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"War" should hurt. It should hurt us ALL.

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:14 PM
Original message
"War" should hurt. It should hurt us ALL.
If we are to assume that "war" is a last resort, then why does it seem to be a pre-emptive action these days.

Watching all the Veteran's Day programming reminded me that war should NEVER be entered into unadvisedly.

Since the Viet Nam war unpleasantness, we seem to be immune to it.

We send troops here and there, and life goes on normally at "home".

Individual families suffer the ultimate grief when "their" soldier does not come home alive, but for most people, it's "business as usual".

Are we TOO prosperous to care? Are we too lazy to notice? Is our government too afraid to level with us?

During WWII, everyone "felt" like they were contributing, even if their scrap metal drives never actually "made" a battleship or their old tires were turned into jeep tires. They held back their own desires for goods, in exchange for the "good of the soldiers" and for the war effort.

The "volunteer" military is not as "volunteer" as they tell us. There is a permanent underclass in America, and we all know that the bulk of the "military force" relies heavily on them. Of course , every time someone mentions this, they are immediately slapped down with statistics of how educated our military is. To some extent that is true, but the grunts on the ground (the non-lifers) are most likely to be people from dead-end towns, who had dead-end jobs, and who took the carrot.

The stick has a very pointy end, and the carrot is not all that tasty.

If war was "always" declared by congress ( not the president) after a lengthy debate, and if it came attached with price tag, the people would decide whether or not a "war" was worth it.

Most people have no direct connection to "the war" (or ANY war). their lives continue as before:
trips to the gym
trips to the mall courtesy of Visa & Master Card
a bigger car
a bigger house
drive through food
American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, Deal or No Deal..

The media lets them off the hook, the congress keeps pushing the bills for the war under the rug..

If they do not happen to have a soldier in the thick of it, they never even have to "know" it's going on.

At least during the Viet Nam war unpleasantness, the draft brought the whole issue front and center. Sure, some rich kids weaseled out (don't they always?), but the draft focused attention of the war like a laser.

the draft also had a "civilizing" effect on the troops. The "volunteer" aspect of the military these days, attracts a thinner slice of life. the draft "caught" guys who were artists, musicians, poets, writers, farmers, along with the ones who were "into" ass-kicking.

The fact that there were people of ALL backgrounds and interests, had to have had an effect on the overall behavior of the soldiers. Were there renegade soldiers? Of course. BUT the make up of the companies and units had a diversity that seems to be lacking these days.

If ALL parents had to worry about THEIR child being grabbed up for a corporate hissyfit-war, they might just start paying attention.

Last week's election had an element of "attention to war" about it..

Let's hope it lingers..and that our newly-minted congress pays their share of attention.



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TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. May I be the first to recommend?
Spot on, SoCalDem!

appreciatively,
Bright
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Democrats_win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. America can't move forward until this war ends.
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. It NEVER was and is not NOW a "war."
What we see today are the results of a "pre-emptive" INVASION and OCCUPATION that has become a HOLOCAUST.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. That was the Neocon / Rumsfeld revolution was all about

War to them was to become a push button affair. You don't really need troops, all you need was kids with video screens and smart bombs.

Reminds me of some Startrek episode or other... computers simulating attacks and people shuffling off to the descintegrator... but I digress.

Anyway, rummy's new rapid deployment full armour "blitzkrieg" war machine was never designed for an urban warfare house to house street by street occupation. I think it really surprised him (which shows how ignorant he is of history).
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yep.. and "outsourcing" to rent-a-soldiers
:puke:
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yep. It's why I think Universal National Service is sorely needed.
When I examine the thinking behind the Constitution and the hopes the Founders had (besides escaping British justice) for this nation, I find the Second Amendment and Congress' sole power to declare war and 2-year limits on military funding to be persuasive - waging war MUST be both with popular will and popular participation! Nothing else can do.

Many of us have been seduced. The seductions of the "ownership society" are stong - hire others to do the dirty work. The lowest compensated people in the work force (felons, ex-felons, migrants) cannot vote. (Voting is for the 'owners.')

"Above all, Vietnam was a war that asked everything of a few and nothing of most in America." — Myra MacPherson (1984)

That's the unlearned lesson of Viet Nam. That's why we'll repeat the error.

We assuage our guilt by lamenting the loss of some of our best and brightest - Lt. Perez's death cut me deeply. Such an amazing, conscientious, wholesome, and outright marvelous young woman!

Yet we don't step up to the plate ... either to shed our blood in the streets to halt this atrociity or to stand next to those bearing the greatest burden by far. That's abysmal.


I was drafted to Viet Nam. The agony of that choice to go - rather than commute to Canada, only across the river - was settled with a single thought: who'd go in my place? It has been the salvation of my peace of mind for these many years since. How can we live with the idea that we're letting others die in service to ... our sloth?

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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I often wonder who went in place of Bush..Did he survive?
was Bush's number even called?? Did he disgrace himself for nothing?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I vaguely recall that 5-8 guys from Midland died ...
... possibly one of whom could've been been Smirk's substitute. We looked that up a couple of years ago on DU, I think.

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Sapere aude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
8. War to us is like the Roman Circus. The leaders of the Roman Empire
are like todays war mongers. The people at home are the audience at the Colosseum. The gladiators or todays soldiers and innocent civilians.

War is circus for the masses while the leaders take the spoils. We want to win at all costs even though those costs are more lives given up. If we believed in life we would stop the war now and spare all the lives we can. No more circus.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. I'm glad that we now at least have ONE elected Representative
who has a child serving in Iraq. I believe Webb is the only one. That is a disgrace in and of itself.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I LOVE your dancers :)
very cute..

I think there is one other senator whos son is active duty (don;t know if he's in Iraq)..

Tim Johnson?

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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I love your elephant-RINO-donkey progression too.
I don't know, there may be one or two others. Disgracefully few though. In WWII, even the sons of the most powerful couldn't get out of serving in combat. Kennedys, Bushes, and Roosevelts all served. It's disgusting that they can now get away with these major decisions about war and peace without having any kind of a personal stake in it.

I'd be in favor of a universal draft if I could guarantee that it would get Jenna and Babs out patrolling the streets of Baghdad.
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electron_blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. I agree - by and large, no real sacrifices going on in the U.S., but I will never support a draft
2 wrongs don't make a right.

I was never for this war at any stage and I'll be damned if I recommend sending anyone into the military against their will. Enough, enough, enough.

The Vietnam War had a draft and it did not end quickly. The two do not go hand in hand. It is already an outrage that the National Guard is serving so much time there, with so many casualties. People are already being sent to IRaq in droves against their will. JEnna and Barbara are not going and should there be a draft, it will not even be an issue that they are not going.

All raising the draft issue repeatedly does, imo, is get people used to the idea of there being a draft.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-13-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Exactly.. Without a draft, we "should" not have any wars
BUT if there ever was a REAL reason for a war, you know they would institute a draft..and pronto.

The whole "volunteer" thing is just a convenient cover for the corporate muscle to flex whenever they want to.
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