the bastards on NBC are saying that there have only been hundreds of amputees

[stellanoir]

When there have been nearly 3000 deaths and tens of thousands of amputees (if they aren't lowballed.)

Pathetic really.

[blm]

1. Didn't we hear earlier this year about the high rate of brain injuries and that

the death toll would be much higher but for the newer medical techniques available to keep the seriously injured alive?

If this was Vietnam era medicine, the death toll would be more like 15-20,000 at this point.

[Disorientedx3]

4. defining injury

the VA is telling us (care providers) that Traumatic Brain Injury is "THE defining injury" of this conflict and has issued a basic training binder an inch thick on TBI and our policies re: TBI

[blm]

5. Yes - and yet the media is nowehere to be seen on this crucial aspect of the war.

Thanks for the reminder. I knew I heard it was significant, and then there was no followup in the corporate media.

[11 Bravo]

8. Welcome to DU, Disorientedx3!

:toast:

[leftchick]

11. I have a good friend working in a VA hospital

and she has confirmed what you are saying. It is beyond tragic. One person who had brain damage and was blind was a reservist and his benefits were limited!!! WTF????

:(

[bigwillq]

19. Hi!

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[stellanoir]

6. Yeah. To say nothing of how the kevlar vests (when provided) protect

service people from injuries to their internal organs.

so they live despite heinous injuries.

[blm]

10. This a great thread, stellanoir - it really should hit home that it's not about the

politics of winning - it's about how to stop the killing and the lying that is getting them killed and injured.

[Warpy]

2. They're right, of course, but it's hundreds of hundreds

They're counting on the fact that the booboisie is math illiterate.

[sarge43]

3. So, did the bastards say from where these stats came?

VA, DoD, they've been at the landing of every air-evca?

[nickyt]

7. A quick Google gives this from The Boston Globe, Dec. 2004:

US troops injured in Iraq have required limb amputations at twice the rate of past wars, and as many as 20 percent have suffered head and neck injuries that may require a lifetime of care, according to new data giving the clearest picture yet of the severity of battlefield wounds.

snip

Much attention has focused on the 1,000-plus soldiers killed in Iraq, but the Pentagon has released little information on the 9,765 soldiers injured as of this week.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2004/12/09/amputation_rate_for_us_troops_twice_that_of_past_wars/

[stellanoir]

9. I'm sorry I was angry

I have no gripe with those illegitamately born.

As most of us are born of love.

I was just outrageously irked that these handsomely paid by war profiteers who are entirely disingenuous, get to misrepresent the facts night after night. Sheesh

[RamboLiberal]

12. As of September it was 725

As of Sept. 30, war amputees from Iraq and Afghanistan numbered 725, according to Walter Reed Army Medical Center, which also has a military amputee center. Because so many of them are young -- often under 25 -- the military's aim is to treat them as the highly conditioned, athletic men and women they were prior to being injured. It is the reason Paralympic gold medalist Casey Tibbs is working as a peer-to-peer counselor with amputees at C5.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/08/MNG45M7CHT1.DTL&type=health

On edit the bigger story is the brain injuries. Nearly 30% of injured.

In World War II, 30 percent of service members injured in combat died. Today only 3 percent of soldiers who are injured die, according to a report by the Government Accountability Office, the investigative arm of Congress.

They are the walking wounded, said Tom Poulter, the national commander of the Military Order of the Purple Heart.

"In Vietnam, we wore a flak vest -- now they have much better body armor," he said. "In Vietnam, the most common occurrence was to die from a sunken chest. Today, what you have is brain injuries, a lot of people getting their arms and legs blown off."

Nearly 30 percent of those who are injured suffer brain injuries, according to Department of Veterans Affairs statistics provided by Veterans for America. About 6 percent are amputees.

http://www.freenewmexican.com/news/52003.html

According to Iraq Coalition Casualties which is site I trust combat wounded stands at around 21,500 currently. 6% would put amputees a bit over 1,000.

