Screw all this nice guy stuff, impeach bush now!

[The_Casual_Observer]

What's the point of letting the bastard off the hook? The world is waiting.

[mw]

1. Here's how it'll happen:

Here's how it'll happen:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2963088

[Ken Burch]

2. We need to do a thorough investigation and really have the evidence lined up.

Also, remember the Seventies. Nixon went so early in his second term that the GOP was almost able to make the voters forget Watergate had ever happened by the time '76 rolled around.

Let's focus on getting out of Iraq first and documenting how horribly wrong it was to go in. Make it last, make them sweat.

The longer Dubya's agony goes on, the better for us.

[tblue]

9. Right. Timing is everything. Let's have long, drawn out talk of imp*achment, and watch * squirm

and the Repugs begin to eat their own and self-implode. All they know how to do is attack, and they are rounding up right now like a pack of wolves ready to pounce on anything Dems do. So let the focus be on THEM, drip by drip, and it won't be on us.

[Ken Burch]

3. self-delete.

dupe.

[boolean]

4. BOOYAH

I'll be pissed if it doesn't eventually happen.

[greenman3610]

5. question is, do you want to feel good

or do you want to win.

The leadership is smart. The mass of voters
are not up to impeachment yet.

Investigate first, the Repubs will
be so panicked when the filth starts
pouring out, they will beg Pelosi
to impeach.

[boolean]

6. Not true

45% want impeachment. I assume after investigations, that'll hit 60% to 70%.

As long as it happens. I'm willing to wait. As long as it happens. If they don't even persue it, we all better be angry.

[immerlinks]

7. Where do I sign?

[ewagner]

8. I think I'm in favor of a different approach

I like the "investigate" or "oversight" approach and I'm willing to see where that leads.

Why?

Primarily because the rest of the county hasn't caught up with us yet. A large portion of the country believes that Bush is incompetent but haven't yet come to the conclusion that he's criminal. Worse yet, they don't want to believe he's a criminal.

The reason they don't want to believe it is because it would negate everything we hold good and sacred about America. We never want to look at the ugly side of America...we would much rather pretend that it doesn't exist. So-called Mr and Mrs Middle America will only demand impeachment when they are confronted with incontrovertable evidence that evil has been committed.

Otherwise it will be like the Clinton impeachment....it was carried on by a group of Washington insiders aided and abetted by media hype but without the widespread support of Middle America....in fact, Clinton's favorable rating remained high even during the impeachment trial. It didn't suceed because it was grass-roots based.

So let the investigations begin. Let the evidence mount. Let's see where it ends up.....

[sampsonblk]

36. they don't want to believe he's a criminal

Good point.

On our side, we seem to constantly focus on where people are today, rather than where they will be if we make our case strongly.

After a thorough investigation, people will come to see the light. After a few of their most worshipped GOP hacks take the 5th, reality will suddenly become more clear.

[BlooInBloo]

10. But (whimper) THEY (whine) might not LIKE it! (cower)

[still_one]

11. This has nothing to do with "nice guy stuff", it has to do with priorities

There will be major action to pull us out of Iraq, and undoing the damage that this administration has done in the last 6 years, which includes fixing the medicare prescription plan, unconstitutional wire tapping, preventing monopolistic mergers, especially in the telecommunications industry, bringing back the fairness doctrine, preventing massive media mergers, reversing tax credits to corporations who off-shore jobs, fixing the trashing of the environment, becoming energy independent, confronting the issue of 50 million people who don't have health insurance, reducing student loans, bring back pel grants, stopping the stacking of the courts

Another factor to consider, besides the people's business, if the president is impeached, then also the vp will be impeached, and what would happen before that would be that Cheney would resign, and bush would appoint probably jeb or mccain as vice president

Priority should be dealing with the people's business first. There is a lot of suffering that needs to be addressed first

[immerlinks]

12. What could possibly be a higher priority than

REMOVING Bush/Cheney?

