How to Solve the Bahgdad Puzzel with Class, Pride, Success, etc, for all Parties....

[opihimoimoi]

The World watches as we ponder the Great Escape from the M.E.

3.9 years after we invade we still have not seen much progress. BushCo still in Command and is not Listening to good council...or too stubborn in his approach.

Enter Dems who now have some degree of Oversight.

The Democratic Party has many who are Pragmatic, Realistic, and Sane...Benevolent too.

Read Sun Tzu #9....A good Leader is Wise, Benevolent, Sincere, Courageous, and Strict.

Bush and the GOP have 2 at best.

The ART of PEACE....This is what our DEMs must look to as a possible answer to the Quagmire Bush initiated.

Peace is where the answer lies....not instruments of WAR but Models of PEACE

How does one implement Peace in the middle of a war zone?

Its been done before....

Create Fire Free Zones and build a system for the Iraqis to live, work, learn, play, in...not for our peeps but their peeps. We are there for Security and for teaching, inspiring, bonding...

We can do this in various parts of Iraq where conditions dictate/suggest. Imagine a fire free Zone where a select few will learn all aspects of CONSTRUCTION...from learning to make concrete, tiles, etc...the Materials to build not modest homes/buildings, but the cutting edge. Let the Iraqis see and feel the richness of what the World offers. When they visit home, they will tell their peeps of this safe zone, where much HAPPINESS resides.. Most likely they will not want to leave.

In addition, they learn the latest in GROWING FOOD...many kinds of fruits, veggies, animals conducive to their tastes/culture.

And so forth...We can do it for cheap too. Some of our SOF guys earn 150 to 200K a year.

How much would it take to bring teams of designers, architects, engineers, construction equipment operators, etc??? Staggeringly less than present expenditures...

In Time, these Zones would GROW...with ever increasing perimeters...and more Zones would be added until the whole Nation

I will continue later

[ClassWarrior]

1. Sun Tsu was a wise man.

:hi: opi...

NGU.

[opihimoimoi]

3. For the Art of war he was.....our peeps would do well to ponder his many observations

[Bucky]

2. Actually Winston Churchill once devised an exit strategy from Iraq (posted here)

I posted this letter from Winnie yesterday, wherein he explained how he was gonna get Britain out of Iraq. It got little response response, but it's a gem of a historical parallel.

[opihimoimoi]

4. Interesting he mentions the Iraqis in this context..". Unless they beg

us to stay...we should leave"

In the case I described above...the conditions would look so enticing for Stability, Growth, Peace, Safety, and Enrichment,,,they would ask us to stay and would like to learn more in surviving this horrid world Bush has left us...

It would take a cadre of Construction Peeps, teachers, etc so we trainthem in Building New and Better buildings...and that those we teach...become teachers themselves as this models of Cities hopefull grows to success

Peace is where the SOLUTIONS are....not WAR....

[SoCalDem]

5. um.. the Iraqi people have been building and rebuilding for THOUSANDS of years

they just need the materials and tools, and for us to LEAVE..

On Day ONE we should have put up posters inviting all men from 14-60 to show up and get HIRED to rebuild their country.. pay them each $1K a month, give them concrete, tools, plywood etc, and they would have been too rich and too tired to hate us:)

Then we should have flooded the place with air conditioners, radios, tvs , dvd players etc./

and the "would-be insurgents" would have had no sway with them..

Why didn;t we do that?

Halliburton/KBR/BECHTEL etc.

[opihimoimoi]

6. Exactly the plan...we teach them to teach others....flood the place with AC

We eat their food, we sing with them, and we laugh with them too. Such is the ways of Peace...

[Kelly Rupert]

10. Baghdad is a modern city. They don't need to learn about "concrete."

I'm pretty sure they've already got construction figured out.

[mesobob]

7. That "fire free zone" seems to be the trick.

If we could convince people (all people, all sides) to stop shooting at each other, free fire zones become moot since we'll have the solution to all war.