[nodular]

13. 4100 amputees

http://iamputees.blogspot.com/

"Friday, November 10, 2006
20% result in amputation

Dr Wandel, who has treated hundreds of wounded American
soldiers, said the amputation rate in the Iraq conflict is
just 20 per cent compared to 76 per cent during the Vietnam
War, translating into thousands of saved limbs. -from this
article

According to the Pentagon, 20,687 in the US military have been
wounded in Iraq as of October 6, with 9352 injured too
seriously to quickly return to duty."


If my understanding of this post is correct and it is
accurate, that means there have been approximately 4100
amputees as a result of the Iraq conflict.

[RamboLiberal]

14. Amputees would be in the 9352 group

Which would put it at 1800. But as I posted another site claims it's about 6%.

[nodular]

16. Yeah,

I give up. Each source seems to have different numbers.

[RamboLiberal]

17. According to DOD

As of May 3rd, 2006 there were 674 amputations. http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22452.pdf so it's probably a few hundred higher now.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RS22452.pdf

I don't think they could fudge the numbers with guys like Murtha visiting Walter Reed and with veterans organization like the one Paul Rieckoff(sp) runs.

Here's another site with stats on injuries as of June of this year.

http://www.servingthosewhoserve.com/site/c.nlI5IiNXJuE/b.1483179/k.35E6/Statistics.htm

On edit here's what NBC reported - which is wrong.

So far, 508 U.S. servicemen and women have returned from this nation's dual wars having lost at least one limb since it is lower than DOD numbers as of June 2006. While the numbers are grim, Ward 57 is not. In fact, quite the opposite.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15703641/

[nodular]

26. heavy story on Ward 57

Thanks.

[stellanoir]

15. all I know in my heart and soul is

these numbers are being low balled.

How many casualties can we have confirmed from Desert Storm syndrome. . .?

Or agent orange?

Yikes, it's frightening.

These assholes.

[blm]

28. Here's one small bright spot - Senate just passed Kerry's amendment for

immediate additional funding for combat vets suffering from mental health concerns. They are almost always the unrecognized casualties.



The Senate passed Senator John Kerry’s amendment today which provides $18 million in critical funding to the nation’s Veteran’s Administration (VA) Centers.

Veteran Centers provide readjustment counseling and outreach services to any veteran who has served in a combat zone. Kerry’s additional funding will cut waiting lists and ensure that facilities are not forced to limit services as they respond to an increased workload caused by soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

Approximately one-third of the veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan seek help for mental health concerns from the VA. According to published reports, the number of returning veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan who have sought help for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) services and readjustment concerns has doubled over the past year. This increased caseload has forced many centers to limit services or establish waiting lists for needed services. The National Military Family Association and the Vietnam Veterans of America support the amendment, which is included in the Senate FY 2007 Military Construction, Veterans Affairs, and Related Agencies Appropriations bill, and is co-sponsored by Senators Kennedy (Mass.), Akaka (Hawaii), Boxer (Calif.) and Jeffords (Vt.).

Senator John Kerry’s floor statement is below:

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, it is our obligation to do everything possible to ensure that veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan can make the transition home successfully.

“Welcome home” must be more than something we say to our veterans. It must be measured in actions taken not just words spoken.

Today, I am offering an amendment to increase funding for the VA Vet Centers to provide critically-needed services to our returning veterans.

The VA Vet Centers provide readjustment counseling and outreach services to all veterans who served in any combat zone. Our veterans earned these benefits through their service to country, and we must fulfill the nation’s commitment to them by providing the highest quality services possible. Unfortunately, a recent report reveals that VA Vet Centers need additional funding in order to provide the trained professionals necessary to offer quality mental health services.