If you start with that many of the other problems will be solved almost immediately or in very short order.

As far as Cheney resigning, big deal - let him. Bush can't appoint a new VP without the consent of Congress. You think he's going to get that with anybody he appoints? Not likely. Nancy should draw up the Articles of Impeachment on January 4th and by January 31st she'll be president and Bush and Cheney will be holding a bake sale to raise funds for bail.

[txindy]

15. We have a two-thirds majority in the Senate? Is 51 two-thirds of 100, now?

The only way to get the necessary votes in the Senate is via thorough investigations and in-depth hearings. Even then it's a partisan crap-shoot.

[immerlinks]

16. 2/3 would not be necessary

Bush is such a coward, he'd resign before it got that far. That's why daddy had to pull strings to keep him out of Vietnam. He's not smart enough to realize his best option is to hang tough and he's too stubborn to listen to advice. If we show a little intestinal fortitude, he's out of the White House and freedom reigns again in America.

Anybody know what it takes it impeach Supreme Court Justices?

[txindy]

19. Um,.... Yeah, okay.

:eyes:

[immerlinks]

21. Listen, I realize I'm new here

but this is the first time I've felt energized in some time. Perhaps, I'm being too enthusiastic but I see tremendous opportunities and I would hate to see them squandered. The repubs are on the ropes, now is not the time to let them catch their breath. It won't be that hard to outsmart them, but they are certainly more capable of outdeviousnessing us.

It may be first and ten at midfield, let's take a shot at the end zone - if it doesn't work it doesn't mean that we have to punt, it's still only second down.

[Hubert Flottz]

29. Welcome to DU...

[still_one]

30. People want jobs, security, healthcare, getting out of the Iraq debacle

and so much more

If we bog ourselves down with an impeachment of a lameduck president we we will destroy ourseleves in the process, because in 2008 they will look back and say what have the Democrats in Congress tried to do? If we can say we removed our involvment in Iraq, fixed the medicare prescription mess, brought jobs back to America, etc. verses spending to years trying to impeach a president and vice president, which do you think the people will thank us for?

[Hubert Flottz]

35. Our Constitution is worth more than the Jobs that are left to be had

McDonalds and fucking Burger king! GET REAL!

[txindy]

37. Impeachment chances won't be going away. A chance to raise the min. wage may, though.

People across the country are hurting right now and we have the chance to get their hourly wages increased, not to mention improving their health care. This is an immediate need for millions of people. Impeachment is not. That'll take a long investigation and many in-depth hearings before we would even come close to the 2/3 majority we need in the Senate to impeach. We'll have 51 Senators come January. What are the odds that we'll pick up an extra 15 or 16 just by declaring we intend to impeach? Forget slim, they're none. That's reality.

[still_one]

40. you get real buddy, what jobs do you think I am talking about? Programmers, Engineers, Doctors,etc.

As far as the Constitution, that is what the Democrats will be doing in the next two years, undoing the assult on the Constitution by reversing the actions this administration has done

If you want to waste two years going through impeachment process because YOU think healthcare, jobs, and the Iraq war can be put on hold be my guest, but as far I am concerned I am quite happy with the Democratic leadership's position

[immerlinks]

49. If we can get Bush out of office

We can achieve all of this so much easier and faster.

[CarbonDate]

22. Ending the death in Iraq?

Shouldn't that be our priority instead of petty partisan revenge? What does removing the puppet do for us? Nothing. They'll leave office, lick their wounds and come back again, just like they did after Nixon. Seriously, they were out of office for four years before they came back under Reagan. Then they were in office for twelve years before Clinton got elected. Now they're back again.

Dismantle their cabal first. It's a lot less satisfying for the Democrats who want blood, but it's too important that we shut them down for good this time. Patience.