Heck, we cant even get a free fire zone in the Washington DC (or any American City). Guns are banned there and the place is virtual police state of "security", yet it is still crime ridden and people are shot daily.

No I don't think declaring a "a no shooting zone" will convince either our forces, or those opposing them to actually stop shooting. The only solution is to get the hell out.

[opihimoimoi]

8. The zones will be monitored by joint forces...only authorized peeps living working there

until such time Peace arrives in a year or two.

We should be looking for Positive examples in problem solving...If we get out now, we will be viewed as losers..if we stay the course...we still be losers in the long term....

Only one way out, promote and build Peace. Get Trump in there for Gods Sake...A Trump Hotel for the Iraqis will be the Model we want...

[mesobob]

11. Monitoring?

And what happens if someone does start shooting? What will the monitors do? take pictures and tell their mothers?

Well they could stand by and do nothing. Or they could shoot back. Either way, the free fire zone just went out the window.


Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are saying and it can work in a small, very small area..like a 10x20 room.

We cant even keep prisons and schools fire free zones and those are arguably pretty small areas.

The only way to enforce a fire free zone the size of a city or town would be an extremely iron hand and subject the unfortunate citizens to intrusions well beyond that we even do of prisoners in a maximum security prison. The measures needed to enforce a free fire zone would proably include draconian means that we dare not comtemplate.

No, as long as the military is there, it will do what all militarys do. Shoot people and break things.

[opihimoimoi]

13. Think of ways to make it work...its too easy to shoot down things but far

more difficult to SOLVE

Peace is a POSITIVE thing...Impossible...BS. Not Impossible...We have to look for the solutions and ways to implement..

We should be courageous in our VISION...

Else we dwell on the NEGATIVE as the BushCo has done...

[mesobob]

14. Im not that smart. - I wish I were

I really really wish I knew of a way to make people stop killing each other and going to war.

I wish I knew of a way to make a region (any where, not just Iraq) a peaceful place with no violence.

If I could, I would be running around the world helping to implementing it.

If I did, I do it in Iraq, then come to America and do it in all our major cities, then back to the rest of the world.

[opihimoimoi]

17. Ya got it right...Its not impossible if we work at it....

It takes commitment/ resolve/ideas/and a coalition...

[Kelly Rupert]

9. The Worst Idea Ever: A Play In Three Acts

Sgt. America: "Okay, Hajis, listen up! From here to there is a fire-free zone. You can't fight here. You may work and play. We'll teach you how to grow food and build concrete. You'll see the richness of the world here!"

Iraqi A: "Dude, Concrete? Tiles? What the f*ck do you think all these buildings are made out of?"

Iraqi B: "Growing food? I run an internet cafe. Why the hell would I want to learn to grow carrots? Can't I just go buy them at the market?"

Iraqi C: "Fire...free...zone? What the hell? You think those Shi'a madmen are going to just decide not to kill my family because you asked them not to?"

Iraqi B: "Shi'a madmen? Excuse me? My brother was killed by one of you Sunni terrorist bombers! You're tearing us apart and you blame me?"

Iraqi C: *shoots Iraqi B*

--------------------------

Act II: Sadr City.

Iraqi D: "Did you hear about the new fire-free zone?"
Iraqi E: "Is that where we can learn about concrete and vegetables?"
Iraqi D: "Damned if I know. There was a gunfight. 15 dead, 30 wounded. The Americans eventually opened fire on the crowd to disperse them."
Iraqi E: "Huh. Ironic. Aw, shit, power's out again."
Iraqi D: "Dammit. Well, might as well close up shop. Don't think anyone's buying a TV today."
----------------------------

Act III: Fire-Free Zone.

Sgt. America: "Okay, seriously. Let's try again. This is a fire-free zone. Don't kill each other here. We have CONCRETE and VEGETABLES and ANIMALS CONDUCIVE TO YOUR TASTES AND CULTURE."

Iraqi A: "So this is a market?"

Sgt. America: "No, it's a fire-free zone of culture and learning."

Iraqi A: "So, a market then."

