corruption (money from ARMPAC, a sweetheart house deal from Abramoff/DeLay associates, denying knowing Foley while throwing a block party with him) came out people knew Nancy's name either from her earlier run or from canvassing.

As someone who worked on the ground, I know what a difference Dean's strategy made here in Kansas. By the time the DCCC stepped in Nancy was up in the polls and gaining steam. The DCCC only began running commercials when it was announced that Bush would be stumping here for her opponent. And then, they didn't consult Boyda's campaign or coordinate their ads. They just started running them. Boyda won her seat because of the work we Kansans put into and because she's was a good candidate. And the resason so many Kansans got involved was because they were asked to participate thanks to the DNC.

[MannyGoldstein]

21. The DLC Ran The DNC For 12 Years

and we got our clocks cleaned every time.

An actual Democrat ran things this time, and we ended up at the high end of reasonable expectations.

I'd look into Occam's Razor if I were you. Very useful stuff.

[w4rma]

27. Do you realize that Canada and Britain asked Dean to teach them his tactics?

They did not ask Rahm Emmanuel to teach them. There is a reason that they asked Dean and it's because his strategy and tactics are cutting edge.

[Vincardog]

28. That "Targeted State Strategy" is RW BS. Every voter deserves for the

party to represent and ask for their vote. Your sentiment is why the Texas Democratic Party sabotaged several good candidates.

Running our elections on the corrupt corporate model is what gave us crooked BBV.

I call BS

[0rganism]

33. Do not underestimate the value of forcing the RNC to spread its efforts, too

If Dems can force the republicans to divert resources defending their "strengths," they might just have less to use in attacking Dems. A lot of these incumbents win because no one bothers to seriously challenge them.

[Morgana LaFey]

50. I think your understanding of what Dean's "strategy" was is

exrtremely flawed.

You might want to give a listen to this (I think you'll have to dig for the link -- it used to be on c-span's home page): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2943846

It's Dean's appearance on Wed or Thurs last week at the National Press club, and it was very, very interesting.

I submit that given the FACT that not one single Dem lost their seat in this election, and the gains we picked up were in large part in complete surprise areas (seats kept becoming "competitive" that hadn't been before), what Dean ended up doing was quite the oppose of what you believe: he made the Dem party competitive in places we'd not had a prayer of being before, which "just happened" to coincide with an incredible wave of total revulstion at all things Bush and Reublican. And that's Dean's genius: he's prescient. He is most often 1 or more years ahead of everyone else. In this case, I doubt he could have foreseen or articulated WHY, but he knew in his heart that the right thing to do was build the party in all 50 states from the ground up. He gambled big (altho IMO building party infrastructure where none exists is hardly a "gabme") -- and won big.

I think Indiana is a perfect example. Worth watching

and here's a Salon article: http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2006/11/10/dean_dems/

[volstork]

7. Dean helped put us in the majority--

I'd say that is pretty good work!

[mykpart]

9. Dean impressed me when he said

"It's a sign of respect to ask someone for their vote." The party has ignored us in TX for so long - I think Dean might even turn TX back into the state of Sam Rayburn & Lyndon Johnson.

[HaggardsMethDealer]

11. Hell yes!

The Democrats TRIED doing it the other way, with just pouring money into battleground areas and neglecting the rest of the country and it DIDNT WORK.

This isn't a 2 year process. It's a 15-20 year process. He is laying the groundwork, and doing the hard work of building this beast from the ground up. Just swooping in at the last minute and being Bush-lite in battleground areas destroyed the Democratic Party and was just spreading the red state mentality. By going into the red states and throwing down the gauntlet, you get respect and you plant seeds that will one day be harvested.

It is exactly what the right wing did to become as successful as they were, and Im glad that these DLC CLOWNS were proven wrong in this election.

We need MORE of Dean's strategy, and more face to face meetups everywhere in the country.

[jpgray]

12. Yes! Nicely put, and welcome to DU

Republicans have poured billions via thinktanks and advocacy groups into creating a political atmosphere to guarantee victories for -their- party. The Democrats in recent times have far too often attempted not to create their own political atmosphere, but simply played by the rules the GOP worked so hard to set down. And it shouldn't be a surprise that this never works, because those rules were laid down to ensure GOP victories.

[tblue]

13. When we write off whole regions of the country, the Repugs don't have to spend a dime there

and they can instead target all their resources at our areas of strength. Then when they make inroads in our strong spots, we're dead and out of options. John Kerry said early on in '04, Dems can win without the South. That was a big mistake, IMHO. I say Dean has it right. We can and we did win all across the country. I hope he continues to build on the nationwide momentum he's helped create.