[still_one]

27. Bingo, plus a lot of other issues where people are struggling just to make ends meat

[still_one]

26. Getting out of Iraq for one, and I can name 10 more things than

[zanne]

34. So attempting to destroy the consitution should be legal?

Torture, secret wiretapping, signing statements that override congress and "disappearing" citizens is a lower priority? If we don't do something about this now, we never will. And what's to stop any president or member of any president's cabinet from doing the exact same thing in the future? Bush is setting precedents. This isn't about retribution; it's about trying to salvage our democracy.

[txindy]

38. Exactly right, it is about salvaging our democracy.

Like it or not, that includes investigations, hearings, and a two-thirds majority vote in the Senate. And that all takes time - time that doesn't even start ticking until the new Congress is seated in January and we become a majority that is still 15 or 16 votes away from that necessary two-thirds majority vote.

[Swamp Rat]

13. IMPEACH BUSH!

[upi402]

18. Hey swampy

Do you feel it's better to get him out now or leave him in there?

I'm afraid Cheney's replacement may get re-elected in '08. The power of incumbency. Bush is the scapegoat, but lets make him ours. We have control of that.

We can work on criminal charges and he can't run like Cheney probably will. If he obstructs, we can threaten a number of criminal charges to get the Dems' work signed.

Then we can send hi ass to trial for criminal charges.

I may be missing something here for sure. Would he get away with it if we don't impeach now? You know I hate those bastards with a white hot hate. No making nice or cooperating in a bipartisan spirit here.

[Swamp Rat]

23. I think a lot about things, especially our troops in the ME.

Bushler vowed to keep them there till the end of his term, so I see no other alternative to bringing home the troops -NOW!- unless we hold numerous hearings and impeachment hearings ASAP!

We the People won the last elections because WE WANT TO REMOVE BUSH FROM POWER NOW!!! We want investigations and accountability! We want to see Dumbya, Dick Cheney, Don Rumsfeld, Condi Rice, Karl Rove, Douglas Feith, Andrew Card, Ari Fleischer, John Negroponte, James Baker, George Bush Sr., ALL of them testify UNDER OATH live on TV and answer OUR questions!

Investigate!! Prosecute!!! Sentence!!!!

Don't back down now Dems! Ge go on the OFFENSE now! The huge battle is in front of us but we are united in the majority and have power of subpoena because of our new voice in the Congress!

CARPE DIEM!!!



... before he declares Martial Law and drags us down into the abyss...

[AntiFascist]

24. Well said! n/t

[upi402]

25. Troops are key. How many Dems want them home now?

I just worry that getting the Bushler out will not get our men and women back home sooner.
This is part of the reason why I rail against DINO's so much.

Maliki wants out troops confined to base there. And our military industrial complex looters are pulling out or are pulled out.
Do you think we may get them home sooner without Bush in there if Iraqis give us the boot anyway? Also, Dems may have the instinct to fight Bush if he's in, and wants to stay the course. I always felt that NAFTA would have failed if Clinton was not in and Bush1 was seen as the enemy to fight against.

Maybe this is the same. I don't know, just figuring it out. None of us really knows. These are historic times though aren't they?

[still_one]

32. No way, that would even make it longer. The quickest way to bring the troops home

is cut the funding.

If you believe that impeachment of a lameduck president is the highest priority of the people over jobs, healthcare, the Iraq war etc. watch us self-destruct in 2008

Of course, that will NOT be the case, because the Democrats who control Congress DID GET THE MESSAGE FROM THE PEOPLE

[Swamp Rat]

46. "The quickest way to bring the troops home is cut the funding."

No way. That will NOT happen. That would be political suicide at best.

[still_one]

47. they will neither do impeachment or stop the funding

and by the time 2008 comes around their will be at least twice as many Americans soldiers dead as today, and God knows how many civillians

I hope Levin or Murtha are able to get our troops out of Iraq, but I doubt it

[Swamp Rat]

48. They WILL impeach and it will happen so fast you won't have time to pick

your jaw up off the ground.