*Sunni suicide bomber ignites self*

----

THE END

[opihimoimoi]

12. It can and will work if we try....what better Idea do you have???

Fire free zones will not have any weapons except by the Joint forces...no guns allowed...only a few Iraqi Families living, learning Peace through Building, not destroying..

No bombs no weapons in the zone...we do have a Green Zone in Bahgdad where conditions exist as described...only we make those zones outside of the city far away from motar attack...

If we look for success...we will find it...if we look for failure....look at Bush and his 3 year+ plan....

Growing food is not the same anymore...its gone high tech

So has construction methods...You're thinking of building their buildings/homes in the OLD WAY...

I am thinking new and better....Its only Models for the Peeps there to copy elsewhere.

If we don't offer Positivity...then all is lost...

[mesobob]

16. We cant even do that in our schools

" Fire free zones will not have any weapons except by the Joint forces...no guns allowed...o"

How the hell are you going to enforce on a city?

And if someone does get a weapon. What then? Ask them nicely to hand it over and if they don't shoot them? That pretty much takes us to where we are now.

[opihimoimoi]

18. It would be a new city, a model...only a few thousand let in there after thorough screening....

squeeky clean...only the guards to make sure it stays that way....

A perimeter would be established to ensure no terrorists comes in....3 layers oughta do it...Hopefully it works...The results would be Positive....a place where no war exists....only sharing, learning, bonding....a Peace Zone of sorts...

This would be a POSITIVE step...something much better than the Negative Status Quo...If we fail, at least we can say we TRIED...

Butter better than guns....

[WinkyDink]

15. Iraq is the birthplace of history. I think they know about agriculture.

I think they know about domesticated animals.

I think their fellow Arabs can work with them in construction, etc.(cf. Dubai) (TRUMP?! OMG.).

They want us OUT. The Western forces must LEAVE. PERIOD.

These are not ignorant CHILDREN who must be WATCHED and EDUCATED and CONDESCENDED to with "See Spot Run" aphorisms.

[opihimoimoi]

19. Positivity is better than negative. At least we should try to implement Peace through

efforts.

We can leave when they ask us...in the mean time we should really be making a Peace Zone...

Animals/crops/fruits/poutry, etc found there....can be improved...this what we do all the time

We can share our new techniques and strains of crops/etc to bring them up to speed.

Sure they got concrete/bricks/tiles/etc....we got the newest methods to produce implement...and we can share these too

Sharing is not condenscending....its benevolent.

[Kelly Rupert]

27. What *exactly* do they lack that we could give them?

Give specifics. I mean, it doesn't even make sense. They have the Internet. They have television. They have universities. It's not like there's any technology that nobody there's heard of. Any advances that are not in common use are only ignored because they lack the current technological and industrial base, not because they lack the theory. With 25%-50% unemployment, the problem isn't that they don't know what to do. It's that there's nobody hiring them to do it.

[Greyhound]

20. I admire your intent, but it is a good thing that there are not many (any?)

Iraqis on this board.

The fertile crescent, the cradle of civilization, does this ring any bells? I can find humor in the naivete of your post, but they might well be offended at the implication that those poor ignorant savages are just not aware of the cornucopia of western civilization.

How about this as an alternative, Now that we have royally screwed up the whole region, and the former nation of Iraq is coming apart at the seams, from what I've read the consensus seems to be that it is headed toward becoming three states. Let's just partition it and get out, they know how to do the rest and it is up to them anyway. The idiot squatter has ensured that we will come away from this clustrphuk with even fewer friends than we had going in and he has made the situation worse in every possible respect, so the best thing we can do now it to say we're sorry and get the hell out.

[opihimoimoi]

22. and why is Peace naive? Yes, I am well aware of their History

and also their present situation...does it mean we cannot share our GOOD THINGS with them? So far we are only trying to impose our will for whatever reason...most likely their oil/gas. Instead of using Force...why the hell not BUTTER

a Peace Zone is a Positive effort...even if we fail, we can say we tried...and at a much cheaper expenditure..