The Vet Center program was established to assist Vietnam-era veterans who were experiencing readjustment problems. In 1991, Congress extended the eligibility to veterans who served during other periods of armed hostilities after the Vietnam era. The goal of the Centers is to provide a broad range of counseling, outreach and referral services to help veterans successfully readjust to civilian life. Services include individual counseling, group counseling, marital and family counseling, bereavement counseling, medical referrals, assistance in applying for VA benefits, and employment counseling.

A recent report by the House Veterans Affairs Committee Democratic staff found that in nine months, between October 2005 and June 2006, the number of returning veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan who turned to Vet Centers for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) services doubled. The increased demand for services is beginning to affect access to quality care. In fact, one in four Vet Centers surveyed has been forced to limit services or establish waiting lists for critically needed services. After serving this nation and fighting for our country, our veterans should not have to fight for critical adjustment services.

In November of 2004, VA Secretary Nicholson approved a mental health strategic plan, acknowledging gaps in mental health services due to the surge in demand from veterans of combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. Congress provided approximately $100 million to fund the VA Mental Health Strategic plan. However, a recent GAO report shows that the VA has diverted or failed to utilize money that was intended for staffing at Vet Centers and has not provided a full accounting of what has happened to the funding.

The GAO is expected to issue a full report on these funding gaps later this year, but the preliminary results indicate a possible misuse of mental health dollars.

One-third of the veterans coming home from Iraq and Afghanistan come to the VA with mental health concerns. We have seen the cases of PTSD rise sharply along with the need for readjustment care when veterans return home. It is imperative that our Vet Centers have enough trained professionals to offer quality mental health services. There are 207 Vet Centers across the country. They are currently unable to deal with the increasing demand for mental health services. Each of these centers needs additional funding to hire sufficient staff to deal with the recent influx of patients.

John Rowan, National President of Vietnam Veterans of America, recently said, “The resources are not there in the VA Vet Centers.” Mr. Rowan went on to say that, “Not only is the mental health and well-being of veterans being placed at risk, the Vet Centers themselves are at risk. Because of significantly increased work loads, some centers have introduced waiting lists. Accommodating the ever-increasing demand for readjustment counseling is taking a heavy toll on already overworked staff.” We need to do more to help our veterans.

My amendment would provide $18 million to hire additional mental health staff at VA Vet Centers. This amount was recommended by the Vietnam Veterans of America to allow the VA to hire the appropriate staff needed to deal with the influx of veterans who need help. The Vietnam Veterans of America and the National Military Family Association support my amendment.

Our soldiers have sacrificed greatly for their country, and we owe them the best care when they return. Many wounds of war are not visible, which makes it that much more important that Vet Centers have all the resources they need to serve those veterans who are suffering in any way. I ask all my colleagues to support this amendment to provide appropriate funding to staff our Vet Centers.

Thank you.

[Cleita]

18. Well, I guess that would make the reporter Al Franken interviewed

this morning a liar. Sorry, I didn't get his name cause I was cleaning my house at the time. But this guy got his hand blown off in a Humvee that was bombed while he was in Iraq. He was eventually taken to Walter Reed Hospital in D. C. where many of the amputees end up. The way Al and he were talking, it sounded like there were many more amputees than that.

[RamboLiberal]

20. That would be Time Mag reporter Michael Weisskopf

http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/0805078606.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_OU01_SCLZZZZZZZ_V38841802_.jpg

From Amazon.com

From Publishers Weekly
Reporter Weisskopf, at 58, was accompanying a patrol in Baghdad in 2003 when he picked up a grenade that flew into his Humvee. This book relates the consequences, beginning with a detailed account of a medic's emergency treatment of Weisskopf's shattered hand, his speedy transport to an aid station, helicopter flight to a front-line hospital, flight to the trauma center in Germany and, finally, to amputee Ward 57 of Washington's Walter Reed Hospital. Readers quickly learn that amputees make up 3% of Iraq's wounded—twice that of previous wars—thanks to the Kevlar helmets and sturdy body armor that protect all but the soldier's limbs from otherwise fatal explosions. Besides recounting his own successful recovery from the trauma of losing a hand, Weisskopf adds stories of three American soldiers who also endured months of torment before adjusting to new lives, though they were not necessarily typical. Other patients mentioned in passing do very badly. Pain is universal; many amputees suffer numerous operations and take narcotics for years. Modern prostheses are ingenious but heavy and difficult to use. Readers with a low tolerance for inspirational stories will still find plenty of technical and medical details of one tragic, little-publicized consequence of the Iraq war. (Oct. 3)
Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