Wanna bet? :D

[still_one]

50. In your dreams. Even if they did impeach, they would NOT get 2/3 of the Senate to convict

and when 2008 comes around, the PEOPLE will ask, WHY are my jobs still be off-shored, why isn't the BBV fixed, why isn't the medicare prescription drug bill fixed, why haven't you done anything about Iraq?, and WHY haven't you done anything to help me get my kids through college?

Because ONCE they start impeachment, NOTHING ELSE WILL GET DONE

Incidently, you are saying it will happen so fast, then you are effectively calling the ENTIRE LEADERSHIP OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY LIARS, because they said it won't

[Swamp Rat]

51. "Because ONCE they start impeachment, NOTHING ELSE WILL GET DONE"

"nothing else will get done." - I disagree with this theory.

"then you are effectively calling the ENTIRE LEADERSHIP OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY LIARS, because they said it won't" - Wow! That extrapolation is so off-base...

[still_one]

52. Perhaps my extrapolation was over the edge, sorry

One thing I will agree with you on though, is that there will be investigations

[elocs]

14. Patience is a virtue. When they build the case, impeachment will come.

Nancy Pelosi will be the third person in line to the Presidency after the VP. Why make her look like a fool when she has said that impeachment is off the table? I trust that she knows more about what she is doing than the armchair political quarterbacks here, myself included. This impeachment now thing really needs its own spot because if I have seen it once, I have seen it a thousand times. I really wish that somebody would come up with some new or novel take on it.

[upi402]

17. I seriously doubt it's NICE GUY stuff

I have to assume they are getting more mileage by leaving this neutered lame duck in there. Republicans and their media is crying like scalded cats, warning us to be cooperative.

HA!:rofl: Hypocrite says WHAT?

No, leave him in there and work on his criminal trial. We don't want a replacement Veep to ascend to the presidency and then get re-elected.
If he obstructs the Dems' work, threaten with any number of criminal charges and offer him a seat where he can sit down, shut up, and let the grown ups get some work done.

Then send his ass to prison for appropriate reaming. (after a fair and balanced trial of course)

[casus belli]

20. When the investigations are complete...

...there will be no doubt in the American people's mind that it is the proper course, and not just a retaliatory act by Democrats for Clinton or other reasons. There should be a very clear, cut and dry case with nothing having the appearance of being cobbled together to make a case. I have no doubt that enough evidence will come out of this to make a very clear case for impeachment. It is important that we let the process run its course.

[Hubert Flottz]

28. I agree...

The PNAC GOPers are insane! Want to send another 50,000 kids into Iraq, to suffer and maybe die...for a pack of lies, Bush's pride and EXXON's bottom line!

[sampsonblk]

31. Another sign we are still the party of weakness

Some in the media are accusing Democrats of being out to investigate and impeach Bush. WTF???

The real question they should ask is "Did Bush violate the law? Repeatedly?" Or "Why is Bush worried about being impeached if he didn't break any laws?" or "How did we let it get this far with no investigations to speak of?" or "What does it say about our country that we allowed this to happen?"

And, true to form, our side is running frightened from the question instead of turning it right back on them. This is very disheartening. Imagine a repeat sex offender accusing the local DA of considering putting his ass in jail. And imagine that DA saying "Oh no! I would never do that! Too many people are against it!"

[Hubert Flottz]

33. Good points!

Now is not a time for the team to come out in Pink Tutus! ATTACKKKKKKKKKKKK! Attacking is what the GOP has done non stop, since Nixon...attack our party and our people! If our guys don't stand up and sound off now, I'll freakin' quit!

[still_one]

41. bye

[yellowdogmi]

44. Nice adjustment of the framing.

Now how do we get the MSM to ask those questions. Maybe send your reframing to the DNC to use as talking points when the questions come up. Investigate. Then impeach.