[Monk06]

19. After he's finished giving advice to the UK labor party could you send him

up here so we can get rid of Stephen Harper?

[Spazito]

45. He IS coming to Canada!

He is the keynote speaker at the Liberal Convention in December because his 50 State Strategy is something the Libs need to rebuild their grassroots. The NDP should look at this strategy as well, imo.

[MannyGoldstein]

20. C'mon People!!! K&R This!!!

Let's show the Clintons, their proxies, andd their DU lurkers that trying to destroy Dean is a BAD IDEA!!!

[dalloway]

40. Bravo, K&R !

[upi402]

22. Dean for President

:bounce: :bounce:

[MattSh]

38. Hey, I'd vote for him.....

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[GreenTea]

23. Dean is aware and on top of the republican slime & voting machine manipulations.

[silverojo]

24. I voted yes

Because I couldn't find an option for FUCK, YEAH!

[ArbustoBuster]

25. We've got both houses of Congress.

While that's not entirely due to Dean, it's got to be at least partly his doing. So I'm mightily pleased with his job so far.

[cascadiance]

26. I became a Dem when Dean took over the DNC! I will leave if he's forced out!

Pure and simple! I'm VERY tired of this DLC BS posturing about Dean! Dean needs to be given more power to build the Dem's future strategies!

The only thing I wish we'd tried was to have someone be in the Senate race in Indiana! As many congressional seats that turned over there, I wonder if such a tide could have helped us win the senate seat there too, and that would have freed us from dependence on Lieberman's loyalty!

[farmboxer]

29. Extremely Satisfied!!!!!!!

Dean made a huge difference!!!!!!!

[Moloch]

32. Carville=sour grapes...

nt

[FogerRox]

34. Dean is the Eric Clapton of DNC chairs, he fucking JAMS !

[OneBlueSky]

35. results are what matter . . . and Dean gets results . . . n/t

.

[Spiffarino]

36. Dean is making the Democratic party relevant again.

If we Democrats don't go for every open elected office we're stupid. The 50-state strategy is the only strategy that will further our party. Target marketing is not a party strategy, it's a low-level tactic. It won't strengthen and build the party.

The Democratic presence must be felt in every state, county, city, township and precinct in the country. Every office matters, from president to district attorney to dogcatcher. Small-time positions are where most of the real work gets done anyway. It's also where candidates are discovered and developed to run for higher office.

The 50-state strategy gives Dems another advantage by giving us more eyes and ears on the ground. It's important to know about daily life in Bozeman, MT, not just in Chicago and NY. If we know what matters to most Americans, we can do the greatest good for the greatest number.

[lebkuchen]

37. absolutely satisfied

keep Dean onboard.

[dalloway]

39. We need to vote with our dollars, not just our mouse

I'm going to double my democracy bond today to show the Dems who I am fully behind: Dr. Dean!!

Will you join me?

[bklyncowgirl]

41. No! I HATE the idea that we WON both House and Senate!

Just when I'd gotten comfortable with the idea that Democrats were perennial losers along comes this guy Dean and changes it all.

Shame on you, Doctor Dean. Now the Democrats are actually going to have to DO SOMETHING.

[mom cat]

42. I wish he would take a strong stance on impeachment, but, Hey,

nobodys perfect!

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

44. That isn't his job. Once the investigations start, they will be hard to stop

nm

[mom cat]

53. I do hope that you are right and that a groundswell of outcries will

eject the toxic duo of Bush/Cheney.

[gollygee]

43. It worked

so I'm happy.

[Coexist]

46. you forgot the choice "abso-fucking-lutely.

But I just chose "yes" in its absence.

[Downtown Hound]

47. Hell yes!

[yellowdogmi]

48. I was dissapointed by Carville.

He has always been fun to watch. He is a bulldog. I love to see him get his teeth into republicans. To see him express his views about the performance of Dean was at the least disheartening. Mr. Dean is bringing this party back to the people. His strategy is brilliant and will pay dividends in 08 if we allow him to continue it. I think we should come up with a DU thankyou to Mr. Dean as we did for Helen Thomas.

[WI_DEM]

49. his fifty state strategy worked!

[blm]

51. Well said - Dean went out to ALL states and REBUILT many party infrastructures.

He didn't stay in DC and raise money while giving up in 2002 and 2004 like TerryMac - - after 2000 we were promised a MORE secure election process, and instead we got a WORSE one and a collapsed party infrastructure in crucial red and swing states.

[Geek_Girl]

52. Dean 50 State Strategy isn't just great for Dems

It's great for America. Rethugs now can't take the South and midwest for granted.

[graywarrior]

54. He says what he means, and means what he says.

[GoneOffShore]

55. Dean is the guy!

And this thread needs to be kicked up again.

Keep it in view.