From Booklist
Prizewinning Time reporter Weisskopf went to Iraq embedded with the First Armored Division. One day he picked up a strange object from the bottom of his vehicle--and woke up with his right hand missing. His next journey was to Ward 57, the amputee ward, of Walter Reed Hospital. He skillfully depicts his own experiences and those of his wardmates, making it clear that even today amputation entails a particularly acute form of post--traumatic stress disorder, to say nothing of the physical pain involved, and having to learn all over again to use the muscles of more than the affected limb. Nor, even in an era when each casualty can be given painstaking care, is Walter Reed, the army's flagship hospital, free of red tape and personnel who--and this is putting it delicately--lack a bedside manner. This thoroughly distinguished addition to the literature on the Iraq War adds further distinction to Weisskopf's career, which he plans to continue to the best of his remaining abilities. Roland Green
Copyright © American Library Association. All rights reserved

[RamboLiberal]

21. This is from Time Mag article end of September

When they printed excerpt of Weisskopf's book and article of Walter Reed Ward 57.

It is the signature wound of the Iraq war: limb loss. The potency of insurgent bombs and the proficiency of U.S. lifesavers have produced this result. Of the 20,322 Americans wounded in action, 436 have been amputees--more than 2%, a figure higher than in every war of the previous century except Vietnam, for which there were no good statistics. In his book, Michael Weisskopf chronicles the recoveries of three amputees he met at Walter Reed.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1538621,00.html

Wish someone would give us correct figures.

[Bigmack]

22. I saw that piece...

.. and I was really impressed with all the healthy-looking, upbeat, young people with amputations and artificial limbs.

I smell a Ptomkin village. I think we saw the ward filled with the "good" patients.

Where's the wards full of brain-injured vets?

Where's the guys with the terrible facial injuries?

How about the bitter amputees fighting the program?

I know they are there.

This story was more "feel good about sending people into a meaningless, meatgrinder of a war".

[NotGivingUp]

23. there is NO sense in expecting the TRUTH to come out of the

propaganda box. that is what it is and nothing more. it's utterly pitiful. in order to have a democracy we must take back our media.

[donheld]

24. It is hundreds

Hundreds a week, month,???

[Postman]

25. What do you expect from General Electric, the truth?..

There's money to be made. They couldn't give a rat's ass about amputees.

As far as journalistic integrity at NBC? There is none.

[jollyreaper2112]

27. how many amputees are there?

I thought the number seemed very low. As I understand it, the combat intensity in this war is very high. The types of wounds the soldiers recieve are as bad as anything from Vietnam. What's a lot lower is the actual number of combat deaths due to our superb medics and trauma surgeons. A lot of people are living through wounds that would have killed them in earlier wars. The cranial sheering from the explosions would not have been as much of an issue in previous wars because the victim would have died from other causes, sort of like how having an ounce of lead sitting in your gut isn't healthy but how it got there is what you really need to be concerned about. Also, with the improved body armor, serious wounds to the torso are less likely, though that does little to protect limbs.

As for the KIA to WIA ratios, I think the historic ratios went something like this (liable to be wrong) 1:3 in WWII, 1:6 in Vietnam, 1:15 or 1:20 in the current war. And that's significant because the media only reports the KIA's. You hear about one dead soldier at a checkpoint, there's half a platoon of wounded you didn't hear about. And attacks that don't result in KIA's never even make the news.

So what are the official numbers at this point and what do resonable sources feel the accurate count is at?