[pat_k]

39. A message for our so-called "leaders"

. . .The DC Dems are blindly accepting the assumptions that pervade the insular beltway world -- assumptions that are often the opposite of reality. For example: "something Very Bad will happen if we impeach"; false choices (people want minimum wage increase, not impeachment); and "can't win so won't fight." (As is so often the case when they are confronted with a moral imperative, they jump around from one of these standard rationalizations to the other.)

DC Dems have long been addicted to tactical analysis that focuses almost exclusively on the "certain" negative consequences of action. For example, in the current crisis, "opinion makers" and party insiders alternate between assurances that the nation wants Democrats to work with Bush and his toadies in Congress and warnings that the public will blast them if they impeach. The benefits of impeachment, the enormous risks of failing to impeach, and the recent polls (e.g., http://january6th.org/oct2006-newsweek-poll-impeach.html">Newsweek's) that find a majority of Americans want impeachment to be a priority in the new Congress are conspicuously absent.

Here's one way to challenge some of their rationalizations for holding to their self-imposed "impeachment is off limits" edict. I'd like to see this injected into their insular beltway world. We can start by promoting it among ourselves.

I don't want my new minimum wage when the massive power of the American Presidency is in the hands of War Criminals.

I don't want affordable health care if "rule by signing statement" and Bush as unitary authoritarian executive is left unchallenged.

I don't care about breaking the link between law makers and lobbyists while Bush and Cheney wield ever more unconstitutional power to force the wishes of their tiny faction on the rest of us.

I don't care about enacting the 911 commission recommendations until habeas corpus is restored and the men behind nullifying it are removed from power.

As long as you allow Bush and Cheney to abuse their power by picking and choosing the laws they execute or enforce, you will not get my support to pass more laws for them to ignore.

The War Criminals Protection Act of 2006 was a landmark achievement in White House conspiracy to violate our Constitutional rights and commit international crime. Lifting the restrictions on stem cell research imposed by a small faction can wait until that act is struck down and Bush and Cheney are removed from office for leading the conspiracy.

With threats of "mushroom clouds over our cities," Bush and Cheney terrorized the American people into submitting to their criminal war of aggression. I cannot imagine how you think the United States can help to end the conflict and chaos that is spreading inhumanity and destroying lives in the Middle East if you leave governing power in the hands of the men who are responsible for the horrors.

I am one of the majority of sensible Americans http://january6th.org/oct2006-newsweek-poll-impeach.html">who want SENSIBLE priorities. There is nothing partisan or radical about inaugurating a President and Vice President committed to fulfilling their oath to execute our laws BEFORE we worry about passing more laws.

BTW -- you don't even have to WAIT to engage the stakeholders in finding solutions to the critical problems we face as a nation. You and your staffers can fight to remove Bush and Cheney from power and design and pass legislation AT THE SAME TIME. Multitasking is the name of the game. Just make sure Impeachment never takes a back seat to those other tasks.

[Gwerlain]

42. For what?

I cannot believe that after watching the Reprehensible lynch mob go after Big Dog anyone who has any respect for our party would advocate doing the same thing ourselves.

Investigate, impeach, indict, imprison.

[earth mom]

43. Power to the people! It's up to the people to push for Impeachment.

That some want to continue to play politics with the rethugs is absolutely unbelievable!

Either you are FOR the Constitution or you are not! :grr:

FYI:

Impeachment Call Echoes Near Independence Hall

"Background: Both Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), the soon-to-be Speaker of the House of Representatives; and Rep. John Conyers (D-MI), tagged to be the new Chair of the House's Judiciary Committee, are reporting that impeachment is "off the table." They are both seriously mistaken.

The people spoke on Nov. 7th. It is the collective will of the people to hold President Bush and V.P. Cheney accountable for their serial abuses of power. The Republic belongs to the people, not the Wirepullers. (Res Publica Est Res Populi: The Republic is the Property of the People.) It is our sons and daughters who have died in Iraq. It is our money, in the hundreds of billions of dollars, which has been wasted there in a war launched based on a pack of outrageous lies. (5) It is our Constitution that has been ignored, and our rights violated by the widespread and unlawful surveillance program, initiated without legal process and proper U.S. Federal Court oversight, by the Bush-Cheney Gang.