The Positive Approach is way better than the present Negative one used by Bush.

[Greyhound]

24. Peace is not naive, the idea that Iraqis need to be taught how to

plant and build is what's so funny since they were building cities when most of our ancestors were still building fires at the mouth of the cave to try to keep the weather out.

The peace, of fire free, zones cannot be created in the current environment, at least not by us as we are almost universally hated now.

[Kelly Rupert]

28. What good things are you talking about?

THEY ARE A MODERN NATION. THERE IS NOTHING THEY DO NOT KNOW ABOUT.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. Bush's "VISION" for Iraq is to steal all their oil and kill all the Iraqis

he can whack in the process. Two words dominate BushCo's evil thinking when dreaming of The GawdPoppy's "New World Order," RE how Iraq fits in to the grand plan...Lebensraum and Untermensch.

Nazi plunderers are alive and well in Bushland!

[opihimoimoi]

23. Not all Nazis were bad....Claus Von Stauffenberg comes to mind

But re The BushCo...the mentality is very similar...

[Hubert Flottz]

26. Claus Von Stauffenberg wasn't in the freeperized part of the...

Nazi party. One of the few and the proud that wasn't.

The freepers all heard that the Nzais wuz really hung and they thought their little primate peckers would grow if they joined up. They'll do anything to impress their sisters!

[opihimoimoi]

33. Hubert my man,,,,,you are the BEST...

LOL.....sic Willy on them JWs for me...tree the buggers...

[donsu]

25. what makes you think the Iraqis don't know how to grow food?

they have been eating their own grown food for centuries

[opihimoimoi]

29. Yes, I am aware they been growing food since the change over from

hunter gather to that of a Society that grows most of its food.

But Agricultual advances are constantly evolving. Our own USDA and Commerce Depts give out grants every years for the purpose of learning new techniques and systems...

New stains of rice/wheat/corn/potatos/etc are constantly becoming available to our society. The price to share our findings is so low compared to our current expenditures in pursuing a military solution....that it is feasible in my mind...

Same goes for construction and the materials/system/tools required...Much advancement has occured in the past 5 to 10 years...from what I see, the Iraqis could use some Info needed to produce buildings of high quality...quicker and cheaper too. The Construction Industry is another place where we could share info in how to make better. cheaper, safer, etc....This is Positive...way better than Negative.

They don't know everything....we don't know everything....but we can learn together, share with each other. sing, dance, eat together so that we advance in PEACE together...

Think Positive/Peace....get P/P

Think Neg....get Neg.

[Kelly Rupert]

30. So you're suggesting the problem with Iraq is

insufficently efficient skyscraper construction? Or just negative thinking?

Because I'm pretty sure a bigger problem is a thousand years of ethnic divisions, warfare, and hatred, manifesting themselves as a civil war since we brought a power vacuum.

[opihimoimoi]

31. Non existant Models of Peace is the Prob...We have tried WAR and it hasn't worked

If we had put the monies we spent for War into Peace efforts...the Hate Level would not be Stratospheric

Nothing was said of sky scrapers...just quality buildings that are energy efficent, comfortable, safe, and user friendly...

No one said Building Peace was gonna be easy....the obstacles are the mind sets of Negativity....

[Kelly Rupert]

32. They already have buildings. What they need is

for the bombings and kidnappings and gunbattles to stop. What you suggest is like trying to cure cancer by buying the patient a new baseball cap and telling him to stop being so negative.

[opihimoimoi]

34. If we build the Models far from the battles and we invite Iraqis to work/live/learn

it becomes a beacon of Peace....something POSITIVE...they will come and go as they please...through a screened system to prevent sabatage/suicide shit.

As these Models grow and multiply...them gun battles mentioned will lessen...the people will see the benevolence of the program, the positive effects/ and the peaceful results....Its a start...not meant to cure all ills in a few weeks...

At the very least, we could say we tried Peace...if it fails ....it fails....

But think of the Fruits that may arise...Everyone is a winner....Now that is a GOAL worthy of an Attempt at the very Least...