It is important, particularly, for Rep. Pelosi to remember recent history. An arrogant House Speaker, Tom "Bad Check" Foley (D-WA), (1989-95), forgot that he was only a trustee of his high office and not an owner of it. His constituents rebuked him for his hubris. Foley was voted out on the street. Foley's fate in 1995, could be Pelosi's fate in 2008!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2611282

______________________________________________________________________________

Send 500,000 Impeachment Letters to Pelosi by her first day as Speaker Jan 3

"While arguing about whether we should demand impeachment in another thread, someone said there had to be a "groundswell of support" like there was for the impeachment of Nixon and cited this article:
More than 50,000 telegrams poured in on Capitol Hill today, so many, Western Union was swamped. Most of them demanded impeaching Mr. Nixon.
John Chancellor, NBC News on a Special Report on October 20, 1973

We already have more support than that. When John Conyers took Bush his petition demanding he answer questions about the DSM, it had 540,000 singnatures, over ten times as many as wrote about Nixon. I would bet most of those people would write to demand impeachment of Bush, probably more.
The great thing is, now we have someone to focus this demand on who can and possibly will act (in spite of her protests to the contrary): Nancy Pelosi.

She should have a half million signatures waiting for her her first day as Speaker of the House.
I think she and the many of the Democrats want to do this, but to overcome the reluctance of the DC etablishment and big money interests who are afraid their ox will be gored along with Bush & Cheney, she needs constant overwhelming evidence of public DEMAND not just support for impeachment.
Fax or snail mail the letter below or your own variation to:
FAX: [phone]
Nancy Pelosi
2371 Rayburn HOB
Washington, DC 20515
District Office:
450 Golden Gate Ave.
14th Floor
San Francisco, CA 94102
emails are nice, but letters and faxes make a physical pile that form a powerful visual, and that should be Pelosi opening her door and being buried by letters.

more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2697215
________________________________________________________________________________

Impeach Bush: Do it Yourself:

Impeach for Peace, a Minnesota-based impeachment group, has researched a method for impeaching the president using a little known and rarely used part of the Rules of the House of Representatives ("Jefferson’s Manual"). This document actually empowers individual citizens to initiate the impeachment process themselves.

"Jefferson's Manual" is an interpretive guide to parliamentary procedure, and is included (along with the Constitution) in the bound volumes of the Rules of the House of Representatives. It is ratified by each congress (including the current one), and has been updated continuously through the history of our democracy. The section covering impeachment lists the acceptable vehicles for bringing impeachment motions to the floor of the House.

Before the House Judiciary Committee can put together the Articles of Impeachment, someone must initiate the impeachment procedure. Most often, this occurs when members of the House pass a resolution. Another method outlined in the manual, however, is for individual citizens to submit a memorial for impeachment.

After learning this information, Minnesotan and Impeach for Peace member (Jodin Morey) found precedent in an 1826 memorial by Luke Edward Lawless which had been successful in initiating the impeachment of Federal Judge James H. Peck. Impeach for Peace then used this as a template for their "Do-It-Yourself Impeachment." Now any citizen can download the DIY Impeachment Memorial and submit it, making it possible for Americans to do what our representatives have been unwilling to do. The idea is for so many people to submit the Memorial that it cannot be ignored."

more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2662784
________________________________________________________________________________

"Impeaching Bush to Preserve the Constitution
by Elizabeth Holtzman

"The constitution doesn't require the minimum. It requires the maximum.

We can't have a president of the United States who puts himself above the rule of law if we want to continue with this democracy.

That's it. No ifs ands or buts."

more:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2694132

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

45. No. n/t